Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2016-09-21 Thread Andrea Fontana via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 21 September 2016 at 10:25:39 UTC, Nick B wrote: On Wednesday, 21 September 2016 at 07:52:18 UTC, Ethan Watson wrote: On Tuesday, 20 September 2016 at 22:52:57 UTC, Nic Brummell Is there some central repository with links to the active projects? I'll try and wrap my head fully

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2016-09-21 Thread Nick B via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 21 September 2016 at 07:52:18 UTC, Ethan Watson wrote: On Tuesday, 20 September 2016 at 22:52:57 UTC, Nic Brummell Is there some central repository with links to the active projects? I'll try and wrap my head fully around the math before we get to that point though. Ethan

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2016-09-21 Thread Ethan Watson via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 20 September 2016 at 22:52:57 UTC, Nic Brummell wrote: If anyone is still interested in this concept whatsoever Now that we've announced we're doing multiplayer games. One of the guys was saying we'd need a fixed-point library. My response was "Why not unums?" Thus, in the very

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2016-09-20 Thread Nick B via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 20 September 2016 at 22:52:57 UTC, Nic Brummell wrote: If anyone is still interested in this concept whatsoever, we are holding a mini-workshop on the current developments of Unums at the University of California Santa Cruz on Oct 24th. We'd love to have some participation from

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2016-09-20 Thread Nic Brummell via Digitalmars-d
If anyone is still interested in this concept whatsoever, we are holding a mini-workshop on the current developments of Unums at the University of California Santa Cruz on Oct 24th. We'd love to have some participation from interested parties, including presentations on any attempts to

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2016-02-20 Thread Nick B via Digitalmars-d
On Saturday, 20 February 2016 at 23:25:40 UTC, Nick B wrote: On Wednesday, 17 February 2016 at 16:35:41 UTC, jmh530 wrote: On Wednesday, 17 February 2016 at 08:11:21 UTC, Nick B wrote: Having just looked at the slides again, I believe this will break compatibility with std.math, (for

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2016-02-20 Thread Nick B via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 17 February 2016 at 16:35:41 UTC, jmh530 wrote: On Wednesday, 17 February 2016 at 08:11:21 UTC, Nick B wrote: Wrt phobos, I would just recommend that whatever unum library gets eventually written has a companion with the equivalent of the functions from std.math. Having

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2016-02-17 Thread jmh530 via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 17 February 2016 at 08:11:21 UTC, Nick B wrote: Hi John Gustafson was in town (Wellington, NZ) for the Multicore World Conference 2016 ( http://www.multicoreworld.com/) conference. I caught up with him, tonight, and spoke to him for about two hours. Here is a quick summary of

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2016-02-17 Thread Nick B via Digitalmars-d
Hi John Gustafson was in town (Wellington, NZ) for the Multicore World Conference 2016 ( http://www.multicoreworld.com/) conference. I caught up with him, tonight, and spoke to him for about two hours. Here is a quick summary of what we discussed. John has just redesigned Unums, to address

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-11-17 Thread Lionello Lunesu via Digitalmars-d
On 17/11/15 07:52, Nick_B wrote: On Sunday, 15 November 2015 at 04:19:21 UTC, Lionello Lunesu wrote: On 09/11/15 04:38, Richard Davies wrote: Yeah, I got curious too. I spend some time on it yesterday and had a stab at writing it in D. Hi. I send a email to John Gustafson yesterday, re this

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-11-16 Thread Nick_B via Digitalmars-d
On Sunday, 15 November 2015 at 04:19:21 UTC, Lionello Lunesu wrote: On 09/11/15 04:38, Richard Davies wrote: Yeah, I got curious too. I spend some time on it yesterday and had a stab at writing it in D. Hi. I send a email to John Gustafson yesterday, re this thread. He replied as follows:

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-11-14 Thread Lionello Lunesu via Digitalmars-d
On 09/11/15 04:38, Richard Davies wrote: On Friday, 18 September 2015 at 03:19:26 UTC, Nick B wrote: On Thursday, 17 September 2015 at 23:53:30 UTC, Anthony Di Franco wrote: I read the whole book and did not regret it at all, but I was already looking for good interval arithmetic

