Re: What day is it?

2015-10-07 7:49 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett : > On 7/10/2015 3:58 pm, Jason Resch wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 10:37 PM, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > They do affect you, because identical conscious states are, (by >> definition), indistinguishable from that point of view. So when you are >> experi

Re: Cpies and Doppelgangers

On 7/10/2015 5:30 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 6 October 2015 at 16:54, Bruce Kellett > wrote: It is possible that you might be able to make copies -- you certainly can for AI. A copy means that information from the original was used to constru

Re: What day is it?

On 7 October 2015 at 16:59, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 7/10/2015 3:58 pm, Jason Resch wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 10:37 PM, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > Is a particular mind a natural type? Or is it only the generic 'mind' that > is a natural type? Maybe the particular mind is only a token of

Re: Cpies and Doppelgangers

On 7 October 2015 at 18:16, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 7/10/2015 5:30 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > On 6 October 2015 at 16:54, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> It is possible that you might be able to make copies -- you certainly can >> for AI. A copy means that information from the original was u

Re: What day is it?

On 7/10/2015 6:26 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 7 October 2015 at 16:59, Bruce Kellett > wrote: On 7/10/2015 3:58 pm, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 10:37 PM, Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au>> wrote: Is a particular

Re: What day is it?

On 7 October 2015 at 19:50, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 7/10/2015 6:26 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > On 7 October 2015 at 16:59, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On 7/10/2015 3:58 pm, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 10:37 PM, Bruce Kellett < >> bhkell...@optusnet.com.au> wrote: >>

Re: Cpies and Doppelgangers

On 7/10/2015 7:40 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 7 October 2015 at 18:16, Bruce Kellett > wrote: On 7/10/2015 5:30 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 6 October 2015 at 16:54, Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au>> wrote: It

Re: What day is it?

On 7/10/2015 6:06 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-10-07 7:49 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett >: On 7/10/2015 3:58 pm, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 10:37 PM, Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au>> wrote: They do affect you, be

Re: What day is it?

On 7 October 2015 at 17:09, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 10/6/2015 10:39 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > > On 7 October 2015 at 07:51, Brent Meeker wrote: > >> >> >> On 10/6/2015 1:18 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >>> On 6 Oct 2015, at 2:45 PM, Brent Meeker < meeke...@verizon.net>

Re: What day is it?

On 7/10/2015 8:01 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 7 October 2015 at 19:50, Bruce Kellett > wrote: On 7/10/2015 6:26 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 7 October 2015 at 16:59, Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au>> wrote: On 7/10

Re: Cpies and Doppelgangers

On 7 October 2015 at 20:04, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 7/10/2015 7:40 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > On 7 October 2015 at 18:16, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > On 7/10/2015 5:30 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >> On 6 October 2015 at 16:54, Bruce Kellett < >> bhkell...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

Re: What day is it?

2015-10-07 11:11 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett : > On 7/10/2015 6:06 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > 2015-10-07 7:49 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett : > >> On 7/10/2015 3:58 pm, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 10:37 PM, Bruce Kellett < >> bhkell...@optusnet.com.au> wrote: >> >> They do affect you

Re: What day is it?

On 7 October 2015 at 20:22, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 7/10/2015 8:01 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > On 7 October 2015 at 19:50, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On 7/10/2015 6:26 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >> On 7 October 2015 at 16:59, Bruce Kellett < >> bhkell...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

Re: What day is it?

On 06 Oct 2015, at 20:14, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 10:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: It's not clear to me who is arguing for what. Stathis may think that consciousness is independent of it's physical substrate, but I don't see that he's arguing that here. He's arguing that there

Re: What day is it?

On 06 Oct 2015, at 22:51, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 1:18 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 6 Oct 2015, at 2:45 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/5/2015 6:24 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 6 Oct 2015, at 11:29 AM, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/5/2015 5:14 PM, Stathis Papaio

Re: What day is it?

On 07 Oct 2015, at 05:11, smitra wrote: On 07-10-2015 02:04, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 4:35 PM, smitra wrote: On 07-10-2015 00:06, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 7/10/2015 7:51 am, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 1:18 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: I'm not sure I understand what you are ge

Re: What day is it?

On 07 Oct 2015, at 05:37, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 7/10/2015 12:38 pm, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 6:49 PM, Bruce Kellett > wrote: On 6/10/2015 9:54 am, Brent Meeker wrote: It's not clear to me who is arguing for what. Stathis may think that consciousness is independent of it's

Re: Cpies and Doppelgangers

On 07 Oct 2015, at 09:16, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 7/10/2015 5:30 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 6 October 2015 at 16:54, Bruce Kellett wrote: It is possible that you might be able to make copies -- you certainly can for AI. A copy means that information from the original was used to c

Re: What day is it?

On 07 Oct 2015, at 11:11, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 7/10/2015 6:06 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-10-07 7:49 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett : On 7/10/2015 3:58 pm, Jason Resch wrote: snipe As a philosopher friend was prone to say, epistemology precedes ontology. From the perspective of the thinki

Re: 1P/3P CONFUSION again and again

On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 11:51 PM, Kim Jones wrote: > ​> ​ > I don’t honestly see the point of this any more. ​And yet you still post, therefore I can only conclude that ​ you enjoy writing posts that have no point.​ ​> ​ > I recall you saying several eons ago that you would no longer respond

Re: What day is it?

