it is a device for sighted people.
Yes I have mouse games but hardly play them.
I have barely enough space for the mouse.
At 05:30 p.m. 9/02/2011, you wrote:
Yup. well put guys. Most people on here assume oh this is a video
game, therefore I must have sight to play or to get full enjoyment
out o
Must say I too agree here- it's why I tend to dislike realistic RP-related
games/muds- why RP real life when I'm living it every day? If I am going to
RP, I want to RP something I can't do in RL- such as RPing a psychotic
killer?! lol
And yes, killing someone in Rl may be more fun than playing m
If you're worried about throwing out missed punches when your
opponent is on the ground... listen to the sound of them falling, and
wait for them to get up again. There are sounds for that, too...
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I definitely see your point. I play piano remember? There's definitely a
difference between pro mode, and playing a real piano. However what I got
out of Charles's email was basically that there was no point in playing a
game when you can actually play a real instrument, and I disagree with his
Yup. well put guys. Most people on here assume oh this is a video game,
therefore I must have sight to play or to get full enjoyment out of it,
which isn't actually true. I get 100% enjoyment out of games I play. If I
didn't, why would I play them? It's like the whole mouse issue when
audiogame
On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 02:54:45PM -0800, Christopher Bartlett wrote:
> Now, I have no vision. Strategy planning involves reacting not only to my
> opponent, but to the environment, my current life level and weapon load
> (where appropriate) my opponent's condition, and any time-based factors.
On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 06:55:49PM -0500, Phil Vlasak wrote:
> When I sat down in the Ziegfeld theater in New York for the first
> showing of Star Wars the first movie, I got goose bumps
[My Reply:]
Hi Phil,
Have you read David Weber's "Honor Harrington" series, which
have some
well console things aside handhelds with physical knobs and such with
easy function and no menus would work well.
Hi Raul,
This is exactly the attitude I think Yohandi and Orin would like to
see on this list. I myself wouldn't mind seeing it, but I, like you,
feel everyone is entitled to wha
I aggree with you raul.
In fact I am going to try to get a bopit download or something for my
birthday it really does kill time and with the physical knobs.
It's interesting the 100 plus messages on this topic. Even though
I'm totally blind, I'm not turned off by the idea of playing a
mainstr
Hi,
Hmmm...the sword is better than the spear? They seem about equal to me, and
of course the spear has a longer range.
Best Regards,
Hayden
-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Thomas Ward
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 201
on that note I was able to figure out a few pattern puzzle in the
abes odyssey game on ps2.
You have to do a couple timed puzzles which are on different patterns.
then jump in the gaps.
I was able to pay that part of the game.
At 12:27 p.m. 9/02/2011, you wrote:
For fighting games, yes, that is t
Hi Yohandy,
The games you are siting here iare unrealistic. Charles alludeto Guitar Hero
do to the factthat you can actually do better in real life if you are a
musician. (Sorry Ihave to agree with that statement as I am a musician
myself, to a degree).
Best Regards,
Hayden
-Original Messag
thats a point, most vi games have a menu for learning sounds for each char.
Not needed but its a bit better than hit and miss.
The menus are not all the issue.
Then there are cues true not every game has cues that are obvious or
something but they do have them.