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-11-08 Thread Richard Davies via Digitalmars-d
On Friday, 18 September 2015 at 03:19:26 UTC, Nick B wrote: On Thursday, 17 September 2015 at 23:53:30 UTC, Anthony Di Franco wrote: I read the whole book and did not regret it at all, but I was already looking for good interval arithmetic implementations. I found that the techniques are

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-18 Thread Ola Fosheim Grøstad via Digitalmars-d
On Thursday, 17 September 2015 at 23:53:30 UTC, Anthony Di Franco wrote: Whether this library should be part of the standard library, I don't know. It would seem to depend on how much people want the standard library to support verified numerical computing. If it is clear that verified

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-18 Thread Ola Fosheim Grøstad via Digitalmars-d
On Friday, 18 September 2015 at 13:39:24 UTC, skoppe wrote: You forgot to mention that D is quite attractive for people who just want to complain on forums. Yes, but that does not define the language. That's just a consequence of people having expectations and caring about where it is

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-18 Thread Ola Fosheim Grøstad via Digitalmars-d
Also keep in mind that people who care about the language complain only in the forums. People who no longer care about the language and are upset because they had too high expectations complain not on the forums, but on reddit, slashdot and blogs... So setting expectations where they belong

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-18 Thread skoppe via Digitalmars-d
On Friday, 18 September 2015 at 09:25:00 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: D is created by hackers who enjoy hacking. They don't have the focus on correctness that verifiable-anything requires. So if you enjoy hacking you'll have fun. If are into reliability, stability and correctness you'll get

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-17 Thread Ola Fosheim Grøstad via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 16 September 2015 at 23:28:23 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote: I'm not so sure how well this will work in practice, though, unless we have a working prototype that proves the benefits. What if you have a 10*10 unum matrix, and during some operation the size of the unums in the matrix

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-17 Thread Anthony Di Franco via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 September 2015 at 05:16:53 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Saturday, 11 July 2015 at 03:02:24 UTC, Nick B wrote: On Thursday, 20 February 2014 at 10:10:13 UTC, Nick B wrote: ... If you are at all interested in computer arithmetic or numerical methods, read this book. It is destined

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-17 Thread Nick B via Digitalmars-d
On Thursday, 17 September 2015 at 23:53:30 UTC, Anthony Di Franco wrote: I read the whole book and did not regret it at all, but I was already looking for good interval arithmetic implementations. I found that the techniques are not too different (though improved in important ways) from

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-17 Thread Ola Fosheim Grostad via Digitalmars-d
On Friday, 18 September 2015 at 03:19:26 UTC, Nick B wrote: Can you describe what YOU mean by 'verified numerical computing', as I could not find a good description of it, and why is it important to have it. Verified numerical computations provide results that are guaranteed to be without

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-16 Thread Don via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 September 2015 at 11:13:59 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: On Tuesday, 15 September 2015 at 10:38:23 UTC, ponce wrote: On Tuesday, 15 September 2015 at 09:35:36 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: http://sites.ieee.org/scv-cs/files/2013/03/Right-SizingPrecision1.pdf That's a

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-16 Thread Ola Fosheim Grøstad via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 16 September 2015 at 08:17:59 UTC, Don wrote: I'm not convinced. I think they are downplaying the hardware difficulties. Slide 34: I don't think he is downplaying it. He has said that it will probably take at least 10 years before it is available in hardware. There is also a

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-16 Thread deadalnix via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 16 September 2015 at 08:17:59 UTC, Don wrote: On Tuesday, 15 September 2015 at 11:13:59 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: On Tuesday, 15 September 2015 at 10:38:23 UTC, ponce wrote: On Tuesday, 15 September 2015 at 09:35:36 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-16 Thread deadalnix via Digitalmars-d
On Saturday, 11 July 2015 at 18:16:22 UTC, Timon Gehr wrote: On 07/11/2015 05:07 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 7/10/15 11:02 PM, Nick B wrote: John Gustafson book is now out: It can be found here:

