I can’t answer to that since I never used a Supercharger but my assumption was
that this number ($8.10 see photo) was the price to full. Tesla says they do
not profit on the electricity.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 18, 2018, at 6:32 AM, Willie via EV wrote:
>
>
>
>> On 10/17/2018 10:02
To: gaildlu...@earthlink.net; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: paul dove
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla, Edison-Tesla Deja Vu [Free
Supercharging!]
Mid range battery model 3 now available
https://3.tesla.com/model3/design?#payment
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 18, 2018, a
Mid range battery model 3 now available
https://3.tesla.com/model3/design?#payment
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 18, 2018, at 1:36 PM, Gail Lucas via EV wrote:
>
> Mark, I agree 100%. Twenty years ago when I was doing "show and tell" with my
> Citicars and conversions I could only dream that
Mark, I agree 100%. Twenty years ago when I was doing "show and tell"
with my Citicars and conversions I could only dream that a car like the
Tesla would appear and revolutionize the whole EV industry. The EV1
looked promising but we all know what happened to it. I have ridden in a
Tesla and
Ok, thanks.
I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken!
- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> On Oct 18, 2018, at 10:15 AM, John Blair via EV wrote:
>
> You can check the prices on the Tesla website. It is different in different
> states. Tesla prefers to charge by kWh, but some
You’re absolutely correct.
In most cases the negativity impacts the stock, not the product or the
consumer.
Despite some of legitimate comments made here about the failure to deliver on
its promises, what Tesla HAS delivered is incredible.
For those who find the price not affordable to them,
Here's another way Tesla's or for that matter, anything, gets misaligned...
somebody just repeats what somebody else told them. And in this case according
to
a latter post by Paul who has a Tesla - "My car says I can supercharge for 8
and
change it's less than $9 for 75kw so that is like 11
On 10/17/2018 10:02 PM, paul dove wrote:
My car says I can supercharge for 8 and change it’s less than $9 for 75kw so
that is like 11 cents a kilowatt.
Paul, something seems amiss in those numbers. I have to assume 75kwh
for "75kw". The battery capacity of a Model 3 LR is about 75kwh so
My car says I can supercharge for 8 and change it’s less than $9 for 75kw so
that is like 11 cents a kilowatt.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 17, 2018, at 4:24 PM, Willie via EV wrote:
>
>
>
>> On 10/17/2018 04:07 PM, Jay Summet via EV wrote:
>> My understanding is that the cost to use the
I’ve been told $20.
- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> On Oct 17, 2018, at 2:07 PM, Jay Summet via EV wrote:
>
> My understanding is that the cost to use the supercharger network à la carte
> is relatively reasonable (price wise) when compared to buying gasoline for a
> trip of
Prices are posted at
https://www.tesla.com/support/supercharging
Some states are per kWh, others are per minute (with different rates for
above or below 60 kW charging rates).
Some existing cars are grandfathered into unlimited transferrable free
supercharging for the life of the vehicle,
On 10/17/2018 04:07 PM, Jay Summet via EV wrote:
My understanding is that the cost to use the supercharger network à la
carte is relatively reasonable (price wise) when compared to buying
gasoline for a trip of a similar distance. Perhaps somebody with a Tesla
that doesn't come with free
On 10/16/18 10:02 PM, Willie via EV wrote:
On 10/16/2018 08:55 PM, Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:
OK, sorry about the caps there, but hey, working aircon in an EV is a
wonder to behold.
Right on, right on, right on!
I drove my conversion over 50k miles. Spent something like $10k on
My understanding is that the cost to use the supercharger network à la
carte is relatively reasonable (price wise) when compared to buying
gasoline for a trip of a similar distance. Perhaps somebody with a Tesla
that doesn't come with free supercharging can report on the prices?
Jay
On
https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-it-actually-cost-to-make-a-car
The upshot of all of this is that cars don't make a huge amount of profit. The
industry average is around 5% consolidated operating profit. That is, by the
time all costs are paid you make 5% profit on the factory gate price.
Willie,
Since you were an early Tesla driver and have much experience with
several Tesla models, you can be a spokesperson to contradict the
erroneous and negative claims made by the detractors. Note where the bad
reviews are published and send rebuttals.
