Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

I agree with you. I have already committed to bilingualism in my development and system administration processes. Once we get through this discussion, I might put out an argument for an installer like IzPack that can make deployment into different environments with the appropriate seed data

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

And the reasoning behind that is quite simple: saving on storage and bandwidth, thus cost. Best regards, Pierre Op dinsdag 28 april 2015 heeft Jacopo Cappellato < jacopo.cappell...@hotwaxsystems.com> het volgende geschreven: > On Apr 28, 2015, at 6:45 PM, Jacques Le Roux > wrote: > > > This is

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Le 28/04/2015 18:59, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : Le 28/04/2015 16:47, Adam Heath a écrit : On 04/28/2015 03:16 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Le 24/04/2015 17:01, Adam Heath a écrit : On 04/24/2015 09:57 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: On Apr 24, 2015, at 4:36 PM, Adam Heath wrote: src/main/java/

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

On Apr 28, 2015, at 6:45 PM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: > This is interesting, now I wonder if Jacopo still think the same than at > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5464?focusedCommentId=13947664 Recently I have read in some ASF thread that the ASF prefers that source releases do not

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Le 28/04/2015 16:47, Adam Heath a écrit : On 04/28/2015 03:16 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Le 24/04/2015 17:01, Adam Heath a écrit : On 04/24/2015 09:57 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: On Apr 24, 2015, at 4:36 PM, Adam Heath wrote: src/main/java/org/ofbiz/product/ src/main/minilang/org/ofbiz/p

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Le 28/04/2015 16:59, Adam Heath a écrit : On 04/28/2015 08:22 AM, Ron Wheeler wrote: On 28/04/2015 3:31 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Le 27/04/2015 16:52, Adam Heath a écrit : On 04/27/2015 09:40 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: You can already compile components separately by using the specific buil

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Le 28/04/2015 15:22, Ron Wheeler a écrit : On 28/04/2015 3:31 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Le 27/04/2015 16:52, Adam Heath a écrit : On 04/27/2015 09:40 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: You can already compile components separately by using the specific build files Yeah, I know, and it's a pain in

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

On 04/28/2015 08:22 AM, Ron Wheeler wrote: On 28/04/2015 3:31 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Le 27/04/2015 16:52, Adam Heath a écrit : On 04/27/2015 09:40 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: You can already compile components separately by using the specific build files Yeah, I know, and it's a pain in

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

On 04/28/2015 03:27 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: On Apr 28, 2015, at 10:16 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: So you would like to suppress the concept of event? Most of the events are currently implemented in Java and are already under src folder. Not what I mean. The following method definiti

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

On 04/28/2015 03:16 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Le 24/04/2015 17:01, Adam Heath a écrit : On 04/24/2015 09:57 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: On Apr 24, 2015, at 4:36 PM, Adam Heath wrote: src/main/java/org/ofbiz/product/ src/main/minilang/org/ofbiz/product/ src/main/groovy/... src/test/java/o

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

On 04/28/2015 02:31 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Le 27/04/2015 16:52, Adam Heath a écrit : On 04/27/2015 09:40 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: You can already compile components separately by using the specific build files Yeah, I know, and it's a pain in my side. I actually like being able to *c

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

On 28/04/2015 3:31 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Le 27/04/2015 16:52, Adam Heath a écrit : On 04/27/2015 09:40 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: You can already compile components separately by using the specific build files Yeah, I know, and it's a pain in my side. I actually like being able to *com

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Quoting: We will not change your custom projects :-) On top of that, with proper notification you can plan to address the migration aspects to your wishes. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM * Services & Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Service

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

On Apr 28, 2015, at 10:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: > In custom projects I like to use simple-methods events... We will not change your custom projects :-) Jacopo

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Le 28/04/2015 10:27, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit : On Apr 28, 2015, at 10:16 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: So you would like to suppress the concept of event? Most of the events are currently implemented in Java and are already under src folder. Jacopo In custom projects I like to use simple

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Le 25/04/2015 14:32, Michael Brohl a écrit : +1 for the mentioned statements, especially planning, an announced branch which is not backward compatible and a sensible look at users who build their business on the OFBiz foundation without denying serious changes just because of this fact. Mayb

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

+1 Jacques Le 25/04/2015 12:39, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit : Adrian, Pierre, this is exactly what I meant. Jacopo On Apr 25, 2015, at 11:36 AM, Pierre Smits wrote: Migration plans help to ensure that external issues are addressed. It also helps to pick future release branch that will have

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Interesting, it did not occur to me this was J2EE related +1 Jacques Le 24/04/2015 18:47, Adrian Crum a écrit : +1 OFBiz stopped following J2EE patterns years ago, so we might as well make it official. Adrian Crum Sandglass Software www.sandglass-software.com On 4/24/2015 3:57 PM, Jacopo C