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-16 Thread Ola Fosheim Grøstad via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 16 September 2015 at 08:38:25 UTC, deadalnix wrote: The energy comparison is bullshit. As long as you haven't loaded the data, you don't know how wide they are. Meaning you need either to go pessimistic and load for the worst case scenario or do 2 round trip to memory. That

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-16 Thread Timon Gehr via Digitalmars-d
On 09/16/2015 10:17 AM, Don wrote: So: ... * There is no guarantee that it would be possible to implement it in hardware without a speed penalty, regardless of how many transistors you throw at it (hardware analogue of Amdahl's Law) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustafson's_law :o)

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-16 Thread deadalnix via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 16 September 2015 at 14:11:04 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: On Wednesday, 16 September 2015 at 08:38:25 UTC, deadalnix wrote: The energy comparison is bullshit. As long as you haven't loaded the data, you don't know how wide they are. Meaning you need either to go pessimistic

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-16 Thread deadalnix via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 16 September 2015 at 19:40:49 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: You can load continuously 64 bytes in a stream, decode to your internal format and push them into the scratchpad of other cores. You could even do this in hardware. 1/ If you load the worst case scenario, then your

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-16 Thread jmh530 via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 16 September 2015 at 08:38:25 UTC, deadalnix wrote: Also, predictable size mean you can split your dataset and process it in parallel, which is impossible if sizes are random. I don't recall how he would deal with something similar to cache misses when you have to promote or

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-16 Thread Ola Fosheim Grøstad via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 16 September 2015 at 19:21:59 UTC, deadalnix wrote: No you don't. Because the streamer still need to load the unum one by one. Maybe 2 by 2 with a fair amount of hardware speculation (which means you are already trading energy for performances, so the energy argument is weak).

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-16 Thread Timon Gehr via Digitalmars-d
On 09/16/2015 10:46 AM, deadalnix wrote: On Saturday, 11 July 2015 at 18:16:22 UTC, Timon Gehr wrote: On 07/11/2015 05:07 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 7/10/15 11:02 PM, Nick B wrote: John Gustafson book is now out: It can be found here:

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-16 Thread deadalnix via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 16 September 2015 at 21:12:11 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: On Wednesday, 16 September 2015 at 20:53:37 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Wednesday, 16 September 2015 at 20:30:36 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: On Wednesday, 16 September 2015 at 20:06:43 UTC, deadalnix wrote: You know,

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-16 Thread Wyatt via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 16 September 2015 at 08:53:24 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: I don't think he is downplaying it. He has said that it will probably take at least 10 years before it is available in hardware. There is also a company called Rex Computing that are looking at unum: Oh hey, I

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-16 Thread Ola Fosheim Grøstad via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 16 September 2015 at 20:35:16 UTC, Wyatt wrote: On Wednesday, 16 September 2015 at 08:53:24 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: I don't think he is downplaying it. He has said that it will probably take at least 10 years before it is available in hardware. There is also a company

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-16 Thread Ola Fosheim Grøstad via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 16 September 2015 at 20:53:37 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Wednesday, 16 September 2015 at 20:30:36 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: On Wednesday, 16 September 2015 at 20:06:43 UTC, deadalnix wrote: You know, when you have no idea what you are talking about, you can just move on to

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-16 Thread Ola Fosheim Grøstad via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 16 September 2015 at 20:06:43 UTC, deadalnix wrote: You know, when you have no idea what you are talking about, you can just move on to something you understand. Ah, nice move. Back to your usual habits? Prefetching would not change anything here. The problem come from variable

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-16 Thread deadalnix via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 16 September 2015 at 20:30:36 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: On Wednesday, 16 September 2015 at 20:06:43 UTC, deadalnix wrote: You know, when you have no idea what you are talking about, you can just move on to something you understand. Ah, nice move. Back to your usual habits?

