He goes farther than I would, but I agree with his basic premise. I
especially like the bits at the end about how we don't own our freedom, it
was gained by people who gave their lives for it, and we are merely
custodians of it (presumably for future generations) and have no right to
give it away.
I guess this guy is pretty close to my viewpoint:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9dXGJ2rYdA
On Mar 30, 2008, at 8:41 PM, Loathe wrote:
> I'm not saying kill them all.
>
> Larry Lyons wrote:
>> lets see Tehran has over 12 million inhabitants, Mecca has a
>> further million and a half. Killin
I'm not saying kill them all.
Larry Lyons wrote:
> lets see Tehran has over 12 million inhabitants, Mecca has a further million
> and a half. Killing that number certainly equals an attempt at genocide.
> Further nuking a religious center that's at the heart of the religion is
> definitely str
That war has already begun my friend.
Larry Lyons wrote:
> Bluntly put that is about the most stupid thing that could be done. I'm quite
> surprised that you even consider it. It does show a very limited and ignorant
> view of Islam. Nuking Mecca would create a generational war that would not
>
lets see Tehran has over 12 million inhabitants, Mecca has a further million
and a half. Killing that number certainly equals an attempt at genocide.
Further nuking a religious center that's at the heart of the religion is
definitely striking at the foundations of Islam.
In other words you're
Bluntly put that is about the most stupid thing that could be done. I'm quite
surprised that you even consider it. It does show a very limited and ignorant
view of Islam. Nuking Mecca would create a generational war that would not end
until one side or the other is exterminated. I think that all
What are the percentages of Muslims who feel the statements made are true
and representative is the important thing. How many recognize that the
statements made my their co-religionists are false and how many believe
them. Are the terrorists winning the hearts and minds of their own people
while th
Exactly.
On 29/03/2008, Robert Munn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What's the problem? The poll reveals what people understand: the film is
> about Islamic extremism, not Islam in general, and most everyone polled
> agrees with that sentiment. That 43% of those polled believe Islam (or, more
> sp
What's the problem? The poll reveals what people understand: the film is
about Islamic extremism, not Islam in general, and most everyone polled
agrees with that sentiment. That 43% of those polled believe Islam (or, more
specifically, Islamic extremism) is a threat to the Netherlands demonstrates
(IsraelNN.com) The LiveLink site removed a short film titled "Fitna" from
its website on Friday after receiving threats "of a very serious nature."
The film portrays Islam as a violent religion that threatens European
democracy.
United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon criticized the film, sayi
12% of Muslims questioned or 12% of non-Muslims?
On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 9:11 AM, Vivec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080328/film_nm/dutch_islam_film_dc
>
> "Pollster Maurice de Hond found that only 12 percent of those
> questioned thought the film represented Islam ac
Why are they worried, surely there is no credibility to threats from
believers in such a peace loving religion
LOL
Can't even finish it.
On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Vivec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That's just ridiculous :(
>
> It is a very sad day, and the press agents that releas
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080328/film_nm/dutch_islam_film_dc
"Pollster Maurice de Hond found that only 12 percent of those
questioned thought the film represented Islam accurately, but 43
percent agreed Islam was a serious threat to the Netherlands over the
long term."
This film is not a news story, balance is irrelevant. The film advocates a
position against Islamization of the West. Yes, it is inflammatory, but
nowhere does it advocate wiping out all Mulsims or Islam itself. What is
wrong with opposing the notion that mosques should have a role in
government? W
That's just ridiculous :(
It is a very sad day, and the press agents that released information
about Liveleak should also be soundly thumped. But I guess that's
competition, if they can't show it why should LiveLeak get all the
glory.
Good thing that the video lives on Google, but who knows, mayb
The movie:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3369102968312745410&q=fitna&total=1521&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=5
C. Hatton Humphrey wrote:
> I wonder if it (or the threats they mention) are archived somewhere.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Loathe <[EMAIL PROTECTED
I wonder if it (or the threats they mention) are archived somewhere.
On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Loathe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7d9_1206624103
>
> I can't believe this.
>
>
>
~|
Adobe
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7d9_1206624103
I can't believe this.
~|
Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to
date
Get the Free Trial
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Ar
Tim did
On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 1:15 PM, Michael Dinowitz
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I really must have missed something. Who advocated nuclear weapons as a
> solution? From what your saying, it sounds like the video advocated it.
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 2:45 PM, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
** Private ** wrote:
> This movie takes direct quotes from the Qu'ran, from imams, from the
> media. Images from real life.
