I'm hoping that the increase in reverse beacons will help spot the illegal
power merchants, that will be a good start.
David
G3UNA
On 9/14/2012 1:23 AM, Jan Erik Holm wrote:
> Nothing new under the sun. It´s been around for decades. There are even
> contest stations that puts their amplifiers in
I'm hoping that the increase in reverse beacons will help spot the illegal
power merchants, that will be a good start.
David
G3UNA
On 9/14/2012 1:23 AM, Jan Erik Holm wrote:
> Nothing new under the sun. It´s been around for decades. There are even
> contest stations that puts their amplifiers in
>
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jan Erik Holm
> Sent: Saturday, 15 September 2012 5:02 AM
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Phase Noise / CW Key Clicks
>
> On 2
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jan Erik Holm
Sent: Saturday, 15 September 2012 5:02 AM
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Phase Noise / CW Key Clicks
On 2012-09-14 18:33, David Gilbert wrote:
>
> I don'
Well said Jim
-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jan Erik Holm
Sent: Saturday, 15 September 2012 4:59 AM
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Phase Noise / CW Key Clicks
On 2012-09-14 18:38
David Gilbert wrote:
>
>True. As I said in another post, I'd love to see someone write an SDR
>application that captured and quantified such things, but in the
>absence of that screenshots from a scrolling spectrum display
>(waterfall) would help. The problem is that you lose the amplitude
>i
On 2012-09-14 22:15, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> Key clicks are CW modulation sidebands. Key click management is about having
> CW sidebands that occupy a reasonable amount of the spectrum, not
> eliminating them entirely. Eliminating clicks (the sidebands) is easily done
> - just don't key the signa
*AND mouse clicks...:-)
73
*
On 15 September 2012 06:46, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:
> Let's end this thread (regarding policing of on air tx signals etc) now in
> the interest of reducing list noise level.
>
> 73,
> Eric
> Elecraft List Moderator
> www.elecraft.com
> _..._
>
>
>
> On S
Unfortunately in this litigious society, "calling out" someone for
outrageous behavior like intentionally generating key-clicks or "wide"
modulation can leave one exposed to lawsuits for defamation and/or
slander.
Without automatically generated, objective and unassailable data, I
sure would not
On 2012-09-14 22:21, David Gilbert wrote:
>
> I only said "almost no clicks" because I don't believe in absolutes.
>
OK then I know where you stand.
>
> Please identify what level (in db referenced to the main carrier within
> some defined bandwidth) you believe clicks are generated by the K3 and
Let's end this thread (regarding policing of on air tx signals etc) now in the
interest of reducing list noise level.
73,
Eric
Elecraft List Moderator
www.elecraft.com
_..._
On Sep 14, 2012, at 1:32 PM, David Gilbert wrote:
>
> True. As I said in another post, I'd love to see someone write
It's time for this thread to end - what say moderator?
Rod/w7zrc
> Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 22:42:01 +0200
> From: sm2...@bdtv.se
> CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Phase Noise / CW Key Clicks
>
> On 2012-09-14 21:34, Jim Brown wrote:
> &g
On 2012-09-14 21:34, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 9/14/2012 12:02 PM, Jan Erik Holm wrote:
>> So if I don´t report those guys I´m as bad as they are. Jeez, are you
>>
>> serious?
>
> When I was part of the American Civil Rights Movement many years ago, we
> learned that if you're not part of the solution,
True. As I said in another post, I'd love to see someone write an SDR
application that captured and quantified such things, but in the absence
of that screenshots from a scrolling spectrum display (waterfall) would
help. The problem is that you lose the amplitude information when you
use the
Yeah ... pretty much.
At the very least, if you aren't willing to publicly identify them you
don't have much right publicly complaining about them because yes ...
you are helping to make sure they have no reason to stop.
Dave AB7E
On 9/14/2012 12:02 PM, Jan Erik Holm wrote:
> So if I don´t
I only said "almost no clicks" because I don't believe in absolutes.
Please identify what level (in db referenced to the main carrier within
some defined bandwidth) you believe clicks are generated by the K3 and
describe how you measured it. I would be very interested in that
information.
