Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 01 Jun 2017, at 02:26, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 1/06/2017 4:43 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 31 May 2017, at 04:01, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 30/05/2017 9:35 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 May 2017, at 11:28, Telmo Menezes wrote: I get your point with decoherence. Again, I would say that it

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 31 May 2017, at 20:21, David Nyman wrote: On 31 May 2017 18:39, "Bruno Marchal" wrote: On 30 May 2017, at 17:00, David Nyman wrote: On 30 May 2017 at 14:48, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 May 2017, at 14:10, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, May 30,

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 1/06/2017 8:21 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 31 May 2017, at 09:15, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 31/05/2017 4:40 pm, Pierz wrote: >> On 5/30/2017 7:30 PM, Pierz wrote: >>> Thanks for these clarifications Bruce. I find your explanations to be very lucid and helpful - they also confirm

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 31 May 2017, at 09:15, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 31/05/2017 4:40 pm, Pierz wrote: On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 3:28:18 PM UTC+10, Brent wrote: Sorry. Something funny with my verizon account. Brent On 5/30/2017 8:09 PM, Pierz Newton-John wrote: > Brent, are you replying from a mobile? I’m

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 1/06/2017 6:28 am, David Nyman wrote: On 31 May 2017 at 04:55, Bruce Kellett > wrote: On 31/05/2017 12:30 pm, Pierz wrote: Thanks for these clarifications Bruce. I find your explanations to be very lucid and helpful -

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 1/06/2017 4:43 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 31 May 2017, at 04:01, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 30/05/2017 9:35 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 May 2017, at 11:28, Telmo Menezes wrote: I get your point with decoherence. Again, I would say that it all depends on theories of mind. What does mind

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 31 May 2017 at 04:55, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 31/05/2017 12:30 pm, Pierz wrote: > > Thanks for these clarifications Bruce. I find your explanations to be very > lucid and helpful - they also confirm my own understanding. > > > Thank you for the kind comments, I

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 31 May 2017, at 04:01, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 30/05/2017 9:35 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 May 2017, at 11:28, Telmo Menezes wrote: I get your point with decoherence. Again, I would say that it all depends on theories of mind. What does mind supervene on? Perhaps it is true that

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 31 May 2017 18:39, "Bruno Marchal" wrote: On 30 May 2017, at 17:00, David Nyman wrote: On 30 May 2017 at 14:48, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 30 May 2017, at 14:10, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Bruno Marchal

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 30 May 2017, at 17:00, David Nyman wrote: On 30 May 2017 at 14:48, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 May 2017, at 14:10, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Right, I agree with you and Pierz on this. My

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 31/05/2017 4:40 pm, Pierz wrote: On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 3:28:18 PM UTC+10, Brent wrote: Sorry. Something funny with my verizon account. Brent On 5/30/2017 8:09 PM, Pierz Newton-John wrote: > Brent, are you replying from a mobile? I’m still receiving your

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 3:28:18 PM UTC+10, Brent wrote: > > Sorry. Something funny with my verizon account. > > Brent > > On 5/30/2017 8:09 PM, Pierz Newton-John wrote: > > Brent, are you replying from a mobile? I’m still receiving your replies, > as others are, on my private email.

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

Sorry. Something funny with my verizon account. Brent On 5/30/2017 8:09 PM, Pierz Newton-John wrote: Brent, are you replying from a mobile? I’m still receiving your replies, as others are, on my private email. That’s what happens to me when I try to reply using my iPhone. The "reply to all"

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 31/05/2017 12:30 pm, Pierz wrote: Thanks for these clarifications Bruce. I find your explanations to be very lucid and helpful - they also confirm my own understanding. Thank you for the kind comments, I try my best to be clear. IIRC, you weren't a particular fan of MWI when I last

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

Thanks for these clarifications Bruce. I find your explanations to be very lucid and helpful - they also confirm my own understanding. IIRC, you weren't a particular fan of MWI when I last conversed with you on this list. I wonder if you'd care to comment on my original argument on this thread

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 30/05/2017 9:35 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 May 2017, at 11:28, Telmo Menezes wrote: I get your point with decoherence. Again, I would say that it all depends on theories of mind. What does mind supervene on? Perhaps it is true that every single coupling with the environment prevents the

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 30 May 2017 at 14:48, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 30 May 2017, at 14:10, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> >>> On 30 May 2017, at 11:28, Telmo Menezes wrote: >>> >>> On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 3:47 AM,