Some games have target beeps, etc
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Hi Raul,
This is exactly the attitude I think Yohandi and Orin would like to
see on this list. I myself wouldn't mind seeing it, but I, like you,
feel everyone is entitled to what they think. I can name all sorts of
games that I play which are not designed specifically for the
blind... all th
It's interesting the 100 plus messages on this topic. Even though I'm
totally blind, I'm not turned off by the idea of playing a mainstream
game. It's not a given that a blind person can't fully enjoy a game
designed for the sighted. Throwing out the examples of console games,
let's take a simp
Pro mode, maybe. But keep in mind that even with pro mode the feeling
isn't the same. I don't deny what you said about the game being
positive. But that wasn't the point of Charles's post. The general
sentiment is, playing real guitar / drums is a lot more fun than rock
band, and while I like b
Ok, how about the pro mode feature? I'd say that's bridging the gap between
a gamer and a musician quite well. Even if playing real instruments is more
fun for you, what's wrong with also playing the game? There are plenty of
drummers/guitarists etc that play Rock Band all the time. in fact, mos
Sorry Yohandi, but in terms of rhythm games, I'd have to agree with
Charles. Especially being a musician, it's much more appealing to
bust out my guitar, turn on the amp and just blast away. I can
improvize without being penalized, even... action games are something
completely different. Playin
why play GTA, when you can actually steal cars and beat up people in real
life? Why play Mortal kombat? might as well do real fatalities since that'll
be way more realistic. oh and tank commander? c'mon, use a real tank! much
more fun that way
- Original Message -
From: "Charles Riv
Hilarious, amigo. lol. I know squat about programming... and a game
like that would really, really definitely take years to write.
Especially with one or two people.
At 04:25 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote:
I'd love for this to happen actually. I'd do it myself if I could
program. people need some e
Oh, I understand the stats tom, I just wasn't aware on their precise effects
or what the strength variable actually did.
Beware the grue!
Dark.
- Original Message -
From: "Thomas Ward"
To: "Gamers Discussion list"
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] mot
Ah, didn't know that. Well it could be an interesting gameplay balancer,
especially if you could level up for more strength, gain potions to
temperarily increase your strength etc though this might be going a bit more
rpg than Tom could wish.
Beware the grue#!
Dark.
- Original Message ---
I'd love for this to happen actually. I'd do it myself if I could program.
people need some exposure to the types of mainstream games out there. I
wonder if BGT could handle such a project? Clement, you know anything about
programming? perhaps you could write one *grin*. I think if such a game w
Well Tom, through some wangling on the part of my friend jay, I did end up
at the first midnight showing of revenge of the syth, which was actually fun
because! of the nuts.
I wouldn't have naturally gone at that time myself, but it was quite an
experience being in a cinema with loads of peopl
Rofl. They started out great, then got more and more ridiculous as I read
on. hahaha. nice one.
- Original Message -
From: "Phil Vlasak"
To: "Gamers Discussion list"
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 6:13 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] Ten reasons why blind people play Mortal Kombat.
Ten r
Hi Phil,
Yeah, I know. That was basically my point. The dagger doesn't do as
much damage per strike, but over all it has more strikes doing quite a
lot of damage over all. However, with the sword being enchanted it
has a special ability that multiplies the damage done to certain
monsters in the
brilliant i like that it was really funny.
Ian McNamara
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Hi Thomas,
If a sword can be used 20 times before your strength runs out and causes a
maximum of 10 hit points per hit, then the maximum damage would be 200 hit
points.
But if a dagger could be used 100 times and inflicted 4 hit points per hit,
then the maximum damage could be 400 hit points.
I
HI Dark,
Yeah, I see your point, but like I said let's get the game done first,
and work out all these other details of what goes where and weather it
should or should not be unlockable.
For example, in the new release, beta 18, I'm adding more items to the
game. Two of these is a bronze shield a
Hi Thomas,
I think there are a few reasons to see a movie or read a book on the first
day.
No one can spoil it for you.
And you won't be reading reviews of it before reading or seeing it.
When I sat down in the Ziegfeld theater in New York for the first showing
of Star Wars the first movie, I
Hi Dark,
No, there is a specific strength stat in Mysteries of the Ancients. It
measures things like how many times you can swing a dagger, sword, use
a spear, as well as other things like punches, how long you can hang
from a rope, and lots of stuff. Believe it or not the game is very
stat based.
If you guys like horror, true horror, not monsters or aliens or anything
like that, read The Girl Next door, by Jack Ketchum. I just finished it like
a few days ago, and I don't think I'll ever forget it. that book was just...
well I'm not telling. if you only read one book in your life, let
Hi Phil,
Actually, the game already works this way. The sword uses more
strength than a dagger. I'm not quite sure of the units off the top of
my head, but I think a sword takes 5 units of strength and a dagger
uses only 1. In that way a dagger is a better weapon if you are
conserving strength, b
Hi Dark,
MOTA has a strength variable.
