Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

On 10/17/2018 05:14 PM, info at smallinnovations dot nl wrote: The easiest way would be to make a connection with ssh  -X or -Y which enables X-forwarding. You then can start a individual X program from the commandline but also the complete WM. Perfectly showing how capable linux is in use. For

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

On 10/17/2018 09:10 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: You may end up with network delays for systems that are designed with the speed of a local video display in mind. Well I am not in a hurry. I would make a try in any case before the public demo, so if it does not work in acceptable way, I would tr

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

On 10/17/2018 10:16 PM, Bruce Ferrell wrote: For Linux stuff I've become somewhat fond of X2go Will check it. Tnx. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 13:07:19 +0200, Miroslav wrote in message <0a50e90e-0f7c-77c1-63f8-ce05b748f...@uns.ac.rs>: > On 10/17/2018 03:18 PM, terryc wrote: > > >> Machines can > >> ping each other now, so besides introducing Devuan, I also want to > >> introduce Ubuntu via Devuan by some kind of rem

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

> > For Ubuntu there is Remina or like (if I recall the proper name) but duno > what needs for Devuan. > > Misko Remains is also available from ascii-backports. —Tom ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailma

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 00:05:55 +1100, wirelessd...@gmail.com wrote in message <6ec111c6-d733-4e15-a944-e2419b63c...@gmail.com>: > > > > For Ubuntu there is Remina or like (if I recall the proper name) > > but duno what needs for Devuan. > > > > Misko > > Remains is also available from ascii-bac

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 01:07:19PM +0200, Miroslav Skoric wrote: > On 10/17/2018 03:18 PM, terryc wrote: > > > > Machines can > > > ping each other now, so besides introducing Devuan, I also want to > > > introduce Ubuntu via Devuan by some kind of remote GUI access or > > > like. Suggestions? Ple

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 01:14:25PM +0200, Miroslav Skoric wrote: > On 10/17/2018 09:10 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > > > You may end up with network delays for systems that are designed with > > the speed of a local video display in mind. > > > > Well I am not in a hurry. I would make a try in

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

> ..you mean remmina? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remmina > https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=remmina > https://manpages.debian.org/stretch-backports/remmina/remmina.1.en.html Sorry, yes. I blame autocorrect for that mistake. —Tom ___ Dng

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 13:07:19 +0200 Miroslav Skoric wrote: > On 10/17/2018 03:18 PM, terryc wrote: I'm going to start off by saying I'm unable to help you with your quest. In fact, my answers are basically like the local who is asked by a tourist "How do you get to blah-blah from here" and receiv

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 01:07:19PM +0200, Miroslav Skoric wrote: > On 10/17/2018 03:18 PM, terryc wrote: > > > > Machines can > > > ping each other now, so besides introducing Devuan, I also want to > > > introduce Ubuntu via Devuan by some kind of remote GUI access or > > > like. Suggestions? Ple

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 01:39:41PM +1100, terryc wrote: > On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 13:07:19 +0200 > Miroslav Skoric wrote: > > > > It's a seniors club, 70-75 at average. > > Err, how old do you think the people who developed the "Internet" are? > Don't assume they don't have capable minds. We live in

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

On 10/20/2018 02:42 PM, Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..http://www.pclinuxos.com/ has a reputation for being the easiest distro for your kinda newbie users. But it is not Devuan. ;o) ..https://www.qubes-os.org/ is also not Devuan, but an excellent way to set up Devuan safely and securely in, er, these

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

On 10/20/2018 04:31 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: It's a seniors club, 70-75 at average. Some of them are more-less fluent in (pirated) Window$ -based mouse clicking to browse the Net, email, and office. So my point is to show them that there are free & unrestricted alternatives. As I said I have two

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

On 10/22/2018 02:36 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: alternatives. As I said I have two machines there, one is wired to a big TV so they who sit in a last row can listen & watch. What is the other one wired to? A local small display? Both of them have their own small displays, and the faster box (D

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

On 10/22/2018 02:38 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: Err, how old do you think the people who developed the "Internet" are? Don't assume they don't have capable minds. We live in a world they built. I'm 72. Still capable mentally, though I need a cane to walk long distances. Don't need a cane to comp

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 11:01:01PM +0200, Miroslav Skoric wrote: > On 10/20/2018 02:42 PM, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > > > ..http://www.pclinuxos.com/ has a reputation for being the easiest > > distro for your kinda newbie users. But it is not Devuan. ;o) > > > > ..https://www.qubes-os.org/ is a

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 11:10:35PM +0200, Miroslav Skoric wrote: > On 10/20/2018 04:31 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > > > > > It's a seniors club, 70-75 at average. Some of them are more-less fluent > > > in > > > (pirated) Window$ -based mouse clicking to browse the Net, email, and > > > office.

