http://www.carm.org/dictionary/dic_c-d.htm#Consubstatiation
* transubstantiation: "The theory accepted by Catholicism, that in
the Lord's Supper, the elements are transformed into the actual
body and blood of Jesus. However, there is no perceptible or
measurable change in the elem
> From: Nick Arnett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > God certainly was clever to invent evolution.
> > >
> >
> > Hmm... I think it is fascinating how evolution has created God.
>
> Ah! They're co-conspirators!
Or at least co-dependents...
- jmh
_
> From: Deborah Harrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> AFAIK, nearly all other Protestant denominations focus
> on Communion more "as remembrance of me [Jesus],"
> rather than any actual change or spiritual presence in
> the bread and wine (or, as in one church I attended
> with a friend, some type
> Nick wrote:
> >You (plural) don't believe that Jesus is fully human?
>
Reggie Bautista wrote:
>
> To further muddy matters, some Catholics
> use the term "Christian" as short-hand
> for "Fundamentalist Christian."
I've only heard that from the other
direction, as in "I'm not Catholic,
I'm Chr
In a message dated 6/25/2003 1:05:34 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> ISHIRTA?
>
> Doug
I'm Sorry I'll Read That Again, BBC radio programme, where John Cleese got
his start performing, and Eric Idle was a writer.
Is this the launch that faced a thousand ships?
The
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 6/23/2003 9:45:25 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Nick Arnett wrote:
>
> God certainly was clever to invent evolution.
>
Hmm... I think it is fascinating how evolution has created God.
8^)
Doug
Hmmm.. 8^) instead
Matt Grimaldi wrote:
>
> > On Behalf Of Robert Seeberger:
> >
> > > The meme that claims the Bible as the only
> > > source of christian truth is a protestant myth
> > > that totally ignores the truth of the Bibles
> > > origins.
> >
> >
> >
> Jon Gabriel wrote:
> >
> > I have a number of Baptist
--- Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jan Coffey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 1:45 AM
> Subject: Re: Catholicism Re:
- Original Message -
From: "Jan Coffey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 1:45 AM
Subject: Re: Catholicism Re: james ossuary a fake - scientists
>
> --- Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTE
Reggie Bautista wrote:
> The primary differences between Catholics and Fundamentalists,
> as I see it, are what one believes about whether the Bible is to be
> interpreted literally, and whether the Bible is the only viable source for
> spiritual info. (By the way, you could probably find lots
-Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Doug Pensinger
> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 9:44 PM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Re: Catholicism Re: james ossuary a fake - scientists
>
>
> Nick Arnett wrote:
>
--- Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jan Coffey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 5:59 PM
> Subject: Re: Catholicism Re: jam
In a message dated 6/23/2003 9:45:25 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Nick Arnett wrote:
>
> >
> > God certainly was clever to invent evolution.
> >
>
> Hmm... I think it is fascinating how evolution has created God.
>
> 8^)
>
> Doug
>
Hmmm.. 8^)
> On Behalf Of Robert Seeberger:
>
> > The meme that claims the Bible as the only
> > source of christian truth is a protestant myth
> > that totally ignores the truth of the Bibles
> > origins.
>
>
>
Jon Gabriel wrote:
>
> I have a number of Baptist (bible-literalist) and
> Protestant friends
Nick Arnett wrote:
God certainly was clever to invent evolution.
Hmm... I think it is fascinating how evolution has created God.
8^)
Doug
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
At 08:44 PM 6/23/03 -0700, Deborah Harrell wrote:
I forgot to include the URL for transubstantiation, so
here it is:
http://www.carm.org/dictionary/dic_t.htm#Transubstantiation
I'm afraid to click on it . . .
-- Ronn! :)
God bless America,
Land that I love!
Stand beside her, and guide her
Thr
I forgot to include the URL for transubstantiation, so
here it is:
http://www.carm.org/dictionary/dic_t.htm#Transubstantiation
Debbi
GSV Oops!
__
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
_
--- Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Reggie Bautista wrote:
> > Nick wrote:
> > >You (plural) don't believe that Jesus is fully
> human?
> >
> > I could be wrong since my beliefs have moved
> somewhat away from mainstream
> > Catholic thought, but I believe the official
> Catholic part
- Original Message -
From: "Robert Seeberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: Catholicism Re: james ossuary a fake - scientists
>
> OK... So they have these lis
- Original Message -
From: "Jan Coffey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: Catholicism Re: james ossuary a fake - scientists
>
> One very interesting interpritation
- Original Message -
From: "Dan Minette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: Catholicism Re: james ossuary a fake - scientists
>
> - Original Message -
> F
- Original Message -
From: "Robert Seeberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: Catholicism Re: james ossuary a fake - scientists
> >
>
> Not being argumenta
- Original Message -
From: "Dan Minette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: Catholicism Re: james ossuary a fake - scientists
>
> - Original Message -
>
--- Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
~~Now, if you wished to argue that the covenent communities came before
scripture, then you would have my...and most biblical scholars' support.