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-16 Thread H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d
On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 08:06:42PM +, deadalnix via Digitalmars-d wrote: [...] > When you have a floating point unit, you get your 32 bits you get 23 > bits that go into the mantissa FU and 8 in the exponent FU. For > instance, if you multiply floats, you send the 2 exponent into a > adder,

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-15 Thread ponce via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 September 2015 at 05:16:53 UTC, deadalnix wrote: The guy seems to have good credential. Why should I read that book ? The sample chapter dissipates a bit the marketing cloud. One of the ideas is that the imprecise bit encode an interval between 2 values, hence automatically

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-15 Thread deadalnix via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 September 2015 at 07:07:20 UTC, ponce wrote: On Tuesday, 15 September 2015 at 05:16:53 UTC, deadalnix wrote: The guy seems to have good credential. Why should I read that book ? The sample chapter dissipates a bit the marketing cloud. One of the ideas is that the imprecise

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-15 Thread Ola Fosheim Grøstad via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 September 2015 at 08:24:30 UTC, ponce wrote: However if unum aren't fast, they will be only for prototyping and the real algorithm would rely on IEEE floats with different precision characteristics, so yeah hardware is critical. I think he is looking into 32 bit floats for a

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-15 Thread ponce via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 September 2015 at 07:57:01 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Tuesday, 15 September 2015 at 07:07:20 UTC, ponce wrote: On Tuesday, 15 September 2015 at 05:16:53 UTC, deadalnix wrote: The guy seems to have good credential. Why should I read that book ? The sample chapter dissipates a

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-15 Thread ponce via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 September 2015 at 09:35:36 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: http://sites.ieee.org/scv-cs/files/2013/03/Right-SizingPrecision1.pdf That's a pretty convincing case. Who does it :)?

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-15 Thread Ola Fosheim Grøstad via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 September 2015 at 10:38:23 UTC, ponce wrote: On Tuesday, 15 September 2015 at 09:35:36 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: http://sites.ieee.org/scv-cs/files/2013/03/Right-SizingPrecision1.pdf That's a pretty convincing case. Who does it :)? You:9

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-14 Thread Anthony Di Franco via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 22 July 2015 at 20:41:42 UTC, jmh530 wrote: On Wednesday, 22 July 2015 at 19:28:41 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 7/13/15 1:20 AM, Nick B wrote: All we can do now, with our limited resources, is to keep an eye on developments and express cautious interest. If someone able

Re: Implement the "unum" representation in D ?

2015-09-14 Thread deadalnix via Digitalmars-d
On Saturday, 11 July 2015 at 03:02:24 UTC, Nick B wrote: On Thursday, 20 February 2014 at 10:10:13 UTC, Nick B wrote: Hi everyone. John Gustafson Will be presenting a Keynote on Thursday 27th February at 11:00 am The abstract is here:

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2015-07-22 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 7/13/15 1:20 AM, Nick B wrote: On Sunday, 12 July 2015 at 03:52:32 UTC, jmh530 wrote: On Saturday, 11 July 2015 at 03:02:24 UTC, Nick B wrote: FYI John Gustafson book is now out: I wouldn't have known about this way to deal with it if you hadn't bumped this thread. So thanks, it's

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2015-07-22 Thread jmh530 via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 22 July 2015 at 19:28:41 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 7/13/15 1:20 AM, Nick B wrote: All we can do now, with our limited resources, is to keep an eye on developments and express cautious interest. If someone able and willing comes along with a unum library for D, that

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2015-07-17 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 7/16/15 9:49 PM, Nick B wrote: On Monday, 13 July 2015 at 21:25:12 UTC, Per Nordlöw wrote: Can we do anything useful with unums in numeric algorithms if only have forward or bidirectional access? Similar to algorithms such as Levenshtein that are compatible with UTF-8 and UTF-16, Andrei? :)

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2015-07-16 Thread Nick B via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 13 July 2015 at 21:25:12 UTC, Per Nordlöw wrote: Can we do anything useful with unums in numeric algorithms if only have forward or bidirectional access? Similar to algorithms such as Levenshtein that are compatible with UTF-8 and UTF-16, Andrei? :) Question for Andrei, above, if