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

Arnt Karlsen writes: > On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 00:05:55 +1100, wirelessd...@gmail.com wrote in > message <6ec111c6-d733-4e15-a944-e2419b63c...@gmail.com>: > >> > >> > For Ubuntu there is Remina or like (if I recall the proper name) >> > but duno what needs for Devuan. >> > >> > Misko >> >> Remains is

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

On Mon, 22 Oct 2018 23:10:35 +0200, Miroslav wrote in message <4149ab4f-76e2-f4e5-af96-38bd433dd...@uns.ac.rs>: > On 10/20/2018 04:31 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > >> > >> It's a seniors club, 70-75 at average. Some of them are more-less > >> fluent in (pirated) Window$ -based mouse clicking to br

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

On 10/23/18 1:45 PM, Arnt Karlsen wrote: Hendrik, both boxes came to the club installed with Window$, and I have to keep them that way ..easy now, if these has lawful copies of Wintendo installed, you _can_ keep them that way. Now if these are the pirated ones you spoke about, any judge wort

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

On 10/23/18 1:49 PM, Olaf Meeuwissen wrote: For access to other Linux boxen you may have to convince their sshd to do X11 forwarding (probably enabled by default) but once that's working you should have no problem showing their desktop on your Devuan machine using Remmina over SSH. Olaf, doe

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 14:51:48 +0200, Miroslav wrote in message : > On 10/23/18 1:45 PM, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > >> > >> Hendrik, both boxes came to the club installed with Window$, and I > >> have to keep them that way > > > > ..easy now, if these has lawful copies of Wintendo installed, you >

Re: [DNG] Devuan on RaspberryPi W Zero segfaults

On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 23:55:36 +0200, Dr. wrote in message <201810252355.36418.dr.kl...@gmx.at>: > Hi all! > > I have a problem with Devuan on s new RPi W Zero: Raspbian (latest > image) boots fine, ..does our own https://mirror.leaseweb.com/devuan/devuan_ascii/embedded/devuan_ascii_2.0.0_armel_

Re: [DNG] Devuan on RaspberryPi W Zero segfaults

Am Freitag, 26. Oktober 2018 schrieb Arnt Karlsen: > On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 23:55:36 +0200, Dr. wrote in message > <201810252355.36418.dr.kl...@gmx.at>: > > > Hi all! > > > > I have a problem with Devuan on s new RPi W Zero: Raspbian (latest > > image) boots fine, > > ..does our own > https://mir

Re: [DNG] Devuan on RaspberryPi W Zero segfaults

Am Freitag, 26. Oktober 2018 schrieb Dr. Nikolaus Klepp: > Am Freitag, 26. Oktober 2018 schrieb Arnt Karlsen: > > On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 23:55:36 +0200, Dr. wrote in message > > <201810252355.36418.dr.kl...@gmx.at>: > > > > > Hi all! > > > > > > I have a problem with Devuan on s new RPi W Zero: Ras

Re: [DNG] Devuan on RaspberryPi W Zero segfaults

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 07:27:14PM +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: > Some additional information: > - booting with devuan rpi1 image gives no serial console, but rpi boots (to > an unknown state) > - adding "enable_uart=1" in config.txt and booting does not work, rpi > activity led goes dark aft

Re: [DNG] Devuan on RaspberryPi W Zero segfaults

Am Freitag, 26. Oktober 2018 schrieb Gregory Nowak: > On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 07:27:14PM +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: > > Some additional information: > > - booting with devuan rpi1 image gives no serial console, but rpi boots (to > > an unknown state) > > - adding "enable_uart=1" in config.tx

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

Hi Miroslav, Miroslav Skoric writes: > On 10/23/18 1:49 PM, Olaf Meeuwissen wrote: > >> >> For access to other Linux boxen you may have to convince their sshd to >> do X11 forwarding (probably enabled by default) but once that's working >> you should have no problem showing their desktop on your

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

On 10/28/18 3:14 AM, Olaf Meeuwissen wrote: I don't think you need SSH when using VNC. I just happen to have used it only with SSH (and RDP). Sure. I'll test it more. Tnx! Misko ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.or

Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?