Current Strength: g
As you swing a weapon your strength decreases.
It also is reduced when swinging your fists.
I haven't calculated by how much and if there was a difference depending on
the weapon used.
- Original Message -
From: "dark"
To: "G
Hi Bryan,
Yeah, you are right. There were a few Star Wars nuts, and I do mean
nuts, doing all kinds of weird stuff when Phantom Menace was just
coming out in the theaters. Perhaps the most unusual case I can think
of was a couple who got maried as Darth Mahl and Queen Amidolla. Its
like, "okay, do
Hi Dark,
Oh, I don't think there is anything wrong with your collection. it is
actually quite unique. As it so happens I am a history and myth buff
myself and love statues of mythic creatures and monsters. Plus the
ocational historical treasure to. Truth be told if I hadn't lost my
sight before en
Hahahaha. Good one Phil... that made my day. Thanks for that.
At 03:24 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote:
Hi Phil,
Lol! Again funny as usual. I love the one that says, "at least they
can beat there grandma in the game." That's like the ultimate insult.
On 2/8/11, Phil Vlasak wrote:
> Ten reasons why
Well said, Christopher... and I hear what you are saying completely.
I can explain it in some detail, but I'll answer more questions next
week when I have a new game to show, so I can walk people through
things as I explore for the first time.
In fighting games on this generation of consoles,
Hmmm, I don't think you have strength in mota actually phil, not where
weapons are concerned, if you mean health ie, being wounded causes you to
stop being able to use a powerful weapon, this could prove more irritating
than anything else especially with bosses who can only be killed with melee
Hi Tom.
Well I wouldn't class myself as perhaps that! extreme about Harry potter.
About Dr. who and tolkien, well maybe slightly more so, I do ware an
engraved gold ring in 24 carrot gold with the words of the black speech of
mordor engraved on it, and have had it long before the peter Ja
Hi Dark,
Thomas could balance the use of weapons by adjusting the strength it takes
to swing them.
A sword should require more strength and thus could be used less than a
dagger before your strength is drained.
Of course the fact that creatures can't pass through doors does give you an
advantag
For fighting games, yes, that is the case. For some other games, not
so. It depends on what style of game we talk about.
At 02:05 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote:
Can you please define "accessible" as you use it here? Does it mean that a
person with no vision can play these games on an equal and inde
Hi Phil,
Lol! Again funny as usual. I love the one that says, "at least they
can beat there grandma in the game." That's like the ultimate insult.
On 2/8/11, Phil Vlasak wrote:
> Ten reasons why blind people play Mortal Kombat.
> 10. They like to try new games even if they are difficult.
> 9. A
Ten reasons why blind people play Mortal Kombat.
10. They like to try new games even if they are difficult.
9. All their friends and family are playing the game and they don't want to
be left out.
8. They like to play with joy sticks, and don't care how many points they
score.
7. They got no di
Hi Tom.
That's fair enough, and indeed seems to be usual practice, in fact many
games I've beta tested generally have a bunch of balance fixes as the last
thing on the list once the basic engine is stable and most compatibility
bugs are dealt with.
however, as you are obviously going into le
Folks were doing the same sort of stuff in the months leading up to the
first Star Wars prequel as I recall.
We are the Knights who say...Ni!
- Original Message -
From: "Thomas Ward"
To: "Gamers Discussion list"
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] time
Ok, I would like to understand something. I have heard that there is a lot
of complexity in the fighting games, planning strategies and the like. I
accept that this is true.
Now, I have no vision. Strategy planning involves reacting not only to my
opponent, but to the environment, my current
Hey all,
My brother-in-law is that way. He never used to read until I introduced him
to the Wheel of Time series. Now, he reads the same 13 books over and over
and over and over again. There's probably a psychological term for
this--for when a fantasy world becomes as real or more real than
Hi Hayden,
Correct. The Genesis 3D Engine is basically just a Windows library I
wrote to wrap things like DirectX, the Windows API, as well as other
things in order to basically include it in a game project and go.
