Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread Russell Leggett
since in this example I only used the object literal variant. (The function, array, etc variants do things that Object.create can't do.) I think this is ultimately the downfall of 'with' as a complete replacement for | or extends. It works pretty well on objects but no others. SomeFunc

Re: Nov 16 meeting notes

2011-11-17 Thread Gavin Barraclough
On Nov 16, 2011, at 5:19 PM, Waldemar Horwat wrote: Map/Set: Size property should be a getter property with no matching setter. It's defined on the property. What is its name? size, count, or length? Decide on es-discuss. Hi Waldemar, I'm unclear what It's defined on the property

Re: Nov 16 meeting notes

2011-11-17 Thread Mark S. Miller
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 12:12 AM, Gavin Barraclough barraclo...@apple.comwrote: On Nov 16, 2011, at 5:19 PM, Waldemar Horwat wrote: Map/Set: Size property should be a getter property with no matching setter. It's defined on the property. What is its name? size, count, or length? Decide

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread Axel Rauschmayer
obj with { foo: 12 } with { bar: 13 } with { baz: 17 } I like the idea! As it is syntactically different in this role, errors should be easy to spot. But I think `with` “points in the wrong direction” (object `obj` *with* prototype `proto`). That is, to me, it suggests a pointer going from

Re: Nov 16 meeting notes

2011-11-17 Thread Axel Rauschmayer
Map/Set: Size property should be a getter property with no matching setter. It's defined on the property. What is its name? size, count, or length? Decide on es-discuss. Given that Array already uses `length`, it seems like the obvious choice. Some of the things discussed should

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread Dmitry Soshnikov
On 17.11.2011 11:41, David Herman wrote: On Nov 16, 2011, at 11:27 PM, Mark S. Miller wrote: On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:24 PM, David Herman dher...@mozilla.com mailto:dher...@mozilla.com wrote: obj with { foo: 12 } with { bar: 13 } with { baz: 17 } I don't get it yet. What do you

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread Peter van der Zee
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Dmitry Soshnikov dmitry.soshni...@gmail.com wrote: My first answer was glib, sorry. I'm proposing `with' as a replacement syntax for |. So the above expression evaluates to the same as Once again, it's absolutely the same approach which I showed

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread Dmitry Soshnikov
On 17.11.2011 15:57, Peter van der Zee wrote: On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Dmitry Soshnikov dmitry.soshni...@gmail.com wrote: My first answer was glib, sorry. I'm proposing `with' as a replacement syntax for|. So the above expression evaluates to the same as Once again, it's

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread Axel Rauschmayer
Once again, it's absolutely the same approach which I showed yesterday with using `extends' (https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/2011-November/018478.html). The *only* thing new about David’s proposal (and intentionally so) is that the symbol `with` is being reused. So there

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread Axel Rauschmayer
Once again, it's absolutely the same approach which I showed yesterday with using `extends' (https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/2011-November/018478.html). The *only* thing new about David’s proposal (and intentionally so) is that the symbol `with` is being reused. So there

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread Dmitry Soshnikov
On 17.11.2011 16:04, Axel Rauschmayer wrote: Once again, it's absolutely the same approach which I showed yesterday with using `extends' (https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/2011-November/018478.html). The *only* thing new about David’s proposal (and intentionally so) is that the

Re: Nov 16 meeting notes

2011-11-17 Thread David Bruant
Hi, Thanks for these notes. Le 17/11/2011 02:19, Waldemar Horwat a écrit : Here are my rough notes from today's meeting. Waldemar IPR discussions Test262 status Do you have any details on this point? A roadmap? Thanks, David ___ es-discuss

Re: Nov 16 meeting notes

2011-11-17 Thread David Bruant
Le 17/11/2011 12:49, Axel Rauschmayer a écrit : Map/Set: Size property should be a getter property with no matching setter. It's defined on the property. What is its name? size, count, or length? Decide on es-discuss. Given that Array already uses `length`, it seems like

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread David Herman
On Nov 17, 2011, at 3:53 AM, Dmitry Soshnikov wrote: Once again, it's absolutely the same approach which I showed yesterday with using `extends' (https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/2011-November/018478.html). My point has absolutely nothing to do with semantics and everything to

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread David Herman
On Nov 17, 2011, at 12:10 AM, Russell Leggett wrote: since in this example I only used the object literal variant. (The function, array, etc variants do things that Object.create can't do.) I think this is ultimately the downfall of 'with' as a complete replacement for | or extends. It