On 10/17/18 1:19 PM, Miroslav Skoric wrote: Hi all, I recently installed Devuan Jessie on a computer for presentations via large TV. And that machine is also directly wired in a small LAN to another box that runs some old Ubuntu (probably 12.04 or so, it is also just to tell the audience wha

[DNG] Devuan for Raspberry Pi fried SD CARD.

Hi everyone. Recently I have been using a Raspberry Pi 3B, obviously powered with Devuan, to run as music player. Restarting it yesterday, I was dismayed to discover it would not boot properly anymore, with long lists of errors complaining about not being able to write to the SD CARD. The latter i

[DNG] Devuan for Raspberry Pi fried SD CARD.

On 02/12/2018, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: [...] > > Do not use swap. > Use ramfs for /tmp and /var/tmp. > Turn off logging. > Mount / readonly. > Use "noatime" mountoption. > How can I use ramfs for /tmp and /var/tmp? And, also turn off logging? Can anyone post a sample /etc/fstab as a hint as to

[DNG] Devuan for Raspberry Pi fried SD CARD.

Running "update-rc.d rsyslog disable 2" resulted in error messages like the following: ERROR MESSAGE: insserv: warning: current start runlevel(s) A of script 'rsyslog' overrides LSB defaults B There were four lines with similar text but with A and B as follows: a) A = (3 4 5); B = (2 3 4 5) b) A

[DNG] Devuan for Raspberry Pi fried SD CARD.

Further Optimization: Is it possible to configure Devuan on Raspberry Pi 3B+, so that, bash_history, settings pertaining to bash, and other user configuration files from being updated every time such an application is used? If there is some other things I am not aware of, please inform me. Thank

[DNG] Devuan for Raspberry Pi fried SD CARD.

On 05/12/2018, Antony Stone wrote: > On Wednesday 05 December 2018 at 17:41:22, Edward Bartolo wrote: > >> Further Optimization: >> >> Is it possible to configure Devuan on Raspberry Pi 3B+, so that, >> bash_history, settings pertaining to bash, and other user >> configuration files from being upd

Re: [DNG] Devuan server outage -- Please read -- UPDATE

On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 10:14:35AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote: > Hi D1rs, > > we have experienced an outage to part of the Devuan infrastructure. As > a result, the following services are not currently reachable: > > - www.devuan.org > - packages.devuan.org > - *.mirror.devuan.org > - ci.devuan.org >

Re: [DNG] Devuan server outage -- Please read -- SOLVED

On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 11:39:39AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote: [cut] > > Hi All, > > still working on it. In the meanwhile, the website is back at > > http://www.dev-1.org > http://www.dev-one.org > > We will keep you posted with other updates. > Dear D1rs, just to let you know that everythin

[DNG] Devuan /etc/os-relase - no VERSION info?

Hi, I'm in the middle of patching a bunch of systems (Ubuntu, Devuan and Debian flavors) and noticed Devuan's /etc/os-release file doesn't contain any VERSION tags. This file comes in handy for parsing from shell scripts when lsb_release isn't installed or /etc/issue has been customized. Is

[DNG] Devuan Jessie End of Life (EOL) archiving

Friends, On 30th June 2020, Debian was scheduled to end its Long Term Support (LTS) for Debian 8 ('Jessie')[1]. As a result, the Devuan Project will be archiving its first release, codename Jessie. Since Jessie will receive no further maintenance or updates (including security fixes), it will be

[DNG] [Devuan 3] [Chmod] [Lynis] Bonked default permissions

I had run Lynis, a system-hardening auditor. At its suggestion, I changed numerous permissions system-wide. I have also changed conf files that alter book-time permissions. The following problems have occured: 1) Upon reboot, my /dev/snd is in a state that makes ALSA fail to recognize the audio de

