The suit I remember not only was to have him removed as guardian, but also
demanded that all insurance money was to be turned over as well. And as
husband, he was to continue paying for the medical care. Which I remember at
the time seemed unfair to me.
If it was a cut and dried want to retriev
Um they have sued to remove the husband as guardian.
larry
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 10:29:17 -0500, Jerry Johnson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I had heard the mom say such things before, but their suits haven't tried to
> get custody of the "body" back from the husband. They have only tried to
> pr
I had heard the mom say such things before, but their suits haven't tried to
get custody of the "body" back from the husband. They have only tried to
prevent him from doing what he thinks needs to be done.
I won't make any judgements about either party. I don't know them well enough
to decide i
If you look at the guy's website there are a lot of letters from
various physical therapists and such who have supposedly examined his
patients. All of these are on letterhead with phone numbers. Those are
the numbers I was saying I would call if I were in the situation for
real. I am not volunteer
Have these successful so-called rehab cases of PVS patients ever been
published? We only have his word of it that the treatments are
successful. If he had such a treatment, and it was as successful as he
claimed, then why hasn't it been in the journals. I still keep up
somewhat with the current neu
h his website looks like he did it himself and he is actually on
the board of the peer-reviewed journal he says he has been published
in... but there is a lot of data there. And a lot of actual names and
phone numbers of people who have seen these patients.
One wonders why it has not been publ
OK... Sam had already posted essentially the same as I just did
This is getting a little scary. But sorry for the repetition.
Dana
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 13:03:41 -0800, Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You left out the most important part:
>
> http://pmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/75/88
I was just thinking -- I should probably add that the doctor who made
that statement was in my view very caring and extremely competent. He
visited me every day and ordered an extraordinary number of blood
tests. He certainly didn't base his opinion on a 45 minute assessment.
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005
OK Larry. I see your quote and raise you the two paragraphs before it:
"Schiavo's attorney, George Felos, raised questions about Hammesfahr's
credibility by pointing out the state board of medicine had accused
him of falsely advertising his treatment.
This week, though, an administrative judge re
> Dana wrote:
> good point. I just got back still haven't read any of the links so I
> am not going to go further than that just now.
>
> > Do you also think it's Lacey Petersons fault she's dead because she
> > should have gotten a divorce?
>
It's not a good point, at least not in this conversa
Much to my consternation :) I am on Sam's side here. The site is
hardly fluff. It contains 22 separate videos and links to quite a
number of thoughtful pieces on the very real issues this case presents
to Catholic teaching. There are also links to articles in the secular
media, some, I grant you, t
Jerry
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/09/28/schiavo/index.html
I have no idea whether this represents a policy shift or not. But
there is an account of the interview fwiw.
Dana
Schiavo's parents battle for guardianship
They want son-in-law to divorce daughter
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 Posted:
much as it pains me -- yes.
Dana
(coming back through this thread without skimming now)
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:04:51 -0500, Larry C. Lyons
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So you support Jeb Bush's intervention in the case then I take it.
Different groups entirely. The Nobel Peace Prize is awarded by the
Parliament of Sweden. The prizes for the sciences are awarded by the
Swedish Academy of Science, much more prestigious.
If you going to do a comparison at least get it right in the first
place. Try researching the background a bit
good point. I just got back still haven't read any of the links so I
am not going to go further than that just now.
> Do you also think it's Lacey Petersons fault she's dead because she
> should have gotten a divorce?
~|
Save $1
the courts usually do
> The courts determined that the accusations that Shaivo beat his wife
> were unfounded and were accordingly dismissed
~|
Get the mailserver that powers this list at
http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners
Winning one means nothing to me.
Carters and Arafat each have one.
I just know it means the world to Larry. :)
Russel Madere wrote:
> A nomination doesn't mean much except he impressed a congressman. If he
> had won the prize I would be more impressed. I could be nominated for a
> Nobel Prize.
I thought the parents believe she had a heart attack and it's just
this one doctor that claims otherwise.
Larry C. Lyons wrote:
> The courts determined that the accusations that Shaivo beat his wife
> were unfounded and were accordingly dismissed
>
> I find it very interesting that the parents b
Well the point is he waited around for a year before he mentioned her
wishes. Coincidently a few weeks after the settlement. I just think
that makes the whole case suspicous.
> None of that should matter if she was willingly married to him - that
> was her free will choice and it's not up to us to
s by EATEL
www.sunshinepages.com
-Original Message-
From: Sam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 3:52 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Supreme Court refuses to hear Shiavo case
Sound like the judge should recuse himself.
