On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Alex Harui wrote:
> On 8/5/13 8:05 AM, "Marvin Humphrey" wrote:
>>On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Alex Harui wrote:
>>> Agreed, but it would be more welcoming and more of a "committee" if
>>> several folks took the time to welcome.
>>
>> That sounds hard to coor
On 8/5/13 8:05 AM, "Marvin Humphrey" wrote:
>On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Alex Harui wrote:
>> On 8/2/13 9:36 AM, "Roman Shaposhnik" wrote:
>>>On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:17 AM, Christian Grobmeier
>>> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 1:41 AM, Marvin Humphrey
wrote:
I think either
On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Alex Harui wrote:
> On 8/2/13 9:36 AM, "Roman Shaposhnik" wrote:
>>On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:17 AM, Christian Grobmeier
>>wrote:
>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 1:41 AM, Marvin Humphrey
>>> wrote:
>>> I think either the Champion or the Chair should do it. I have a sl
On 8/2/13 9:36 AM, "Roman Shaposhnik" wrote:
>On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:17 AM, Christian Grobmeier
>wrote:
>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 1:41 AM, Marvin Humphrey
>> wrote:
>> I think either the Champion or the Chair should do it. I have a slight
>> preference for the chair.
>> The champion is alrea
On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:17 AM, Christian Grobmeier wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 1:41 AM, Marvin Humphrey
> wrote:
> I think either the Champion or the Chair should do it. I have a slight
> preference for the chair.
> The champion is already known to the project. Having the chair saying
> "Hi
On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 1:41 AM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:11 PM, Ross Gardler
> wrote:
>> I like the concept of "welcoming committee". I think most people do.
>
> I like the idea of a "welcoming committee", too.
+1
>> Problem is, IMHO, its
>> sheet size and diversity o
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:11 PM, Ross Gardler
wrote:
> I like the concept of "welcoming committee". I think most people do.
I like the idea of a "welcoming committee", too.
> The IPMC is supposed to be that welcoming committee.
Yes.
> Problem is, IMHO, its
> sheet size and diversity of opinio
On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 10:37 AM, Alan Cabrera wrote:
>
> On Jul 30, 2013, at 8:44 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 5:55 AM, Marvin Humphrey
>> wrote:
>>> ...Bertrand was skeptical about an ASF-wide ombud, but didn't raise any
>>> objection
>>> to an Incubator-spe
On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 2:05 AM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> Bertrand, Christian, Alex,
>
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 12:44 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
> wrote:
>> people should feel
>> free to contact people that they trust (IPMC members, mentors, ASF
>> members) privately if there's a need, and not havi
On Jul 30, 2013, at 8:44 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 5:55 AM, Marvin Humphrey
> wrote:
>> ...Bertrand was skeptical about an ASF-wide ombud, but didn't raise any
>> objection
>> to an Incubator-specific position.
>>http://s.apache.org/NAa
> ...
>
> Just lazin
Interesting observations.
I like the concept of "welcoming committee". I think most people do. The
IPMC is supposed to be that welcoming committee. Problem is, IMHO, its
sheet size and diversity of opinion makes it pretty unwelcoming and often
contradictory in its advice - even when that advice is
On 7/30/13 5:05 PM, "Marvin Humphrey" wrote:
>Bertrand, Christian, Alex,
>
>On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 12:44 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
> wrote:
>> people should feel
>> free to contact people that they trust (IPMC members, mentors, ASF
>> members) privately if there's a need, and not having someone
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 3:29 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J)
wrote:
> I'm -0 on the initiative. I don't support it, but then again, since
> I'm not willing to propose something different and since at least
> some people think it's needed, I'm not going to stand in its way.
Same here: -0. I still bel
ting the review and summarizing the thread and the
various views within it so that we can see what "as appropriate" is ;-)
Ross
Sent from my Windows Phone From: Dave Fisher
Sent: 7/29/2013 11:03 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Cc: Ross Gardler
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the In
Bertrand, Christian, Alex,
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 12:44 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
wrote:
> people should feel
> free to contact people that they trust (IPMC members, mentors, ASF
> members) privately if there's a need, and not having someone elected
> in the ombudsman role means people are free to
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:14 PM, Alex Harui wrote:
> On 7/30/13 12:50 PM, "Christian Grobmeier" wrote:
> +1 from me too. However...
