.
Theoretically, the schedule for CDV in April 2004 could JUST still be
met, but probably it won't be.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news
.
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Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
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PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical
yourselves? I suppose you will have that done by an acoustics
test house. So why not select one now, and discuss with them which
standards apply and how they apply? It's a very arcane field and
specialist advice, even if costly, can save you a lot of time, money and
frustration.
--
Regards, John
and IEC 3744 in particular.
That can't be right: there are no IEC standards with numbers like that.
Perhaps ISO?
--
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Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
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PLEASE
.
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Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
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PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!
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Technical
administrators
with minimal technical knowledge).
Brussels is the necessity of invention.
Brussels isn't necessary at all. (;-)
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Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
http
=CISPRpubno=16part=se=submit=Submit#projs
I don't have time now to get a tinyURL or makeashorterlink coded URL.
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PLEASE do
, the pertinent limitations of use
and how to comply without resorting to an EMC specialist', is added to
the cost of a simple DIMM.
;-)
True, but no doubt the hack who writes the instructions gets a mere
pittance, and the printing cost is minimal.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions
becomes more widespread, the
upper bound will probably be increased.
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-
market' product though, I suppose. It definitely needs to have both
Directives applied, *as far as they can apply* and be marked, if it CAN
be supplied other than to the military.
--
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Interested in professional sound
it is a product-family standard it applies anyway,
whether EN 55103-1 calls it up or not, and you would be correct, but
CLC/TC210 has decided otherwise.
--
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Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution
what it's for.
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PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!
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problem was confined to Europe or not. We now know that Japan also has a
problem, but the main problem in USA is hot neutrals rather than voltage
distortion. There are problems with harmonics in Canada, but it isn't
clear that they are mainly due to low-power equipment, AIUI.
--
Regards, John Woodgate
with the subject anyway.
--
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of the Directive making it
illegal to apply the mark in such cases of doubt!
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is true. The PC assembler has no way of knowing that it is
true if he just relies on the DOCs of the parts.
However, the Guidelines also indicate that such an assumption is likely
to be justified for purely electrical control consoles for electrical
machines.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own
to write
standards that are totally lucid? I expect the relevant TAG would
welcome your input.
Some have questioned whether 61000-3-2 is even an EMC standard!
If not, what do you think it is?
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Interested in professional
considers the modem card a system -
No, modem cards required CE marking under the EMCD before the RTTED
existed.
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is necessary. A clarification is almost
always necessary when someone reports a problem of this nature.
I am requesting your personal involvement to assist in resolving this
repeatability question.
I will do what I can, but I cannot do everything.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only
'.
It does, but it is not very explicit guidance. In fact, it's quite vague
when you come to practical cases.
--
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Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
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PLEASE do
equipment.
I can't understand how a
customer-oriented quality system can't be crafted to meet the needs
of all of the customers of that system.
Indeed.
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Interested in professional sound reinforcement
require CE
marking if sold to the general pubic, but a modem card has to be
incorporated in larger equipment.
The real situation is that no clear distinction has yet been
established.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Interested in professional sound
the committee has not received any request for an official
interpretation.
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/
Video.
This is a known mis-application of the standard. The EN 60335-2-82
standard is the correct one, but I don't have a copy.
--
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Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
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Factor Correction option
may be mandatory. Be aware of fundamental differences between IEC
61000-3-2:2000 and EN 61000-3-2:2000
75 W, not 50 W.
--
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Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go
proposed**. It seems impossible to devise a method of testing such
devices for which the result depends only on the characteristics of the
device and not those of the things it is connected between.
Incidentally, it appears that detachable mains leads are 'caught' by
this new provision!
--
Regards, John
, but sometimes 50 to 150 ohms does make an improvement.
This is not predictable; you have to experiment.
Make sure, from the capacitor data sheets, that the self-resonant
frequencies of your capacitors are much higher than the frequencies
being emitted.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions
the fundamental reason.
Or you could just use a screened cable and bear that matter in mind for
the next product.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see
for the different
measurement distance. If you give insufficient data, you WILL get
misleading responses.
Please note that the 3.2 db @ 135.6 MHz difference is NOT within
expectations.
It is within MY expectations, given the differences between the two sets
of tests.
--
Regards, John
type?
To have confidence that your design is satisfactory for production, if
you are not going to test every unit produced, the measured emissions of
your test samples should be at least 6 dB below the limit.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing
an objective approach and perhaps an apology.
I'll suggest 'Cease and desist' on this subject, a microsecond before
Rich Nute does. (;-)
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http
is not without honour, except in his own country.' Especially
a prophet of doom, as so many compliance engineers find they have to be.
DESIGN-IN safety and EMC, then there need be no 'doom'! And the cost-
saving can be enormous.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news
are NOT agreed by all parties.
'Domestic animals' can be almost anything short of a tiger or elephant.