Since it is a library all I need to do is reference the library and
classes I neede
Hi Dark,
Smile. Weather you love or hate fan fiction really wasn't my point. My
basic point was that I never got excited or caught up in all the hype
and fanfare the books and movies have generated. Yeah, I've read the
books, I liked them, but they weren't something I'd go to extreme
lengths to re
Can you please define "accessible" as you use it here? Does it mean that a
person with no vision can play these games on an equal and independent
footing with a sighted person? How much additional effort, to refer to
Dark's interesting point is required? Is every game function usable, even
if it
Hey, is the bopit game fully accessible for the blind?
Is the company that put this game out E.A. sports?
Before I get this game I would like to know things so I don't waste my money.
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Hey, does anyone know of any websites that give accessible games for the mac?
I just got mac yesterday and I would like to get some games for the
blind on it.
thandks
--
Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhe
On Mon, Feb 07, 2011 at 02:12:53PM -0500, Yohandy wrote:
> Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when
> you actually aren't even willing to try the game out?
Hey, sometimes I just don't like being friggin reminded of what
I lost, okay? Unless the game has been w
On Mon, Feb 07, 2011 at 01:12:47PM -0500, Yohandy wrote:
> I'm sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band
> samples up. you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some
> street fighter IV samples and various other samples. So why is it that
> when we ask for feedback or
Where can I get legacy 3?
Tommy
- Original Message -
From: "Thomas Ward"
To: "Gamers Discussion list"
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] ADRIFT 3.90 or 4.00, Which Is Better?
Hi Raul,
Now, that you mention it I've seen that type of thing happening.
Hi Raul,
Now, that you mention it I've seen that type of thing happening. I
wasn't aware why that was happening, but thanks to your insight I
guess it is difference between legacy 3.x Adrift games and 4.x based
games. Personally, I like 4.0 better myself.
On 2/7/11, Raul A. Gallegos wrote:
> Tom
Hi Dark,
All I can say is we will see. Part of the problem is here that the
game isn't completed. Oh, I have notes illistrating my ideas for
various aspects of each game level they aren't set in stone, and are
subject to change in development. I'm kind of like a writer who just
writes not knowing
True enough. The reason I'm asking is whether narated menu options
would change the mind of those who wanted to play fighters, but
didn't want to spend time learning menus and such. And it would be
something good for people who enjoyed games with strategy to them, as
well as needing good reflex
That, I will agree with. I only play it when I have friends around...
it has no single-player appeal for me.
At 08:56 AM 08/02/2011, you wrote:
About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask: Why pretend when you can do
it for real? I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp,
crank the volume
Hi, in addition to the web sites posted on here already, I'd be willing
to talk to you via phone, or off list via email on this if you like.
Take care.
On 2/8/2011 12:40 PM, Charles Rivard wrote:
Point out to your kid that the name of the phone is an "I phone", not a
"you phone", so give! me!
You can check out www.applevis.com for a database of accessible apps.
You can also email me off list with any IPhone questions you may have.
-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Charles Rivard
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 201
Hi Charles,
www.applevis.com is your friend as far as accessible apps go. An intire
directory of them.
Orin
orin8...@gmail.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks
Skype: orin1112
On Feb 8, 2011, at 12:40 PM, Charles Rivard wrote:
> Point out to your kid that the name of the phone is an "I
I would not, due to a lack of interest in that kind of game.
---
Shepherds are the best beasts!
- Original Message -
From: "Clement Chou"
To: "Gamers Discussion list"
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
I do
Actually, the new iPhones have new built in screen readers.