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread Russell Leggett
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 8:08 AM, David Herman dher...@mozilla.com wrote: On Nov 17, 2011, at 3:53 AM, Dmitry Soshnikov wrote: Once again, it's absolutely the same approach which I showed yesterday with using `extends' (

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread Dmitry Soshnikov
On 17.11.2011 17:08, David Herman wrote: On Nov 17, 2011, at 3:53 AM, Dmitry Soshnikov wrote: Once again, it's absolutely the same approach which I showed yesterday with using `extends' (https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/2011-November/018478.html). My point has absolutely

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread Axel Rauschmayer
[cc-ing es-discuss again] On Nov 17, 2011, at 14:20 , Russell Leggett wrote: On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 6:17 AM, Axel Rauschmayer a...@rauschma.de wrote: obj with { foo: 12 } with { bar: 13 } with { baz: 17 } I like the idea! As it is syntactically different in this role, errors should be

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread David Herman
On Nov 17, 2011, at 3:17 AM, Axel Rauschmayer wrote: obj with { foo: 12 } with { bar: 13 } with { baz: 17 } I like the idea! As it is syntactically different in this role, errors should be easy to spot. But I think `with` “points in the wrong direction” (object `obj` *with*

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread David Herman
On Nov 17, 2011, at 5:13 AM, Russell Leggett wrote: Look closer - it is being used as a prefix operator, not an infix operator. extends Proto {...} There have been a few alternatives discussed in the previous thread. IMO, in each one of them, `extends` is awkward. The one you're talking

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread Axel Rauschmayer
obj with { foo: 12 } with { bar: 13 } with { baz: 17 } I like the idea! As it is syntactically different in this role, errors should be easy to spot. But I think `with` “points in the wrong direction” (object `obj` *with* prototype `proto`). That is, to me, it suggests a pointer

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread David Herman
On Nov 17, 2011, at 5:16 AM, Dmitry Soshnikov wrote: And `extends` fails completely as the syntax. This is why it's so wide-spread in other languages for inheritance, right? ;) In other languages it's not a stand-alone operator but a part of class syntax. (I don't know Ruby, so maybe you'll

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread David Herman
On Nov 17, 2011, at 5:37 AM, Axel Rauschmayer wrote: [cc-ing es-discuss again] On Nov 17, 2011, at 14:20 , Russell Leggett wrote: If | changed to allow non-literal RHS values, I could see it getting more use obj | comparable | enumerable | {...} but right now, that has a big

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread Axel Rauschmayer
True, that’s the catch. Then it works for composing an inheritance hierarchy (as in mixins as abstract subclasses). Another idea for `extends` (if there is more than one object that is being extended): extends(comparable, enumerable, foo, bar) { ... } I'm not sure what the

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread Mike Samuel
2011/11/17 David Herman dher...@mozilla.com:    obj with { foo: 12 } with { bar: 13 } with { baz: 17 } Does the below fit your syntax and isn't it lexically ambiguous with the old with? obj with ({ foo: 12 }) {} ___ es-discuss mailing list

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread Axel Rauschmayer
Going from P | o to P --with-instance-- o is fine with me, but it’s not the directionality of [[Prototype]]. I know Allen felt strongly about LTR here. I'm pretty sure I agree with him. I might be misunderstanding, but note that in both cases above, P comes first, o comes

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread David Herman
On Nov 17, 2011, at 6:20 AM, Axel Rauschmayer wrote: I'm not sure what the semantics of this would be. Are you inventing multiple-prototype inheritance? That's not going to happen. Single inheritance, a prototype chain composed from the given objects, in the given order. An infix

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread David Herman
On Nov 17, 2011, at 6:26 AM, Mike Samuel wrote: 2011/11/17 David Herman dher...@mozilla.com: obj with { foo: 12 } with { bar: 13 } with { baz: 17 } Does the below fit your syntax and isn't it lexically ambiguous with the old with? obj with ({ foo: 12 }) {} This was discussed above;

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread Dmitry Soshnikov
On 17.11.2011 18:10, David Herman wrote: On Nov 17, 2011, at 5:16 AM, Dmitry Soshnikov wrote: And `extends` fails completely as the syntax. This is why it's so wide-spread in other languages for inheritance, right? ;) In other languages it's not a stand-alone operator but a part of class