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

On Apr 28, 2015, at 10:16 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: > So you would like to suppress the concept of event? Most of the events are currently implemented in Java and are already under src folder. Jacopo

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Le 24/04/2015 17:01, Adam Heath a écrit : On 04/24/2015 09:57 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: On Apr 24, 2015, at 4:36 PM, Adam Heath wrote: src/main/java/org/ofbiz/product/ src/main/minilang/org/ofbiz/product/ src/main/groovy/... src/test/java/org/ofbiz/product/ I haven't yet gotten to integr

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Le 21/01/2015 16:08, Ron Wheeler a écrit : Very good reasons. I am excited by #7. If done correctly, it could make it much easier for new people to get involved since it should partition the application into chunks that are easier to learn. It will also relieve some of the management burden sin

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Le 27/04/2015 16:52, Adam Heath a écrit : On 04/27/2015 09:40 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: You can already compile components separately by using the specific build files Yeah, I know, and it's a pain in my side. I actually like being able to *compile* each component separately, by changing to

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

On 27/04/2015 10:52 AM, Adam Heath wrote: On 04/27/2015 09:40 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: You can already compile components separately by using the specific build files Yeah, I know, and it's a pain in my side. I actually like being able to *compile* each component separately, by changing t

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

On 04/27/2015 09:40 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: You can already compile components separately by using the specific build files Yeah, I know, and it's a pain in my side. I actually like being able to *compile* each component separately, by changing to that folder, and running ant. I haven't

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

You can already compile components separately by using the specific build files Jacques Le 24/04/2015 06:26, Ron Wheeler a écrit : +1 Any change of breaking the project up into components that are compiled separately? Ron On 23/04/2015 11:42 PM, Scott Gray wrote: +1 Regards Scott On 21 J

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

+1 I agree that while backward-compatibility is an important factor to consider, it should not be the sole reason for halting an evolutionary effort such as this. Following along with what Adrian has already said, whether it is this proposal or some other effort where there is a potential for us

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

+1 I agree that while backward-compatibility is an important factor to consider, it should not be the sole reason for halting an evolutionary effort such as this. Following along with what Adrian has already said, whether it is this proposal or some other effort where there has been a potential

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Has anyone actually made any findings regarding the file reorganization's impact on the ability to support previous releases. I did not see any mention of changes to class names (other than fixing the organization name org.ofbiz to org.apache.ofbiz which seems to have been put on pause for now

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

+1 for the mentioned statements, especially planning, an announced branch which is not backward compatible and a sensible look at users who build their business on the OFBiz foundation without denying serious changes just because of this fact. Maybe it is possible to provide some "migration

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Adrian, Pierre, this is exactly what I meant. Jacopo On Apr 25, 2015, at 11:36 AM, Pierre Smits wrote: > Migration plans help to ensure that external issues are addressed. It also > helps to pick future release branch that will have these major changes, say > r15 or 16 and plan/work towards ha

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Migration plans help to ensure that external issues are addressed. It also helps to pick future release branch that will have these major changes, say r15 or 16 and plan/work towards having everything in place for that. I suggest we start working on getting the JIRA side first, before the creating

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

I would like to suggest again that the R15.x branch be labelled and advertised as a major rewrite that will not be backward compatible. Let's do all of our major changes in one revision, and as Pierre suggested, include in that revision instructions on how to migrate from pre-R15 to post-R15.

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

On Apr 25, 2015, at 10:39 AM, Pierre Smits wrote: > I can imagine that some will vote a -1 regarding this reorganisation of the > structure, as this will break backward compatibility and puts the pressure > on all those users who have created extensions and replacements Same here, and I really h

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

I can imagine that some will vote a -1 regarding this reorganisation of the structure, as this will break backward compatibility and puts the pressure on all those users who have created extensions and replacements (e.g. in hot-deploy), especially regarding referenced scripts. How do we ensure tha

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

On Apr 24, 2015, at 5:01 PM, Adam Heath wrote: > On 04/24/2015 09:57 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: >> On Apr 24, 2015, at 4:36 PM, Adam Heath wrote: >> > src/main/java/org/ofbiz/product/ > src/main/minilang/org/ofbiz/product/ > src/main/groovy/... > src/test/java/org/ofbiz/produc

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

+1 OFBiz stopped following J2EE patterns years ago, so we might as well make it official. Adrian Crum Sandglass Software www.sandglass-software.com On 4/24/2015 3:57 PM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: On Apr 24, 2015, at 4:36 PM, Adam Heath wrote: src/main/java/org/ofbiz/product/ src/main/minil

