Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> Here are three more data points.
>>
>>* Emacs - 41 CVEs since 2000 [1]
>>* Vi - 61 CVEs since 1999 [2]
>>* Vim - 656 CVEs since 2001 [3]
>>
>> I'm not sure how many CVEs overlap for Vim due to Vi.
>
> I don't know what the number of CVEs tells us about
> a proj
Celejar wrote:
>> I agree but I think maybe the success of Python, and its
>> development speed, is actually because of some of that
>> rigidness, yes, including the whitespace lack of freedom.
>
> I'm no great programmer, and many posters in this thread are
> cert
On Sat, 8 Apr 2023 Emanuel Berg wrote:
Tom Dial wrote:
Look at the use of parentheses in Lisp [...]
I have thought about that - is Lisp possible without them?
But how do you then know priority? I'm sure someone tried
to get rid of them, but how?
Its quite a few years since I had anything to
debian-user wrote:
> But cropping and ignoring the actual point of Stefan's mail
> rather misses the point and insults him.
Those don't work on him anyway :)
--
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal
Greg Wooledge wrote:
> The word "via" appears in all three of your selections.
> That makes me think that the web site is using some kind of
> a "close-enough match" heuristic, and is (unhelpfully)
> matching "via" as close enough to "vim".
It's called the typographic attack vector ...
--
under
Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> The Vim folks had a bad week this week:
> https://ubuntu.com/security/notices/USN-5995-1 . There were
> 30 CVEs fixed this week.
What's the deal with that LOL :)
--
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal
Tom Dial wrote:
>>> Look at the use of parentheses in Lisp [...]
>>>
>> I have thought about that - is Lisp possible without them?
>> But how do you then know priority? I'm sure someone tried
>> to get rid of them, but how?
>
> Its quite a few years since I had anything to do with Lisp,
> and even
maybe sometime in June as
I expect to have more free time after April 18 (but probably won't have that
free time :-(
--
rhk
(sig revised 20230312 -- modified first paragraph, some other irrelevant
wordsmithing)
| No entity has permission to use this email to tra
Tom Dial wrote:
>>> Look at the use of parentheses in Lisp [...]
>>
>> I have thought about that - is Lisp possible without them?
>> But how do you then know priority? I'm sure someone tried
>> to get rid of them, but how?
>
> Its quite a few years since I had anything to do with Lisp,
> and even
Joel Roth wrote:
> There is a new object system being cooked up, based on
> decades of experience with OO in perl and other languages.
>
> There is already more than enough OO goodness for me to get
> my work done :-)
Guys, word on the street the former OO guys at C++ don't speak
of OO anymore, b
Eduard Bloch wrote:
> I don't think so, Sir! Python has certain advantages but the
> "meaningful whitespace" is IMHO not one of them.
>
> That said, I have been an active Perl user ~20y ago
My rule is a couple of weeks is enough to get "damaged" from
it, some of that damage is good to have tho ..
short sh script that pipes
>>> file's output to one perl invocation.)
>>
> [trimmed: performance data]
>> whole files are in cache so no io for both. but you count
>> links, remember /(s)bin can be now a link to /usr/(s)bin
>
> It took me a while to fully appr
resource hogs known in the world of languages.
>>
>> What, how do they know that, they do the same computation and
>> count CPU instructions? LOL
>
> Benchmarking an entire language is not exactly a trivial
> undertaking, nor is it entirely a sensible statement to
> ma
it was fun fiddling with awk, sed, perl ...
Ha, right, let me look that up, 2 instances ...
perl -e '1 while 1'
What's that's suppose to mean? This file:
https://dataswamp.org/~incal/conf/.zsh/cpu
And exact same line here (last).
Ah, it's like to stress the processor
On Sat, Apr 08, 2023 at 02:57:42PM +0200, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> Thomas Schmitt wrote:
>
> >>> I am surprised this thread has not started
> >>> a mini-flame war.
> >>
> >> We are working on it ...