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 30 May 2017, at 14:10, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 May 2017, at 11:28, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 3:47 AM, Pierz wrote: On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 9:14:07 AM UTC+10,

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 1:55 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 30/05/2017 7:28 pm, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >> On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 3:47 AM, Pierz wrote: >>> >>> So you are talking different >>> languages. >> >> Not sure I agree. We are perhaps

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 30 May 2017, at 11:28, Telmo Menezes wrote: > >> On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 3:47 AM, Pierz wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 9:14:07 AM UTC+10, Bruce wrote: On

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 30/05/2017 7:28 pm, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 3:47 AM, Pierz wrote: So you are talking different languages. Not sure I agree. We are perhaps implicitly assuming different theories of mind. I don't know if Telmo is aware or not of the conventional

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 30 May 2017, at 11:28, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 3:47 AM, Pierz wrote: On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 9:14:07 AM UTC+10, Bruce wrote: On 29/05/2017 11:21 pm, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 3:06 PM, Bruce Kellett

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 3:47 AM, Pierz wrote: > > > On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 9:14:07 AM UTC+10, Bruce wrote: >> >> On 29/05/2017 11:21 pm, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> > On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 3:06 PM, Bruce Kellett >> > wrote: >> >> On 29/05/2017 10:42

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 9:14:07 AM UTC+10, Bruce wrote: > > On 29/05/2017 11:21 pm, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 3:06 PM, Bruce Kellett > > wrote: > >> On 29/05/2017 10:42 pm, Telmo Menezes wrote: > >>> On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 2:26 PM, Bruce

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

Isn't this the distinction between many minds and many world's? Whether to draw the bounds if the superposition around the conscious mind or the environment? Does Saibal Mitra's "changing the past by forgetting" assume and rely upon many minds? Jason On May 28, 2017 7:23 AM, "Pierz"

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 29/05/2017 11:21 pm, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 3:06 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 29/05/2017 10:42 pm, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 2:26 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 29/05/2017 6:26 pm, Telmo Menezes

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 3:06 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 29/05/2017 10:42 pm, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >> On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 2:26 PM, Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >>> >>> On 29/05/2017 6:26 pm, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Mon, May 29,

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 29/05/2017 10:42 pm, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 2:26 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 29/05/2017 6:26 pm, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 3:26 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote: I would say that there is only one

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 2:26 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 29/05/2017 6:26 pm, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >> On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 3:26 AM, Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >>> >>> On 29/05/2017 9:45 am, Pierz wrote: >>> >>> WRT to this whole

Fwd: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

-- Forwarded message -- From: David Nyman <da...@davidnyman.com> Date: 26 May 2017 at 19:36 Subject: Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s) To: meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>, Bruno Marchal < bruno.fernand.marc...@gmail.com> On 26 May 2017 18:49, &qu

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 29/05/2017 6:26 pm, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 3:26 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 29/05/2017 9:45 am, Pierz wrote: WRT to this whole multi-coloured T-Rex business, there is a simpler point to be made. My original argument was in favour of MWI. Now

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 3:26 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 29/05/2017 9:45 am, Pierz wrote: > > WRT to this whole multi-coloured T-Rex business, there is a simpler point to > be made. My original argument was in favour of MWI. Now whether, in MWI, > macroscopic

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 4:24 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > On Saturday, May 27, 2017, Russell Standish wrote: >> >> On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 06:30:07PM -0700, Pierz wrote: >> > Recently I've been studying a lot of history, and I've often thought >> >

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 29/05/2017 3:33 pm, Pierz wrote: Russell, do you believe that Schrödinger's cat is in a superposition of dead and alive before we open the box? That depends a little on your point of view. For the 'bird' view from outside the wave function, all superpositions exist timelessly, so the cat

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

Russell, do you believe that Schrödinger's cat is in a superposition of dead and alive before we open the box? On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 3:26:49 PM UTC+10, Bruce wrote: > > On 29/05/2017 2:52 pm, Russell Standish wrote: > > On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 11:26:18AM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > >>

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 29/05/2017 2:52 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 11:26:18AM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: There is another question as to whether we are in a superposition, of say red and green T.Rexes, but that they are in separate decohered worlds and the overlap function is zero FAPP, as

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 11:26:18AM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > There is another question as to whether we are in a superposition, > of say red and green T.Rexes, but that they are in separate > decohered worlds and the overlap function is zero FAPP, as Russell > says. I don't think such a

