On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote:
On 8/5/13 8:05 AM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote:
On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote:
Agreed, but it would be more welcoming and more of a committee if
several folks took the time
On 8/5/13 8:05 AM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote:
On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote:
On 8/2/13 9:36 AM, Roman Shaposhnik r...@apache.org wrote:
On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:17 AM, Christian Grobmeier
grobme...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at
On 8/2/13 9:36 AM, Roman Shaposhnik r...@apache.org wrote:
On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:17 AM, Christian Grobmeier grobme...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 1:41 AM, Marvin Humphrey
mar...@rectangular.com wrote:
I think either the Champion or the Chair should do it. I have a slight
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:11 PM, Ross Gardler
rgard...@opendirective.com wrote:
I like the concept of welcoming committee. I think most people do.
I like the idea of a welcoming committee, too.
The IPMC is supposed to be that welcoming committee.
Yes.
Problem is, IMHO, its
sheet size and
Interesting observations.
I like the concept of welcoming committee. I think most people do. The
IPMC is supposed to be that welcoming committee. Problem is, IMHO, its
sheet size and diversity of opinion makes it pretty unwelcoming and often
contradictory in its advice - even when that advice is
On Jul 30, 2013, at 8:44 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org wrote:
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 5:55 AM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com
wrote:
...Bertrand was skeptical about an ASF-wide ombud, but didn't raise any
objection
to an Incubator-specific position.
On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 2:05 AM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote:
Bertrand, Christian, Alex,
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 12:44 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
bdelacre...@apache.org wrote:
people should feel
free to contact people that they trust (IPMC members, mentors, ASF
members)
On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 10:37 AM, Alan Cabrera l...@toolazydogs.com wrote:
On Jul 30, 2013, at 8:44 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org
wrote:
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 5:55 AM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com
wrote:
...Bertrand was skeptical about an ASF-wide ombud, but
On Jul 29, 2013, at 8:55 PM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 8:13 PM, Ross Gardler
rgard...@opendirective.com wrote:
The IPMC has been incapable of any kind if action for a long time. Full
consensus is not possible, what is required is progress.
The Incubator is making
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 5:55 AM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote:
...Bertrand was skeptical about an ASF-wide ombud, but didn't raise any
objection
to an Incubator-specific position.
http://s.apache.org/NAa
...
Just laziness on my part...what I said there also applies to an
Date: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 3:44 AM
To: general@incubator.apache.org general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 5:55 AM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com
wrote:
...Bertrand was skeptical about an ASF-wide ombud, but didn't
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 9:44 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
bdelacre...@apache.org wrote:
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 5:55 AM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com
wrote:
...Bertrand was skeptical about an ASF-wide ombud, but didn't raise any
objection
to an Incubator-specific position.
On 7/30/13 12:50 PM, Christian Grobmeier grobme...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 9:44 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
bdelacre...@apache.org wrote:
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 5:55 AM, Marvin Humphrey
mar...@rectangular.com wrote:
...Bertrand was skeptical about an ASF-wide ombud, but didn't
and the
various views within it so that we can see what as appropriate is ;-)
Ross
Sent from my Windows Phone From: Dave Fisher
Sent: 7/29/2013 11:03 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Cc: Ross Gardler
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman
On Jul 29, 2013, at 8:55 PM
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 3:29 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J)
chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov wrote:
I'm -0 on the initiative. I don't support it, but then again, since
I'm not willing to propose something different and since at least
some people think it's needed, I'm not going to stand in its way.
On 7/30/13 5:05 PM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote:
Bertrand, Christian, Alex,
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 12:44 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
bdelacre...@apache.org wrote:
people should feel
free to contact people that they trust (IPMC members, mentors, ASF
members) privately if
On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 8:13 PM, Ross Gardler
rgard...@opendirective.com wrote:
The IPMC has been incapable of any kind if action for a long time. Full
consensus is not possible, what is required is progress.
The Incubator is making plenty of progress. Day by day out on the podling
lists,
On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 1:22 AM, Alan Cabrera l...@toolazydogs.com wrote:
I was thinking that it might be a good idea to keep things simple and have
Marvin simply appoint the Ombudsman for an indeterminate term.