But, that is a seperate question from which came first: the Catholic church
or the bible.~~
Thanks for cleari
- Original Message -
From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 11:04 AM
Subject: RE: Catholicism Re: james ossuary a fake - scientists
>
> Given, however, that the
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Reggie Bautista
...
> Nick wrote:
> >You (plural) don't believe that Jesus is fully human?
>
> I could be wrong since my beliefs have moved somewhat away from
> mainstream
> Catholic thought, but I believ
--- Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Reggie Bautista wrote:
> >
> > Nick wrote:
> > >You (plural) don't believe that Jesus is fully human?
> >
> > I could be wrong since my beliefs have moved somewhat away from
> mainstream
> > Catholic thought, but I believe the official Catholic par
Reggie Bautista wrote:
>
> Nick wrote:
> >You (plural) don't believe that Jesus is fully human?
>
> I could be wrong since my beliefs have moved somewhat away from mainstream
> Catholic thought, but I believe the official Catholic party line is that
> Jesus was both fully human and fully divine,
Nick wrote:
You (plural) don't believe that Jesus is fully human?
I could be wrong since my beliefs have moved somewhat away from mainstream
Catholic thought, but I believe the official Catholic party line is that
Jesus was both fully human and fully divine, just as the eucharist is both
fully b
At 15:04 2003-06-23 -0500, Ronn! wrote:
Is there a belief, either official or unofficial, that they cannot get
into heaven without that process?
-- Ronn! :)
No. There is a belief, however, that it may make things easier.
God is the final Judge, but he may, in His wisdom, take in account
the pra
- Original Message -
From: "Ronn!Blankenship" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 3:04 PM
Subject: RE: Catholicism Re: james ossuary a fake - scientists
>Is there a belief, either official
At 03:55 PM 6/23/03 -0400, Jean-Louis Couturier wrote:
At 07:31 2003-06-23 -0700, Nick wrote:
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Reggie Bautista
...
> rob wrote:
> >Mary and the other saints are a lot like union stewards. They can get
> >th
At 07:31 2003-06-23 -0700, Nick wrote:
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Reggie Bautista
...
> rob wrote:
> >Mary and the other saints are a lot like union stewards. They can get
> >things
> >done for you.
> >It's quite a different meme t
At 14:06 2003-06-22 -0500, Ronn! wrote:
At 12:55 PM 6/22/03 -0500, Reggie Bautista wrote:
Ronn! wrote:
One question which might be asked here is why does anyone need someone
else to pray for them? IOW, why is it necessary for a Catholic to pray
to Mary and ask her to pray to God for them? Why c
At 10:39 2003-06-21 -0500, Robert Seeberger wrote:
In the "One True Church" Mary is not deified, but being the "Mother Of
God" she sits close at the right hand of God in heaven and has influence as
an "Advocate".
What this clearly shows is the influence of the fuedal (for lack of a better
word) soc
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of John D. Giorgis
...
> Exactly. Jesus, is of course a great choice to pray to, since he is,
> after all the source. But, since Jesus has that whole divinity thing
> about him, Mary - who is fully human
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Reggie Bautista
...
> rob wrote:
> >Mary and the other saints are a lot like union stewards. They can get
> >things
> >done for you.
> >It's quite a different meme than the ones that are found in most
>
At 12:55 PM 6/22/03 -0500, Reggie Bautista wrote:
Ronn! wrote:
One question which might be asked here is why does anyone need someone
else to pray for them? IOW, why is it necessary for a Catholic to pray
to Mary and ask her to pray to God for them? Why cannot reason that
person pray directly
Ronn! wrote:
One question which might be asked here is why does anyone need someone else
to pray for them? IOW, why is it necessary for a Catholic to pray to Mary
and ask her to pray to God for them? Why cannot reason that person pray
directly to God?
(Serious question, not meant as any sort
rob wrote:
Mary and the other saints are a lot like union stewards. They can get
things
done for you.
It's quite a different meme than the ones that are found in most protestant
sects, but it has been with the catholic church long before the protestant
reformation. I would think that it has alway
Someone wrote (sorry, it's sometimes hard to keep track of attributions)
>IIRC, at least two ex-girlfriends also recited the 'Hail Holy Queen'. I
>remember thinking it was a nice prayer and asked one of them to teach it
>to me. So is adding it in an accepted variation of the standard Rosary
>or we
At 11:47 AM 6/22/2003 -0500 Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
>We may be talking different languages here, but I'm still trying to
>understand why (if I'm understanding correctly at all) Catholics would
>_need_ to have Mary pray for them? Does the Catholic church teach that
>ordinary people do not have d
At 12:29 PM 6/22/03 -0400, John D. Giorgis wrote:
At 06:58 PM 6/21/2003 -0500 Robert Seeberger wrote:
>My father is dead and I talk to him in my prayers. Does this mean that I
>accord my father the same status as God?
>I pray to the saints for intercession. Does this make them gods?
>Doctrine says
>I guess I shouldn't have assumed this, but I do believe the rosary is
>one of the most important parts of Catholic ritual, and that's why I
>mentioned it.