Re: [DNG] Devuan 4.0 on Sophos firewall hardware

On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 13:24:26 + Mike Tubby wrote: > Just in case anyone is interested, I have had good success at installing > Devuan 4.0 on to second hand Sophos firewall hardware (XG115 and XG125, > Rev 3) to make light-weight firewalls and network appliances. Hi, I have it running on a S

Re: [DNG] devuan chimaera and NUT shutdown failure

Nate, On Sat, Apr 09, 2022 at 09:55:45AM -0700, nate wrote: > My Beowulf system has sysvinit (which shutdown appears to come from) version > 2.93-8+devuan1 and my Chimeara system has 2.96-7+devuan1. Nothing stands > out in the changelog for sysvinit to explain this kind of behavioral > change. You

Re: [DNG] devuan chimaera and NUT shutdown failure

On 2022-04-10 2:18, Mark Hindley wrote: Nate, On Sat, Apr 09, 2022 at 09:55:45AM -0700, nate wrote: My Beowulf system has sysvinit (which shutdown appears to come from) version 2.93-8+devuan1 and my Chimeara system has 2.96-7+devuan1. Nothing stands out in the changelog for sysvinit to explain

[Dng] Devuan Alpha i386 - developers release series on Vagrant

Hi all, This is the initial release of the Alpha series, base-system stripped at minimum and distributed in Vagrant format (virtualbox provider), to make the life of developers working on core components as vdev easier. Vagrant is a very cool tool, check it out http://vagrantup.com I'll distrib

[Dng] Devuan Alpha i386 - developers release series on Vagrant

:11:35 +0100 From: Jaromil To: dng Subject: [Dng] Devuan Alpha i386 - developers release series on Vagrant Message-ID: <20150307011135.GA8357@fork> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi all, This is the initial release of the Alpha series, base-system strippe

[Dng] Devuan Alpha i386 - developers release series on Vagrant

-- >Message: 4 >Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 11:48:18 -0300 >From: hellekin >To: dng@lists.dyne.org >Subject: Re: [Dng] Devuan Alpha i386 - developers release series on Vagrant >Message-ID: <54fb0fb2.9050...@dyne.org> >Content-Type: text/

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

Hi Anto, I think the plan is to make the installation of all systemd components optional. The packages in git.devuan.org that are cloned from Debian's sources have build flags set automatically to compile out systemd dependencies, for example. If you're wondering what's pulling in libsystemd0 in

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On 18/03/15 00:56, Jude Nelson wrote: Hi Anto, I think the plan is to make the installation of all systemd components optional. The packages in git.devuan.org that are cloned from Debian's sources have build flags set automatically to compile out systemd dependencies,

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

That's very interesting. Devuan's dbus shouldn't depend on libsystemd0 at all (it builds and runs without it); if it is pulling in libsystemd0 as a dependency, then there's a bug in our dbus package. Can you show me the output of: $ aptitude show dbus $ apt-cache rdepends dbus Also, if it is co

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Tue, 17 Mar 2015 21:00:49 +0100 Anto wrote: > Will Devuan be really free from systemd and its components? Or will > there be trade-off being applied so that some of systemd components > will be used in Devuan? Of course, I can't answer authoritatively, because my only role in the project i

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On 18/03/15 15:47, Jude Nelson wrote: That's very interesting. Devuan's dbus shouldn't depend on libsystemd0 at all (it builds and runs without it); if it is pulling in libsystemd0 as a dependency, then there's a bug in our dbus package. Can you show me the output of: $ aptitude show dbus $

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Wed 18 March 2015 19:07:09 Anto wrote: > root@v01:~# apt-cache policy dbus > dbus: >Installed: 1.8.14-1.0nosystemd1 >Candidate: 1.8.14-1.0nosystemd1 >Package pin: 1.8.14-1.0nosystemd1 >Version table: > 1.8.16-1 990 > 110 http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ jessie/main i3

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On March 18, 2015 6:29:37 PM WET, Joerg Reisenweber wrote: >On Wed 18 March 2015 19:07:09 Anto wrote: >> root@v01:~# apt-cache policy dbus >> dbus: >>Installed: 1.8.14-1.0nosystemd1 >>Candidate: 1.8.14-1.0nosystemd1 >>Package pin: 1.8.14-1.0nosystemd1 >>Version table: >> 1.8.