- Original Message -
From: "Charles Rivard"
To: "Gamers Discussion list"
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] BopIt for the iPhone and iPod Touch
Point out to your kid that the name of the phone i
Point out to your kid that the name of the phone is an "I phone", not a "you
phone", so give! me! back! my! phone! (grin) I'm going to get an iPhone4
soon, so thanks for the "heads up". I have a whole bunch of iPhone
questions from the point of view of a totally blind user, but they wouldn't
I agree. Now if it was Uilleann Pipe Hero I'd bite since those that's an
instrument that's fascinated me for years. But those things are fearfully
expensive from what I've noticed.
We are the Knights who say...Ni!
- Original Message -
From: "Charles Rivard"
To: "Gamers Discussion
hmmm
If a mainstream did that I would probably try it at least.
Most audio games have cues for sertain events though with the g3d
stuff with the usa mota thing you actually have to view things to see
what it is and if you know it well it doesn't shift so.
At 04:16 p.m. 8/02/2011, you wrote:
I
I usually comment on the games that I have an interest in. As to mainstream
gaming, a lot of them must be used on a gaming console, which I don't have
the money to buy, and, if I could afford one, would the expense be justified
if a very few games are those I would be interested in playing? Th
About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask: Why pretend when you can do it for
real? I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the volume
up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and play along
with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with other
mus
I'm afraid ken, at least in my case, the simple reason is that I don't have
a packmate or braille display.
I'd love to play nethack if I could, but don't have the cash for the
display.
I'm not sure how much this applies to other people, but certainly, the fact
that something is free, or that
Keep in mind the name and purpose of this list. In my opinion, it is to
discuss gaming and games that are, as well as are not, designed for the
blind, that blind people can play, however they accomplish it. How they
accomplish it is a major part of the discussions. In my opinion, a separate
I play it on the way to and from work. It's a great time killer.
-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Raul A. Gallegos
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:40 AM
To: gamers@audyssey.org
Subject: [Audyssey] BopIt for the iPho
I purchased this yesterday for $2.99 and it's really a fun game. It has
all the classic BopIt things like BopIt, PullIt, TwistIt, ETC, but it
also has some new ones like SqueezeIt and PokeIt.
Just thought I'd pass along how neat this game is. I've had to get mean
with my 6 year old cause he wo
Hi Clement,
Clement wrote:
Tom I hope you don't mind me using you as an example...
and hopefully I get a response from this that isn't negative... but it surprised
me to hear that you were planing to get MVC 3. The XBOX360 didn't surprise me, I
figured you'd get it for more of them adventure game
Hi Allison and all,
Let me clarify something I think has been forgotten over the last
couple of years. Back when the Audyssey magazine and list began in the
1990's the intent was to discuss games that were accessible through
accident or design. Of course, at the time there were very few
specific a
I play Mortal Kombat sometimes. It's all mono though, so I don't know where
I am in relation to my opponent. If it had stereo sound and I could figure
out a way to know which player I was, then I would probably get in trouble
with my wife for playing it too frequently.
Ken Downey
President
Dr
I can't do that. I remember my mobility teacher trying to teach me that
skill, and it was the only one I failed to learn--and it was the one I tried
my best to master too. I remember I had a small handheld video game back in
1983. There was a pattern to beating the each level, and it was the
Yep, I'm with ya, both on being a carnivore and having trouble with
accessible games. My hearing fluctuates terribly, and I find games I used
to love, like Pong, very hard on bad days. Mostly I take to writing
nowadays, and sometimes I play NetHack on the Pac mate. I remember being a
kid and
I am made to remember being about ten. My dad got me the Music Constructor
kit for the Commodore 64. My best friend told me that it was all visual,
and that there was no way I would be able to learn it.
So, I stayed up for three days and nights, tinkering, bugging my dad, and
when it was all s
I understand where you're coming from. I put together a game pack form the
Pac Mate a couple years ago that had Scrabble, Chess, Minesweeper, Nethack
and a bunch of other stuff. It took hours to make each game work. I
suppose my mistake was to say that the games were visual. Well, they were
Hi Richard.
I'd be glad to talk about this, especially if you've found a way around wii
menues.
I stil have a snes which I play frequently, and a gamecube with the attached
gameboy player so that I can play games like Metroid zero mission or final
fight.
