Gil Hamilton wrote:
>
> F. Marc de Piolenc forwards:
>
> >Among the Bourgeoisophobes
> >Why the Europeans and Arabs, each in their own way, hate America and
> >Israel.
> >
> >http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/102gwtnf.asp
>
> It may be true that they hate fre
On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 12:48 PM, A. Melon wrote:
> Tim May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 06:59 AM, Mike Rosing wrote:
>>> But the reason we have AC today is because Tesla requested no
>>> royalties on his motor/generator. Something for Brands to think
>
On 12 Apr 2002 at 0:38, Adam Back wrote:
> I was suggesting that the ecash mint operator exchange ecash directly
> for Everquest currency (virtual "platinum pieces"). The Everquest VR
> is a place in cyberspace, and there are people who make their living
> by trading and selling virtual artifact
Vanguard of the Revolution
http://www.theVanguard.org
LADY THATCHER'S VALEDICTORY
by
Rod D. Martin, 10 April 2002
At the end of March, just before announcing she would never again speak in
public, Margaret Thatcher capped off her remarkable career with the Times
serialization of her new book St
I just wrote:
> If they grew large enough their acceptance, or an ecash system backed
> in them, might spill over into the real world and allow purchase of
> services on the web, or even physical goods.
To be more concrete: there are already apparently e-gold backed credit
cards. So why not Ever
On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 10:29:39AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
> On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 06:37 AM, Adam Back wrote:
> > - deployment / chicken and egg problem (merchants want lots of users
> > before they're interested users want wide merchant acceptance before
> > their interested)
>
> As I h
At 10:57 AM 4/11/2002 -0400, Adam Shostack wrote:
>Thus, ecash deployment is a 3 party problem, where most new
>technologies that succeed are not.
Actually, it is worse than this.
Credit cards are a four party transaction. Mostly for historical reasons, but
still, the customer's card is present
> Changing "trust" to "believe" advances the discussion not one whit.
> Alice trusts Bob to sign keys accurately; Alice believes that Bob signs
> keys accurately. The change doesn't add anything.
Belief is a physiological phenomenon that makes one accept otherwise silly
concepts in order to be u
On 11 Apr 2002 at 12:48, A. Melon wrote:
> Tim May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 06:59 AM, Mike Rosing wrote:
> > > But the reason we have AC today is because Tesla requested no
> > > royalties on his motor/generator. Something for Brands to think
> > > about.
>
[Ed: will these building-owners sue Steve Mann when he wears his goggles
which eliminate
advertising? ]
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAJW671XZC.html
NEW YORK (AP) - The owners of several Times Square buildings have filed
a lawsuit against the makers of the upcoming "Spider-Man" movie for
digita
At 01:43 AM 4/11/2002 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
>On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Pat Farrell wrote:
>> Banks exchange bits thru the ACH networks based on
>> a belief that their exchange is valid.
>
>No, they exchange bits based on a very expensive and complicated protocol
>that has a variety of safe guards bu
On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Tim May wrote:
>> How come? True, if a bill is idealized as being planar, you'll have
>> trouble on the plane. Spatial diversity will take care of that.
>> Otherwise, a common note has plenty of surface to do your thing on.
>> Especially at higher frequencies, like UHF and be
[We can propable expect a new Operation Northwoods from Kagan, et al soon]
>Frederick Kagan, a historian at the US Military Academy,
argued in a talk recently that the US needs to:
>More than double its defense expenditures;
>Ignore the Europeans and other allies due to their military
ineffec
At 8:30 AM +0200 on 4/11/02, Anonymous exfumed out of Vienna again:
> [By forwarding this mail to the DBS list,
Done...
> Robert Hettinga agrees that
> he is an arrogant,
Check...
> obnoxious,
Check...
> power-hungry
Check...
> asshole
Now yew wait jes' a gol'darn minute, here,
pardne
"Trei, Peter" wrote:
[...snip...]
what you said is all true but the benefit (as you pointed out) is
primarily to the retailer, not the shopper. All this doesn't apply to
higher-value transactions of course.
> Ken, when was the last time you paid for a call from a UK
> public phone with coins?
>
On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Nomen Nescio wrote:
> Changing "trust" to "believe" advances the discussion not one whit.
> Alice trusts Bob to sign keys accurately; Alice believes that Bob signs
> keys accurately. The change doesn't add anything.
>
> In fact if anything it's a step backwards. Trust is a
Frederick Kagan spoke at the Princeton Club, New York City,
Tuesday evening, April 9, 2002.
http://www.princetonclub.com
American Heritage Lecture Series -- Special Guest
Frederick W. Kagan
After September 11: Terrorism and the Enduring Bases of
American Defense Strategy
Details:
Join us f
Tim May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 06:59 AM, Mike Rosing wrote:
> > But the reason we have AC today is because Tesla requested no
> > royalties on his motor/generator. Something for Brands to think
> > about.
