Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

I don't think this posted before, apologies if it is a duplicate: I'm pretty sure the cause of this physics tangent was my assertion that psychology is no worse off than any of the hard sciences in the "unsolved problems" department. Hence, if we think physicists and chemists and biologists have s

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

Thanks, Owen. Yes, it is indeed the case that in the modern perspective of quantum field theory, forces are replaced by the interchange of ("virtual") particles. I didn't want to make my comments unnecessarily complicated by talking about this aspect of field theory, but you're right. I'd like to

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

n...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of John Kennison Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 4:59 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology Yes, I agree with this defense of the concept of universal gravitation. It may seem strange to say that

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

Bruce: Wow, very nice! A+ I was about to mention that although the impact mass has on spacetime gives a means for understanding gravity, it was outside of the interaction model of the Standard Model of elementary particle physics. In the SM, force arises from an interchange particle exchange: h

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

n Behalf Of John Kennison Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 4:59 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology Yes, I agree with this defense of the concept of universal gravitation. It may seem strange to say that objects can inst

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 8:52 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology To Nick: By the word "gravity" what a physicist means is merely "that kind of interaction that masses have with each other, mediated by t

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

To Nick: By the word "gravity" what a physicist means is merely "that kind of interaction that masses have with each other, mediated by the effects mass has on space". The word is useful, because there are four known kinds of "interactions": gravitational, electromagnetic, "weak" (the interaction

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

I like John Archibald Wheeler's brief description of the situation (which appears in print as marginalia in his book _Gravity_ with Misner and Thorne): "Matter tells space how to curve. Space tells matter how to move." Agent-based modeling (with message-passing, even!), you might say. > Bruc

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

riday, May 18, 2012 6:13 PM To: russ.abb...@gmail.com; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology Newton famously said about action at a distance, "I frame no hypotheses". I take this to mean something like the following: &qu

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

ge- From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Sherwood Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 9:16 PM To: Grant Holland Cc: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology Yes, that's what I meant in

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

Curiously, most of the folks I know to whom many folks on this list would ascribe "magical thinking" to, do, I think, have very little trouble with the 50 kilofoot level explanation of General Relativity, and might even go so far as to say, what's the big deal? Trying to explain Special Relativit

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

friam-boun...@redfish.com>] *On Behalf Of *Gillian Densmore *Sent:* Friday, May 18, 2012 6:09 PM *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology Oh oh I have a potentialy unsolvable problem: how come people (me included) consta

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

Yes, that's what I meant in citing Einstein. As for the specifics of the case, Einstein realized that action at a distance was not consistent with the Special Theory of Relativity, that nothing could be communicated at a speed greater than the speed of light. If something suddenly yanked our Sun fa

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

Bruce, Did not Einstein put "action at a distance" wrt gravity to rest with his general theory? Did he not theorize that gravity is a force that curves space-time nearby rather than acting on other masses at a distance? Just askin' Grant On 5/18/12 4:13 PM, Bruce Sherwood wrote: Newton famo

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Gillian Densmore Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 7:12 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology I might add to it underpaying and overworking. On Fri, May 18,

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

rger pattern of which my dumb stuff is a part?” >> >> >> >> N >> >> >> >> *From:* friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On >> Behalf Of *Gillian Densmore >> *Sent:* Friday, May 18, 2012 6:09 PM >> *To:*

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

m] *On > Behalf Of *Gillian Densmore > *Sent:* Friday, May 18, 2012 6:09 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology > > > > Oh oh I have a potentialy unsolvable problem: how come people (me >

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology Oh oh I have a potentialy unsolvable problem: how come people (me included) constantly do dumb stuff? On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Bruce Sherwood wrote: Newton famously said about action at

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

Oh oh I have a potentialy unsolvable problem: how come people (me included) constantly do dumb stuff? On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Bruce Sherwood wrote: > Newton famously said about action at a distance, "I frame no > hypotheses". I take this to mean something like the following: > > "I compl

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

Newton famously said about action at a distance, "I frame no hypotheses". I take this to mean something like the following: "I completely agree with you that I haven't explained gravity. Rather I've shown that observations are consistent with the radical notion that all matter attracts all other m

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

e...@psu.edu] Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 2:25 AM To: Russ Abbott Cc: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology Russ, I am about to get a bit defensive. I'm not sure why I feel the need to defend a discipline I am largely dise

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology Eric, A cannonball shot into the air eventually returns to Earth. In Newtonian physics, we say that the cannonball does so because the Earth exerts a force on the cannonball which pulls it back down. Would you say this is a magical explan

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

LES [e...@psu.edu] > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 2:25 AM > To: Russ Abbott > Cc: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology > > Russ, > I am about to get a bit defensive. I'm not sure why I feel the need to > def

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology Russ, I am about to get a bit defensive. I'm not sure why I feel the need to defend a discipline I am largely disenchanted with, but here it goes: While I would NOT want to let "generally accepted" be a criterion for "solved",

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

Contents of email that I thought I had sent minutes after my last one: > s/someone else/others > Also I wanted to note that this counted > as my belated reply to the alternative medicine thread: perhaps most > medicines, not just 'alternative' varieties, are still

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

Russ, I am about to get a bit defensive. I'm not sure why I feel the need to defend a discipline I am largely disenchanted with, but here it goes: While I would NOT want to let "generally accepted" be a criterion for "solved", I am a bit perturbed by your suspicion that psychology lacks generally