> >
> > Maybe i can help by stating that Perl and Python are among
> > the largest resource hogs known
how do they know that, they do the same computation and
count CPU instructions? LOL
No, tell me ... it's interesting.
--
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal
tomas wrote:
>> Put it this way, a novice Python programmer can do more in
>> Python than the novice Lisp programmer can do in Lisp, or,
>> if you will, the same in less time.
>
> I've seen people cutting off part of a door with a bread knife.
>
> If you measure a tool by what a novice can achieve
orst have a short
sh script that pipes file's output to one perl invocation.)
[trimmed: performance data]
whole files are in cache so no io for both.
but you count links, remember /(s)bin can be now a link to /usr/(s)bin
It took me a while to fully appreciate this observation.
Calling
ng sometimes. It's especially annoying because you can observe
that the shell already *has* code to create temporary files (it uses
them for << and <<< for example), but doesn't let *you* use that code
on demand.
I believe Nicolas is saying that in zsh, <(...) is ALW
to...@tuxteam.de (12023-04-05):
> It does have <(...), too.
<(…) and >(…) are quite common, =(…) is significantly rarer.
Regards,
--
Nicolas George
On Wed, Apr 05, 2023 at 01:37:31PM +0200, Nicolas George wrote:
> Greg Wooledge (12023-04-05):
> > bash has that, too -- you just have to enable it (shopt -s globstar),
> > as it's not enabled by default.
>
> Ah, bash has recursive globbing, that is good to know. It does not have
> glob qualifiers
Greg Wooledge (12023-04-05):
> bash has that, too -- you just have to enable it (shopt -s globstar),
> as it's not enabled by default.
Ah, bash has recursive globbing, that is good to know. It does not have
glob qualifiers nor temp file process substitution, AFAICS, though.
Glob qualifiers is whe
On Wed, Apr 05, 2023 at 12:01:50PM +0200, Nicolas George wrote:
> 2. If you are relying on nonstandard shell constructs, then go directly
> for zsh and use recursive globbing and glob patterns.
bash has that, too -- you just have to enable it (shopt -s globstar),
as it's not enabled by default.
S
Michael (12023-04-05):
> out of curiosity, why not omit xargs altogether and do someting like:
>
> #!/bin/bash
> [...]
>printf '%s\0' "$d"/*
> done |
>while read -r -d '' line; do
> [...]
>
> or do i miss something?
1. Your script will execute the command once per argument, xargs will
ex
On Wednesday, 5 April 2023 11:48:35 CEST, Michael wrote:
or do i miss something?
yes i did!!!
sorry, please ignore my previous post!
greetings...
On Monday, 3 April 2023 22:03:59 CEST, Greg Wooledge wrote:
With this option, you can supply a stream of NUL-delimited filenames
to xargs -0, and process them safely. No explosions will occur, no matter
what filenames are passed.
out of curiosity, why not omit xargs altogether and do someting
On Mon, 03 Apr 2023 02:15:10 +0200
Emanuel Berg wrote:
...
> I agree but I think maybe the success of Python, and its
> development speed, is actually because of some of that
> rigidness, yes, including the whitespace lack of freedom.
I'm no great programmer, and many posters
Apr 4, 2023, 13:40 by a...@strugglers.net:
> Turns out though ChatGPT is--as virtually all ML code--written
> in Python, that's at least according to Wikipedia and not too
> surprising. There you go. Depending on what you make of it,
> there may not come much after Python
>
I see, thanks.
R
On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 1:37 PM Greg Wooledge wrote:
>
> On Tue, Apr 04, 2023 at 06:29:50PM +0100, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:
> > But cropping and ignoring the actual point of Stefan's mail rather
> > misses the point and insults him. For example, three CVEs chosen at
> > random from the 'vi
On Tue 04 Apr 2023 at 13:37:27 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 04, 2023 at 06:29:50PM +0100, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:
> > But cropping and ignoring the actual point of Stefan's mail rather
> > misses the point and insults him. For example, three CVEs chosen at
> > random from t
On Tue, Apr 04, 2023 at 06:29:50PM +0100, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:
> But cropping and ignoring the actual point of Stefan's mail rather
> misses the point and insults him. For example, three CVEs chosen at
> random from the 'vim' list:
>
> CVE-2010-3481 Multiple SQL injection vuln
Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 9:46 AM Stefan Monnier
> wrote:
> >
> > > Here are three more data points.
