Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

-- > > -Original Message- > From: LRS Scout [mailto:lrssc...@gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 12:10 AM > To: cf-community > Subject: RE: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks... > > > Has a new law permitting purchase been added to the books? >

RE: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

g.com -Original Message- From: LRS Scout [mailto:lrssc...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 12:10 AM To: cf-community Subject: RE: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks... Has a new law permitting purchase been added to the books? On Oct 25,

RE: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

- > From: LRS Scout [mailto:lrssc...@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 11:00 AM > To: cf-community > Subject: Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks... > > > FBI statistics have shown clearly that states with shall issue requirements > and higher le

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

"M...i dunno...i'm CLOSE to a zealot on this issue. " Nah. You are having a civil discussion and haven't resorted to insults and name calling. You have not been condescending. You have admitted that a lot of your disdain for handguns is just a personal preference. That is not a zealot. B

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

"I just find it odd that even IF it were possible to live completely without hand guns, you'd still prefer that EVERYONE have one instead. Makes no sense." It's not completely possible to live without guns. It's possible to make them illegal. It's been tried in DC, with horrendous results. But

RE: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

-8531 http://www.threeravensconsulting.com -Original Message- From: LRS Scout [mailto:lrssc...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 11:00 AM To: cf-community Subject: Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks... FBI statistics have shown

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

I was referring to his use of the data. On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:52 PM, GMoney wrote: > > I don't think he was cherry picking, he just didn't notice the nuance in > the argument i was making. > > In any event, I don't think crime stats do a very good job of describing > the affects of hand gun

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

The first 10 years of handgun bans in DC showed no substantial change in homicide rates. '85 to '92 saw a massive spike in homicide rates from 25 per 100K to 80 per 100K. The laws had not changed. '92 to '06, when Heller was decided, saw the homicide rate plunge from 80 back down to 30 per 100K, b

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

I don't think he was cherry picking, he just didn't notice the nuance in the argument i was making. In any event, I don't think crime stats do a very good job of describing the affects of hand guns on our society, both good and bad. If a gun prevents a crime, it won't show up in a stat, and if a

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

How so? Facts to back that up and counter the argument Larry? On Oct 25, 2012 12:43 PM, "Larry C. Lyons" wrote: > > you have to admit its a nice piece of cherry picking. > > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:09 PM, GMoney wrote: > > > > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Jerry Barnes > wrote: > > > >

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

you have to admit its a nice piece of cherry picking. On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:09 PM, GMoney wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > >> >> "FBI statistics have shown clearly that states with shall issue >> requirements and higher levels of gun ownership have lower i

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

Also long guns are not good for home defense. Short carbines and shottys are OK, but a pistol is the right tool. You have to look at length, noise signature, over penetration, there are a lot of considerations that go into choosing a defensive weapon vice an offensive one. Why do cops carry pis

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

Its a cheap czec pistol with a really hot little 7.62 x .25 round. On Oct 25, 2012 12:27 PM, "GMoney" wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:20 AM, LRS Scout wrote: > > > > > The reality is that I personally have used a gun twice to stop violent > > crime without firing a shot. One rape and one

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:20 AM, LRS Scout wrote: > > The reality is that I personally have used a gun twice to stop violent > crime without firing a shot. One rape and one break in. A cheap cz-52. > I have no idea what a cz-52 is...is that a pistol? I have no problem with long guns...they

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > "I can't, other than logic, and reality, and the evening news...and > some statistics, > i guess. " > > Okay. I can't call you a zealot then since you acknowledge that there are > holes in the argument. > M...i dunno...i'm CLOSE to

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

The reality is that I personally have used a gun twice to stop violent crime without firing a shot. One rape and one break in. A cheap cz-52. Read the book More guns, less crime. It lays it all out statistically. In the end though I don't care. I will never give up my weapons. Freedom isn't

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

"I can't, other than logic, and reality, and the evening news...and some statistics, i guess. " Okay. I can't call you a zealot then since you acknowledge that there are holes in the argument. "It can be hard to find stats for "successful uses of a gun in self defense" however." Only bad new