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2015-07-13 Thread via Digitalmars-d
On Thursday, 20 February 2014 at 21:30:10 UTC, jerro wrote: Also, because they are variable sized, you need to access them through pointers if you want random access. Now you are reading Unless the author was thinking in terms of D Ranges, for the algorithms that does *not* require random

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2015-07-12 Thread Nick B via Digitalmars-d
On Sunday, 12 July 2015 at 03:52:32 UTC, jmh530 wrote: On Saturday, 11 July 2015 at 03:02:24 UTC, Nick B wrote: FYI John Gustafson book is now out: I wouldn't have known about this way to deal with it if you hadn't bumped this thread. So thanks, it's interesting (not sure if this book

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2015-07-12 Thread Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d
On 12 Jul 2015 14:30, Shachar Shemesh via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 11/07/15 06:02, Nick B wrote: On Thursday, 20 February 2014 at 10:10:13 UTC, Nick B wrote: Hi everyone. John Gustafson Will be presenting a Keynote on Thursday 27th February at 11:00 am The

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2015-07-12 Thread Shachar Shemesh via Digitalmars-d
On 11/07/15 06:02, Nick B wrote: On Thursday, 20 February 2014 at 10:10:13 UTC, Nick B wrote: Hi everyone. John Gustafson Will be presenting a Keynote on Thursday 27th February at 11:00 am The abstract is here: http://openparallel.com/multicore-world-2014/speakers/john-gustafson/ There

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2015-07-11 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 7/10/15 11:02 PM, Nick B wrote: John Gustafson book is now out: It can be found here: http://www.amazon.com/End-Error-Computing-Chapman-Computational/dp/1482239868/ref=sr_1_1?s=booksie=UTF8qid=1436582956sr=1-1keywords=John+Gustafsonpebp=1436583212284perid=093TDC82KFP9Y4S5PXPY Very

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2015-07-11 Thread Timon Gehr via Digitalmars-d
On 07/11/2015 05:07 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 7/10/15 11:02 PM, Nick B wrote: John Gustafson book is now out: It can be found here:

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2015-07-11 Thread Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d
On Sat, 2015-07-11 at 11:07 -0400, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars -d wrote: On 7/10/15 11:02 PM, Nick B wrote: John Gustafson book is now out: It can be found here: http://www.amazon.com/End-Error-Computing-Chapman

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2015-07-11 Thread jmh530 via Digitalmars-d
On Saturday, 11 July 2015 at 03:02:24 UTC, Nick B wrote: FYI John Gustafson book is now out: I was just thinking about overflow (more for my own interest than a practical reason). I wouldn't have known about this way to deal with it if you hadn't bumped this thread. So thanks, it's

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2015-07-11 Thread ponce via Digitalmars-d
On Saturday, 11 July 2015 at 03:02:24 UTC, Nick B wrote: If you are at all interested in computer arithmetic or numerical methods, read this book. It is destined to be a classic. Sample chapter here: http://radiofreehpc.com/tmp/TheEndofErrorSampleChapter.pdf

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2015-07-10 Thread Nick B via Digitalmars-d
On Thursday, 20 February 2014 at 10:10:13 UTC, Nick B wrote: Hi everyone. John Gustafson Will be presenting a Keynote on Thursday 27th February at 11:00 am The abstract is here: http://openparallel.com/multicore-world-2014/speakers/john-gustafson/ There is also a excellent background

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-23 Thread Nick B
Hi I will ask my question again. Is there any interest in this format within the D community ? Nick

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-23 Thread Iain Buclaw
On 20 February 2014 22:46, bearophile bearophileh...@lycos.com wrote: Iain Buclaw: Most encoding formats use a form of discrete cosine transform, which involves floating point maths. I don't believe this much :-( :-( I looked up vorbis (very, very) briefly way of example. Most structs