While I am now inclined to support establishing an experimental ombud role
given
/2013 4:50 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman
On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 1:22 AM, Alan Cabrera l...@toolazydogs.com wrote:
I was thinking that it might be a good idea to keep things simple and have
Marvin simply appoint the Ombudsman
Anything ever come from this?
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
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On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 01:44:14PM -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
On Jun 19, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Alan Cabrera wrote:
I would prefer to use well known names for well known roles. Ombudsman is
a roll that's been around for quite a while and the person filling that
role for the ASF will be
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 7:42 PM, Alan Cabrera l...@toolazydogs.com wrote:
...I think that it would be a great idea to have an ASF wide ombudsman
instead...
We don't have that, and I don't think we need it - people should feel
free to contact people that they trust (officers, board members, ASF
If the idea of the 'Ombudsman' is sort of like an 'elder
Statesman' role as well, then I may be interested...
On Jun 20, 2013, at 4:29 AM, Daniel Shahaf danie...@apache.org wrote:
On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 01:44:14PM -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
On Jun 19, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Alan Cabrera wrote:
+10.99
(the .9 is for Marvins amusement ;-)
Ross
On 20 June 2013 14:00, Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com wrote:
If the idea of the 'Ombudsman' is sort of like an 'elder
Statesman' role as well, then I may be interested...
On Jun 20, 2013, at 4:29 AM, Daniel
On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 6:03 AM, Ross Gardler
rgard...@opendirective.com wrote:
+10.99
+Inf
Good grief, could there be a better candidate, in terms of either substance or
symbolism?
(the .9 is for Marvins amusement ;-)
It worked!
Marvin Humphrey
FWIW, my concerns about an Ombudsman are:
1) I had no idea what an Ombudsman was. I'd heard of it, but never had to
work with one before. I had to go look it up. If I had a complaint, I'm
not sure I would know to look up that word to find the email address to
complain to.
2) If you create a
Alexei,
To answer your two points.
Firstly they may want to complain in private. Without that option they
may just suffer in silence.
As to your Eco-champion idea, can I suggest you add it to the wiki page
Bertrand created?
Upayavira
On Wed, Jun 19, 2013, at 06:50 AM, Alexei Fedotov wrote:
I would prefer to use well known names for well known roles. Ombudsman is a
roll that's been around for quite a while and the person filling that role for
the ASF will be doing roughly the same thing as ombudsman in other
organizations.
With that said, I will agree that if everything is
On 19 June 2013 17:41, Alan Cabrera l...@toolazydogs.com wrote:
I will also point out that it seems to me that those who are opposed or, at
best, lukewarm to the idea are well established and well connected
individuals in the ASF sphere.
Useful observation. It is so easy for us to think
On Jun 19, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Alan Cabrera wrote:
I would prefer to use well known names for well known roles. Ombudsman is a
roll that's been around for quite a while and the person filling that role
for the ASF will be doing roughly the same thing as ombudsman in other
organizations.
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 9:14 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J)
chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov wrote:
I'm not in favor of an Ombudsman. Seems like an extra
layer of overhead beyond what the Chair already provides. Seriously
does someone need a title in order to be the clearinghouse for folks'
honest
, June 18, 2013 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 9:14 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J)
chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov wrote:
I'm not in favor of an Ombudsman. Seems like an extra
layer of overhead beyond what the Chair already provides
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 9:14 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J)
chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov wrote:
I'm not in favor of an Ombudsman. Seems like an extra
layer
ways of modifying it to taste?
- Original Message -
From: Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman
I think what we really should discuss is how the IPMC
On 18 June 2013 23:53, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote:
Why so much reluctance to just honor the request such as it is
instead of looking for different ways of modifying it to taste?
ISSUE 03 at work I think - perhaps it is my fault for thinking aloud
about how the role might also
Hello,
Why one would need an additional alias? Existing questions are sent to
general@ or dev@community or (please add here), and one in the superhero
role should timely answer them or facilitate an answer. [Complex question]
tag in the subject line should be sufficient, or just no answer to some
On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 08:52:38AM -0700, Alan Cabrera wrote:
Problem: podlings are confused on where to go when there's a problem.
Cause: we seem to collect/handle/organize problems in an ad hoc manner and
sometimes mentors are the problem.
Solution: we create an elected Incubator
A paradox:
The VP is not supposed to exercise authority in normal circumstances.