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 29/05/2017 9:45 am, Pierz wrote: WRT to this whole multi-coloured T-Rex business, there is a simpler point to be made. My original argument was in favour of MWI. Now whether, in MWI, macroscopic histories can merge is surely an interesting puzzle. But /without /MWI, there cannot be any

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

WRT to this whole multi-coloured T-Rex business, there is a simpler point to be made. My original argument was in favour of MWI. Now whether, in MWI, macroscopic histories can merge is surely an interesting puzzle. But *without *MWI, there cannot be any ambiguity about the colour of T-Rexes. In

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 06:37:09PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 28 May 2017, at 14:23, Pierz wrote: > > > > >We are merely ignorant of its state. I would argue the same > >applies to the colour of T. Rex. The past is not in a > >superposition of possible values, but we are ignorant of

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 28-05-2017 04:24, Jason Resch wrote: On Saturday, May 27, 2017, Russell Standish wrote: On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 06:30:07PM -0700, Pierz wrote: Recently I've been studying a lot of history, and I've often thought about how, according to special relativity, you can

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 28 May 2017, at 14:23, Pierz wrote: On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 10:28:52 AM UTC+10, Russell Standish wrote: On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 06:30:07PM -0700, Pierz wrote: > Recently I've been studying a lot of history, and I've often thought about > how, according to special relativity, you can

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 28 May 2017, at 05:46, Russell Standish wrote: On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 09:24:31PM -0500, Jason Resch wrote: Regarding special relatively and collapse, I think the point is that two observers in different reference frames can have different presents. Two humans walking past each other

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 12:24:32 PM UTC+10, Jason wrote: > > > > On Saturday, May 27, 2017, Russell Standish > wrote: > >> On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 06:30:07PM -0700, Pierz wrote: >> > Recently I've been studying a lot of history, and I've often thought >> about >> >

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 10:28:52 AM UTC+10, Russell Standish wrote: > > On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 06:30:07PM -0700, Pierz wrote: > > Recently I've been studying a lot of history, and I've often thought > about > > how, according to special relativity, you can translate time into space > and

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 28 May 2017 4:46 a.m., "Russell Standish" wrote: On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 09:24:31PM -0500, Jason Resch wrote: > > Regarding special relatively and collapse, I think the point is that two > observers in different reference frames can have different presents. Two > humans

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 09:24:31PM -0500, Jason Resch wrote: > > Regarding special relatively and collapse, I think the point is that two > observers in different reference frames can have different presents. Two > humans walking past each other on the sidewalk may have presents that > include

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On Saturday, May 27, 2017, Russell Standish wrote: > On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 06:30:07PM -0700, Pierz wrote: > > Recently I've been studying a lot of history, and I've often thought > about > > how, according to special relativity, you can translate time into space > and >

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 06:30:07PM -0700, Pierz wrote: > Recently I've been studying a lot of history, and I've often thought about > how, according to special relativity, you can translate time into space and > vice versa, and therefore how from a different perspective we can think of > the

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 26 May 2017 at 07:03, Pierz wrote: > > > On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 2:21:37 PM UTC+10, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 5/25/2017 8:36 PM, Pierz Newton-John wrote: >> >> Is something up with Everything List - your reply is not on the site and I’m >> seeing this business with

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 2:21:37 PM UTC+10, Brent wrote: > > > > On 5/25/2017 8:36 PM, Pierz Newton-John wrote: > > Is something up with Everything List - your reply is not on the site and I’m > seeing this business with “reply to David 4” etc…? > > > On 26 May 2017, at 12:29 pm, Brent Meeker

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

On 5/25/2017 8:36 PM, Pierz Newton-John wrote: Is something up with Everything List - your reply is not on the site and I’m seeing this business with “reply to David 4” etc…? On 26 May 2017, at 12:29 pm, Brent Meeker wrote: On 5/25/2017 6:30 PM, Pierz wrote:

Re: A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

I clicked "reply", but for some reason it only went to you. I'll copy to the list. Brent On 5/25/2017 8:36 PM, Pierz Newton-John wrote: Is something up with Everything List - your reply is not on the site and I’m seeing this business with “reply to David 4” etc…? On 26 May 2017, at 12:29

A thought on MWI and its alternative(s)

Recently I've been studying a lot of history, and I've often thought about how, according to special relativity, you can translate time into space and vice versa, and therefore how from a different perspective we can think of the past as distant in space rather than time: my childhood being 40

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