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On 18/03/15 19:31, Nextime wrote: Do NOT use apt.devuan.org, the devuan packages are on packages.devuan.org I don't think all packages are on packages.devuan.org yet as below. But please don't worry about that, as I perfectly understand that the work on this is still in progress. I brought th

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On 18/03/15 15:52, Steve Litt wrote: >From my Manjaro Experiments experience, I would be neither surprised nor dissapointed if the first beta release of Devuan had some remaining systemd'isms. It's a step, in the right direction, on the journey toward complete independence from all things syste

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Thu, 19 Mar 2015 09:35:43 +0100 Anto wrote: > What I am afraid of is that, along the line some powerful people in > Devuan will make a trade-off in using systemd components. For > instance, they decide to integrate a super-dupper package which > requires systemd components, e.g. for DE, which

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

Le 19/03/2015 21:15, Steve Litt a écrit : If anyone want's Gnome for Devuan, let that be in a "contaminated" repository (and yes, that's what I believe it should be called), Hi steve. As discussed in another thread, there are certainly other packages affected by the big-brother syndro

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Fri, 3/20/15, Didier Kryn wrote: Subject: Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied? To: dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Friday, March 20, 2015, 10:48 AM Le 19/03/2015 21:15, Steve Litt a écrit : > If anyone want's Gnome for Devuan, let that be in a "contaminated&

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Fri 20 March 2015 08:56:47 Go Linux wrote: > I support this idea. Put all the systemd stuff in a 'quarantine' repo with > the appropriate 'use at your own risk' caveats. I'd like to suggest a more generic approach, based on (quick shot suggestion to get refined) listing the number of direct a

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 17:13:17 +0100 Joerg Reisenweber wrote: > On Fri 20 March 2015 08:56:47 Go Linux wrote: > > I support this idea. Put all the systemd stuff in a 'quarantine' > > repo with the appropriate 'use at your own risk' caveats. > > I'd like to suggest a more generic approach, based o

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On 20/03/15 16:56, Go Linux wrote: On Fri, 3/20/15, Didier Kryn wrote: Le 19/03/2015 21:15, Steve Litt a écrit : If anyone want's Gnome for Devuan, let that be in a "contaminated" repository (and yes, that's what I believe it should be called), Hi steve. As discussed in anothe

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 01:44:55PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > Let me give an analogy that's absolutely offtopic here, I use it only Not as off-topic as you might think. > as an analogy. Three years ago, I made a policy that no KDE library or > software would ever exist on any of Troubleshooter

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

Steve Litt wrote: > What would especially float my boat, once there's a truly depoetterized > Devuan, is to have the package manager warn me at 160 decibles if I > decide to install something that pulls in any systemd code, because if > there's a way to run without systemd code, that's how I want t

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 09:40:43 -1000 Joel Roth wrote: > Steve Litt wrote: > > What would especially float my boat, once there's a truly > > depoetterized Devuan, is to have the package manager warn me at 160 > > decibles if I decide to install something that pulls in any systemd > > code, because i

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 20:07:05 +0100 Anto wrote: > > On 20/03/15 16:56, Go Linux wrote: > > On Fri, 3/20/15, Didier Kryn wrote: > > > > Le 19/03/2015 21:15, Steve Litt a écrit : > >> If anyone want's Gnome for Devuan, let that be in a "contaminated" > >> repository (and yes, that's what I belie

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On 20/03/15 21:08, Steve Litt wrote: Anto, You're absolutely right. So let me modify my idea... If anybody *chooses* to integrate an app with any direct or indirect systemd dependencies, that person must put their package in the "contaminated" or "quarantine" repository, and that person is res

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 04:01:28PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 09:40:43 -1000 > Joel Roth wrote: > > > Steve Litt wrote: > > > What would especially float my boat, once there's a truly > > > depoetterized Devuan, is to have the package manager warn me at 160 > > > decibles if I