I would say "an important", rather than "most important."For example,
it is possible to be a good Catholic, and never say the rosary - un
At 06:58 PM 6/21/2003 -0500 Robert Seeberger wrote:
>My father is dead and I talk to him in my prayers. Does this mean that I
>accord my father the same status as God?
>I pray to the saints for intercession. Does this make them gods?
>Doctrine says no, but also implies that praying to dead people m
- Original Message -
From: "Erik Reuter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 4:29 AM
Subject: Re: Catholicism Re: james ossuary a fake - scientists
> On Sat, Jun 21, 2003 at 06:58:55PM -050
On Sat, Jun 21, 2003 at 06:58:55PM -0500, Robert Seeberger wrote:
> If history were common knowledge, it would put "Literalism" into
> doubt. A lot of fundementalists seem to think the Bible was handed
> down by God complete and unabridged as if somewhere out in the world
> there exists a copy of
On Sunday, June 22, 2003, at 01:03 am, Robert Seeberger wrote:
- Original Message -
From: "William T Goodall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Discussing crazy nonsense as if it were real might have long-term
deleterious affects on your mental health :)
Anyone for dowsing, Tarot cards or Astrology?
T
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of William T Goodall
> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 7:55 PM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Re: Catholicism Re: james ossuary a fake - scientists
>
>
> On Saturday, June 21, 2003, at 08:42 pm, J
- Original Message -
From: "William T Goodall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: Catholicism Re: james ossuary a fake - scientists
>
> On Saturday, June 21, 2003, a
- Original Message -
From: "Jon Gabriel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Killer Bs Discussion'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 2:25 PM
Subject: RE: Catholicism Re: james ossuary a fake - scientists
> > From: [EMAIL PROTE
On Saturday, June 21, 2003, at 08:42 pm, Jon Gabriel wrote:
Ha! Okay. That makes sense.
It also makes sense, as I consider this, that Mary, as an 'advocate'
would be considered more accessible? That's probably not the right
word.
Discussing crazy nonsense as if it were real might have long
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of John D. Giorgis
> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 12:04 PM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: RE: Catholicism Re: james ossuary a fake - scientists
>
> At 09:49 AM 6/21/2003 -0400 Jon Gabriel wrote:
> >
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> In a message dated 6/21/2003 11:06:04 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> > Many so-called fundamentalist Christians apparently do want exactly that,
> > and are willing to help Him hurry.
> >
>
> Well not before the third Lord of the Rings
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:brin-l-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert
Seeberger
> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 11:40 AM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Re: Catholicism Re: james ossuary a fake - scientists
>
>
> - Original Message -
>
In a message dated 6/21/2003 11:06:04 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Many so-called fundamentalist Christians apparently do want exactly that,
> and are willing to help Him hurry.
>
Well not before the third Lord of the Rings, thank you very much.
William Taylor
_
At 11:31 AM 6/21/2003 -0500 Robert Seeberger wrote:
>How many "Mary" sightings do you hear about in China or India?
Well there are Shrines to "Our Lady of India" and "Our Lady of China" at
the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception here in
washington DC.
JDG
At 11:31 AM 6/21/03 -0500, Robert Seeberger wrote:
One might note that "Mary" sightings are most frequent in Hispanic countries
or in areas with strong catholic traditions.
How many "Mary" sightings do you hear about in China or India?
One explanation is that when God deals with people, he does
At 12:04 PM 6/21/03 -0400, John D. Giorgis wrote:
[snip]
There is a huge difference between worship and prayer. Prayer is simply a
method of communication. Worship is a type of communication.
For example, Catholics believe in life-everlasting after death in heaven.
Given that most Christians
- Original Message -
From: "Reggie Bautista" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: Catholicism Re: james ossuary a fake - scientists
> rob replied:
> Jon wrote:
> > > A side question. Wh
rob replied:
And you would be wrong.
Very wrong.
In the "One True Church" Mary is not deified, but being the "Mother Of
God" she sits close at the right hand of God in heaven and has influence as
an "Advocate".
[snip]
Most Christians have at some point asked someone else to pray for them,
whether
At 09:49 AM 6/21/2003 -0400 Jon Gabriel wrote:
>> 1) How many times is Mary mentioned in the normal Catholic Mass (which
>> Catholics are obligated to attend weekly)?
>
>Interesting. I have no idea, but I'd like to know the answer and would
>appreciate your posting it. While we're at it, what abo
- Original Message -
From: "Jon Gabriel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Killer Bs Discussion'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 8:49 AM
Subject: RE: Catholicism Re: james ossuary a fake - scientists
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECT
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of John D. Giorgis
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 11:28 PM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Catholicism Re: james ossuary a fake - scientists
>
> At 10:04 PM 6/20/2003 -0500 The Fool wrote:
> >No
At 10:04 PM 6/20/2003 -0500 The Fool wrote:
>No I just think catholics are hyprocritical. They profess to follow
>christ, but it is mary for whom they worship.
A couple questions:
1) How many times is Mary mentioned in the normal Catholic Mass (which
Catholics are obligated to attend weekly)?
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