>>If podlings don't know where to go we need to tell them they can ping
>>people
>>they trust in private AND they always can speak about problems in public
>>on ge
On 7/30/13 12:50 PM, "Christian Grobmeier" wrote:
>On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 9:44 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 5:55 AM, Marvin Humphrey
>> wrote:
>>> ...Bertrand was skeptical about an ASF-wide ombud, but didn't raise
>>>any objection
>>> to an Incubator-specific po
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 9:44 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 5:55 AM, Marvin Humphrey
> wrote:
>> ...Bertrand was skeptical about an ASF-wide ombud, but didn't raise any
>> objection
>> to an Incubator-specific position.
>> http://s.apache.org/NAa
> ...
>
> Just laz
July 30, 2013 3:44 AM
To: "general@incubator.apache.org"
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman
>On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 5:55 AM, Marvin Humphrey
>wrote:
>> ...Bertrand was skeptical about an ASF-wide ombud, but didn't raise any
>>objection
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 5:55 AM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> ...Bertrand was skeptical about an ASF-wide ombud, but didn't raise any
> objection
> to an Incubator-specific position.
> http://s.apache.org/NAa
...
Just laziness on my part...what I said there also applies to an
Incubator ombudsman
On Jul 29, 2013, at 8:55 PM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 8:13 PM, Ross Gardler
> wrote:
>> The IPMC has been incapable of any kind if action for a long time. Full
>> consensus is not possible, what is required is progress.
>
> The Incubator is making plenty of progress. Day
On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 8:13 PM, Ross Gardler
wrote:
> The IPMC has been incapable of any kind if action for a long time. Full
> consensus is not possible, what is required is progress.
The Incubator is making plenty of progress. Day by day out on the podling
lists, contributors are absorbing in
7/28/2013 4:50 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman
On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 1:22 AM, Alan Cabrera wrote:
> I was thinking that it might be a good idea to keep things simple and have
> Marvin simply appoint the Ombudsman for an indeter
On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 1:22 AM, Alan Cabrera wrote:
> I was thinking that it might be a good idea to keep things simple and have
> Marvin simply appoint the Ombudsman for an indeterminate term.
While I am now inclined to support establishing an experimental ombud role
given Jim's participation,
Sorry. :)
I was looking for the document that Joe created but I cannot seem to find it.
Can someone point out where it is?
I was thinking that it might be a good idea to keep things simple and have
Marvin simply appoint the Ombudsman for an indeterminate term.
Regards,
Alan
On Jul 17, 2013
Anything ever come from this?
-
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FWIW, my concerns about an Ombudsman are:
1) I had no idea what an Ombudsman was. I'd heard of it, but never had to
work with one before. I had to go look it up. If I had a complaint, I'm
not sure I would know to look up that word to find the email address to
complain to.
2) If you create a rol
On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 6:03 AM, Ross Gardler
wrote:
> +10.99
+Inf
Good grief, could there be a better candidate, in terms of either substance or
symbolism?
> (the .9 is for Marvins amusement ;-)
"It worked!"
Marvin Humphrey
---
+10.99
(the .9 is for Marvins amusement ;-)
Ross
On 20 June 2013 14:00, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> If the idea of the 'Ombudsman' is sort of like an 'elder
> Statesman' role as well, then I may be interested...
>
> On Jun 20, 2013, at 4:29 AM, Daniel Shahaf wrote:
>
>
If the idea of the 'Ombudsman' is sort of like an 'elder
Statesman' role as well, then I may be interested...
On Jun 20, 2013, at 4:29 AM, Daniel Shahaf wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 01:44:14PM -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
>>
>> On Jun 19, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Alan Cabrera wrote:
>>
>>> I would p
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 7:42 PM, Alan Cabrera wrote:
> ...I think that it would be a great idea to have an ASF wide ombudsman
> instead...
