I'm not wanting to point the finger at anyone in particular, but I'm
always astonished at how many people talk about new software products,
without ever saying what it actually DOES!
For example (and its only one example of a great many!), FLEX was out
for months and months before I could persuad
Hear hear!
But... in this kind of forum.. (or maybe I am getting it mixed up with
the CMS one) I wouldnt like everyone telling me about
in great detail unless I asked specificlly. There are a number of
commercial and non comercial products being developed by people in
this list and it would just
It's always amazing to me to see how much common courtesy gets violently
flung out the window in an online environment. Instead of saying "I
disagree with that comment, here's why..." You say, "what a stupid rant".
Clearly, if someone disagrees with anything that you believe, they must
be "stup
Hello Micha,
I guess you didnt read what I wrote at all.
On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:59:59 +0100, Micha Schopman
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sorry to say, but what a stupid rant.. right now you are saying actually
> all the companies making money with Microsoft products or adapting their
> busines
Sorry to say, but what a stupid rant.. right now you are saying actually
all the companies making money with Microsoft products or adapting their
business strategy based on a Microsoft roadmap are plain silly. There
hasn't been a single product communicated by Microsoft for which it was
unclear wha
> And i wasn't taking a swipe at PLUM especially. It's very common. I
> think the people working on a project get so close to it, they forget
> that there'll be lots of people who dont know what it is.
Yeah, you're right, Mike.
I especially liked your description of the CRM bit. I almost thin
Gmail keeps the thread emails forever so when you click on the title
of a list email you see the whole thread, which is really awesome to
get some context. Want a gmail account?
Let me know if you want one I have lots just sitting here.
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 02:41:30 +1100, Mike Kear <[EMAIL PROTE
> Another example: I've been hearing about PLUM for ages, but I never
> saw anyone saying what it DOES. I had to go to the PLUM site before
> I found a statement saying what it is. And that was against my
> better judgement. If it's too much trouble for the PLUM team to say
> what it's for, wh
Adam, that looks pretty good to me. If i'd seen it (and i know this
will shock some listers, but I dont get time to read every post) I'd
have thought that's enough to warrant my investing some time in
finding out more.
And as you say, none of us wants to turn this list into an
advertising/spamming
>Another example: I've been hearing about PLUM for ages, but I never
>saw anyone saying what it DOES. I had to go to the PLUM site before
>I found a statement saying what it is. And that was against my
>better judgement. If it's too much trouble for the PLUM team to say
>what it's for, why sho
Dan, I get abour 800 emails a day. Probably 2/3 of them have links
in them. I just dont click on links in emails unless there is a
reason. Forgetting the spam, if I went and looked at all those sites,
I would never get any work done. I'm not unique here. Most of us
have more email in a day th
Another thought is hey I might not know what it is or does. If that is the case
I probably am not the person responsible for those funcitons. However, if the
marketing guys did a little better job telling me what it is or does I would be
more likely to forward it to the proper personal. Right
> To be honest, I've visited the Plum site and I still don't really
> understand what it actually does. It doesn't sound like it supports
> any of the standard frameworks and it doesn't work on Mac or Linux it
> seems.
The Plum Framework is intended to become a standard framework for ColdFusion
de
On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 20:20:28 -0500, Adam Churvis
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The Plum Framework is intended to become a standard framework for ColdFusion
> development. It's a rich framework that contains many useful services and
> reusable code libraries.
So in addition to being a Windows-only
> So in addition to being a Windows-only IDE, it's also a competing
> framework to Fusebox, Mach II, onTap and so on?
>
> Is the Plum framework usable separately? Is it documented separately?
It sounds like you're trying to make the fact that we have a new framework
for ColdFusion developers sound
Fair enough, I prefer to have shorter emails with a link if I am
interested in checking it out, I go there. I rarely click on any link
unless it is from a trusted list such as this and the subject
interests me.
Dan
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:44:12 +1100, Mike Kear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dan, I
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:42:19 -0500, Adam Churvis
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It sounds like you're trying to make the fact that we have a new framework
> for ColdFusion developers sound like a negative thing.
Not at all, just trying to get a clear picture in my head about Plum
since I can't test
> OK. So the Plum IDE can't support those other frameworks? What about
> the Plum framework? Can it be used separately?
It's not that the Plum IDE *can't* support those other frameworks, Sean; the
Plum IDE was designed to be intimately integrated with the Plum Framework
only. Other frameworks hav
maybe we need to get mike D to start a CF-Argument list, eh? j/k
I've looked at the docs for PLUM, haven't had the time to do the beta
thing though. I actually ust pitched it to my boss and team yesterday
during a short chat about using code gen tools. It seems to me that
PLUM is basically a co
> I've looked at the docs for PLUM, haven't had the time to do the beta
> thing though. I actually ust pitched it to my boss and team yesterday
> during a short chat about using code gen tools. It seems to me that
> PLUM is basically a code gen tool. Kind of like the Interactonline
> DWMX extens
the troubleshooter on the site aint bad either. Answered MY question anyway.
Dana
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:29:49 -0500, Douglas Knudsen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ah, kewl. Hmmm, maybe a new acronym is in order then? :) PLUM is on
> my list of things to get to after the new year.