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > "But hand guns still harm more people than they help. " > > Proof? > > I can't, other than logic, and reality, and the evening news...and some statistics, i guess. It can be hard to find stats for "successful uses of a gun in self defense

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > "FBI statistics have shown clearly that states with shall issue > requirements and higher levels of gun ownership have lower incidents of > violent crime. Meanwhile in cities with the strictest gun laws (DC, > Chicago) these rates continu

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

"But hand guns still harm more people than they help. " Proof? "We're stuck with them, but we'd be better off without them." I understand that this is strictly opinion. I'll counter with my opinion: "We're stuck with them, but we'd be better off if everybody had them." J - Government's

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

Yes, these statistics are all true. But hand guns still harm more people than they help. We're stuck with them, but we'd be better off without them. On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:59 AM, LRS Scout wrote: > > FBI statistics have shown clearly that states with shall issue requirements > and higher l

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

"FBI statistics have shown clearly that states with shall issue requirements and higher levels of gun ownership have lower incidents of violent crime. Meanwhile in cities with the strictest gun laws (DC, Chicago) these rates continuted to rise. After Heller and the new stuff gong on in DC since 0

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

FBI statistics have shown clearly that states with shall issue requirements and higher levels of gun ownership have lower incidents of violent crime. Meanwhile in cities with the strictest gun laws (DC, Chicago) these rates continuted to rise. After Heller and the new stuff gong on in DC since 09

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

"Yes, it's nice that for about every 100 people shot, one person is able to successfully defend themselves." You just making a grand generalization or got some stats to back it up? And, it seems like you didn't read the last one. It has nothing to do with personal self defense, but everything t

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

that's an optimistic number. I suspect that its more like one in a thousand if that. Thing is these anecdotes are nice and cute and all that but demonstrate nothing. They are just stories not data. People need to learn that the singular of data is not anecdote. On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 8:49 AM,

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

Yes, it's nice that for about every 100 people shot, one person is able to successfully defend themselves. On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 10:19 PM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > "I am not for much gun control, but this sucks..." > > On the positive side: > > 12-Year-Old Girl Shoots Intruder During Home Inva

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

"I am not for much gun control, but this sucks..." On the positive side: 12-Year-Old Girl Shoots Intruder During Home Invasion In Bryan County Farmer, 92, shoots intruder dead through the heart

RE: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

-Original Message- From: LRS Scout [mailto:lrssc...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 5:44 PM To: cf-community Subject: Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks... Protect and defend huh man? Glad to hear your oath still means so much to

RE: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

: Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks... Yeah, but is a private seller required to vet the purchaser through the court, because even if the seller had asked the purchaser if he was legally able to purchase, the guy would probably have lied. On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Jerry

RE: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

-Original Message- From: Maureen [mailto:mamamaur...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 2:18 PM To: cf-community Subject: Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks... The bartender would be legally culpable in some states. As for morally culpable, I don't know. I know I

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

Protect and defend huh man? Glad to hear your oath still means so much to you. On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 6:38 PM, Eric Roberts < ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: > > It why the laws that apply to dealers need to also apply to private and gun > show sales. > > --

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

And even then only when you're buying a pistol from a licensed dealer, long guns don't require a background check. so yeah, what Bruce said :) On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Bruce Sorge wrote: > > Only licensed gun sellers are required to do background checks. Private > sellers are exempt fr

RE: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

It why the laws that apply to dealers need to also apply to private and gun show sales. Three Ravens Consulting Eric Roberts Owner/Developer ow...@threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-486-5255 fax: 630-310-8531 http://www.threeravensconsulting.com --

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

nal Marlin lever actions. Jeff Original Message > From: "Maureen" > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 2:15 PM > To: "cf-community" > Subject: Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks... > > This was in Georgia about 20 years ago, and

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

Original Message -------- > > From: "Maureen" > > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 1:26 PM > > To: "cf-community" > > Subject: Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks... > > > > Yeah, but is a private seller required to vet the purch