Re: Alternative syntax for |

2011-11-17 Thread Greg Smith
The biggest advantage to beget is that it has the opportunity to become The Prototype Word. inherit has a lot of people associating it with classical OO programming. As nice as inherit sounds, it might be good to drop that baggage. -Greg On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 2:31 PM, Rick Waldron

Re: Alternative syntax for |

2011-11-17 Thread Jason Orendorff
On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Erik Arvidsson erik.arvids...@gmail.com wrote: One thing that all of these discussions are missing is the hoisting property of function and any possible future classes. If we use let Point = ... we lose all hoisting and the order of your declarations starts to

Re: Nov 16 meeting notes

2011-11-17 Thread David Bruant
Le 17/11/2011 02:40, Mikeal Rogers a écrit : On Nov 16, 2011, at November 16, 20115:19 PM, Waldemar Horwat wrote: * Confusion about map. Particularly for people who work on (geographic) maps. This is surprising. I might expect confusion with [].map() but not with geographic maps. I'm

Re: Alternative syntax for |

2011-11-17 Thread David Herman
On Nov 17, 2011, at 8:00 AM, Jason Orendorff wrote: On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Erik Arvidsson erik.arvids...@gmail.com wrote: One thing that all of these discussions are missing is the hoisting property of function and any possible future classes. If we use let Point = ... we lose all

Re: The class operator: a bridge between object and function exemplers

2011-11-17 Thread Allen Wirfs-Brock
OK, I have a fix for the missing constructor problem. See: http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=strawman:class_operator#missing_constructors Allen On Nov 15, 2011, at 9:25 AM, Allen Wirfs-Brock wrote: On Nov 15, 2011, at 8:16 AM, Russell Leggett wrote: ... As has been said, a

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread David Herman
On Nov 17, 2011, at 6:41 AM, Dmitry Soshnikov wrote: And uses `.extend' instance method (inherited from Object) for imperative delegation-based mixing. Sure, so that's just a method then, not an `extends` keyword. OK, though, I'd like again to notice Scala: object foo extends bar {

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread Dmitry Soshnikov
On 17.11.2011 21:11, David Herman wrote: On Nov 17, 2011, at 6:41 AM, Dmitry Soshnikov wrote: And uses `.extend' instance method (inherited from Object) for imperative delegation-based mixing. Sure, so that's just a method then, not an `extends` keyword. Yep. And just a small note (to

Re: The class operator: a bridge between object and function exemplers

2011-11-17 Thread Jake Verbaten
5 Let *proto* be the value of the [[Prototype]] internal property of *obj*. 6 Return the result of evaluating this algorithm using the value of *proto* as the value of *UnaryExpression* * * What is the point of calling class recursively on the [[Prototype]] if the object does not have constructor

Choosing Globalization API namespace

2011-11-17 Thread Nebojša Ćirić
HI all, we briefly discussed the i18n namespace at the meeting yesterday. It seems that Globalization (current proposal) could conflict with jQuery plugin, and also some members were worried about the actual name length. Somebody mentioned we should wait for module implementation/spec to

Re: Nov 16 meeting notes

2011-11-17 Thread Waldemar Horwat
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:49 AM, Axel Rauschmayer a...@rauschma.de wrote: Given that Array already uses `length`, it seems like the obvious choice. length is my choice as well, for the same reason. It's not writable in Maps and Sets, so the concerns about the semantics of writing it don't

Re: Alternative syntax for |

2011-11-17 Thread Jason Orendorff
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 10:40 AM, David Herman dher...@mozilla.com wrote: This isn't about scope, it's about at what point they're initialized. If you write:    let x = new C();    let C = class /* whatever */; you won't get a scope error but a runtime initialization error. Whereas if

Re: Nov 16 meeting notes

2011-11-17 Thread Waldemar Horwat
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 12:12 AM, Gavin Barraclough barraclo...@apple.com wrote: On Nov 16, 2011, at 5:19 PM, Waldemar Horwat wrote: Map/Set: Size property should be a getter property with no matching setter.  It's defined on the property. What is its name?  size, count, or length?  Decide

Re: Choosing Globalization API namespace

2011-11-17 Thread Dmitry Soshnikov
On 17.11.2011 22:07, Nebojša Ćirić wrote: HI all, we briefly discussed the i18n namespace at the meeting yesterday. It seems that Globalization (current proposal) could conflict with jQuery plugin, and also some members were worried about the actual name length. Unfortunately I hadn't an

Globalization API discussion

2011-11-17 Thread Nebojša Ćirić
Hi all, there were couple concerns yesterday about the API (some concrete, some vague), and we would like to resolve those as soon as possible. Here is the list of issues I got yesterday (I am sure there's more we didn't manage to cover): Q. We need a way to set default locale (per context).