I could take quotes from the bible, from David Koresh and some leaders of the
Army of God, from the media. I could take some images from real life in Iraq
and edit them t
Ah, misread what Dana said. She said "He just doesn't advocate nuclear
weapons as a solution." which I took to mean that the speaker didn't
advocate nukes in response to something said by the video or someone HE
knew. My mistake.
I'm rewriting blogCFC to put in full SES urls so my attention is divi
** Private ** wrote:
> It's horrible what is occuring in the Netherlands, and it has to be stopped.
What exactly has to be stopped, free speach?
> No prime minister should fear expression of free speech to such an
> extent that he thinks it would endanger his country, especially not
> one that t
I did.
I said (in an angry rant) nuke Tehran and Mecca and this shit is over.
To be honest, I pretty much stand by the statement though. I honestly
think it would break the will to fight of 95% of the extremists to see
what a first world nation can do when we get our balls up.
Even if it didn
I really must have missed something. Who advocated nuclear weapons as a
solution? From what your saying, it sounds like the video advocated it.
On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 2:45 PM, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Laugh if you want. This is someone who, as far as I can tell, agrees
> with you that t
No I don't. I just don't take anything off of NPR at face value.
I listen to it all the time, I just make sure it's only one of my sources.
Dana wrote:
> Laugh if you want. This is someone who, as far as I can tell, agrees
> with you that there is a problem. He just doesn't advocate nuclear
> we
Laugh if you want. This is someone who, as far as I can tell, agrees
with you that there is a problem. He just doesn't advocate nuclear
weapons as a solution. If anything less is politically incorrect in
your eyes, I don't think you are going to make much headway.
On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 12:33 PM,
Really, on NPR no less?
Do tell.
hahah
Dana wrote:
> I have not seen the film so I have not been in this conversation.
> However I will note that I heard an interview on NPR this morning with
> the author of a book about Theo van Gogh entitled Murder in Amsterdam:
> The Limits of Tolerance.
>
>
I have not seen the film so I have not been in this conversation.
However I will note that I heard an interview on NPR this morning with
the author of a book about Theo van Gogh entitled Murder in Amsterdam:
The Limits of Tolerance.
And *he* thinks the film is demagoguic nonsense.
Dana
On Fri, M
So by your logic we should have invaded the Soviet Union during the Cold War?
Or what about China these days? By your logic we should be hitting the beaches
next week.
Wait they might be able to fight back. That changes everything doesn't it. Its
fine to have these wonderful hawkish feelings wh
But we're not talking the same degrees of extremism in any shape or form.
Yes, extremism is bad but saying all is bad in one breath like they're all
the same thing is just wrong.
Saudi Arabia is where we're seeing these television shows and speeches
coming from. Egypt is where we're seeing them fr
TangentiallyKansas is once again trying to pass legislation that limits
these clowns ability to picket funerals.
I'm still opposed to this type of legislation, but I heartily support the
actions of groups like the Patriot Guard that pretty much render the
Westboro pickets moot.
On Fri, Mar 28
But we're not, because of our laws, because moderates and atheists and
agnostics would never allow that to occur.
Scott Stewart wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Read my response to Jerry, extremism is dangerous, be it Islamic, or
> Christian. If the United States was in the same state of lawlessness as
> Ira
Very much condemned I myself went and demonstrated against them the last
time they were at Bethesda Naval.
Michael Dinowitz wrote:
> So the website is explicitly saying Go and Kill? If not then there doesn't
> seem to be a fair comparison. Also, are they condemned or accepted?
>
> On Fri, Mar 28
So how many deaths have been attributed to this then?
Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
> I'd say that really depends on the the congregation and the pastor.
>
>
> On Mar 28, 2008, at 9:32 AM, Loathe wrote:
>
>> Praying for someone to die != go kill someone
>
> "So I mixed up the batter and she licked
On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 10:51 AM, Scott Stewart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> And you're absolutely right..
>
> The problem is that these people have followers who will take these words
> and actions literally. While the leaders of these factions will not take
> up
> the sword themselves, they know
I did a few days ago.
I said if you want these wars to end nuke Tehran and nuke Mecca.
I stand by it.
Michael Dinowitz wrote:
>> You talk about tainted messengers and extol the work of a man who's
>
> Who's extolling? Your accusing me of words/actions which do not exist.
>
>
>> But the utter
Um, where have I EVER advocated the destruction of a city or civilization?
Your bringing in the genocide word again and again but who are you claiming
is calling for it?