D
Key clicks are CW modulation sidebands. Key click management is about having
CW sidebands that occupy a reasonable amount of the spectrum, not
eliminating them entirely. Eliminating clicks (the sidebands) is easily done
- just don't key the signal. But then you can't send CW.
73, Ron AC7AC
---
My DEL key is being profusely pounded of late... :-)
>So if I don´t report those guys I´m as bad as they are. Jeez, are you
>serious?
>Oh don´t answer it, I guess you are.
>/Jim SM2EKM
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.
On 9/14/2012 12:02 PM, Jan Erik Holm wrote:
> So if I don´t report those guys I´m as bad as they are. Jeez, are you
>
> serious?
When I was part of the American Civil Rights Movement many years ago, we
learned that if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the
problem. Yes, I am QUITE
> I don't scan the bands
>looking for bad signals because I spend my time contesting instead, but
>I always jot down the callsigns of the really bad signals I find and I
>highlight the worst of them in my 3830 report. I've seen others do the
>same, although it would certainly help if everyone did.
On 2012-09-14 18:33, David Gilbert wrote:
>
> I don't doubt that at all, but to be bluntly honest, if you have first
> hand knowledge of such cases why don't you publicly identify them???
> Hams are their own worst enemy by keeping silent about known cheating
> and general bad behavior. In my opi
On 2012-09-14 18:38, David Gilbert wrote:
>
> Why?? Elecraft uses a pretty effective waveform shaping algorithm in
> the K3 that produces almost no key clicks just the way it is with a
> short rise/fall time (about 2.5 msec if I remember correctly). What
> would be gained by increasing it, and why
I agree 100%
Bob
K6UJ
On Sep 14, 2012, at 9:38 AM, David Gilbert wrote:
>
> Why?? Elecraft uses a pretty effective waveform shaping algorithm in
> the K3 that produces almost no key clicks just the way it is with a
> short rise/fall time (about 2.5 msec if I remember correctly). What
> wo
I guess you don't read the 3830 reports then. I don't scan the bands
looking for bad signals because I spend my time contesting instead, but
I always jot down the callsigns of the really bad signals I find and I
highlight the worst of them in my 3830 report. I've seen others do the
same, alth
Why?? Elecraft uses a pretty effective waveform shaping algorithm in
the K3 that produces almost no key clicks just the way it is with a
short rise/fall time (about 2.5 msec if I remember correctly). What
would be gained by increasing it, and why would you want people to be
able to mess with
I don't doubt that at all, but to be bluntly honest, if you have first
hand knowledge of such cases why don't you publicly identify them???
Hams are their own worst enemy by keeping silent about known cheating
and general bad behavior. In my opinion, the person who does not speak
out become
On 9/14/2012 1:23 AM, Jan Erik Holm wrote:
> Nothing new under the sun. It´s been around for decades. There are even
> contest stations that puts their amplifiers in class C on SSB and I´m
> not talking about small amps but things in the 5 - 10 kW region.
These guys are much closer to EU than to m
Jim Brown-10 wrote
>
> On 9/13/2012 4:00 PM, Al Lorona wrote:
>> I once spoke to a nationally-known, "Big Gun" contester who felt that the
>> phase
>> noise and key click sidebands generated by his station were an asset
>> because
>> they cleared a "guard band" around his signal since other stati
tember 14, 2012 12:38 AM
To: Vic K2VCO
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Phase Noise / CW Key Clicks
*I have often suspected this happens. Some of the dirtiest signals found on
the band are contest stations we hear in VK from EU regions.
Maybe we should make it 59 for g
No ears "NO WIN"!
73,
Fred/N0AZZ
-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 6:08 PM
To: Al Lorona
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] P
elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 1:47 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Phase Noise / CW Key Clicks
On 9/12/2012 9:18 PM, Matt Zilmer wrote:
> The main real-world prob
: [Elecraft] [K3] Phase Noise / CW Key Clicks
On 9/12/2012 9:18 PM, Matt Zilmer wrote:
> The main real-world problem is that the K3 is a minority in the
> general ham rig population. Maybe someday, the K3 penetration rate
> will be high enough that we can hear it in how quiet the bands are.