>
> No, we have AC because AC works better than DC i
Changing "trust" to "believe" advances the discussion not one whit.
Alice trusts Bob to sign keys accurately; Alice believes that Bob signs
keys accurately. The change doesn't add anything.
In fact if anything it's a step backwards. Trust is a specific form of
belief; it is a belief on which th
Can you give a cite?
Peter Trei
> --
> From: John Young[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 5:10 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Among the Bourgeoisophobes
>
> Frederick Kagan, a historian at the US Military Academy,
> argued in a tal
> The fact that it hasn't worked out as well as it might is a testament to
> just how strong our ape legacy is: the weak and stupid are at the mercy of
the
> strong and cunning and always will be. Here there and everywhere, from
Dumbiosity on the rise.
Weak and stupid is a universal losing prepo
Frederick Kagan, a historian at the US Military Academy,
argued in a talk recently that the US needs to:
More than double its defense expenditures;
Ignore the Europeans and other allies due to their military
ineffectuality and insufficient defense budgets;
Prepare for long-term US military do
On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Eugen Leitl wrote:
> I could imagine airlines screening for this, though, as a big RFID splash
> would invite you to become a target for "random" searches, and a
> prospective target for confiscation.
Better yet, rather than nuke your rfids, try to extract them out of the
cu
> (If there is a "cp movement", it is the raising of the middle finger
> above the closed fist, in the direction of oppression.)
http://www.lemuria.org/DeArt/Sep/001.gif
=
end
(of original message)
Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows:
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with Tu
Quoth Bill:
>At 06:53 PM 04/10/2002 -0700, and a number of other times, Tim May
wrote:
>>--Tim May
>>"Dogs can't conceive of a group of cats without an alpha cat."
--David
>>Honig, on the Cypherpunks list, 2001-11
> I've got three cats, and one of them very definitely is the alpha cat.
You me
On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 07:07 AM, Trei, Peter wrote:
> [1. Agreed, this thread has lost steam.
> 2. It always amazes me how often people on this list will handwave and
> speculate on subjects which a few minutes with Google will settle. Too
> often, we're like the medieval academics who
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Someone wrote:
>The actual meaning, less succintly phrased, is that those who define
>themselves by their position in a hierarchical organizational chart cannot
>conceive of a social structure (such as a discussion group) which is without a
>leader.
On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 06:59 AM, Mike Rosing wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Adam Back wrote:
>
>> Well I also am pretty anti-patent, especially the xor-cursor and
>> business process kind, but at least these ecash patents are not
>> frivolous patents (well Chaum's RSA blinding online sch
[Digital Bearer Settlement <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> address removed.]
On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 06:37 AM, Adam Back wrote:
> New thread about deployment barriers to explore the topic of whether
> there are now more internet services and technologies that would allow
> us to get closer to depl
> --
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 11:24 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Detectable cash notes a fantasy
>
> > Go and read 'Repent Harlequin! Cried the Tick-Tock Man' by PK Dick for a
> > particularly s
F. Marc de Piolenc forwards:
>Among the Bourgeoisophobes
>Why the Europeans and Arabs, each in their own way, hate America and
>Israel.
>
>http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/102gwtnf.asp
While it drops off into a bit of jingoism near the end, the first three
quar
At 01:14 AM 4/12/2002 +1000, Julian Assange wrote:
> > Patent's aren't the problem - price of royalty is. If Brands is willing
>
>No Patents are a problem. The total future cost, including the
>costs of all license negotiations and compliance burdens are
>unpredictable and consequently do not mak
> Go and read 'Repent Harlequin! Cried the Tick-Tock Man' by PK Dick for a
> particularly slackless society with this technology.
Might be easier to find if you substitute Harlan Ellison as the author, though.
- Sten
> Eugen Leitl[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
>
> Remember that original issue was reading the embedded RFID in a stack of
> bills from across the room with a portable reader. A possibly shielded
> stack of bills.
>
> The FAQ you cited says 60 RFID tags/s reader speed under optimal
> consitions (
> Patent's aren't the problem - price of royalty is. If Brands is willing
No Patents are a problem. The total future cost, including the
costs of all license negotiations and compliance burdens are
unpredictable and consequently do not make a wise investment.
Futher, companies view patent licen
Among the Bourgeoisophobes
Why the Europeans and Arabs, each in their own way, hate America and
Israel.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/102gwtnf.asp
--
Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
> Ken Brown[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>
> Anyway, no-one has yet come up with a convincing reason for me to want
> to carry any kind of electronic wallet for small transactions. Anything
> under, say, 50 dollars American, is more easily done in physical cash
> money. If nothing else the irritatio
On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Trei, Peter wrote:
> 2. It always amazes me how often people on this list will handwave and
> speculate on subjects which a few minutes with Google will settle. Too
I prefer physics to Google any time to settle an issue. Physics and Google
would seem to disagree on Digital
On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 02:37:50PM +0100, Adam Back wrote:
| - deployment / chicken and egg problem (merchants want lots of users
| before they're interested users want wide merchant acceptance before
| their interested)
I think its worse than that. The normal technology adoption curve is
that y
On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Adam Back wrote:
> Well I also am pretty anti-patent, especially the xor-cursor and
> business process kind, but at least these ecash patents are not
> frivolous patents (well Chaum's RSA blinding online scheme may look
> pretty simple once you've seen it but Brands stuff is
> Eugen Leitl[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>
>
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Tim May wrote:
>
> > How come? Because I am assuming the transponders are in the same
> > position on each bill. If you want to posit some "spatial diversity"
> > model, that helps, but not but a huge amount. This sounds too sci
The Dartmouth site is related to a broader federal PKI Technical
Working Group which is developing PKI standards and protocols.