Aren't you a big supporter of this nonsence c
> Sam wrote:
> What if he's living with and engaged to another women that has two of
> his children?
>
None of that should matter if she was willingly married to him - that
was her free will choice and it's not up to us to judge or apply our
morality.
As to the rumor, there should be an investig
The courts determined that the accusations that Shaivo beat his wife
were unfounded and were accordingly dismissed
I find it very interesting that the parents brought up that accusation
only after they went to court, it was not in the original disposition.
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 14:01:36 -0800, Sam
so what? He was advocating an untried therapy with no data showing
that it worked. Moreover getting nominated doesn't mean anything.
Quite a few nominees have in the past tried to advance some fairly
whacko ideas.
Until it has undergone an IRB review, at least one double blind
placebo controlled
What if he's living with and engaged to another women that has two of
his children?
What if he never mentioned her so called wishes until a year later
when $1.4 mill came into play?
There is rumor the husband is responsible for her condition:
Dr. Hammesfahr revealed that not only has Terri never
Sound like the judge should recuse himself.
Aren't you a big supporter of this nonsence called the Nobel Prize?
Dr. Hammesfahr was nominated for the Nobel Prize in Medicine and
Physiology in 1999
http://www.floridaneurologicalinstitute.com/
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 15:24:21 -0500, Larry C. Lyons
<[E
> Dana wrote:
> In this particular case the parents strike me as truthful and the
> husband does not.
To me, no matter what the case, the husband should decide - period.
The woman chose to marry the guy and therefore he should have sole
choice unless:
1.) there is a will that says otherwise,
2.
Is this true or are you guessing? Did you read it somewhere? I don't
know there names so I can't check it out.
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 16:23:45 -0500, Larry C. Lyons
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Those two doctors chosen by the Schindlers, one of which offered a
> treatment that has no scientific or m
Those two doctors chosen by the Schindlers, one of which offered a
treatment that has no scientific or medical merit - he was barely a
step above a charlatan.
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:37:34 -0800, Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Understand this pea brain, your own article states:
> "The diagnosis
You left out the most important part:
http://pmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/75/884/321
Difficulty in diagnosis
The International Working Party on Vegetative State13 recognised that
deciding the cognitive awareness of this type of patient, especially
when at a very low level, was an educate
Understand this pea brain, your own article states:
"The diagnosis of a vegetative state is not tenable if there is any
degree of voluntary movement, sustained visual pursuit, consistent and
reproducible visual fixation, or response to threatening gestures"
Which is the case for Schiavo.
As for th
for those interested, here's the currently accepted definition
http://pmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/75/884/321
The generally accepted features of the vegetative state based on these
various reports are:
* After a period of coma the patient opens his/her eyes, at first
to pain and then
You know I don't give a flying fuck what the legal definition is that
has nothing to do with medicine. In case you have not realized lawyers
are not doctors. But then again given your shaky ideas of what
constitutes valid science I'm not surprised you'd rather use a very
inexact definition from an
s.com
-Original Message-
From: Sam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 1:36 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Supreme Court refuses to hear Shiavo case
http://www.terrisfight.org/myths.html
MYTH: Terri is PVS (Persistent vegetative state)
FACT: The definition of PVS in Fl
http://www.terrisfight.org/myths.html
MYTH: Terri is PVS (Persistent vegetative state)
FACT: The definition of PVS in Florida Statue 765.101:
Persistent vegetative state means a permanent and irreversible
condition of unconsciousness in which there is:
(a) The absence of voluntary action or cogni
The video clips are very well edited. What they do not show is the
full story. That British Medical Journal article that I cited earlier
had a good diagnosis of the condition
"Patients in a vegetative state seem to be awake with their eyes open
but show no evidence of awareness. They do not intera
Lets see if I can put it in small enough words for you to understand.
The 5 court appointed neurologists agreed that Ms. Shaivo was in a
persistent vegetative state. The AMA and BMA treatement guidelines
state that no recovery is possible if this state lasts more than a
year (AMA says 3 months).
my god I am agreeing with Sam. But yes, I have seen the site and
that's why I say she doesn't look dead to me. I realize that they will
have chosen the clips that support their point but if there are ANY,
if this woman is aware at all, what are the ethics of pulling the
plug? I was not, however, aw
Tell him that's not true.
Since Feb '93 they've been trying to remove him as guardian. Terri was
awarded $1.4 million from a malpractice lawsuit that goes to her
medical care. If she dies her husband inherits what's left, about $1
million.