On 2012-09-14 01:00, Al Lorona wrote:
> I once spoke to a nationally-known, "Big Gun" contester who felt that the
> phase
> noise and key click sidebands generated by his station were an asset because
> they cleared a "guard band" around his signal since other stations had to stay
> away. He felt
On 2012-09-13 20:46, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 9/12/2012 9:18 PM, Matt Zilmer wrote:
>> The main real-world problem is that the K3 is a minority in the
>> general ham rig population. Maybe someday, the K3 penetration rate
>> will be high enough that we can hear it in how quiet the bands are.
>> Crowde
On 2012-09-13 20:21, Bill W4ZV wrote:
>
> Matt Zilmer wrote
>>
>> Phase noise and key clicks are the enemy. I respectfully suggest that
>> Wayne emphasize (as well) that designing a transceiver to
>> intentionally not produce either of these is a worthy objective more
>> on a moral plane than an o
*I have often suspected this happens. Some of the dirtiest signals found on
the band are contest stations we hear in VK from EU regions.
Maybe we should make it 59 for good, 19 for bad...:-)
73
*
On 14 September 2012 14:51, Vic K2VCO wrote:
> This is very non-representative of contesters in gen
Very few in my fairly broad acquaintance. I've been contesting for half a
century and have belonged at times to PVRC, Murphys and NCCC.
/Rick N6XI
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 4:00 PM, Al Lorona wrote:
> I once spoke to a nationally-known, "Big Gun" contester who felt that the
> phase
> noise and ke
This is very non-representative of contesters in general. Look how many are
buying
click-free K3's!
On 9/13/2012 8:57 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 9/13/2012 4:00 PM, Al Lorona wrote:
>> I once spoke to a nationally-known, "Big Gun" contester who felt that the
>> phase
>> noise and key click sideba
It's been going on for years. Back in the 70's it was an open secret
that some big-gun contesters would intentionally overdrive their
amplifiers whenever they needed to clear out nearby QRM.
Alan N1AL
On Thu, 2012-09-13 at 20:57 -0700, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 9/13/2012 4:00 PM, Al Lorona wrote:
>
On 9/13/2012 4:00 PM, Al Lorona wrote:
> I once spoke to a nationally-known, "Big Gun" contester who felt that the
> phase
> noise and key click sidebands generated by his station were an asset because
> they cleared a "guard band" around his signal since other stations had to stay
> away. He felt
On 9/13/2012 4:20 PM, Rick Bates wrote:
> And peanut sized brains like most other dinosaurs...
I don't think alligators are related to or descended from dinosaurs, but
then I graduated in Math not Zoology.
Shameless plug for CQP follows,
73,
Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU i
One was a K3, not sure of the others. Some no-name Y/K/I types.
matt
On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 17:00:53 +0200, you wrote:
>Hello Matt,
>
>Interesting that the other stations whose phase noise pestered you, did not
>sense the presence of the K3's strong signal as the result of reciprocal
>mixing in
I too have heard such comments. My fervent hope is that someday someone
will write a piece of SDR software that quantifies such things by
callsign during a contest, and then posts the results to a web site
afterward. I'm pretty certain that it's technically feasible right now
to do so, at le
And peanut sized brains like most other dinosaurs...
Not quite extinct yet it seems.
Rick wa6nhc/kl
-Original Message-
From: Don Wilhelm
There will always be "alligators" - big mouth, small ears.
73,
Don W3FPR
On 9/13/2012 7:00 PM, Al Lorona wrote:
> I once spoke to a nationally-known
Sadly, Al- I believe quite a few "Big Guns" that enjoy reading their calls
in the contest reports feel exactly this way. To them it would be
detrimental to clean up their signals. They have no incentive at all to
care.
73,
Bruce, N1RX
> I once spoke to a nationally-known, "Big Gun" contester who
There will always be "alligators" - big mouth, small ears.
73,
Don W3FPR
On 9/13/2012 7:00 PM, Al Lorona wrote:
> I once spoke to a nationally-known, "Big Gun" contester who felt that the
> phase
> noise and key click sidebands generated by his station were an asset because
> they cleared a "gua
I once spoke to a nationally-known, "Big Gun" contester who felt that the phase
noise and key click sidebands generated by his station were an asset because
they cleared a "guard band" around his signal since other stations had to stay
away. He felt no motivation at all to clean up his signal. I
Us old f*rts have got to quit thinking analog.