Besides that, the strong and prevalent moderate side I'm seeing isn't as
moderate as you want to believe. Who are they? CAIR? Abb
o:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 10:47 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: I can't believe no one has posted yet about Fitna
>
> You don't see a difference between waving those signs, and actually
> cutting
> off a man's head and holding it up?
>
Developer
SSTWebworks
4405 Oakshyre Way
Raleigh, NC. 27616
(919) 874-6229 (home)
(703) 220-2835 (cell)
-Original Message-
From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 10:51 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: I can't believe no one has posted yet abou
4405 Oakshyre Way
Raleigh, NC. 27616
(919) 874-6229 (home)
(703) 220-2835 (cell)
-Original Message-
From: Jerry Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 10:47 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: I can't believe no one has posted yet about Fitna
You don't s
So the website is explicitly saying Go and Kill? If not then there doesn't
seem to be a fair comparison. Also, are they condemned or accepted?
On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Scott Stewart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Added to this:
>
> http://www.godhatesfags.com
>
> There's plenty of the same
Thats one city. I actually advocated the bombing of 2 cities, thats not
genocide.
Vivec wrote:
> You have no evidence that the Majority of Islam is militant.
> Show me those statistics.
>
> And you are saying that you haven't advocated wiping them all out to
> solve the problem? what would Nuki
You don't see a difference between waving those signs, and actually cutting
off a man's head and holding it up?
Neither is good, but I think one is infinitely worse.
On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 10:43 AM, Scott Stewart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Uhmmm... do they need to openly show this. These are
So he said to go and kill them? Did he pull out a sword and say to chop off
their heads? Or did he call on people to read prayers which included phrases
calling for death (phrases which should be shown in context as Gel said
above). I seem to see him saying that he was not personally calling for
d
I'd say that really depends on the the congregation and the pastor.
On Mar 28, 2008, at 9:32 AM, Loathe wrote:
>
> Praying for someone to die != go kill someone
"So I mixed up the batter and she licked the beater!"
~|
Ado
874-6229 (home)
(703) 220-2835 (cell)
-Original Message-
From: Jerry Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 10:36 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: I can't believe no one has posted yet about Fitna
I can't seem to find the beheading videos on that site, Sc
I'm saying that denying there is a strong and prevalent moderate side,
advocating the destruction of a city and civilisation as some sort of
solution to a problem of an extremist minority, is Genocide, hatred
and in itself Extremism simply on the other side of the divide.
I've read about the denun
>
> You talk about tainted messengers and extol the work of a man who's
Who's extolling? Your accusing me of words/actions which do not exist.
> But the utter and abject stupidity inherent in responses such as Nuke
> Tehran, Kill them all is that if one feels that moderate Muslims are
Who's say
I can't seem to find the beheading videos on that site, Scott.
What is their death toll?
On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Scott Stewart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Added to this:
>
> http://www.godhatesfags.com
>
> There's plenty of the same kind of extremism in Christianity as there is
> in
>
On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 10:10 AM, Vivec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Where are the pictures of the Imams, clerics and government officials
> calling for peace?
Yes, where are they? Where are the clear denunciation of the extremists?
Where are the clear calls for peace and love of ones fellow?
>
874-6229 (home)
(703) 220-2835 (cell)
-Original Message-
From: Zaphod Beeblebrox [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 10:23 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: I can't believe no one has posted yet about Fitna
On Mar 28, 2008, at 9:00 AM, Michael Dinowitz wrote:
>
"In light of the recent attack from the enemies of God I ask the
children of God to go into action with Imprecatory Prayer,"
Praying for someone to die != go kill someone
Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
> On Mar 28, 2008, at 9:00 AM, Michael Dinowitz wrote:
>> Show me a pastor who says to cut off the h
There can be no livable peace with nazis, communists, fascists, or
anyone else that wants to force you to live according to it's views
under threat of death.
What is the difference. The difference is that in the west we welcome
debate on these issues, we welcome dissent. We don't punish it wi
You have no evidence that the Majority of Islam is militant.
Show me those statistics.
And you are saying that you haven't advocated wiping them all out to
solve the problem? what would Nuking Tehran be about then?
On 28/03/2008, Loathe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> When have I advocated genocide?
When have I advocated genocide?
These lists are archived, back up that statement gellie, it's utter
nonsense.
One not only can pull damning images and video of Christianity but it is
done quite regularly, without beheading and bombing in the after math.
Something to realize, I know about moder
On Mar 28, 2008, at 9:00 AM, Michael Dinowitz wrote:
>
> Show me a pastor who says to cut off the heads of homosexuals. Show
> me one
> who calls for the literal, not figurative but literal death of
> another. Show
> me one who pulls out a gun or sword or cuts off a head.