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-22 Thread Ivan Kazmenko
On Friday, 21 February 2014 at 20:27:18 UTC, Frustrated wrote: On Friday, 21 February 2014 at 09:04:40 UTC, Ivan Kazmenko wrote: Thus repeating decimal for a fraction p/q will take up to q-1 bits when we store it as a repeating decimal, but log(p)+log(q) bits when stored as a rational number

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-22 Thread Ivan Kazmenko
On Saturday, 22 February 2014 at 14:17:23 UTC, Ivan Kazmenko wrote: Sometimes there is a non-degenerate pre-period part before the period: 13/10 = 1.0100110011 = 1.0(1001) as a binary fraction, the 1.0 part being the pre-period and the (1001) part the period. The same goes for decimal

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-21 Thread Ivan Kazmenko
On Friday, 21 February 2014 at 05:21:53 UTC, Frustrated wrote: I think though adding a repeating bit would make it even more accurate so that repeating decimals within the bounds of maximum bits used could be represented perfectly. e.g., 1/3 = 0.... could be represented perfectly with such a

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-21 Thread ponce
On Thursday, 20 February 2014 at 23:43:18 UTC, Nordlöw wrote: The unum variable length encoding is very similar to how msgpack packs integers. See msgpack-d on github for a superb implementation in D. msgpack-d is indeed a great library that makes serialization almost instant to implement.

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-21 Thread Chris Williams
On Friday, 21 February 2014 at 09:04:40 UTC, Ivan Kazmenko wrote: I believe that the repeating decimals, or better, repeating binary fractions, will hardly be more useful than a rational representation like p/q. Yeah, in retrospect I would say that a binary layout like: numberator length |

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-21 Thread Frustrated
On Friday, 21 February 2014 at 07:42:36 UTC, francesco cattoglio wrote: On Friday, 21 February 2014 at 05:21:53 UTC, Frustrated wrote: I think though adding a repeating bit would make it even more accurate so that repeating decimals within the bounds of maximum bits used could be represented

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-21 Thread Francesco Cattoglio
On Friday, 21 February 2014 at 19:12:39 UTC, Frustrated wrote: Simply not true. Maple, for example, uses constants and can compute using constants. You are mixing symbolic calculus and numerical computations. The two are completely unrelated. Basically the benefit of this(and potential)

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-21 Thread Frustrated
On Friday, 21 February 2014 at 19:59:36 UTC, Francesco Cattoglio wrote: On Friday, 21 February 2014 at 19:12:39 UTC, Frustrated wrote: Simply not true. Maple, for example, uses constants and can compute using constants. You are mixing symbolic calculus and numerical computations. The two are

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-21 Thread Frustrated
On Friday, 21 February 2014 at 09:04:40 UTC, Ivan Kazmenko wrote: On Friday, 21 February 2014 at 05:21:53 UTC, Frustrated wrote: I think though adding a repeating bit would make it even more accurate so that repeating decimals within the bounds of maximum bits used could be represented

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-20 Thread Nick B
On Thursday, 20 February 2014 at 10:10:13 UTC, Nick B wrote: Hi everyone. I'm attend the SKA conference in Auckland next week and I would like to discuss a opportunity for the D community. Sorry if I was not clear what the SKA is. In a nutshell is a truely massive telescope project

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-20 Thread John Colvin
On Thursday, 20 February 2014 at 10:10:13 UTC, Nick B wrote: Hi everyone. I'm attend the SKA conference in Auckland next week and I would like to discuss a opportunity for the D community. I am based in Wellington, New Zealand. In Auckland, NZ, from Tuesday to Friday next week there will

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-20 Thread Rikki Cattermole
On Thursday, 20 February 2014 at 10:10:13 UTC, Nick B wrote: Hi everyone. I'm attend the SKA conference in Auckland next week and I would like to discuss a opportunity for the D community. I am based in Wellington, New Zealand. In Auckland, NZ, from Tuesday to Friday next week there will

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-20 Thread w0rp
This is very interesting, thank you for sharing this. My knowledge of assembly, compilers, and how machines actually work is limited, but I knew enough about the details of floating point to get the gist of it. The diagrams in the PDF also helped. I hope someone does more research on this, as