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Still +1 ! Ron On 24/04/2015 11:12 AM, Adam Heath wrote: On 04/24/2015 10:05 AM, Ron Wheeler wrote: +1 Looks like Adam has the right approach. Thanks. However, I'm thinking of adding a few steps. See below. Ron On 24/04/2015 10:36 AM, Adam Heath wrote: +0.5 (see below, comment inline)

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

On 04/24/2015 10:05 AM, Ron Wheeler wrote: +1 Looks like Adam has the right approach. Thanks. However, I'm thinking of adding a few steps. See below. Ron On 24/04/2015 10:36 AM, Adam Heath wrote: +0.5 (see below, comment inline) Yes, I agree. I even have a way forward, if you've been p

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

+1 Looks like Adam has the right approach. Ron On 24/04/2015 10:36 AM, Adam Heath wrote: +0.5 (see below, comment inline) Yes, I agree. I even have a way forward, if you've been paying attention to the maven branch(OFBIZ-6271). I have maven working with the *existing* layout in ofbiz. My pl

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

On 04/24/2015 09:57 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: On Apr 24, 2015, at 4:36 PM, Adam Heath wrote: src/main/java/org/ofbiz/product/ src/main/minilang/org/ofbiz/product/ src/main/groovy/... src/test/java/org/ofbiz/product/ I haven't yet gotten to integrating a groovy compiler plugin, I see only

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

On Apr 24, 2015, at 4:36 PM, Adam Heath wrote: >>> src/main/java/org/ofbiz/product/ >>> src/main/minilang/org/ofbiz/product/ >>> src/main/groovy/... >>> src/test/java/org/ofbiz/product/ > > I haven't yet gotten to integrating a groovy compiler plugin, I see only one > .groovy in framework/servi

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

+0.5 (see below, comment inline) Yes, I agree. I even have a way forward, if you've been paying attention to the maven branch(OFBIZ-6271). I have maven working with the *existing* layout in ofbiz. My plan for migration has been this: * Get maven working with existing structure. Ie, maven

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Thanks for detailed advantages of going with this approach. My +1 for going with this approach. Thanks -- Divesh Dutta On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Jacopo Cappellato < jacopo.cappell...@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote: > On Jan 20, 2015, at 1:49 PM, Jacques Le Roux > wrote: > > > Have you a clear id

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

+1 Any change of breaking the project up into components that are compiled separately? Ron On 23/04/2015 11:42 PM, Scott Gray wrote: +1 Regards Scott On 21 January 2015 at 00:41, Jacopo Cappellato < jacopo.cappell...@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote: In my opinion it would be nice to review how we

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

+1 Regards Scott On 21 January 2015 at 00:41, Jacopo Cappellato < jacopo.cappell...@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote: > In my opinion it would be nice to review how we organize the code in our > components and switch to a directory layout that is more inline with what > other projects are doing, for examp

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

> On 21 Jan 2015, at 09:24, Jacques Le Roux > wrote: > > > Le 21/01/2015 15:45, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : >>> 5) moving a step forward in the direction of allowing the adoption of Maven >>> like tools (Maven, Gradle etc..) that could make it easier to share >>> external components (grow the

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Is this still an ongoing discussion? Has all been said? Is it time for trying to get to some consensus, e.g. through a vote? Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM * Services & Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail & Trade http://www.or

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Le 22/01/2015 09:53, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit : On Jan 21, 2015, at 6:35 PM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: I guess you think about http://groovy.codehaus.org/Eclipse+Plugin (also called GGTS) ? I just updated, thanks! I agree it's far better than what I had (previsou version I guess) But I guess

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

On Jan 21, 2015, at 6:35 PM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: > I guess you think about http://groovy.codehaus.org/Eclipse+Plugin (also > called GGTS) ? I just updated, thanks! > > I agree it's far better than what I had (previsou version I guess) > But I guess you can't have the strength a strongly typ

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

I guess you think about http://groovy.codehaus.org/Eclipse+Plugin (also called GGTS) ? I just updated, thanks! I agree it's far better than what I had (previsou version I guess) But I guess you can't have the strength a strongly typed language like Java give you in term of navigation between ar

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Le 21/01/2015 15:45, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : 5) moving a step forward in the direction of allowing the adoption of Maven like tools (Maven, Gradle etc..) that could make it easier to share external components (grow the ecosystem) Maven, are you serious (have mercy!)? And Gradle seems still a

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

True. To summarize, I support any effort to make things more organized. This all sounds fine to me. Adrian Crum Sandglass Software www.sandglass-software.com On 1/21/2015 7:03 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: On Jan 21, 2015, at 3:56 PM, Adrian Crum wrote: I don't like the idea of mixing scr