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Fri 20 March 2015 16:08:24 Steve Litt wrote: > If anybody *chooses* to integrate an app with any direct or indirect > systemd dependencies, that person must put their package in the > "contaminated" or "quarantine" repository, It seems the discussion is a tad missing the point, since a) devuan

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 9:09 PM, Joerg Reisenweber wrote: > My guess would be that all rogue stuff like > systemd simply doesn't show up in devuan's packages.gz, and thus any package > depending on it would run into unmet dependencies when trying to install it. Makes sense. __

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 10:09:20PM +0100, Joerg Reisenweber wrote: > > for details on how all this works on apt level with the devuan overlay over > debian, you rather ask nextime. My guess would be that all rogue stuff like > systemd simply doesn't show up in devuan's packages.gz, and thus any

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Fri 20 March 2015 18:08:51 Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 10:09:20PM +0100, Joerg Reisenweber wrote: > > for details on how all this works on apt level with the devuan overlay > > over > > debian, you rather ask nextime. My guess would be that all rogue stuff > > like > > systemd

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

-Original Message- > On Fri 20 March 2015 08:56:47 Go Linux wrote: > > I support this idea. Put all the systemd stuff in a 'quarantine' > > repo with the appropriate 'use at your own risk' caveats. > From: Steve Litt [mailto:sl...@troubleshooters.com] What would especially float my

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 21:43:46 +0100 Anto wrote: > > On 20/03/15 21:08, Steve Litt wrote: > > Anto, > > > > You're absolutely right. So let me modify my idea... > > > > If anybody *chooses* to integrate an app with any direct or indirect > > systemd dependencies, that person must put their package

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Fri 20 March 2015 22:09:20 Joerg Reisenweber wrote: > for details on how all this works on apt level with the devuan overlay over > debian, you rather ask nextime. Rather first look here: https://git.devuan.org/devuan-infrastructure/amprolla/blob/master/README.md signature.asc Description: T

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 03:33:20AM +0100, Joerg Reisenweber wrote: > On Fri 20 March 2015 22:09:20 Joerg Reisenweber wrote: > > for details on how all this works on apt level with the devuan overlay over > > debian, you rather ask nextime. > > Rather first look here: > https://git.devuan.org/dev

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

We all agree that Devuan was born to be systemd-free and this looks like a sustainable goal to begin with. But I understood this thread started with questioning the long term policy. For sure, if one wants systemd, this one should install Debian, or RH. Also, to all of us, anybody tryi

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

Didier Kryn wrote: We all agree that Devuan was born to be systemd-free and this looks like a sustainable goal to begin with. But I understood this thread started with questioning the long term policy. For sure, if one wants systemd, this one should install Debian, or RH. Also, to all

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Sat, 3/21/15, Miles Fidelman wrote: Subject: Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied? To: dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Saturday, March 21, 2015, 11:25 AM Didier Kryn wrote: > We all agree that Devuan was born to be systemd-free and this > looks like a sustainable g

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 17:04:00 +0100 Didier Kryn wrote: > However, the long term policy of Devuan can't be "We hate > systemd and Lennart Poetering". Instead Devuan should advertize the > reasons to reject software like systemd, in the form of a set of > rules for acceptability, in a sensible

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

I think what we're after is a way to accept/reject software based on a well-defined set of acceptance criteria. It sounds like we're trying to say that the mission statement of Devuan is something like "Devuan prioritizes the inclusion of Free Software that follows the Unix software design philoso

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 03:56:01PM -0400, Jude Nelson wrote: > I think what we're after is a way to accept/reject software based on a > well-defined set of acceptance criteria. It sounds like we're trying to > say that the mission statement of Devuan is something like "Devuan > prioritizes the inc

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

> -Original Message- > From: Didier Kryn [mailto:k...@in2p3.fr] > Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2015 11:04 AM > To: dng@lists.dyne.org > Subject: Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied? > > We all agree that Devuan was born to be systemd-free and

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 04:31:31PM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote: > That is, prioritizing rather than excluding. So we can still, for > example, keep the linux kernel. :) The kernel is replaceable. Don't forget about kfreebsd (ok, hurd's state is a bad joke). Of course, the pro-systemd party has