> > >
> > >* Emacs - 41 CVEs since 2000 [1]
> > >* Vi - 61 CVEs since 1999 [2]
> > >* Vim - 656 CVEs since 2001 [3]
> > >
> > > I'm not sure how many CVEs overla
On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 9:46 AM Stefan Monnier wrote:
>
> > Here are three more data points.
> >
> >* Emacs - 41 CVEs since 2000 [1]
> >* Vi - 61 CVEs since 1999 [2]
> >* Vim - 656 CVEs since 2001 [3]
> >
> > I'm not sure how many CVEs overlap for Vim due to Vi.
>
> I don't know what th
> Here are three more data points.
>
>* Emacs - 41 CVEs since 2000 [1]
>* Vi - 61 CVEs since 1999 [2]
>* Vim - 656 CVEs since 2001 [3]
>
> I'm not sure how many CVEs overlap for Vim due to Vi.
I don't know what the number of CVEs tells us about a project, but the
above additionally suf
h after Python
I neither know nor care if that assertion is true, because my point
was that the above is a thought experiment in no way applicable to
what started this thread, which was someone asking about what
language a sysadmin of today should learn!
Cheers,
Andy
--
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 1:31 PM Emanuel Berg wrote:
>
> Jeffrey Walton wrote:
>
> >> I saw many commands in /bin and /usr/bin are written by
> >> perl. is perl still the first choice for sysadmin on linux?
> >
> > I am surprised this thread has not started a mini-flame war.
>
> We are working on it
Apr 4, 2023, 00:16 by in...@dataswamp.org:
> Andy Smith wrote:
>
>> The argument being responded to is roughly that "a popular
>> AI coding assistant is written in Python, and Python is
>> a Turing-complete language, therefore there doesn't need to
>> be any programming language other than Python.
On 4/2/23 18:15, Emanuel Berg wrote:
David Christensen wrote:
Look at the use of parentheses in Lisp [...]
I have thought about that - is Lisp possible without them?
But how do you then know priority? I'm sure someone tried to
get rid of them, but how?
Its quite a few years since I had a
ween the Preussian AIs with their mechanical approach vs
the Russian-Mongolian "survival of the fittest" AI attitude.
And it will continue and continue ... until it is totally
unrecognizable from where we are now.
Even in an infinitely distant future, will there be on AI to
rule them all?
method calling with default/optional/... parameters
> - a certain level of rigidness keeps your code understandable even if
> you touch it a year later, and also for the code from your colleagues
> - the uniform usage of certain infrastructure components (like argparse)
> becam
ign which still allows the interpreter to
convert it into something useful in the end. Bad because this happens
and runtime and because there are life-saving type checks and no real
interfaces possible with Python.
CONTRA:
- OOP: ... one MUST keep writing "self." prefix all the ti
ts input into *words*, using any whitespace as delimiters.
Therfore it fails if any of the input filenames contains whitespace.
unicorn:~$ echo /stuff/music/Frank_Zappa/15\ The\ Return\ Of\ The\ Son\ Of\
Monster\ Magnet.mp3 | xargs ls -ld
ls: cannot access '/stuff/music/Frank_Z
splits input into *words*, using any whitespace as delimiters.
Therfore it fails if any of the input filenames contains whitespace.
unicorn:~$ echo /stuff/music/Frank_Zappa/15\ The\ Return\ Of\ The\ Son\ Of\
Monster\ Magnet.mp3 | xargs ls -ld
ls: cannot access '/stuff/music/Frank_Za
On 4/3/23 11:47, Greg Wooledge wrote:
Might be cleaner just to rewrite it from scratch. Especially since
it mixes multiple invocations of perl together with (unsafe!) xargs and
other shell commands
Please clarify "unsafe" and describe "safe" alternative(s).