My friend's grandson has stick insects and they could easily get into
the TV!
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news
under discussion, I believe.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
technologies website, monel contains
Copper Iron and Tin. I assumed that the Iron would impart a
permeability higher than 1.
Fe 2% typical. The data sheets that I looked at don't even mention
magnetic properties.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing
, so oxidizing trivalent to hexavalent requires an
even stronger one, otherwise the reaction would go the other way. But
stranger things have happened.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http
Family Standard, that refers to
CISPR16 Parts where necessary.
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Eat mink and be dreary!
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, and thus appears in the corresponding (but not necessarily
identical) EN 550xx series of European standards.
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Eat mink and be dreary!
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This message is from the IEEE EMC Society
, but what is the alternative to using
existing words but with special definitions that make their meanings
more precise? If you solve this one, you clear up a significant problem
in standards-writing.
--
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Eat mink
are?
I don't know at present, but I may be able to find out next week. The
explanation I have seen was said by some people in EDF to be wrong, and
they should know!
--
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Eat mink and be dreary
, that the first fault is not undetected and does not
persist.
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to the letter of the law you
may not need to.
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now
be carrying microprocessor (if there is one) clock signals at a higher
amplitude than before. Carry out any tests you consider necessary to
give confidence in your DOC for the modified end-product.
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Eat mink
.
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with the
output voltage of a power supply operating in foldback.
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I read in !emc-pstc that eric.lif...@ni.com wrote (in
of5431d5be.3bcd92cd-on86256aff.0061d...@natinst.com) about 'Define
Continuous DC Voltage', on Fri, 9 Nov 2001:
John Woodgate commented:
[...]
A digital signal that has one value at 0 V to ground and the other value
at voltage V consists
indicates that a DC
interrupted at a rate of 200 Hz or less is limited to 24.8 V peak. In
the same clause it mentions a continuous DC voltage of 60 V DC is
permissible.
UNQUOTE
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Eat mink and be dreary
, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
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to the UK, if you are referring to EN55022.
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Eat mink and be dreary!
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not merit an apology, Mr Ritenour does !
Mr. Ritenour has sent me an e-mail which indicates that no apology is
required.
However, I place on record that I NEVER intend any offence, especially
on this mail list, whatever you may infer from what I write.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions
of, the many authoritative (IEEE?) papers that extol the
'design-it-in' philosophy.
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exotic wood could
approach it in cost.
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familiar to everyone in 120V territory are
unknown
in the UK.)
Not so; the rings in my house have 32 A miniature breakers, not fuses.
The lighting circuits have 6 A breakers. The water heater has a 16 A
breaker.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Eat
that are normally used to isolate the operator (and others) from a hazard.
In electrical safety land that's mostly an electrical hazard
A safety-critical component may be related to a fire hazard, not a shock
hazard.
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products makes you shudder now.
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without an earth but the earth may be fitted if
desired. What about the square in square symbol?
If you provide a 3-core cable, you MUST NOT refer to the product as
'Class 2' or put the double-square symbol on it. But you can explain in
the instructions book, if you want to.
--
Regards, John
-appraisals of requirements and the
elimination of unnecessary regulation are bad in themselves, but they
must not be carried to excess.
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This message
product, where we had one unit (out
of about 200 000 product units that we shipped) with a screw through the
mains lead - a hazard that everyone had missed.
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from them.
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and moisture controlled) a value of
0.76
of Teflon can be used for calculation of properties.
Value for what? Cost? (;-)
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I read in !emc-pstc that Doug McKean dmck...@corp.auspex.com wrote (in
004201c163fd$9beab310$3e3e3...@corp.auspex.com) about 'Safety
Critical etc - the future', on Fri, 2 Nov 2001:
John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk
If you are referring to my post, I plan to report that there is
discussion
prowess.
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.
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.
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should proceed from here?
I will raise the question at a meeting of what will be IEC TC108/WG2 in
London later this month.
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, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
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, but not yet!
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direction to safely
support 200 lb.
6) Suggestions on length width?
Bigger than the biggest unit you want to put on it? 1 m by 0.5 m might
be convenient.
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Eat mink and be dreary
I read in !emc-pstc that Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com wrote
(in 20011101170447.RTSO12020.femail23.sdc1.sfba.home.com@[65.11.150.27]
) about 'Have we lost something? was John Woodgate - RE: New EMC
standards; now CISPR24/EN55024 query', on Thu, 1 Nov 2001:
My opinion only
sets in
the 70s and 80s. Consequently, the German authorities do not favour
relaxation in this matter.
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I read in !emc-pstc that Gregg Kervill gkerv...@eu-link.com wrote (in
002f01c162e8$ca3f3800$7300a8c0@MENHADEN) about 'Have we lost
something? was John Woodgate - RE: New EMC standards; now
CISPR24/EN55024 query', on Thu, 1 Nov 2001:
Is there a need for a recognized EMC or safety credential
use of appropriate cables. Installations are assessed for EMC
only in case of complaint (of either excessive emission or inadequate
immunity).