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

> On March 21, 2015 at 12:25 PM Miles Fidelman > wrote: > Perhaps it's time to add something along the lines of "the freedom to > install software without it taking over your machine" (obviously this > needs work, or we'd it would eliminate things like the kernel, file > system, etc.). > > Miles

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 16:00:40 -0500 "T.J. Duchene" wrote: > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Didier Kryn [mailto:k...@in2p3.fr] > > Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2015 11:04 AM > > To: dng@lists.dyne.org > > Subject: Re: [Dng]

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

Le 21/03/2015 17:52, Go Linux a écrit : On Sat, 3/21/15, Miles Fidelman wrote: Subject: Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied? To: dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Saturday, March 21, 2015, 11:25 AM Didier Kryn wrote: We all agree that Devuan was born to be systemd

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 12:04:17PM +0100, Didier Kryn wrote: > > True. This description of the project contains already a lot of > the ideas we are shaking on the list. > > There are still concerns about the fact that some of the > software we use are big hairballs and enforce technical l

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Sat, 2015-03-21 at 17:04 +0100, Didier Kryn wrote: > However, the long term policy of Devuan can't be "We hate systemd > and Lennart Poetering". Instead Devuan should advertize the reasons to > reject software like systemd, in the form of a set of rules for > acceptability, in a sensib

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

Hi John, I think the general consensus right now is that Devuan prioritizes the inclusion of Free Software that adheres to the Unix software design philosophy. Like Debian, Devuan strives to be a Universal Operating System by giving users as much freedom as possible in the choice of what software

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

Might add that unix programs are configured by editing text files, often in /etc or $HOME, and have a certain tendency towards conceptual simplicity. If something can't be reasonably described in a man page, then that thing does not have the tao of unix. The original schism was multics/unix. U

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

Hi Jude. Your 4 points are expliciting very clearly, I think, what mean DOTADIW, or simply Unix principles. I think that these principles, plus the decision method you give - always favor a Unix-wise solution when there is - make a good and simple policy. I think what people on this l

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On 03/26/2015 06:53 PM, Jude Nelson wrote: Hi John, [...] I took a stab at stating what "Unix software design philosophy" means earlier up the thread, but I'll reproduce it here for your convenience: "Do one thing and do it well." It looks to me like you're trying to work backwards for a d

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 06:53:54PM -0400, Jude Nelson wrote: [cut] > > I took a stab at stating what "Unix software design philosophy" means > earlier up the thread, but I'll reproduce it here for your convenience: > > """ > 0. A program is a file that contains executable data (e.g. a binary, a

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 18:58:45 + KatolaZ wrote: > On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 06:53:54PM -0400, Jude Nelson wrote: > > [cut] > > > > > I took a stab at stating what "Unix software design philosophy" > > means earlier up the thread, but I'll reproduce it here for your > > convenience: > > > > ""

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 04:12:46PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > > > > Point 2 has problems as well, because sometimes a package contains > > several programs (the first example that comes to my mind is postfix, > > but you have thousands of other examples out there) which are > > orthogonal yet

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

You wrote: > [lots of good points snipped] > > 1. For want of a better term, GNU/Linux. The original POSIX/UNIX > Operating System with Linux as the OS kernel, Glibc (usually) as the C > Library, a mix of BSD and GNU userland, the GNU toolchain and X for > workstations along with one of the many

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

Hi John, KatolaZ, (addressing both of these points, since they're related) > It looks to me like you're trying to work backwards for a definition of "Unix" that excludes systemd while retaining all the software that does not adhere to that design philosophy. I think that's a bad idea-- it doesn'

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 11:29:53PM +0100, marc wrote: > And maybe even: > > - minimising the size and dependency graph of the essential > system. I have had friends worry that the base Debian seems > to have been growing each year so that it doesn't fit onto > small/embedded systems anymore

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

On Fri, 2015-03-27 at 16:37 +0100, Didier Kryn wrote: > Hi John, > > When I wrote anti-freedom, I considered a stricter definition of > freedom than GPL, beyond free access to the source and gratuitous > redistribution, including e.g. the absence of technical lock-in. I won't > argue

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