David
On 4/3/23 10:58, Emanuel Berg wrote:
David Christensen wrote:
# echo $PATH | tr ':' '\n' | perl -MFile::Slurp -ne
'chomp;@e=read_dir($_,prefix=>1); print map "$_\n",@e'|xargs
file|perl -pe 's/\S+\s+//'|grep -v 'symbolic link'|perl -pe
's/, dynamically linked.+//'|sort|uniq -c|sort -
ript that pipes file's output to one perl invocation.)
perl version:
real0m7,666s
user0m2,871s
sys 0m5,054s
bash version:
real0m23,890s
user0m24,476s
sys 0m2,113s
whole files are in cache so no io for both.
but you count links, remember /(s)bin can be now a link to /usr/(s)bin
cl/Tk script, ASCII text executable
1 POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable, with very long lines, with
escape sequences
1 Paul Falstad's zsh script, ASCII text executable
1 Java source, UTF-8 Unicode text
1 ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (GNU/Linux)
1 cannot open `/usr/local/games/*' (No such file or directory)
1 a /usr/bin/env python script executable (binary data)
Le 3 avril 2023 Emanuel Berg a écrit :
> Michel Verdier wrote:
>
>>> I'm still so impressed by this, I tried to run this but it
>>> seems I lack the Slurp module?
>>
>> apt-get install libfile-slurp-perl
>
> Merci :)
>
> Indeed, works!
>
> Okay, forget about the function/script then, I have it and
Hi,
Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> > I am surprised this thread has not started a mini-flame war.
Emanuel Berg wrote:
> We are working on it ...
Maybe i can help by stating that Perl and Python are among the largest
resource hogs known in the world of languages.
https://storage.googleapis.com/cdn.t
Michel Verdier wrote:
>> I'm still so impressed by this, I tried to run this but it
>> seems I lack the Slurp module?
>
> apt-get install libfile-slurp-perl
Merci :)
Indeed, works!
Okay, forget about the function/script then, I have it and it
works :)
--
underground experts united
https://dat
Le 3 avril 2023 Emanuel Berg a écrit :
> I'm still so impressed by this, I tried to run this but it
> seems I lack the Slurp module?
apt-get install libfile-slurp-perl
ysadmin tricks is to generate shell
> commands and run them on remote hosts via SSH. In the past,
> I have installed /bin/bash everywhere to simplify the Perl
> code. My current practice is to keep the shell commands
> simple enough so as to avoid the incompatibilities.
Ah, it is like
On Mon, Apr 03, 2023 at 12:36:51PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 2, 2023 at 4:59 AM wrote:
> >
> > I saw many commands in /bin and /usr/bin are written by perl.
> > is perl still the first choice for sysadmin on linux?
>
> I am surprised this thread has not started a mini-flame war.
debian-user wrote:
> Ah no, that one's easy to answer - vi is what's guaranteed
> to be installed everywhere, so vi it is. And I probably only
> use a tenth of its features.
But Emacs is maximalist, as is Lisp.
We want everything!
--
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal
Michel Verdier wrote:
>> Used it at their 21-23 versions. It's not editor, it's
>> really os and in this os best mail/news reader.
>
> Gnus rules!
Gnus is to Emacs users
what Emacs is to computer users.
https://dataswamp.org/~incal/figures/gnus/gnus-gmane.png
--
underground experts united
ht
Le 3 avril 2023 Stanislav Vlasov a écrit :
> Used it at their 21-23 versions. It's not editor, it's really os and
> in this os best mail/news reader.
Gnus rules ! And Org too :)
Jeffrey Walton wrote:
>> I saw many commands in /bin and /usr/bin are written by
>> perl. is perl still the first choice for sysadmin on linux?