The mega man series is one i've enj
Unsurprisingly yes, but then again that's not saying much from me, as I'd
play steet fighter anyway if I had the console, and I would get the console
if there were more games I could play for it or if I had more cash.
Beware the grue!
Dark.
- Original Message -
From: "Clement Chou"
I don't want to antagonize anyone. I've made my side, and will
participate in the discussion... but won't make any more attempts to
argue. I will just chip in as I see fit. I want to conclude with 3 points:
1. Yohandi and Orin.. I do agree with the others about being harsh. I
do see the reason
Problem is not everybody enjoys that sort of game. It's just not their
style.
We are the Knights who say...Ni!
- Original Message -
From: "Clement Chou"
To: "Gamers Discussion list"
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 4:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gami
Well said.
We are the Knights who say...Ni!
- Original Message -
From: "Gary Whittington"
To: "Gamers Discussion list"
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Yawn!
A gamer is a person who plays a game.
Not
i think that instead of wecanplay, we could use the brandoncole's
website for putting up articles, reviews, or even guides of menus and
options of various games. the thing is, i think that the site needs more
admins or members that can submite stuff to these areas. we've seen that
dropbox isn't the
I personally think that a separate list for non-blind games would be a
waste of time. I mean, there are already forums and lists out there for
such topics. Of course, if you want to take the time to create yet
another blind-run, list for other games, no one can stop you. I just
think it would b
I don't mean any kind of complicated RPG. I mean a 2d fighting game,
a Street Fighter type game. No complicated walking or picking up
weapons, just a typical fighting game with a decent selection of
characters, good amount of moves per character and a solid combo
system. No audio cues during fi
Sure. We all just need to start working on some material like menus and such
and get that stuff submitted. I think it'll be a great resource if we all do
our part.
- Original Message -
From: "Liam Erven"
To: "'Gamers Discussion list'"
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:40 PM
Subject:
I'd be interested in this kind of list.
You are right about the cash.
I couldn't even afford audio games.
I have had them gotten for birthdays, etc for me but I have no cash.
No job just what government gives me.
I can assure you that thats barely enough to survive, and sertainly
not enough for
hmmm
If someone made a game with the narated options, maybe a few cues and
such, I don't know made it like the audio games for the blind are
today, but was able to have things so we could play it I'd probably get it.
I am not sure what else would need to be done to make it accessible.
Right now
Well ios is a different thing all together.
Internal screenreaders on macs and other things means there are more
chances of getting accessible games.
That loads of stuff works is just cool and for another the i market
and accessible macs in general is not that old only a few years.
The big compa
Thats all well and good saying tht, but I already have my WII which
was a present. I have no space or cash for a PS2 or 3, so need to find
games on my WII.
Either games with simple graphics or that are playable by the sound
with some limited sight.
I do love my WII just need more games for it.
Chee
Hi Dark.
What do you mean about th graphics of Megaman? Its a game I have never
played before? Is iton the WII and is it graphically simple?
I always used to play SNES games well because the graphics were so
simple, games like Super Mario All Stars was great for me because it
was basically 2D with
I also wanted to comment on this message that I am a rockband fan and
other DJ video games out there since I love music it makes you feel like
a rock star.
On 2/7/2011 1:12 PM, Yohandy wrote:
Hey guys,
Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
frustrated with the bl
I have to say we should be open to all ideas of gaming, even though
allot of people like audio games, but we also have to focus on video
gaming as well, otherwise if we don't focus on these issues, neither the
WII nor the sonie Playstation or any gaming systems in this matter will
ever become a
Hi Yohandy,
When I was younger like in my late teens and early twenties video games were
just coming out. So I was still playing pinball and now video games like Pong,
Space Invaders, Missile Command, Pole Position etc. I of course played the
heck out of them both in the arcade as well as at
I don't mean to try and argue, just a point I think should be brought
up. For those who think this should be put onto a separate list
because of traffic issues, keep in mind that any thread about a
mainstream game or game recording usually spans no more than four or
five messages...
At 07:22
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