>
> Yeah, m
So is the onTap framework (free that is) -- which does most of what
PLUM does and some things PLUM doesn't do... it doesn't have an IDE...
and in looking at the feature list for PLUM it seemed to me like many
of features mentioned that aren't currently core in the onTap
framework could be implement
Thank you Spike!
This one post has given me more insight into Plum than anything posted
so far and more than anything on the website.
It will also give me a context for the generated code that someone was
kind enough to send me as an example...
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:10:45 -0800, Spike <[EMAIL P
> So is the onTap framework (free that is) -- which does most of what
> PLUM does and some things PLUM doesn't do...
onTap doesn't do most of what Plum does by a long shot, and the things that
onTap does that Plum doesn't do, we don't want Plum to do.
> and in looking at the feature list for PLUM
Hey all,
I gave myself a quick tour of Plum earlier today and blogged it, with
a quick look at features, architecture, etc. Full post at
http://www.clearsoftware.net/client/index.cfm?mode=entry&entry=D88E6D1E-E081-2BAC-698D354A075833D4
-joe
--
For Tabs, Trees, and more, use the jComponents:
ht
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:56:26 -0500, Adam Churvis
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I noticed that you have not requested a Beta License Key to try Plum yet,
> Sean.
When you have a version that will install on non-Windows platforms,
I'll look at it - I don't have a Windows machine to try it on.
> I ha
>Go ahead and try to add to onTap everything that Plum does now, then tell me
>just how many "minutes" it took you.
Used to be you had to say 'fusebox' to get a fistfight started. Now
its just "framework".
--
--Matt Robertson--
President, Janitor
MSB Designs, Inc.
mysecretbase.com
I haven't had a chance to play with PLUM yet, but I play to try it out
soon. However, I did want to come out and thank Adam and David (and
anyone else who helped) for what is clearly a huge amount of effort.
It's easy for people to get worked up about the details of how it
works, or what frameworks
>> So is the onTap framework (free that is) -- which does most of what
>> PLUM does and some things PLUM doesn't do...
>
>onTap doesn't do most of what Plum does by a long shot,
>and the things that onTap does that Plum doesn't do,
>we don't want Plum to do.
Internationalization? ... I didn't see
> Point Plum to your database and generate code (this would take a bit
longer but wouldn't be difficult by any stretch of the imagination).
*snip!*
That list I just snipped was pretty long. Since it only takes moments, just
do it! Until you do, you're all talk and no action.
> Likely this has
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Adam Churvis
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 10:11 PM
>> To: CF-Talk
>> Subject: Re: BUT what does it &@#$%^ DO?
>>
>> > Point Plum to your database and generate
&g
> Excuse me? That's described on the What Plum Can Do Page...
> to quote:
*snip!*
The IDE isn't a visual IDE, which Dreamweaver is. And the diagramming
technique is just that -- a technique. You can implement it with a #2
pencil and an 11 x 17 piece of paper. From the Plum help:
---
Diagrammi
>> Excuse me? That's described on the What Plum Can Do
>> Page... to quote:
> *snip!*
> The IDE isn't a visual IDE, which Dreamweaver is. And the
> diagramming
> technique is just that -- a technique. You can implement
> it with a #2
> pencil and an 11 x 17 piece of paper. From the Plum help:
> -Original Message-
> From: Adam Churvis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 1:10 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: BUT what does it &@#$%^ DO?
>
> > For the record I'm
> > sure PLUM is good. I really never intended to o
What kind of install is Plum? Does the install leave you with a simple
exe or does it sink its hooks into the registery and other places? I'd
like to look at it, but I don't want to have a lot of material left
behind if I decide to uninstall.
J
I'm bored of thisCF-Community anyone?
-Original Message-
From: Joe Rinehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 16 December 2004 14:58
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: BUT what does it &@#$%^ DO?
Plum can be uninstalled through Add / Remove programs. Not sure what
it leaves behi
>
http://www.productivityenhancement.com/plum/PlumDetail.cfm?id=diagrammingss
I just added this:
"While the Plum IDE doesn't contain a diagramming tool of its own, Plum
Diagrams are easily created using any flowcharting tool from a #2 pencil to
Visio Enterprise -- use the tool of your choice."
I
ursday, December 16, 2004 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: BUT what does it &@#$%^ DO?
> Plum can be uninstalled through Add / Remove programs. Not sure what
> it leaves behind...Adam?
>
> -joe
>
>
> On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 09:26:58 -0500, Jerry Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wro
to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 16 December 2004 14:58
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: BUT what does it &@#$%^ DO?
>
> Plum can be uninstalled through Add / Remove programs. Not sure what
> it leaves behind...Adam?
>
> -joe
>
> On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 09:26:58 -0500, Jerr
Cool. Thanks for the info.
J
-Original Message-
From: Adam Churvis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 10:35 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: BUT what does it &@#$%^ DO?
Plum installation / uninstallation shouldn't mess with the Registry at
all.