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

h a FFL on consignment or just sell them outright to the FFL and they will sell them after that. Jeff Original Message > From: "Maureen" > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 1:26 PM > To: "cf-community" > Subject: Re: I am not for much gun control,

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

Ahh, I see. Well at lease you can sleep at night knowing that nothing will blow back on you if he does do anything illegal with it. On Oct 23, 2012, at 4:42 PM, Maureen wrote: > > I actually did know this person, which is why I know now that he is > unstable. But he wasn't, or did not appe

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

I actually did know this person, which is why I know now that he is unstable. But he wasn't, or did not appear to be, unstable when I sold him the gun. Still, I wish I had not done so, even though he said he only wanted it for sentimental reasons. And granted, a shotgun is not always the weapo

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

Only licensed gun sellers are required to do background checks. Private sellers are exempt from that. So if you sell a gun to someone who would not pass a state or federal background check, you only have to take their word for it, and yes, I am sure that they would lie. That is why I would ONLY

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

Yeah, but is a private seller required to vet the purchaser through the court, because even if the seller had asked the purchaser if he was legally able to purchase, the guy would probably have lied. On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Jerry Milo Johnson wrote: > > except in this case, the courts

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

Yeah, my comment was for Maureen. On Oct 23, 2012 3:55 PM, "Jerry Milo Johnson" wrote: > > except in this case, the courts HAD been involved, and he was legally > forbidden to own or purchase a gun. > > > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 3:48 PM, LRS Scout wrote: > > > > I agree. With alcohol its som

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

except in this case, the courts HAD been involved, and he was legally forbidden to own or purchase a gun. On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 3:48 PM, LRS Scout wrote: > > I agree. With alcohol its some what easier. You know if you've served > someone more than one or two drinks an hour they shouldn't b

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

I agree. With alcohol its some what easier. You know if you've served someone more than one or two drinks an hour they shouldn't be driving. Its much harder spotting someone truly unstable, and legally require the couts to be involved. On Oct 23, 2012 3:45 PM, "Bruce Sorge" wrote: > > No Maur

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

No Maureen you are not. Just as a pencil is not responsible for a failing grade. If you sell a car to someone, and they hit someone, are you responsible? No. Sent from my iPhone 4S. On Oct 23, 2012, at 2:49 PM, Maureen wrote: > > Years ago, I sold a shotgun to a private party who seemed v

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

If you go through an FFL licensed dealer you won't have to worry about it. What do you have? On Oct 23, 2012 3:18 PM, "Maureen" wrote: > > The bartender would be legally culpable in some states. As for morally > culpable, I don't know. I know I will never sell another gun or knife > because

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

then again if they are rare and collectable, you may want to contact something like IMA-USA.com or other antique firearms dealers. That tends to side step the moral issue, since most purchasers would most likely never fire the weapon again. But they still get some enjoyment/utility out of it, and

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

The bartender would be legally culpable in some states. As for morally culpable, I don't know. I know I will never sell another gun or knife because I don't wanna have to stress about how they will be used. Which kinda sucks, because I have a bunch from the estate I would like to get rid of.

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

Hard to say, its a similar argument to a bartender who lets a patron drink too much. On the drive home the drunk plows into a van with a family of 4. Is the bartender morally culpable? On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 2:49 PM, Maureen wrote: > > Years ago, I sold a shotgun to a private party who seemed v

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

Years ago, I sold a shotgun to a private party who seemed very normal at the time but later became real twitchy. I have no idea how to get it back. The local cops in the jurisdiction where I sold it are aware of the transaction and the individual. They say nothing can be done unless he does so

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

right, no. responsibility, yes. On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > > what you are questioning the sacred right to bear arms? Let the berating > begin. > > (pardon forgot the tags). ~| Order the Adobe Col

Re: I am not for much gun control, but this sucks...

what you are questioning the sacred right to bear arms? Let the berating begin. (pardon forgot the tags). On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 2:15 PM, Jerry Milo Johnson wrote: > > http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/23/justice/wisconsin-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t3 > > I truly hope that the name of the private s