Re: Choosing Globalization API namespace

2011-11-17 Thread Nebojša Ćirić
I feel the actual name was less of a problem for the committee, they were more worried about possible conflicts, and wanted to make sure that we place our library so that it can't conflict no matter what name we pick. There are couple of names floating around (including i18n, World, Text). Locale

Re: Globalization API discussion

2011-11-17 Thread Nebojša Ćirić
Pastebin may be better for showing syntax - http://pastebin.com/pjfdKYss. 17. новембар 2011. 10.33, Nebojša Ćirić c...@google.com је написао/ла: Hi all, there were couple concerns yesterday about the API (some concrete, some vague), and we would like to resolve those as soon as possible.

Regex

2011-11-17 Thread Mark Davis ☕
Regex has not been part of scope of the Globalization API work. I wanted to find out whether any improvements from an internationalization point of view are being planned, separately. Some of the problems include: - Regex's fail on supplementary characters (above U+). Most of these are

Re: The class operator: a bridge between object and function exemplers

2011-11-17 Thread Russell Leggett
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Allen Wirfs-Brock al...@wirfs-brock.com wrote: OK, I have a fix for the missing constructor problem. See: http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=strawman:class_operator#missing_constructors The biggest thing I see missing is a declarative form that includes

Re: The class operator: a bridge between object and function exemplers

2011-11-17 Thread Allen Wirfs-Brock
On Nov 17, 2011, at 9:47 AM, Jake Verbaten wrote: 5 Let proto be the value of the [[Prototype]] internal property of obj. 6 Return the result of evaluating this algorithm using the value of proto as the value of UnaryExpression What is the point of calling class recursively on the

Re: Nov 16 meeting notes

2011-11-17 Thread Dean Landolt
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Waldemar Horwat walde...@google.comwrote: On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:49 AM, Axel Rauschmayer a...@rauschma.de wrote: Given that Array already uses `length`, it seems like the obvious choice. length is my choice as well, for the same reason. It's not

Re: Nov 16 meeting notes

2011-11-17 Thread Nebojša Ćirić
Internationalization presentation. Allen: Can a web developer reasonably depend on his webapp working the same in a given locale on any conforming browser? Answer: No. MarkM: Are there specific areas where it's possible to pin implementations down more? Alex: Wants a way to

Re: The class operator: a bridge between object and function exemplers

2011-11-17 Thread Axel Rauschmayer
I agree with the advantage of a declaration containing a name and with it being similar to functions. I tried a synthesis of the current inheritance/class proposals: https://gist.github.com/1374226 Comments welcome; it might please nobody by trying to please everybody. On Nov 17, 2011, at

Re: Alternative syntax for |

2011-11-17 Thread David Flanagan
On 11/16/11 11:45 AM, Erik Arvidsson wrote: Sorry for being too brief. Today the following works. f(); ... function f() { ... } but the following does not: f(); ... let f = function f() {}; I think it is important that we keep the forward reference behavior with classes. This requires a

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread Brendan Eich
On Nov 17, 2011, at 6:39 AM, David Herman wrote: On Nov 17, 2011, at 6:26 AM, Mike Samuel wrote: 2011/11/17 David Herman dher...@mozilla.com: obj with { foo: 12 } with { bar: 13 } with { baz: 17 } Does the below fit your syntax and isn't it lexically ambiguous with the old with? obj

Re: Nov 16 meeting notes

2011-11-17 Thread Brendan Eich
On Nov 17, 2011, at 10:16 AM, Waldemar Horwat wrote: On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:49 AM, Axel Rauschmayer a...@rauschma.de wrote: Given that Array already uses `length`, it seems like the obvious choice. length is my choice as well, for the same reason. It's not writable in Maps and Sets, so

Re: Nov 16 meeting notes

2011-11-17 Thread Brendan Eich
On Nov 17, 2011, at 11:26 AM, Dean Landolt wrote: Who can resist such a juicy bikeshed... Yup. Just wanted to jump in and say non-writable length is consistent with String behavior as well, but David makes a good point about length implying metric topology. David's suggestion of `count`