We don't have that, and I don't think we need it - people should feel
free to contact people that they trust (officers, board members, ASF
members) privately
On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 01:44:14PM -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
>
> On Jun 19, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Alan Cabrera wrote:
>
> > I would prefer to use well known names for well known roles. Ombudsman is
> > a roll that's been around for quite a while and the person filling that
> > role for the ASF wil
On Jun 19, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Alan Cabrera wrote:
> I would prefer to use well known names for well known roles. Ombudsman is a
> roll that's been around for quite a while and the person filling that role
> for the ASF will be doing roughly the same thing as ombudsman in other
> organizations.
On 19 June 2013 17:41, Alan Cabrera wrote:
> I will also point out that it seems to me that those who are opposed or, at
> best, lukewarm to the idea are well established and well > connected
> individuals in the ASF sphere.
Useful observation. It is so easy for us to think what we learned
year
I would prefer to use well known names for well known roles. Ombudsman is a
roll that's been around for quite a while and the person filling that role for
the ASF will be doing roughly the same thing as ombudsman in other
organizations.
With that said, I will agree that if everything is runnin
Alexei,
To answer your two points.
Firstly they may want to complain in private. Without that option they
may just suffer in silence.
As to your Eco-champion idea, can I suggest you add it to the wiki page
Bertrand created?
Upayavira
On Wed, Jun 19, 2013, at 06:50 AM, Alexei Fedotov wrote:
> H
Hello,
Why one would need an additional alias? Existing questions are sent to
general@ or dev@community or (please add here), and one in the superhero
role should timely answer them or facilitate an answer. [Complex question]
tag in the subject line should be sufficient, or just no answer to some
On 18 June 2013 23:53, Joe Schaefer wrote:
> Why so much reluctance to just honor the request such as it is
> instead of looking for different ways of modifying it to taste?
ISSUE 03 at work I think - perhaps it is my fault for thinking aloud
about how the role might also help solve a different p
of looking for different ways of modifying it to taste?
- Original Message -
> From: Dave Fisher
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Cc:
> Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 6:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman
>
> I think what we
>
> - Original Message -
>> From: Marvin Humphrey
>> To: general@incubator.apache.org
>> Cc:
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 6:13 PM
>> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 9:14 PM, Ma
ent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 6:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman
>
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 9:14 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J)
> wrote:
>> I'm not in favor of an Ombudsman. Seems like an extra
>> layer of overhead beyond what the Chair
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 9:14 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J)
wrote:
> I'm not in favor of an Ombudsman. Seems like an extra
> layer of overhead beyond what the Chair already provides. Seriously
> does someone need a title in order to be the clearinghouse for folks'
> honest assessments of the Incubat
Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org"
Date: Monday, June 17, 2013 7:11 PM
To: "general@incubator.apache.org"
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman
>On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 8:55 PM, Alex Harui wrote:
>> Just curious, is the ombudsman not allowed to
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 8:55 PM, Alex Harui wrote:
> Just curious, is the ombudsman not allowed to be a mentor for a podling?
> Otherwise, that podling doesn't have a safe third-party?
Good point. Podlings are heavily dependent on their Mentors, especially for
providing IPMC votes on releases.
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 9:27 PM, Joseph Schaefer wrote:
> So just chill out for a moment or two and try to take in the more
> substantive issue around having someone who is proactively tasked with
> gathering data about our overall performance as seen through the eyes of our
> consumers. This isn
On Jun 17, 2013, at 10:58 AM, Benson Margulies wrote:
> A paradox:
>
> The VP is not supposed to exercise authority in normal circumstances.
> Projects are supposed to have mentors that advocate for them. If a
> project comes 'to the ombudsman', whether that's the VP or not, what
> can this per
A paradox:
The VP is not supposed to exercise authority in normal circumstances.
Projects are supposed to have mentors that advocate for them. If a
project comes 'to the ombudsman', whether that's the VP or not, what
can this person do? All they can do is bring the matter to the
community. If it's
On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 08:52:38AM -0700, Alan Cabrera wrote:
>
> Problem: podlings are confused on where to go when there's a problem.
>
> Cause: we seem to collect/handle/organize problems in an ad hoc manner and
> sometimes mentors are the problem.