>
> I am surprised this thread has not started a mini-flame war.
We are working on it ...
> About the best you can say is, Perl is one of the more
> pop
> Next, you might ask which is the best editor to use on Unix & Linux.
> That should really stir the pot :) Emacs for the win!
Ah no, that one's easy to answer - vi is what's guaranteed to be
installed everywhere, so vi it is. And I probably only use a tenth of
its features.
> Jeff
2023-04-03 21:36 GMT+05:00, Jeffrey Walton :
> Next, you might ask which is the best editor to use on Unix & Linux.
> That should really stir the pot :) Emacs for the win!
Emacs will not win, because this OS does not have good editor even
with M-x viper :-)
Used it at their 21-23 versions. It's n
2023-04-03 18:31 GMT+05:00, Vincent Lefevre :
> On 2023-04-03 11:48:42 +0500, Stanislav Vlasov wrote:
>> And I saw perl5 scripts from past (about 5.6 or lower), which can't
>> run on perl5 from current (5.22 or so at the moment).
>
> I would say that's quite rare (or these scripts were using
> expe
On Sun, Apr 2, 2023 at 4:59 AM wrote:
>
> I saw many commands in /bin and /usr/bin are written by perl.
> is perl still the first choice for sysadmin on linux?
I am surprised this thread has not started a mini-flame war.
About the best you can say is, Perl is one of the more popular
scripting la
On 2023-04-03 11:48:42 +0500, Stanislav Vlasov wrote:
> And I saw perl5 scripts from past (about 5.6 or lower), which can't
> run on perl5 from current (5.22 or so at the moment).
I would say that's quite rare (or these scripts were using
experimental features). I started with perl 5.000 in early
Le 3 avril 2023 Stanislav Vlasov a écrit :
> For short, simple and selfdocumented scripts using perl is a best way,
> but for something more complicated... Only if can't use something
> other.
They push java for the same reason, a false idea of simplicity with
OO. Remember we are speaking about s
tomas wrote:
>> Put it this way, a novice Python programmer can do more in
>> Python than the novice Lisp programmer can do in Lisp, or,
>> if you will, the same in less time.
>
> I've seen people cutting off part of a door with
> a bread knife.
But that is using a poor tool for the job, here we
пн, 3 апр. 2023 г. в 12:29, David Christensen :
> On 4/2/23 23:48, Stanislav Vlasov wrote:
> > пн, 3 апр. 2023 г. в 09:23, :
> >> I think python3 is much different to python2, but it's still naming as
> >> python.
> >
> > Not so much different as perl5 vs raku. I'm not a programmer, but can
> > wr
Le 3 avril 2023 David Christensen a écrit :
> documentation have improved. I believe all of my production Perl scripts are
> I/O bound, not CPU or memory bound.
I second. I made some python scripts which perform almost same as perl ones,
on similar tasks, but with more memory needs for python. I
On 4/2/23 23:48, Stanislav Vlasov wrote:
пн, 3 апр. 2023 г. в 09:23, :
I think python3 is much different to python2, but it's still naming as
python.
Not so much different as perl5 vs raku. I'm not a programmer, but can
write large (more than 10kB) scripth, which can run with python2 or
python
пн, 3 апр. 2023 г. в 09:23, :
> I think python3 is much different to python2, but it's still naming as
> python.
Not so much different as perl5 vs raku. I'm not a programmer, but can
write large (more than 10kB) scripth, which can run with python2 or
python3 on different systems.
And I saw perl5 s
On 03/04/2023 12:43, Andy Smith wrote:
Hello,
On Mon, Apr 03, 2023 at 12:23:19PM +0800, cor...@free.fr wrote:
I am just not sure, why perl6 is named to raku?
Because Perl 5 still exists and is still seeing new releases, and
what is now Raku is a completely different language, so there is no
Hello,
On Mon, Apr 03, 2023 at 12:23:19PM +0800, cor...@free.fr wrote:
> I am just not sure, why perl6 is named to raku?