On 07-10-2015 07:20, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 8:11 PM, smitra wrote: On 07-10-2015 02:04, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 4:35 PM, smitra wrote: On 07-10-2015 00:06, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 7/10/2015 7:51 am, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 1:18 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: I'm n

Re: What day is it?

On 07-10-2015 12:52, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Oct 2015, at 05:11, smitra wrote: On 07-10-2015 02:04, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 4:35 PM, smitra wrote: On 07-10-2015 00:06, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 7/10/2015 7:51 am, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 1:18 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:

Re: Cpies and Doppelgangers

On 10/6/2015 11:30 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: So I am saying that two brains could be the same physically, and mentally, but still be different people. There is no duality here. The physical supervenience thesis requires that physical and mental processes track each other o

Re: What day is it?

On 10/7/2015 2:14 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 7 October 2015 at 17:09, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 10/6/2015 10:39 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 7 October 2015 at 07:51, Brent Meeker mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 10/6/201

Re: What day is it?

On 10/7/2015 3:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But I think that's wrong. Brains are not like ideal von Neumann computers or Turing machines that have "brain states" corresponding to "mental states". If you simulated a brain using a computer you would find that an enormous number of "brain stat

Re: What day is it?

On 10/7/2015 4:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But here Clark contradicts all the textbook on the subject. In fact all what John Clarks says here is that you cannot get a physical object from an arithmetical computations, which is trivial, but does not prove the existence of the physical object,

Re: Cpies and Doppelgangers

On 10/7/2015 4:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: My problem is only with people who claim to believe in both (weak) materialism in physics and digital mechanism (in cognitive science). I guess I am one of those people if by weak materialism you mean the idea that matter is necessary for the menta

Re: What day is it?

2015-10-07 20:46 GMT+02:00 Brent Meeker : > > > On 10/7/2015 4:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> But here Clark contradicts all the textbook on the subject. In fact all >> what John Clarks says here is that you cannot get a physical object from an >> arithmetical computations, which is trivial, but

Fwd: Evolving disordered matter for computation

Forwarded Message http://phys.org/news/2015-09-disordered-evolving-breakthrough-nanoparticle-boolean.html "Evolution of a designless nanoparticle network into reconfigurable Boolean logic." Nature Nanotechnology (2015) Abstract /*Natural computers* exploit the emerge

Re: What day is it?

On 10/7/2015 9:53 AM, smitra wrote: On 07-10-2015 07:20, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 8:11 PM, smitra wrote: On 07-10-2015 02:04, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 4:35 PM, smitra wrote: On 07-10-2015 00:06, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 7/10/2015 7:51 am, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 1:

Re: What day is it?

On 10/7/2015 11:55 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-10-07 20:46 GMT+02:00 Brent Meeker >: On 10/7/2015 4:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But here Clark contradicts all the textbook on the subject. In fact all what John Clarks says here is that

Re: What day is it?

> On 8 Oct 2015, at 4:36 AM, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > >> On 10/7/2015 2:14 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >> >>> On 7 October 2015 at 17:09, Brent Meeker wrote: >>> >>> On 10/6/2015 10:39 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > On 7 October 2015 at 07:51, Brent Meeker

Re: What day is it?

On 10/7/2015 2:30 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 8 Oct 2015, at 4:36 AM, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 10/7/2015 2:14 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 7 October 2015 at 17:09, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 10/6/2015 10:39 PM,

Re: What day is it?

On 07 Oct 2015, at 18:58, smitra wrote: On 07-10-2015 12:52, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Oct 2015, at 05:11, smitra wrote: On 07-10-2015 02:04, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 4:35 PM, smitra wrote: On 07-10-2015 00:06, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 7/10/2015 7:51 am, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/

Re: What day is it?

On 07 Oct 2015, at 20:43, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/7/2015 3:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But I think that's wrong. Brains are not like ideal von Neumann computers or Turing machines that have "brain states" corresponding to "mental states". If you simulated a brain using a computer y

Re: What day is it?

On 07 Oct 2015, at 23:08, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/7/2015 11:55 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-10-07 20:46 GMT+02:00 Brent Meeker : On 10/7/2015 4:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But here Clark contradicts all the textbook on the subject. In fact all what John Clarks says here is

Re: What day is it?

On 10/7/2015 3:15 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Oct 2015, at 23:08, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/7/2015 11:55 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-10-07 20:46 GMT+02:00 Brent Meeker >: On 10/7/2015 4:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But here Clark contr

Re: What day is it?

On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 4:08 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 10/7/2015 11:55 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > 2015-10-07 20:46 GMT+02:00 Brent Meeker : > >> >> >> On 10/7/2015 4:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> But here Clark contradicts all the textbook on the subject. In fact all >>> what J

Re: What day is it?

On 10/7/2015 5:14 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 4:08 PM, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 10/7/2015 11:55 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-10-07 20:46 GMT+02:00 Brent Meeker mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>>: On 10/7/2015 4:12 AM, Brun