Re: Choosing Globalization API namespace

2011-11-17 Thread Brendan Eich
On Nov 17, 2011, at 10:07 AM, Nebojša Ćirić wrote: HI all, we briefly discussed the i18n namespace at the meeting yesterday. It seems that Globalization (current proposal) could conflict with jQuery plugin, and also some members were worried about the actual name length. Somebody

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread David Herman
On Nov 17, 2011, at 12:56 PM, Brendan Eich wrote: This would require migration through two steps. One to ES5 strict to get rid of the with above (which relies on ASI). The second to ES.next or whatever retasks 'with'. I don't understand this-- that's already the case, since there's no

Re: Alternative syntax for |

2011-11-17 Thread Brendan Eich
On Nov 17, 2011, at 10:17 AM, Jason Orendorff wrote: On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 10:40 AM, David Herman dher...@mozilla.com wrote: This isn't about scope, it's about at what point they're initialized. If you write: let x = new C(); let C = class /* whatever */; you won't get a scope

RE: Wiki updates for String, Number and Math libraries

2011-11-17 Thread Luke Hoban
1) String.prototype.reverse(), as proposed, corrupts supplementary characters. It was agreed at the meeting yesterday that this concern is significant enough, and reverse does not have sufficiently compelling use cases, so should not be included. 2) String.prototype.toArray(), as

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread Brendan Eich
On Nov 17, 2011, at 1:27 PM, David Herman wrote: On Nov 17, 2011, at 12:56 PM, Brendan Eich wrote: This would require migration through two steps. One to ES5 strict to get rid of the with above (which relies on ASI). The second to ES.next or whatever retasks 'with'. I don't understand

Re: Alternative syntax for |

2011-11-17 Thread Russell Leggett
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:06 PM, David Flanagan dflana...@mozilla.comwrote: On 11/16/11 11:45 AM, Erik Arvidsson wrote: Sorry for being too brief. Today the following works. f(); ... function f() { ... } but the following does not: f(); ... let f = function f() {}; I think it is

Re: Alternative syntax for |

2011-11-17 Thread Brendan Eich
On Nov 17, 2011, at 1:34 PM, Russell Leggett wrote: On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:06 PM, David Flanagan dflana...@mozilla.com wrote: On 11/16/11 11:45 AM, Erik Arvidsson wrote: Sorry for being too brief. Today the following works. f(); ... function f() { ... } but the following does not:

Re: Alternative syntax for |

2011-11-17 Thread Russell Leggett
It is also something that my proposed version of the class operator could do, because it always creates a function, and could desugar to the same semantics as the current function style. This may seem like a nit-pick, but I think it's not: any variant that sits at statement context in the

Re: The class operator: a bridge between object and function exemplers

2011-11-17 Thread Brendan Eich
On Nov 17, 2011, at 9:04 AM, Allen Wirfs-Brock wrote: OK, I have a fix for the missing constructor problem. See: http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=strawman:class_operator#missing_constructors Nit: [[ctor]], obviously a temporary hack-name. How about [[ClassConstructor]]? or maybe

Re: Alternative syntax for |

2011-11-17 Thread David Herman
On Nov 17, 2011, at 10:17 AM, Jason Orendorff wrote: I'm with Allen. If ES classes can contain any initialization code, I think it should run in program order, interleaved with top-level statements. Anything else is just confusing. This is a great point, which I'd overlooked (not sure if

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread David Herman
On Nov 17, 2011, at 1:30 PM, Brendan Eich wrote: If I have code of the kind Mike Samuel showed: obj with ({ foo: 12 }) {} and I migrate directly into ES-whatever with 'with' as you propose (instead of |), then I do not get an early error. Understood. Also, using 'with' around object

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread David Herman
On Nov 17, 2011, at 2:08 PM, David Herman wrote: On Nov 17, 2011, at 1:30 PM, Brendan Eich wrote: If I have code of the kind Mike Samuel showed: obj with ({ foo: 12 }) {} and I migrate directly into ES-whatever with 'with' as you propose (instead of |), then I do not get an early

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread Brendan Eich
On Nov 17, 2011, at 2:15 PM, Brendan Eich wrote: On Nov 17, 2011, at 2:08 PM, David Herman wrote: Prototype extension or delegation is not the same as FRU at all -- the delegating object can shadow proto-properties, That's precisely what makes it analogous to FRU. You functionally update