>
http://www.ocregist
You know, someone could do the same thing with images of Vietnam,
Hiroshima, Abu Gharib and hidden torture facilities in Poland, spliced
with clips of Bush's speeches, McCains campaign rantings etc. and in
the end the United States would appear to be the biggest evil that
exists in the world.
Oh w
Where are the pictures of the Imams, clerics and government officials
calling for peace?
Or is it that in your own twisted version of reality they don't exist?
That's extremism, hatred and advocacy of Genocide in a slightly different guise.
At least the Islamists are honest about their hatreds and
On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 9:41 AM, Vivec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There are no points.
>
> This 'movie' and I use the term very loosely, shows snippets of text,
> and video footage without any context whatsoever.
Yes, cutting off someones head needs context. Much of the content had no
context o
Article in today's Washington post.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/27/AR2008032703
722.html?hpid=moreheadlines
Online, a Violent View of Islam
Anti-Immigration Dutch Lawmaker Characterizes His Film as 'Tough Reality'
By Molly Moore
Washington Post Foreign Service
Fr
Nope, not the same at all. In the protocols you have a forgery of events
that were supposed to have happened. No reliable witnesses, no proof backing
up the story and a murky trail to who actually wrote it and why. In the
video you have actual video of events. We can see who said what, where and
wh
There are no points.
This 'movie' and I use the term very loosely, shows snippets of text,
and video footage without any context whatsoever.
One can pull damning snippets of text from the Bible if one wanted
to,and string images of Pastors in the US preaching hate against
Homosexuals etc., to mak
The protocols of Zion were proven to be fraudulent, created for the sole
purpose of making people hate jews.
This movie takes direct quotes from the Qu'ran, from imams, from the
media. Images from real life.
The quote below is more leading yes, but the examples it uses are valid.
Instead
Why am I not hearing the echoes of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion here?
Its the same intent this time directed against people who follow Islam. What
next advocating some sort of final solution?
>Video is at:
>
>http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7d9_1206624103
>
>Probably the best illustration
> tBone wrote:
> Probably the best illustration of what I've been saying for years. The
> conflict we're in isn't just about Iraq or Afghanistan. It's about
> freedom
I certainly don't disagree with you - many Jewish friends of mine have
been saying for a decade that it's been assisted invasi
"But few in Trinidad see Muslim extremism gaining a foothold in the
Caribbean. If there is worry over the alleged plot to attack Kennedy
airport, it's mostly about a backlash that could make traveling to the
U.S. more difficult."
"The FBI opened a permanent office in Trinidad in 2005, partially to
Really?
http://www.jamestown.org/terrorism/news/article.php?articleid=2369924
http://barbadosfreepress.wordpress.com/2007/01/25/trinidad-jihad-al-qaida-doesnt-need-a-visa-to-attend-cricket-world-cup/
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-06-02-guyana-terror_N.htm
http://www.npr.org/templates/sto
Is it totally wrong? Movies of this sort have been made about Jews,
Christians and others yet the fear is not there for those movies.
>
>
> Hasn't history already shown that this viewpoint is utterly wrong and
> incorrect, and any aspect of Us against Them ends badly? Replace
> Muslims with Jews,
I've not seen it yet and I'm not going to talk on the right or wrong of it
till I do but the environment around it is VERY telling. Network Solutions,
who hosts racist, porn and many other very objectionable sites blocked the
site for the video because of 'terms of service' violations. In truth, th
What does this mean? That you have these issues sporadically?
On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 10:26 PM, Vivec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Odd...Muslims are a significant percentage of our population and we
> have none of the issues with Muslims on any ongoing basis that you
> mention.
Odd...Muslims are a significant percentage of our population and we
have none of the issues with Muslims on any ongoing basis that you
mention. We respect the religion and give it as much due as the other
religions and cultures in our multi-ethnic,multi religious society.
"Of course, that's not th
Everyone needs to see this movie, it is the brutal truth about the threat of
Islamo-fascism.
On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 4:46 PM, Jerry J wrote:
> That was a powerful movie.
>
> Wow.
>
> If you haven't seen it yet, do so.
>
> But give it your undivided attention, then get away and go talk to
> someo
Video is at:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7d9_1206624103
Probably the best illustration of what I've been saying for years. The
conflict we're in isn't just about Iraq or Afghanistan. It's about
freedom, and it's about stopping a power bent on world domination in the
same manner that the N
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