Projects are supposed to have mentors that advocate for them. If a
project comes 'to the ombudsman', whether that's the VP or not, what
can this person do? All they can do is bring the matter to the
community. If
On Jun 17, 2013, at 10:58 AM, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote:
A paradox:
The VP is not supposed to exercise authority in normal circumstances.
Projects are supposed to have mentors that advocate for them. If a
project comes 'to the ombudsman', whether that's the VP or not,
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 8:55 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote:
Just curious, is the ombudsman not allowed to be a mentor for a podling?
Otherwise, that podling doesn't have a safe third-party?
Good point. Podlings are heavily dependent on their Mentors, especially for
providing IPMC votes
...@rectangular.com
Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org general@incubator.apache.org
Date: Monday, June 17, 2013 7:11 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 8:55 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote
Let me add that a TLP sometimes get confused when it faces a problem. :-)
Why these problem solving superheroes should limit themselves to the
incubator?
15.06.2013 19:53 пользователь Alan Cabrera a...@toolazydogs.com написал:
Problem: podlings are confused on where to go when there's a
Good point. For non-incubator problems they shouldn't limit themselves to
the incubator. They should be (and are) on the relevant committees.
For me the ombudsmen would be the people that speak for the incubation
process and point those suffering from ISSUE 01 in the right direction.
Again I
On Jun 15, 2013, at 10:52 AM, Joseph Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote:
This is a suggestion that has come up in the past, and the typical
counter-argument is that this is something the chair needs to provide
themselves.
Sent from my iPhone
The usual reason for an ombudsman is to
discussed in relation to the recent chair vote.
- Original Message -
From: Alan Cabrera l...@toolazydogs.com
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Cc:
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman
On Jun 15, 2013, at 10:52 AM, Joseph
I think that it would be a great idea to have an ASF wide ombudsman instead.
There's been a few times where I've been personally asked to watch the goings
on in another project by a committer, or ASF member, to provide an outside
opinion as to what's going on, only to receive the ire of the
recently
discussed in relation to the recent chair vote.
- Original Message -
From: Alan Cabrera l...@toolazydogs.com
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Cc:
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman
On Jun 15, 2013, at 10:52 AM
On 6/16/13 10:36 AM, Alan Cabrera l...@toolazydogs.com wrote:
On Jun 15, 2013, at 10:52 AM, Joseph Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com
wrote:
This is a suggestion that has come up in the past, and the typical
counter-argument is that this is something the chair needs to provide
themselves.
On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Joseph Schaefer
joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote:
This argument reminds me of the current debate in Congress about whether or
not military sex offense reporting should remain within the chain of
command. Proponents argue that it's hard to hold commanders
I'll grant you that it is an imperfect analogy, but I have no idea why you
continue to make such a fuss about things we've all come to accept about roles
and responsibilities of a chair. Nobody is questioning the traditional role
you seek for yourself, and you can take comfort in the idea that
Sent from a mobile device, please excuse mistakes and brevity
On 15 Jun 2013 16:53, Alan Cabrera a...@toolazydogs.com wrote:
Problem: podlings are confused on where to go when there's a problem.
Cause: we seem to collect/handle/organize problems in an ad hoc manner
and sometimes mentors are
This is a suggestion that has come up in the past, and the typical
counter-argument is that this is something the chair needs to provide
themselves.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 15, 2013, at 1:18 PM, Ross Gardler rgard...@opendirective.com wrote:
Sent from a mobile device, please excuse
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman
This is a suggestion that has come up in the past, and the typical
counter-argument is that this is something the chair needs to provide
themselves.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 15, 2013, at 1:18 PM, Ross Gardler rgard
On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Alan Cabrera a...@toolazydogs.com wrote:
Problem: podlings are confused on where to go when there's a problem.
Cause: we seem to collect/handle/organize problems in an ad hoc manner and
sometimes mentors are the problem.
Solution: we create an elected
++
-Original Message-
From: Joseph Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com
Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org general@incubator.apache.org
Date: Saturday, June 15, 2013 10:52 AM
To: general@incubator.apache.org general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator
On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Alan Cabrera a...@toolazydogs.com wrote:
Problem: podlings are confused on where to go when there's a problem.
Cause: we seem to collect/handle/organize problems in an ad hoc manner and
sometimes mentors are the problem.
Solution: we create an elected
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