Because Perl 5 still exists and is still seeing new releases, and
what is now Raku is a completely different language, so there is no
prospect of Perl 5 ceasing to
On Mon, Apr 03, 2023 at 05:44:31AM +0200, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> David Christensen wrote:
>
> > Code that writes code is a very useful technique, and I use
> > it. Whitespace as syntax would only make that harder.
>
> But if the whitespace is semantic, there's no
On Sun, Apr 02, 2023 at 07:24:25PM -0700, David Christensen wrote:
> On 4/2/23 14:57, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:
> > I'm afraid that Python has one specific feature that puts me off.
> > Sensitivity to indentation. To those who first had to learn 'make',
> > it's a sin that cannot be forgive
On Sun, Apr 02, 2023 at 09:16:08PM +0200, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> Greg Wooledge wrote:
>
> But development is faster with Python [...]
> >>>
> >>> Is it?
> >>
> >> Yes.
> >
> > Development is fastest using whatever language you know
> > best. This is not an objective argument.
>
> Put it this
On 03/04/2023 04:59, Tom Browder wrote:
On Sun, Apr 2, 2023 at 3:42 PM Michel Verdier wrote:
Le 2 avril 2023 Nicholas Geovanis a écrit :
> Python is a more modern programming language than perl, and more in the
> European CS tradition. Larry Wall said directly that the OO features in
> perl w
of those — there's always
going to be alternatives to Python.
Even if you imagine that such an AI might produce Python that acts
as some higher-level generator of low-level object code that no
human needs to look at, well, that's already the case with C and
assembly language yet multiple ass
David Christensen wrote:
> Code that writes code is a very useful technique, and I use
> it. Whitespace as syntax would only make that harder.
But if the whitespace is semantic, there's no saying it can't
be used to produce even more - indeed, of its own kind, even.
In Compute
On 4/2/23 14:38, Emanuel Berg wrote:
David Christensen wrote:
For sysadmin, I *use* what comes on the platform. On Debian:
2023-04-02 13:40:08 root@taz ~
# cat /etc/debian_version ; uname -a
11.6
Linux taz 5.10.0-21-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.162-1
(2023-01-21) x86_64 GNU/Linux
2023-04-02 13:4
Andy Smith wrote:
> For example, even if some AI assistant is written in Python,
> and even if you can ask it to spit out a device driver for
> the Linux kernel that does X and Y with Z hardware, do you
> think the device driver that it spits out will itself be
> written in Python?
It is up to th
eers,
Andy
--
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
n Python, and
even if you can ask it to spit out a device driver for the Linux
kernel that does X and Y with Z hardware, do you think the device
driver that it spits out will itself be written in Python?
Cheers,
Andy
--
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
On 4/2/23 14:57, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:
I'm afraid that Python has one specific feature that puts me off.
Sensitivity to indentation. To those who first had to learn 'make',
it's a sin that cannot be forgiven.
+1
Code that writes code is a very useful technique, and I use it.
Whit
On 4/2/23 14:36, Oliver Schoede wrote:
Seems to me
people easily forget this but Perl was intended, created to be a tool.
A text processing tool. Not a language, or environment like Python.
https://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3394
Marjorie: Back in the beginning, what inspired you to write P
Our production system is using heavily perl (many thousand lines of perl5 code)
- it's mod_perl, but still perl.
Thanks.
David Christensen wrote:
> Look at the use of parentheses in Lisp [...]
I have thought about that - is Lisp possible without them?
But how do you then know priority? I'm sure someone tried to
get rid of them, but how?
> the use of white space as syntax in Python
AKA "significant whitespace" in
On 4/2/23 12:11, Greg Wooledge wrote:
Development is fastest using whatever language you know best.
I would add -- "that is suitable to the task".