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

t > *Sent:* Thursday, May 17, 2012 8:20 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology > > ** ** > > Perhaps we can approach the question of which problems in psychology have > been solved by asking wh

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

e into play. But you can ignore us. Nick From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Roberts Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 9:59 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group; russ.abb...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psyc

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

Sorry, I've totally lost track, if in fact I ever understood what this new thought exercise was. What's the point? What's the goal? What's the deliverable? Is there any more depth to this new discussion aside from considering how people talk about discussing how actual scientific achievement is

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

ay Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology Perhaps we can approach the question of which problems in psychology have been solved by asking which published results are generally accepted. I suspect there are quite a few--even if most of them are

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

Perhaps we can approach the question of which problems in psychology have been solved by asking which published results are generally accepted. I suspect there are quite a few--even if most of them are relatively low level. *-- Russ* On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 6:30 PM, ERIC P. CHARLES wrote: > Ar

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

Arlo, I agree completely about the process point. I was a bit less certain when you said, "something difficult about psychology is that much of the data has to be collected through someone else - those [people] involved in the study" I assume you would consider a person to be part of the physica

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

17, 2012 4:09 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group; c...@plektyx.com; 'ERIC P. CHARLES' Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology Nick, my name is Jochen. I know 'Jochen Fromm' is hard to pronounce for an English speaking person. At least I

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

It seems so far science and tech have been regarded as thing, or adjectives to describe 'problem' - whereas I consider them processes (and to a much lesser extent philosophies in the) and not necessarily even ones with discrete ends, but more a recursive approach - I see a phenomena, I make a 'magi

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

hat thinks that “Understanding = Control + Bullshit”   From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Carl Tollander Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 9:16 PM To: ERIC P. CHARLES Cc: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology   Eric, so you've got a

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

theories have been disproven? > > > > >From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of >Nicholas Thompson [nickthomp...@earthlink.net] >Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 2:18 AM >To: c...@plektyx.com; 'The Frida

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

ehalf Of John Kennison Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 6:23 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology The Cannonball trajectory problem seems to be solved, but maybe we need to take relativity or whatever into consideration for ce

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology Eric, so you've got a tech problem, not a science problem, and sure, the tech problem of trajectories wrt local gravitation can be "solved". How do I aim the cannon (or the canon) and better, how do I metabolize my error when my initial noti

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

f >> Nicholas Thompson [nickthomp...@earthlink.net] >> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 2:18 AM >> To: c...@plektyx.com; 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology >> >> Well, On Peirce’

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

17, 2012 2:18 AM > To: c...@plektyx.com; 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology > > Well, On Peirce’s account (yes I am still reading Peirce) Truth (or “solved”) > is like “settled law”. It could come u

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

Behalf Of Nicholas Thompson [nickthomp...@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 2:18 AM To: c...@plektyx.com; 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology Well, On Peirce’s account (yes I am still reading Peirce) Truth (

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

. N From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Carl Tollander Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 10:16 PM To: ERIC P. CHARLES Cc: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology Eric, Re: 1) humming makes my sinuses happy, generally

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

Eric, Re: 1) humming makes my sinuses happy, generally. Re: 2) I quite agree, it's not so simple. Yet, one has to start somewhere, and the 'magical thinking' pejoration is, by my lights, kinda simple on the face of it. I don't agree, by any stretch, that all 'bright minds' are necessarily

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

Eric, so you've got a tech problem, not a science problem, and sure, the tech problem of trajectories wrt local gravitation can be "solved". How do I aim the cannon (or the canon) and better, how do I metabolize my error when my initial notion turns out to be a bit off. Still, do we understan

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

Carl, My guess is that Nick can't play the game to anyone's satisfaction in the order you proposed. He could go down that road, but it will digress endlessly and readers will become sad. The only way to have things stay on topic is for someone to propose things until they find one Nick thinks has b

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

uld play for a while, and see where we get: You state a >problem in psychology, and I will try to tell you whether it has been solved >or not. > >Nick > >-Original Message- >From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf >Of Jochen From

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

OK, what does it MEAN to you to have solved a problem in psychology? Are there criteria you can state succinctly? Where did those criteria come from? If you really can't say, phlogiston will have to do. Folks were grappling with how to describe their inner experiences coherently, given all th

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

roblem in psychology, and I will try to tell you whether it has been solved or not. Nick -Original Message- From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Jochen Fromm Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 4:25 PM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FR

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

It is the task of science to replace magical explanations by scientific ones, isn't it? Chemistry has replaced alchemy, astronomy has replaced astrology, neuropsychology has replaced phrenology, etc http://www.flickr.com/photos/mysticpolitics/6333162973/ I must admit I was hoping we could lure Ni

Re: [FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

Jochen, As an indirect answer to your question: One reason why physics, chemistry, and biology seem to be largely complete and self-contained fields is through the progressive banishment of the magical explanations for their phenomenon. There are many traditions in psychology which have, to a great

[FRIAM] Unsolved Problems in Psychology

The classical sciences like physics, chemistry, biology and psychology are similar, they seem to be largely completed and self-contained fields. The major phenomena and subfields are well known, and the available research methods are applied to all common phenomena. The unsolved problems seem t