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Could you not do this by splitting the scripts into their own SVN project with a dependency in the build on a jar that is generated by the project that contains the Java code? The script project would generate the executable jar. On 21/01/2015 10:03 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: On Jan 21, 201

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Very good reasons. I am excited by #7. If done correctly, it could make it much easier for new people to get involved since it should partition the application into chunks that are easier to learn. It will also relieve some of the management burden since the people reviewing code changes will

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Improvements, though painful at first when applied, are always intended with the future in mind. And it is based on the past. Not improving is like living in the past. That being said, I find good in any argument provided. Yes, it has impact And yes, undertaking something like this should be done

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

On Jan 21, 2015, at 3:56 PM, Adrian Crum wrote: > I don't like the idea of mixing scripts with Java source code. I understand > it makes sense from the perspective that scripts and Java are both "source > code", but the nice thing about keeping the Java source separate is it can be > removed

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

I don't like the idea of mixing scripts with Java source code. I understand it makes sense from the perspective that scripts and Java are both "source code", but the nice thing about keeping the Java source separate is it can be removed during deployment - reducing the project's footprint on th

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Le 21/01/2015 10:06, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit : On Jan 20, 2015, at 1:49 PM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: >Also what does this bring to the project? Why do you want to do so (apart being in line with other projects)? And why should we be in line with them, do you envision something? The main adv

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

There is an excellent tool for Groovy in Eclipse Jacopo On Jan 21, 2015, at 1:47 PM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: > > Le 21/01/2015 10:06, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit : >>> >I guess for Java it should not be so hard but for minilang and groovy >>> >could be harder, everybody does not use Idea (groov

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Le 21/01/2015 10:06, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit : >I guess for Java it should not be so hard but for minilang and groovy could be harder, everybody does not use Idea (groovy part)... I am sorry but the above sentence doesn't make any sense to me... I mean that refactoring with an IDE is easier

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Le 21/01/2015 02:13, Adrian Crum a écrit : I disagree. This is an open source software project where decisions should be made based on good design principles. The work is being done by volunteers, so I don't see how "cost/benefit" applies. It is also a community driven project where decisions g

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

On Jan 20, 2015, at 1:49 PM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: > Have you a clear idea of that this entails in term of migration, no only > OOTB, but for custom projects which relies on trunk? I did some reasonings about it and it shouldn't be a big deal, especially on the programming side (it will requ

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

On Jan 20, 2015, at 4:29 PM, Adrian Crum wrote: > I suggested a Maven-like folder structure years ago, and there was pushback > from Adam. He was concerned that test classes would reside in the same > package as the classes being tested - which would expose their implementation. This is a no

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

I agree about those benefits (even if they are weak) but I'd like to have the drawbacks measured better. Doing an easy things does not mean it has no implications, see when we decided to remove the specialpurpose from R13 Jacques Le 21/01/2015 02:32, Ron Wheeler a écrit : It will make the proj

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

So what are the advantages vs drawbacks? Who can clearly tell us that? Jacques Le 21/01/2015 02:13, Adrian Crum a écrit : I disagree. This is an open source software project where decisions should be made based on good design principles. The work is being done by volunteers, so I don't see how

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

It will make the project look more professional which has some benefit in reviews by IT departments of potential adopters or by technical reviewers for blogs or journals. I am not sure if this can be quantified but it is a benefit. The cost seems pretty low since it should only affect the buil

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

I disagree. This is an open source software project where decisions should be made based on good design principles. The work is being done by volunteers, so I don't see how "cost/benefit" applies. Adrian Crum Sandglass Software www.sandglass-software.com On 1/20/2015 5:04 PM, Hans Bakker wrote

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Jacopo, 'nice' is not enough reason to change the directory structure. Please this is a business application where decisions should be taken based on cost/benefit. Regards, Hans On 20/01/15 18:41, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: In my opinion it would be nice to review how we organize the code

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

I suggested a Maven-like folder structure years ago, and there was pushback from Adam. He was concerned that test classes would reside in the same package as the classes being tested - which would expose their implementation. The classpath under the script folder is not necessary. That was use

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Good step forward. Ron On 20/01/2015 6:41 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: In my opinion it would be nice to review how we organize the code in our components and switch to a directory layout that is more inline with what other projects are doing, for example: http://maven.apache.org/guides/intr

Re: Proposal: redefining the components' directory layout for source files

Have you a clear idea of that this entails in term of migration, no only OOTB, but for custom projects which relies on trunk? I guess for Java it should not be so hard but for minilang and groovy could be harder, everybody does not use Idea (groovy part)... Also what does this bring to the proj