David
p.s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck
On 4/2/23 10:14, Emanuel Berg wrote:
tomas wrote:
But Python's lambdas are preposterous (not so Perl's ;-)
Well, can't compare either to Lisp, the Pythagorean theorem of
computing ...
https://hop.perl.plover.com/
Preface
Around 1993 I started reading books about Lisp, and I discover
On 4/2/23 10:09, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
Larry Wall said directly
that the OO features in perl were fake :-)
Maybe there are OO modules by now?
https://perldoc.perl.org/perlootut#PERL-OO-SYSTEMS
David
On 4/2/23 09:31, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
Python is a more modern programming language than perl, and more in the
European CS tradition. Larry Wall said ...
https://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3394
Marjorie: In what way is Perl better than other scripting languages such
as Python and Eiffel
On 2023-04-02 14:57, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:
I'll admit that when I first saw perl, I thought it was horrific and I
swore to continue using awk and C and ... anything but perl. But then
one day $job required me to learn perl so I did and have been a convert
ever since.
Perl definitel
Steve Sobol wrote:
>> If you are looking for a career, Python is much bigger but
>> there is a lot of shell scripts and for that matter
>> a little bit of Perl don't harm, absolutely mot.
>
> I'm seeing scripts written in Python far more often than
> Perl these days
100%, it's much more popular.
Jude DaShiell wrote:
> Perl or python, which has the most supported sysadmin tools?
What do you mean, built into the actual languages?
Or the number of tools people have written in either of
those languages?
We need a command for that as well ...
--
underground experts united
https://dataswam
On 2023-04-02 02:24, Emanuel Berg wrote:
If you are looking for a career, Python is much bigger but
there is a lot of shell scripts and for that matter a little
bit of Perl don't harm, absolutely mot.
I'm seeing scripts written in Python far more often than Perl these
days, but it is probably
debian-user wrote:
>>> Development is fastest using whatever language you know
>>> best. This is not an objective argument.
>>
>> Put it this way, a novice Python programmer can do more in
>> Python than the novice Lisp programmer can do in Lisp, or,
>> if you will, the same in less time.
>
> I'm
Perl or python, which has the most supported sysadmin tools?
-- Jude "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that
order." Ed Howdershelt 1940.
On Sun, 2 Apr 2023, Michel Verdier wrote:
> Le 2 avril 2023 Nicholas Geovanis a écrit :
>
>
Le 2 avril 2023 Emanuel Berg a écrit :
> Hey, inspired by the other dude's awesome list of source code,
> can't we have a command to parse Bibtex and find out who has
> the more books :)
Hum I think win** have even more books, still it's not the thing to learn
for a sysadmin :) I read 1 book on P
Oliver Schoede wrote:
> So is it still the first choice for sysadmin work on Linux?
> Well I doubt it, I also doubt it ever was. That would be
> shell. ;)
Indeed, I thought about that! The shell.
Side note, many guys say they only use sh because bash, zsh
etc requires them being installed, I don
Emanuel Berg wrote:
> Greg Wooledge wrote:
>
> But development is faster with Python [...]
> >>>
> >>> Is it?
> >>
> >> Yes.
> >
> > Development is fastest using whatever language you know
> > best. This is not an objective argument.
>
> Put it this way, a novice Python programmer
source code,
can't we have a command to parse Bibtex and find out who has
the more books :)
I don't think Lisp will win anyway, I have these in my own
file, and I know of "CLTL" [1] as well ...
@book{land-of-lisp,
author = {Conrad Barski},
isbn = {1593272812},
publishe
David Christensen wrote:
> For sysadmin, I *use* what comes on the platform. On Debian:
>
> 2023-04-02 13:40:08 root@taz ~
> # cat /etc/debian_version ; uname -a
> 11.6
> Linux taz 5.10.0-21-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.162-1
> (2023-01-21) x86_64 GNU/Linux
>
> 2023-04-02 13:40:17 root@taz ~
> # echo
files. And I use perl everywhere when I need a regex:
>parsing logs and the like. Specially with backref and substitution
>which are painful with python (IMO).
>
That's the whole point IMO, and the question was specifically about
system administration purposes, no clue why Lisp po
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