K3 CW is not keyed. It's effectively data-graphed and fed directly
into a digital-analog converter (DAC). Remember, ZERO SIGNAL OUT in
TX state is A STREAM OF DATA VALUES sent to a DAC that is RUNNING, not
a stage that is switched off. The "keying ci
-Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ethan Miller K8GU
> Sent: September 13, 2012 2:48 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re
Hi,
Agreed on both points. Others have pointed out that wideband noise on
transmit is often much higher than the phase noise produced by the
synthesizer. My neighbor (3 doors = 240' away) is a good example of noise
produced by the transmit amplifiers rather than the synthesizer. He uses
mostly CW
* On 2012 13 Sep 14:25 -0500, Rick Tavan wrote:
> Although the dominant competitive specs these days are receiver
> measurements, the cleanliness of the K3 should get more press. It is
> perhaps a tough moral sell but drop-dead easy in the multi-TX market.
> And Field Day is the most popular activi
Although the dominant competitive specs these days are receiver measurements,
the cleanliness of the K3 should get more press. It is perhaps a tough moral
sell but drop-dead easy in the multi-TX market. And Field Day is the most
popular activity in US ham radio. In addition to enhancing K3 sales
icant. Unquote.
Thanks, guys.
73,
Gary VE1RGB
-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ethan Miller K8GU
Sent: September 13, 2012 2:48 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Phase Noise / C
On 9/12/2012 9:18 PM, Matt Zilmer wrote:
> The main real-world problem is that the K3 is a minority in the
> general ham rig population. Maybe someday, the K3 penetration rate
> will be high enough that we can hear it in how quiet the bands are.
> Crowded but quiet between signals that is.
Yes, B
voluntas non sufficit
-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill W4ZV
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 11:21 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Phase Noise / CW Key Clicks
Matt Zilmer
Matt Zilmer wrote
>
> Phase noise and key clicks are the enemy. I respectfully suggest that
> Wayne emphasize (as well) that designing a transceiver to
> intentionally not produce either of these is a worthy objective more
> on a moral plane than an operating advantage. Tactically, having
> cli
Interesting point---thanks for clarifying that, Alan.
At any rate, these other rigs were dirty and operating with them was a nuisance.
73,
--Ethan, K8GU/4.
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Alan Bloom wrote:
>> I was using my K3 in the vicinity
>> of several other operators who were using an IC
> I was using my K3 in the vicinity
> of several other operators who were using an IC-706MkIIG, an FT-857D,
> and an IC-7000. All of these other radios produced horrible in-band
> phase noise. When I asked them about it, they were completely unaware
> that I was on the band!
Assuming the same sy
I also had this problem recently: I was using my K3 in the vicinity
of several other operators who were using an IC-706MkIIG, an FT-857D,
and an IC-7000. All of these other radios produced horrible in-band
phase noise. When I asked them about it, they were completely unaware
that I was on the ba
Hello Matt,
Interesting that the other stations whose phase noise pestered you, did not
sense the presence of the K3's strong signal as the result of reciprocal
mixing in their receivers. Can you recall the model or models of
transceiver the others were using?
73,
Geoff
LX2AO
On September 1
Might be both.
matt
On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 08:41:20 -0400, you wrote:
>Very interesting. I was operating at our local submarine for Museum Ships
>Day, using my K2 in the field about 200 yards away from the sub from which
>they were operating SSB on 20 meters. I tried to operate 20m CW but the
>"who
Very interesting. I was operating at our local submarine for Museum Ships
Day, using my K2 in the field about 200 yards away from the sub from which
they were operating SSB on 20 meters. I tried to operate 20m CW but the
"whooshing" on the band anywhere in the CW segment was just too much. I
though
My case study may not be any less interesting than others you've
heard. During Field Day, 2011 K3 #24 (mine) was the centerpiece of
our group's CW effort. The group was a number of aligned clubs, and
we operated 12F (emergency operations center, 12 stations). You can
imagine the HF overlap invol
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