See:
http://csrc.nist.gov/pki/twg/welcome.html
Below are two recent messages from the PKI-TWG mail list
on some of the work being done.
Subscribe to the PKI-TWG ma
New thread about deployment barriers to explore the topic of whether
there are now more internet services and technologies that would allow
us to get closer to deployment of ecash. (It would be about time
you'd think).
On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 08:30:07AM +0200, Anonymous wrote:
> [...]
> Of cours
On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 08:30:07AM +0200, Anonymous wrote:
> > > Are you saying that if Alice pays Bob, he can anonymously exchange the
> > > coins and end up with new fresh coins with ALICE's identity in them?
> > > That's great, he can double spend all he wants and she ends up going
> > > to the
On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 06:41:52PM -0700, Mike Rosing wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Adam Back wrote:
> > btw I did a google search for PKILAB and Brands to see if I could find
> > anything along the lines you mention and look what it said:
> >
> > Mar 2001 "Welcome Stefan Brands to PKILabs Adviso
On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 04:24 AM, Ken Brown wrote:
> For some reason the mention of a "Susan B Anthony" dollar stuck in my
> brain as an "Alice B Sheldon" dollar. Susan Anthony is a person who I've
> never heard of. I'm almost tempted not to find out who she is or was to
> preserve a nug
On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Tim May wrote:
> How come? Because I am assuming the transponders are in the same
> position on each bill. If you want to posit some "spatial diversity"
> model, that helps, but not but a huge amount. This sounds too science
> fictionish to actually deploy (transponders are
SF Bay Area Cypherpunks April 2002 Physical Meeting Announcement
Sorry for the triskadekaphobia - Saturday is of course the 13th of April 2002.
General Info:
DATE: Saturday 13 April 2002
TIME: 12:00 - 5:00 PM (Pacific Time)
PLACE: Boalt Hall Rm. 140
Bancroft & Piedmont
Ber
SF Bay Area Cypherpunks April 2002 Physical Meeting Announcement
General Info:
DATE: Saturday 12 April 2002
TIME: 12:00 - 5:00 PM (Pacific Time)
PLACE: Boalt Hall Rm. 140
Bancroft & Piedmont
Berkeley
Agenda:"Our agenda is a widely-held secret."
As usual, this is an "Op
For some reason the mention of a "Susan B Anthony" dollar stuck in my
brain as an "Alice B Sheldon" dollar. Susan Anthony is a person who I've
never heard of. I'm almost tempted not to find out who she is or was to
preserve a nugget of delicious cognitive dissonance. A world in which
governments p
At 06:53 PM 04/10/2002 -0700, and a number of other times, Tim May wrote:
>--Tim May
>"Dogs can't conceive of a group of cats without an alpha cat." --David
>Honig, on the Cypherpunks list, 2001-11
I've got three cats, and one of them very definitely is the alpha cat.
On the other hand, there's
>>Further, placing the notes in a simple aluminum foil pouch, or a
wallet > with equivalent lining, would cut any detectable signals by maybe
30-50 > dB. > Most people don't, and won't do this. You may not worry about
the sheeple, but I do.<<
Where does this corporado PIG FUCKING PIECE OF SHI
On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Pat Farrell wrote:
> Alice trusts money because she can get ice cream cones.
Incorrect, she trusts money because she knows the vendor trusts the money.
Why? Because they are members in a large (reasonably) stable environment
with (relatively) low threat percentages. If it's
At 07:29 PM 4/10/2002 -0700, Tim May wrote:
>How do we trust bits to represent money?
>I argue that the question is, as stated, not well-grounded at this time.
I agree.
It is interesting to be back on cypherpunks after a five or more year vacation,
only to find most of the same discussions we h
[By forwarding this mail to the DBS list, Robert Hettinga agrees that
he is an arrogant, obnoxious, power-hungry asshole with no moral
integrity whatsoever.]
Adam Back wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 06:17:06PM +0200, Anonymous wrote:
> > And second, because the deposit is unlinkable to the wi
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Tim wrote:
Faustine wrote:
> If, when I came here, I had made the deliberate choice to make an
> effort at "getting along" by emphasizing our similarities instead of
> differences, I dare say the motivation to dissect-and-destroy every last
> comment
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