>
> Solution: we create an elected Incuba
I'll grant you that it is an imperfect analogy, but I have no idea why you
continue to make such a fuss about things we've all come to accept about roles
and responsibilities of a chair. Nobody is questioning the traditional role
you seek for yourself, and you can take comfort in the idea that
On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Joseph Schaefer
wrote:
> This argument reminds me of the current debate in Congress about whether or
> not military sex offense reporting should remain within the chain of
> command. Proponents argue that it's hard to hold commanders accountable if
> they aren't e
On 6/16/13 10:36 AM, "Alan Cabrera" wrote:
>
>On Jun 15, 2013, at 10:52 AM, Joseph Schaefer
>wrote:
>
>> This is a suggestion that has come up in the past, and the typical
>>counter-argument is that this is something the chair needs to provide
>>themselves.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>The us
.apache.org
> Cc:
> Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 1:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman
>
> I think that it would be a great idea to have an ASF wide ombudsman instead.
>
> There's been a few times where I've been personally asked to
ing we recently
> discussed in relation to the recent chair vote.
>
>
> - Original Message -
>> From: Alan Cabrera
>> To: general@incubator.apache.org
>> Cc:
>> Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 1:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incu
I think that it would be a great idea to have an ASF wide ombudsman instead.
There's been a few times where I've been personally asked to watch the goings
on in another project by a committer, or ASF member, to provide an outside
opinion as to what's going on, only to receive the ire of the proj
ing we recently
discussed in relation to the recent chair vote.
- Original Message -
> From: Alan Cabrera
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Cc:
> Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 1:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman
>
>
> On Jun 15, 2013,
On Jun 15, 2013, at 10:52 AM, Joseph Schaefer wrote:
> This is a suggestion that has come up in the past, and the typical
> counter-argument is that this is something the chair needs to provide
> themselves.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
The usual reason for an ombudsman is to have a safe third pa
Good point. For non-incubator problems they shouldn't limit themselves to
the incubator. They should be (and are) on the relevant committees.
For me the ombudsmen would be the people that speak for the incubation
process and point those suffering from ISSUE 01 in the right direction.
Again I refe
Let me add that a TLP sometimes get confused when it faces a problem. :-)
Why these problem solving superheroes should limit themselves to the
incubator?
15.06.2013 19:53 пользователь "Alan Cabrera" написал:
>
> Problem: podlings are confused on where to go when there's a problem.
>
> Cause: we
This argument reminds me of the current debate in Congress about whether or not
military sex offense reporting should remain within the chain of command.
Proponents argue that it's hard to hold commanders accountable if they aren't
empowered to act; adversaries say victims are afraid to report w
On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Alan Cabrera wrote:
> Problem: podlings are confused on where to go when there's a problem.
>
> Cause: we seem to collect/handle/organize problems in an ad hoc manner and
> sometimes mentors are the problem.
>
> Solution: we create an elected Incubator Ombudsman.
sity of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> ++
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Joseph Schaefer
> Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org"
> Date: Saturday, June 15, 2013 10:52 AM
> To: "general@incubator.apache.org"
> Subject: Re: [PROPO
On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Alan Cabrera wrote:
>
> Problem: podlings are confused on where to go when there's a problem.
>
> Cause: we seem to collect/handle/organize problems in an ad hoc manner and
> sometimes mentors are the problem.
>
> Solution: we create an elected Incubator Ombudsma
++
-Original Message-
From: Joseph Schaefer
Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org"
Date: Saturday, June 15, 2013 10:52 AM
To: "general@incubator.apache.org"
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator O
This is a suggestion that has come up in the past, and the typical
counter-argument is that this is something the chair needs to provide
themselves.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 15, 2013, at 1:18 PM, Ross Gardler wrote:
> Sent from a mobile device, please excuse mistakes and brevity
> On 15 Jun
Sent from a mobile device, please excuse mistakes and brevity
On 15 Jun 2013 16:53, "Alan Cabrera" wrote:
>
>
> Problem: podlings are confused on where to go when there's a problem.
>
> Cause: we seem to collect/handle/organize problems in an ad hoc manner
and sometimes mentors are the problem.
>
Problem: podlings are confused on where to go when there's a problem.
Cause: we seem to collect/handle/organize problems in an ad hoc manner and
sometimes mentors are the problem.
Solution: we create an elected Incubator Ombudsman.
Regards,
Alan
---
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