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Eat mink and be dreary
, either.
Things are changing, even in CISPR. And while deliberation may not
always be a bad thing, a lack of immunity in an industrial computer must
always be a bad thing, and very possibly a BAD THING!
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Eat mink
at 3 m? I'm a tiny bit skeptical that this
was the intent. Or has this practice been accepted?
I think so. 10 m facilities are very rare in some countries.
--
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Eat mink and be dreary
for not allowing it for Class A? Is it assumed
that Class A products might be larger?
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not be limited in where they can be marketed,
just that a warning label should be added to them about potential
interference in a residential environment.
This is irrelevant, and, as you well know, out of step with other EMC
standards, including FCC.
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Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions
have merged to form CISPR/I.
But your point is well made. For the industrial environment, in the
absence of any limits in CISPR 24, you should apply the Generic
IEC/EN61000-6-2 for new designs.
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Eat mink
the new limits be (may
be 10 dB higher)?
You need to look in the standard to see if that is allowed. If it is
allowed, the 10 dB factor is to be used, but measurements at 10 m are
definitive.
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Eat mink and be dreary
around products that have at least a mains
lead and often other external cables. I suppose the robot lawn-mower
does not have external cables.
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Eat mink and be dreary
installation?
Immunity is VERY important. We don't want these things running amok
every time an EM disturbance occurs!
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I read in !emc-pstc that David Heald davehe...@mediaone.net wrote (in
3bdd7a08.5c37a...@mediaone.net) about 'IEC 60950-1 released', on Mon,
29 Oct 2001:
Is this equivalent to UL 60950? If so, the differences may be
substantial.
Not precisely equivalent, AFAIK.
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not been
published yet.
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if necessary.
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Scope clauses of standards
also freely available, but it hasn't happened yet. http://www.iec.ch
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A fuse or 32 A MCB. No 50 A.
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got to be somewhere in
this range, right?
I'm surprised that you can't find this information on the web. The
length of the pipe is a significant factor if the 60 psi is applied at
the far end.
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Eat mink and be dreary
and the Low Voltage Directive. Do we use the actual power
output, e.g. 3 W, or the PMPO, e.g. 400 W to calculate the output
voltage, to see if we need to use the 'safe' type of connector? (;-)
Let's see; 400 W in 8 ohms is 56.6 V - yes, we need the safe connector!
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, or, of course, may not, apply in Oz.
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like to be
asked questions in advance of a submission, rather than have to deal
with a refusal for a purely formal violation such as incorrect
labelling.
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to do this although in
practice it will be frowned upon.
If you have any evidence of this, please tell me, because the DTI have
given assurances that it ('frowning') is not the case: professional
products don't need plugs.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http
as EN
60073. But I don't know if any ETSI standard refers to it.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Eat mink and be dreary!
---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc
a term 'Relative Temperature Index' that is abbreviated
RTI.
Or perhaps you meant 'Temperature', and not 'Tracking'!
IEC uses the concept of 'Material Groups' to deal with resistance to
tracking.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Eat mink and be dreary
by the
installer according to the installation instructions?
Not to Continental countries, AIUI, because rewirable plugs are not
available (maybe in Denmark still). To UK, not if it's to be sold
retail, but it's OK for other products.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http
I read in !emc-pstc that Leslie Bai leslie_...@yahoo.com wrote (in
20011002170853.30484.qm...@web10904.mail.yahoo.com) about 'Marine
Equipment', on Tue, 2 Oct 2001:
Hormonized
Really? What physiological effect do(es) the hormone(s) have?
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http
on broadcast sites it can be discussed if
the most relevant Class is A or B.
For Europe, such equipment should be assessed under EN55103-1 and -2.
The broadcast studio environment is regarded as special in these
standards.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http
then goes to
CENELEC Technical Board and I'm not sure when the next meeting of CLC/BT
is.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Eat mink and be dreary!
---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
, pda, laptop)?
Go to http://www.iec.ch and look for information about IEC60068 and
IEC60512 (both multi-part standards).
2. any test lab who does such testing?
That depends on where you are in the world.
how common is such testing?
Quite common.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only
many discharges one
uses.
I agree that some product standards need to be more searching and/or
stringent than the Basic Standard.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Eat mink and be dreary!
---
This message is from
. I suspect that Uncle Bill at
Redmond is sometimes blamed for minor manifestations of Thor. Still,
being mistaken for a god.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Eat mink and be dreary!
---
This message is from
exotic instrumentation is needed to study
what happens during a discharge.
There
has been discussion in the committee on ground lead positioning.
Possibly David Pommerenke can fill you in on the latest
That would indeed be very interesting. We have a committee meeting next
Tuesday.
--
Regards, John
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