Re: Globalization API discussion

2011-11-17 Thread Nebojša Ćirić
Q. API is too Java like. Use shorthand to invoke formatters. A. I would like to hear proposals on how to make it more JS like. Adding shorthand syntax is easy, but most of TC39 members were against having 2 ways of doing things first time we proposed it. Here is an example of current API in

Re: Choosing Globalization API namespace

2011-11-17 Thread Brendan Eich
On Nov 17, 2011, at 2:18 PM, Nebojša Ćirić wrote: Looking at the http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=harmony:modules_examples: module i18n from '@Globalization' Nit: we've been using '@lowercase' convention, ideally with a single lower-case word, in naming built-ins. is how modules

Re: Globalization API discussion

2011-11-17 Thread Brendan Eich
On Nov 17, 2011, at 2:22 PM, Nebojša Ćirić wrote: Q. API is too Java like. Use shorthand to invoke formatters. A. I would like to hear proposals on how to make it more JS like. Adding shorthand syntax is easy, but most of TC39 members were against having 2 ways of doing things first time we

Re: with

2011-11-17 Thread Brendan Eich
On Nov 17, 2011, at 2:29 PM, David Herman wrote: On Nov 17, 2011, at 2:15 PM, Brendan Eich wrote: On Nov 17, 2011, at 2:08 PM, David Herman wrote: Prototype extension or delegation is not the same as FRU at all -- the delegating object can shadow proto-properties, That's precisely

Re: Choosing Globalization API namespace

2011-11-17 Thread Nebojša Ćirić
Nit: still would want the @, so '@globalization' or something shorter. '@locale'? I was just making sure I got your idea right. I'll use @ in the future. That's a good start at a shim hack. Better still would be to work incrementally to eliminate the v8Locale global property. Chrome

Globlization and Object.system.load

2011-11-17 Thread Roozbeh Pournader
I was talking with Nebojša about the Object.system.load interface for loading globalization, thinking from the user side. Brendan's email suggested something like this: Object.system.load = function(name, callback) { if (name === '@g11n') { callback(v8Locale); } }; That would make

Re: The class operator: a bridge between object and function exemplers

2011-11-17 Thread Brendan Eich
On Nov 17, 2011, at 2:47 PM, Jake Verbaten wrote: This would involve changing The value of this internal property is a new function object defined as if by function(){}. To The value of this internal property is a new function object defined as if by function(...args){

Re: Globlization and Object.system.load

2011-11-17 Thread Brendan Eich
I didn't make up load from whole cloth, there's a proposal at http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=harmony:module_loaders Module people should weigh in. /be On Nov 17, 2011, at 3:08 PM, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: I was talking with Nebojša about the Object.system.load interface for loading

Re: The class operator: a bridge between object and function exemplers

2011-11-17 Thread Allen Wirfs-Brock
On Nov 17, 2011, at 2:05 PM, Brendan Eich wrote: On Nov 17, 2011, at 9:04 AM, Allen Wirfs-Brock wrote: OK, I have a fix for the missing constructor problem. See: http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=strawman:class_operator#missing_constructors Nit: [[ctor]], obviously a temporary

Re: The class operator: a bridge between object and function exemplers

2011-11-17 Thread Brendan Eich
On Nov 17, 2011, at 3:31 PM, Allen Wirfs-Brock wrote: We can debate whether Default Constructors should do a: if (super.constructor isnt Object) super.constructor() but that is a more basic question about whether constructors (default or otherwise) should always do implicit super calls.

Re: The class operator: a bridge between object and function exemplers

2011-11-17 Thread Jake Verbaten
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 11:39 PM, Brendan Eich bren...@mozilla.com wrote: On Nov 17, 2011, at 3:31 PM, Allen Wirfs-Brock wrote: We can debate whether Default Constructors should do a: if (super.constructor isnt Object) super.constructor() but that is a more basic question about

Re: Globlization and Object.system.load

2011-11-17 Thread Roozbeh Pournader
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:08 PM, Roozbeh Pournader rooz...@google.com wrote: That would make something like this the minimum code needed to use the module: var g11n; Object.system.load(@g11n, function (g11n_module) {   g11n = g11n_module; }); I guess I was wrong about the minimum code. The