Plu
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:29:51 -0500, Adam Churvis
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "While the Plum IDE doesn't contain a diagramming tool of its own, Plum
> Diagrams are easily created using any flowcharting tool from a #2 pencil to
> Visio Enterprise -- use the tool of your choice."
That helps, yes. T
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:13:35 -0500, S. Isaac Dealey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So is the onTap framework (free that is) -- which does most of what
> PLUM does and some things PLUM doesn't do... it doesn't have an IDE...
> and in looking at the feature list for PLUM it seemed to me like many
> of
plum makes that .net junk program will brought up look like
Hey hey! Go easy on me here!
:)
~|
Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net
http://www.cfhosting.net
Message: http://www.houseoffu
> On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:13:35 -0500, S. Isaac Dealey
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> So is the onTap framework (free that is) -- which does
>> most of what
>> PLUM does and some things PLUM doesn't do... it doesn't
>> have an IDE...
>> and in looking at the feature list for PLUM it seemed to
>> me
You made a rediculous, uninformed, commentary about PLUM, in a veiled
attempt to promote you're "Framework". I think you need to "Get Over
Yourself" as you put it. Dan is a skilled IT professional as is Adam.
You really should apologize to them.
Greg
On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 02:27:23 -0500, S. Isaac D
Luce [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 17 December 2004 17:27
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: BUT what does it &@#$%^ DO?
You made a rediculous, uninformed, commentary about PLUM, in a veiled
attempt to promote you're "Framework". I think you need to "Get Over
Yourself" as
Adam,
Few years back some of my business friends started asking me whether
they should go "urp" or not. Didn't have the faintest idea what they
were talking about.
Then I was watching CNN one nigt and there was some software vendor
loudly proclaiming that if you didn't get an ERP system this ins
in the case of plum, i think mike just missed it a few times but its also still
in beta and knowing how good of a job adam & david do, im sure they will be
making u fully aware upon public release (which is very very soon)
plum makes that .net junk program will brought up look like
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:44:12 +1100, Mike Kear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I didnt see the statement about what Plum does. After that, there was
> a lot of noise about Plum but very little about what its for. I've
> seen lots of emails about Plum on this list, but because it wasnt
> about anythin
ah, kewl. Hmmm, maybe a new acronym is in order then? :) PLUM is on
my list of things to get to after the new year.
Yeah, my jaw was ajar when I saw 'free'.
Doug
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 15:27:47 -0500, Adam Churvis
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I've looked at the docs for PLUM, haven't had the
I've downloaded and installed Plum and I'm still not really sure what
type of audience it is aimed at.
There is quite a lot of configuration work up front to set up a project
and ensure that Plum knows all about the ColdFusion, Web server and
Database. Once you've got your project set up Plu
Spike,
Thanks for your input. I'd like to address your issues.
> There is quite a lot of configuration work up front to set up a project
>and ensure that Plum knows all about the ColdFusion, Web server and
> Database.
Any application will eventually need all this information. Plum just
col
Adam Churvis wrote:
> Spike,
>
> Thanks for your input. I'd like to address your issues.
>
>
>>There is quite a lot of configuration work up front to set up a project
>> and ensure that Plum knows all about the ColdFusion, Web server and
>>Database.
>
>
> Any application will eventually nee
> You haven't really looked into Plum at all
> -- there *is* no visual IDE or diagramming tool!
Excuse me? That's described on the What Plum Can Do Page...
to quote:
Point Plum to your database and generate code
The Plum IDE is a standalone Windows desktop application that
> -Original Message-
> From: Adam Churvis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 10:11 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: BUT what does it &@#$%^ DO?
>
> > Point Plum to your database and generate code (this would take a bit
> long
> When did I quote implementation times for a diagramming tool /
> technique?
I was referring to the whole "This should only take a minute or two... this
should only take a few moments..." bit. You have no earthly idea how long
it would take to implement the details of those Plum features based o
I have a belly button
--
~The cfml plug-in for eclipse~
http://cfeclipse.tigris.org
~open source xslt IDE~
http://treebeard.sourceforge.net
~open source XML database~
http://ashpool.sourceforge.net
~|
Special thanks to the CF C
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 22:21:24 -0800, Rob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have a belly button
>
>
Interesting revellation Rob. Did you just discover this? or has it
been so long since you looked down you had forgotten it was there?
--
Cheers
Mike Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
AFP Webworks
http:/
> -Original Message-
> From: Rob [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 1:21 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: BUT what does it &@#$%^ DO?
>
> I have a belly button
Wow Rob - if you think THAT'S great, wait until you discover what
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:38:08 -0500, S. Isaac Dealey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> When did I quote implementation times for a diagramming tool /
> technique? Fine if the What Plum Can Do Page is unclear -- it's
> unclear -- it gives the appearance that there is a visio-esque
> diagramming IDE includ
Plum can be uninstalled through Add / Remove programs. Not sure what
it leaves behind...Adam?
-joe
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 09:26:58 -0500, Jerry Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What kind of install is Plum? Does the install leave you with a simple
> exe or does it sink its hooks into the regis
> Why is it ever inappropriate to comment on something you've read Dan?
When you are plugging your own product simultaneously and make they
type of comments you made such as how simple it would be to add the
functionality that PLUM posses.
Dan
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