If you are watching the TSLA stock
"EVDL Administrator"
> Sent: 16-Oct-18 2:04:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla, Edison-Tesla Deja Vu
>
>>> On 16 Oct 2018 at 19:57, robert winfield via EV wrote:
>>>
>>> Maybe you forget how few years Tesla has been selling EV'sMa
On 10/17/2018 08:29 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
What is frustrating to me is all the Tesla short seller naysayers. These
greedy do-nothings put out 90% of the anti-tesla propaganda because it is
in their own personal self interest to see Tesla fail. They have bet
their money to see
>Instead, they gave us a somewhat cut down Model S
>that doesn't get to use Superchargers for free.
Nothing is "free". It is paid for within the luxury prices on the model S
and X.
One cannot have it both ways. If one only wants to pay the absolute
minimum, then one doesn't pay for the
What is frustrating to me is all the Tesla short seller naysayers. These
greedy do-nothings put out 90% of the anti-tesla propaganda because it is
in their own personal self interest to see Tesla fail. They have bet
their money to see Tesla fail and so everything they say is anti-tesla and
the
Now that I have calmed down and thought about everything I now realize that
what we have been doing for decades in car culture terms is restomoding. A
restomod is a vehicle that has been restored and modified. Example: A 350
Chevy in a Mustang. Distained by some in the car community but
On 10/16/2018 08:55 PM, Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:
OK, sorry about the caps there, but hey, working aircon in an EV is a
wonder to behold.
Right on, right on, right on!
I drove my conversion over 50k miles. Spent something like $10k on
various air conditioner configurations. Total
There are other used EVs worth purchasing. I just bought a 2016 VW
E-Golf for my commute. S much nicer than my homebuilt EV - has
airbags, seriously nice stereo, power steering and brakes, AND WORKING
AIRCON!
OK, sorry about the caps there, but hey, working aircon in an EV is a
wonder
I read a few posts but not the whole thread, but had to say less than 2 cents
worth...
My son and I were bored out of our minds at a mall in San Diego, California,
waiting for several hours for the wife and daughter who were in the Apple
store
We eventually found a Tesla store and
On 10/16/2018 06:34 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
Ok, so maybe they failed in that goal - to provide a car affordable to
the masses. But does it matter? It does to you, I understand and
I wonder if my comments are reaching the list?
Tesla has NOT failed to "provide a car affordable to
Administrator"
Sent: 16-Oct-18 2:04:23 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla, Edison-Tesla Deja Vu
On 16 Oct 2018 at 19:57, robert winfield via EV wrote:
Maybe you forget how few years Tesla has been selling EV'sMaybe you
don't know
what you are talking about when you decla
Yes, $46,000 is a lot of money but don't forget about the savings in fuel
dollars over say 10 years or maybe 100,000 mles. Is it maybe $15,000.00.
Makes it like buying a $31,000.00 car. One of the reasonswe build our own.
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla, Edison-Tesla Deja Vu
met Bob Beaumont at CitiCar meetup in Maryland. owned a "Blue Cheese Wedge"
also, and a Kewetmet Bob Rice at a "Power of DC" in Frederick, Maryland.nice
guy also.yes, in a few years Tesla will be 10 years old and used S.X and 3"s
will be available for all, or new turnkey cheap ones when the
On 10/16/2018 04:48 PM, robert winfield via EV wrote:
On Tuesday, October 16, 2018, 5:04:39 PM EDT, EVDL Administrator via EV
wrote:
If you know what you are talking about, then tell me, how many years has Tesla been selling vehicles. 10 years? 7 years? 5 years?If you look at the game
On Tuesday, October 16, 2018, 5:04:39 PM EDT, EVDL Administrator via EV
wrote:
If you know what you are talking about, then tell me, how many years has Tesla
been selling vehicles. 10 years? 7 years? 5 years?If you look at the game plan,
it's to sell, not low end vehicles, llike the CitiCars
On Tuesday, October 16, 2018, 5:04:39 PM EDT, EVDL Administrator via EV
wrote:
If you know what you are talking about, then tell me, how many years has Tesla
been selling vehicles. 10 years? 7 years? 5 years?If you look at the game plan,
it's to sell, not low end vehicles, llike the CitiCars
On Tuesday, October 16, 2018, 5:04:39 PM EDT, EVDL Administrator via EV
wrote:
If you know what you are talking about, then tell me, how many years has Tesla
been selling vehicles. 10 years? 7 years? 5 years?If you look at the game plan,
it's to sell, not low end vehicles, llike the CitiCars
On 16 Oct 2018 at 19:57, robert winfield via EV wrote:
> Maybe you forget how few years Tesla has been selling EV'sMaybe you don't know
> what you are talking about when you declare "they failed"
No, I don't forget. Yes, I do know what I'm talking about.