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-20 Thread bearophile
Slide 6: Even the IEEE standard (1985) made choices that look dubious now On the other hand it's still working surprisingly well today. Negative zero. (ugh!) It's not bad. Slide 15: are (Page Rank and) mp3 Players using floating point values? Slide 18: is harder than doing THIS

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-20 Thread jerro
Regarding the variable length of his FP numbers, their energy savings are beer-based numbers, I don't think they have any experimental basis (yet). Also, because they are variable sized, you need to access them through pointers if you want random access. Now you are reading both the pointer

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-20 Thread Iain Buclaw
On 20 February 2014 15:26, bearophile bearophileh...@lycos.com wrote: Slide 6: Even the IEEE standard (1985) made choices that look dubious now On the other hand it's still working surprisingly well today. Negative zero. (ugh!) It's not bad. Slide 15: are (Page Rank and) mp3 Players

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-20 Thread Walter Bright
On 2/20/2014 2:10 AM, Nick B wrote: 1. Would it be possible to implement the unum representation in D and therefore make it a contender for the SKA ? Yes, as a library type. I don't think it'll save any energy, though. 2. Is there any interest in this format within the D community I

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-20 Thread bearophile
Iain Buclaw: Most encoding formats use a form of discrete cosine transform, which involves floating point maths. I don't believe this much :-( Bye, bearophile

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-20 Thread Francesco Cattoglio
On Thursday, 20 February 2014 at 10:10:13 UTC, Nick B wrote: The abstract is here: http://openparallel.com/multicore-world-2014/speakers/john-gustafson/ The pursuit of exascale floating point is ridiculous, since we do not need to be making 10^18 sloppy rounding errors per second; we need

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-20 Thread Nordlöw
Also, because they are variable sized, you need to access them through pointers if you want random access. Now you are reading both the pointer and the value from memory. We might not need random access though. For basic linear algebra forward or bidirectional should be enough which should

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-20 Thread jerro
We might not need random access though. Even if you don't need random access, you can't store them in a packed way if you want to be able to mutate them in place, since mathematical operations on them can change the number of bits they take. Depends on the application. I suspect that in

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-20 Thread Nordlöw
The unum variable length encoding is very similar to how msgpack packs integers. See msgpack-d on github for a superb implementation in D.

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-20 Thread Francesco Cattoglio
On Thursday, 20 February 2014 at 23:21:26 UTC, Nordlöw wrote: We might not need random access though. For basic linear algebra forward or bidirectional should be enough which should suit this format. Depends on the application. Basic Linear Algebra often requires sparse matrices. Sparse

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-20 Thread Chris Williams
On Thursday, 20 February 2014 at 23:13:20 UTC, Francesco Cattoglio wrote: On Thursday, 20 February 2014 at 10:10:13 UTC, Nick B wrote: The abstract is here: http://openparallel.com/multicore-world-2014/speakers/john-gustafson/ The pursuit of exascale floating point is ridiculous, since we

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-20 Thread Francesco Cattoglio
On Thursday, 20 February 2014 at 23:52:13 UTC, Chris Williams wrote: I don't quite understand his ubox stuff, but his unum format doesn't really solve the 0.1 problem, except maybe by allowing the size of his values to exceed 64-bits so that precision errors creap up a little bit slower. (I'm

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-20 Thread Frustrated
On Thursday, 20 February 2014 at 23:41:12 UTC, jerro wrote: We might not need random access though. Even if you don't need random access, you can't store them in a packed way if you want to be able to mutate them in place, since mathematical operations on them can change the number of bits

Re: Implement the unum representation in D ?

2014-02-20 Thread francesco cattoglio
On Friday, 21 February 2014 at 05:21:53 UTC, Frustrated wrote: I think though adding a repeating bit would make it even more accurate so that repeating decimals within the bounds of maximum bits used could be represented perfectly. e.g., 1/3 = 0.... could be represented perfectly with such