Ironically, Michael Schiavo never mentioned her so called
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 09:34:38 -0700, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> about a month or two ago? Christmastime? I suppose I could have
> misunderstood, but I don't think so
>
> If they are not willing to pay for her care, the issue in my mind is
> somewhat different. To be blunt, if we are talk
about a month or two ago? Christmastime? I suppose I could have
misunderstood, but I don't think so
If they are not willing to pay for her care, the issue in my mind is
somewhat different. To be blunt, if we are talking public health
dollars, then the issue of triage perhaps should apply, espe
This is then a major policy shift on their part. They had made it clear
numerous times that the care of their daughter was solely Schiavo's
responsibility. They argued that since he took and spent the insurance money,
it was all on his shoulders. They would only take over responsibility if
Schi
In this particular case the parents strike me as truthful and the
husband does not. I have not seen any medical records so perhaps I
would change my mind if I did. In the meantime I think that since
there is doubt as to the woman's wishes the default should be to not
kill her, especially since the
I believe you are mistaken about this. As of very recently they were
saying they knew he had spent the money and were willing to step in. I
think I saw them on Larry King.
Dana
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:42:41 -0500, Jerry Johnson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dana, they aren't willing. They want the
Dana, they aren't willing. They want the husband to bear the cost and
responsibility.
Jerry Johnson
Web Developer
Dolan Media Company
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/25/05 03:10PM >>>
She doesn't look dead to me. And if her parents are willing to take
care of her then let them.
~
aster
504.832.9835
SunShine Pages by EATEL
www.sunshinepages.com
-Original Message-
From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 1:11 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Supreme Court refuses to hear Shiavo case
exactly. While not in writing, it was clear that sh
She is in what is called a persitent vegitative state. Minimal brain
wave function, about the same about you'd get if you put a bowl of
jello on the eeg and put the electrodes on it. According to the
released medical records a CAT scan and MRI showed significant
deterioration in the cerebral cortex
She doesn't look dead to me. And if her parents are willing to take
care of her then let them.
Dana
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:04:51 -0500, Larry C. Lyons
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So you support Jeb Bush's intervention in the case then I take it.
> Failing that do you think that brain dead indiv
y EATEL
> > > www.sunshinepages.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Marlon Moyer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 1:00 PM
> > > To: CF-Community
> > >
> > > Subjec
es by EATEL
www.sunshinepages.com
-Original Message-
From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 1:40 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Supreme Court refuses to hear Shiavo case
[snip]
Moreover the right to life movement is also trying to squash this so
> If there is a written advance directive that's a whole other story.
> Frankly this whole case is a poster child for making sure you have
> one. And btw mine says lets be damned sure I will never get better
> before you pull any plugs. But if I definitely wont then by all means
> let's choose the
If there is a written advance directive that's a whole other story.
Frankly this whole case is a poster child for making sure you have
one. And btw mine says lets be damned sure I will never get better
before you pull any plugs. But if I definitely wont then by all means
let's choose the least mess
> SunShine Pages by EATEL
> > www.sunshinepages.com
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-----
> > From: Marlon Moyer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 1:00 PM
> > To: CF-Community
> >
> > Subject: RE: Supreme Court refus
In the law, spouces have more say than the person's parents in cases like this.
And no the right to die has not established. This sort of case happens
on a regular basis. Four years ago there was a similar case here in
this part of Virginia, where a brain dead man's life was needlessly
prolonged b
nt: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 1:25 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Supreme Court refuses to hear Shiavo case
But doesn't this become a case of husband vs. parents, not necessarily
life
vs. death? I mean, shouldn't a judge decide who gets to make the
decision,
as opposed to what the
But doesn't this become a case of husband vs. parents, not necessarily life
vs. death? I mean, shouldn't a judge decide who gets to make the decision,
as opposed to what the decision should be?
After all, hasn't the right to die been pretty well established?
> exactly. While not in writing, it
.832.9835
> SunShine Pages by EATEL
> www.sunshinepages.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Marlon Moyer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 1:00 PM
> To: CF-Community
>
> Subject: RE: Supreme Court refuses to hear Shiavo case
>
> Well, I wo
]
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 1:00 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Supreme Court refuses to hear Shiavo case
Well, I wonder if there's room for the administration to step in and
keep
the feeding tube. If there is, I'm sure they'll try it.
> -Original Message-
>
Well, I wonder if there's room for the administration to step in and keep
the feeding tube. If there is, I'm sure they'll try it.
> -Original Message-
> From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 12:07 PM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Supreme Court r
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