Tesla has done lots of good things.
Best car hands down that I have ever driven.
From: Willie via EV
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: Willie
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla, Edison-Tesla Deja Vu
On 10/16/2018 12:21 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
> On 16 Oct 2
Maybe you forget how few years Tesla has been selling EV'sMaybe you don't know
what you are talking about when you declare "they failed"Maybe you missed they
have sold _OVER_1/4 MILLION vehicles, all connected to the mothershipMaybe you
are incorrect.Maybe ___Maybe some of us, almost every
On 10/16/2018 12:21 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
On 16 Oct 2018 at 6:35, Paul Dove via EV wrote:
A car manufacturer doesn't make a profit till the production line is
paid for.
Of course, but Tesla's declared intent from the start was to make enough
money on the luxury models (X
Ooops I guess the tax thing was a different thread...
From: EV on behalf of Damon Henry via EV
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 10:37 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Damon Henry
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla, Edison-Tesla Deja Vu
you build and maintain yourself, no
registration required.
Damon
From: EV on behalf of EVDL Administrator via EV
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 10:21 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: EVDL Administrator
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla, Ed
Time didn't stop today. This is the first year of Model S. And NO
manufacturer expects to recoup 100% of their production costs in just one
year of a new model line. Geeze... bob
The did exactly what they said. They *introduced* the affordable EV for
the rest of us. Sales will follow. In
On 16 Oct 2018 at 6:35, Paul Dove via EV wrote:
> A car manufacturer doesn't make a profit till the production line is
> paid for.
Of course, but Tesla's declared intent from the start was to make enough
money on the luxury models (X and S) that they could afford to introduce a
more
The model 3 comes with options but they are not available in the basic
configuration yet they all come with large battery and premium interior. The
machines that make vehicles are very expensive. A car manufacturer doesn’t make
a profit till the production line is paid for. I am sure when he
On 15 Oct 2018 at 15:05, paul dove via EV wrote:
> Tesla is competing with Mercedes and BMW not Toyota.
The X and S models were supposed to be the luxury class cars. I thought the
3 was supposed to be the long-promised "Tesla for the rest of us," an
affordable car.
As far as I know, BMW
Yes, a model 3 is considered a mid-sized luxury car.
From: Peri Hartman via EV
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ; ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: Peri Hartman
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2018 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla, Edison-Tesla Deja Vu
According
ollowing this
sentence are two charts showing a c... | |
|
|
From: EVDL Administrator via EV
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: EVDL Administrator
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2018 1:45 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla, Edison-Tesla Deja Vu
On 15 Oct 2018 at 1:
Original message From: paul dove via EV
Date: 10/14/18 5:33 PM (GMT-05:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: paul dove Subject: Re: [EVDL]
Why I Won't Buy a Tesla, Edison-Tesla Deja Vu
I don’t know where you get this kind of thinking. They are not high priced
cars
On 10/15/2018 08:08 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
Yes, I assume the order-by-15-Oct deadline is to get a guaranteed tesla
delivery before 31 Dec.
But I bet as the end of year approaches a lot of people will be looking
over avaiable inventory and snapping them up.
At first I was thinking
Yes, I assume the order-by-15-Oct deadline is to get a guaranteed tesla
delivery before 31 Dec.
But I bet as the end of year approaches a lot of people will be looking
over avaiable inventory and snapping them up.
At first I was thinking Tesla would offer some incentives, but then I
realize it
On 15 Oct 2018 at 1:27, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> According to this website, the average total price paid for a new car is
> $31500.
Well, since someone compared the Tesla 3 to a couple of ICEVs, I might point
out that a Prius (a perfectly acceptable ICEV, in my book) starts at under
$25k
t;Willie"
> Sent: 14-Oct-18 6:19:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla, Edison-Tesla Deja Vu
>
>
>>
>> On 10/14/2018 04:33 PM, paul dove via EV wrote:
>>
>>> I don’t know where you get this kind of thinking. They are not high
>>
substantially higher,
meaning high priced for the average buyer of a new car.
Peri
-- Original Message --
From: "Willie via EV"
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Willie"
Sent: 14-Oct-18 6:19:40 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla, Edison-Tesla Deja Vu
On 10/14/2018
On 10/14/2018 04:33 PM, paul dove via EV wrote:
I don’t know where you get this kind of thinking. They are not high priced
cars. Mine was $46,000. A Toyota Highlander is $42,000 and a Subaru Ascent is
$46,000. If you get a comparable car you will pay about the same.