Re: Globlization and Object.system.load

2011-11-17 Thread David Herman
We intend to have a synchronous API for accessing the built-in modules (those beginning with @ in their URL), as well as a synchronous way to access modules that have already been loaded. This went by briefly in July: https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/2011-July/015929.html I'm

Re: Globlization and Object.system.load

2011-11-17 Thread David Herman
On Nov 17, 2011, at 3:48 PM, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:08 PM, Roozbeh Pournader rooz...@google.com wrote: That would make something like this the minimum code needed to use the module: var g11n; Object.system.load(@g11n, function (g11n_module) { g11n =

Re: The class operator: a bridge between object and function exemplers

2011-11-17 Thread Allen Wirfs-Brock
On Nov 17, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Jake Verbaten wrote: On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 11:39 PM, Brendan Eich bren...@mozilla.com wrote: On Nov 17, 2011, at 3:31 PM, Allen Wirfs-Brock wrote: We can debate whether Default Constructors should do a: if (super.constructor isnt Object)

Nov 17 meeting notes

2011-11-17 Thread Waldemar Horwat
Array destructuring and length: let [a, b, c, d, ... r] = {2: 3} | [1, 2] Obvious: a is 1; b is 2. What are c, d, and r? c = 2. d = undefined. r = empty. Fixed property destructuring doesn't rely on length. Vararg r destructuring uses length. The semantics of length will match that of slice.

Re: Nov 17 meeting notes

2011-11-17 Thread Rick Waldron
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 7:40 PM, Waldemar Horwat walde...@google.comwrote: Array destructuring and length: let [a, b, c, d, ... r] = {2: 3} | [1, 2] Obvious: a is 1; b is 2. What are c, d, and r? c = 2. d = undefined. r = empty. Fixed property destructuring doesn't rely on length.

Re: The class operator: a bridge between object and function exemplers

2011-11-17 Thread Allen Wirfs-Brock
On Nov 17, 2011, at 11:21 AM, Russell Leggett wrote: sorry that last one didn't go to the group - ignore. This new gmail interface screwed me up ;) On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Russell Leggett russell.legg...@gmail.com wrote: At this point, if Allen's proposal included a

Re: Wiki updates for String, Number and Math libraries

2011-11-17 Thread Gillam, Richard
1) String.prototype.reverse(), as proposed, corrupts supplementary characters. Clause 6 of Ecma-262 redefines the word character as a 16-bit unsigned value used to represent a single 16-bit unit of text, that is, a UTF-16 code unit. In contrast, the phrase Unicode character is used for

Re: Wiki updates for String, Number and Math libraries

2011-11-17 Thread Norbert Lindenberg
Fortunately we dropped reverse in the TC 39 meeting yesterday - nobody had an idea who would use it. I brought up combining character sequences as a concern for the other proposed functions (startsWith etc.). There the majority opinion was that the model of the existing String functions,

Re: Wiki updates for String, Number and Math libraries

2011-11-17 Thread Norbert Lindenberg
Hi Luke, For String.prototype.toArray, I didn't propose different behavior. The part of my message that you omitted continues The function should be named to clearly indicate that it returns an array of UTF-16 code units. This also allows us to offer a parallel function that returns an array

Re: Nov 17 meeting notes

2011-11-17 Thread Brendan Eich
On Nov 17, 2011, at 4:40 PM, Waldemar Horwat wrote: Tom: Use a null target to indicate a permanently virtual object. Brendan: Proxy.DonJuan He refuses to commit. /be ___ es-discuss mailing list es-discuss@mozilla.org

Re: Nov 17 meeting notes

2011-11-17 Thread David Herman
On Nov 17, 2011, at 5:20 PM, Rick Waldron wrote: On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 7:40 PM, Waldemar Horwat walde...@google.com wrote: Array.from(a) is superfluous because it's expressed even simpler as [... a]. DaveH withdrew it. Perhaps Array.from() was either misunderstood or miscommunicated. I

Re: Nov 17 meeting notes

2011-11-17 Thread Dominic Cooney
On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 9:40 AM, Waldemar Horwat walde...@google.comwrote: Array destructuring and length: let [a, b, c, d, ... r] = {2: 3} | [1, 2] Obvious: a is 1; b is 2. What are c, d, and r? c = 2. Nit: This should be c = 3, because {2: 3} means ({2: x} | [1, 2])[2] is x, right? d