Interest piqued by your
Message: 6
>
> Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 13:22:45 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
>
> From: Lee Hart
>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla
>
> Message-ID:
>
> <20404926.1563.1539368565...@wamui-sassy.atl.sa.ea
On 10/14/2018 08:45 AM, mark hanson via EV wrote:
I believe you have consistently made a couple of assertions that I
consider to be erroneous. If you can cite sources to support, I would
be eager to see them.
Exactly Lee! So probably the real reason I won’t buy a Tesla is I can’t
afford
son with DC who
had to be forced out of GE (When Tesla had a better idea with AC) Déjà Vu
Mark
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 13:22:45 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Lee Hart
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla
Message
Perhaps a simple solution is to figure how to carefully control 2,000,000,000
(2 billion) 18650's and 2170's Li batteries with excellent microcontrollers for
temp, charge/discharge, etc. by putting them into, so far, 250,000 individual
vehicles that _all_ are monitored in _surreal_ time by the
I would also suggest the simpler solutions are winning out.Look at PV and micro
and nanogrids and DER's (distributed Energy) and nascent VPP'sVery robust
failure modes.Many point source power generatorsWhy transmit electrons miles
when 50 ft or less will do.If 1-2 18650's or 2170's fail or "get
Rod Hower via EV wrote:
>>> You probably shouldn't use microcontrollers because they have
>>> millions of transistors with the potential of failure...
David Roden wrote:
>> I don't think it's quite the same. The microcontroller has lots
>> of semiconductors, but they're all formed at one go on
It’s called sarcasm!
Sent from my iPad
> On Oct 10, 2018, at 8:38 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV
> wrote:
>
>> On 9 Oct 2018 at 0:28, Rod Hower via EV wrote:
>>
>> You probably shouldn't use microcontrollers because they have millions
>> of transistors with the potential of failure, better
On 9 Oct 2018 at 0:28, Rod Hower via EV wrote:
> You probably shouldn't use microcontrollers because they have millions
> of transistors with the potential of failure, better stick with the
> bipolar transistor!
I'm not an engineer, so correct me if this doesn't make sense, but I don't
think
I guess safety is also included in the 'surveillance' electronics that are
incorporated in a Tesla...
https://jalopnik.com/how-tesla-made-the-model-3-so-safe-1829610576
and
https://jalopnik.com/the-tesla-model-xs-sand-rollover-test-is-fascinating-182620
7350
Rush Dougherty
TucsonEV.com
Readings of the owners forums indicate that complete battery failures on
Teslas are quite rare. They have a good redundancy model of parallel cells
within a module, with 14-16 large modules that are in series to provide
350-400v DC, and thermal regulation.
There are issues, however:
-diagnostics
I didn't like the idea of thousands of little cells either, when I first
looked at the Tesla design.
The key word here is "availability", not MTBF, or reliability. The Tesla
battery can withstand many single point failures without affecting
performance or operation of the car, therefore the car
Wow, huge misunderstanding of "reliability"..
There is a huge difference between the poor reliability of large numbers of
single-point failures compared to the HUGE redundancy in the Tesla battery
with dozens of parallel redundancy at each step of the battery. I'd take
the Tesla design any day
Quoting Mark Hanson via EV :
I'm surprised the media doesn't mention the thousands of itty bitty
cells in a Tesla and that no one else does it that way for reliability
reasons (even with each one fused
Unfortunately,too many folks(Media)go through life lacking basic
science concepts.
Mark, You probably shouldn't use microcontrollers because they have millions of
transistors with the potential of failure, better stick with the bipolar
transistor! Good luck with that!
On Monday, October 8, 2018 3:45 PM, Mark Hanson via EV
wrote:
Aside from the high price the main
I don’t think your fears are based on any real data. The prismatic cells used
in other cars have just as many points of failure they are just packaged
differently. I cut open batteries and they contain layers of cells all
connected in parallel. It’s the same thing except the cells aren’t fused
is not
an issue. Tesla batteries are doing well into the multiple hundreds of
thousands of miles territory.
Damon
From: EV on behalf of Mark Hanson via EV
Sent: Monday, October 8, 2018 12:45 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: Mark Hanson
Subject: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy
Aside from the high price the main reason I wouldn't buy a Tesla is they're the
only manufacturer that has uses 6800 flashlight batteries (2170) in an onroad
vehicle. I just think of all those points of failure and the complexity of
monitoring that reduces reliability. While Consumer Reports
68 matches
Mail list logo
