From: floriano [EMAIL PROTECTED]
With due respect to Fr. Ivo, and not in the least intending to be
anything but genuinely concerned, I belive that what is going around in
the the name of God is nothing but a 'MLM' (multi-level-marketing)
marketing GOD left-right and center, one more
From: Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have simply shown that the Cardinal seems to believe
in a God who is NOT a fact in the world nor an idea
nor a hypothesis that can be proved or disproved - a
God who is a mystery that cannot be conceptually
From: CORNEL DACOSTA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dear Fr Ivo
Apropos this discussion, your explanation for the
existence of a God is perfectly understandable as from
a sincere clergyman. To me, much such explanation is
akin to mysticism that one tends to either accept or
reject.
Often, my dear Fr Ivo,
I tried reading the full text of the Cardinal's speech that was kindly
web-linked as well as the abstracts that were posted.
The writings were Latin to me with some Greek philosophy.
Aum supurlo Goenkar murree.
The discussion on Goanet is a classical example of:
The eyes see and the brain reads
own heaven on earth
going to DOGs.
rgds
fc
- Original Message -
From: Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Catholic Goeankars N.B. 'Respect atheists',says
Cardinal
I believe in the God revealed
Dear Fr Ivo
Apropos this discussion, your explanation for the
existence of a God is perfectly understandable as from
a sincere clergyman. To me, much such explanation is
akin to mysticism that one tends to either accept or
reject.
For the theist, at its simplest, God exists because of
the
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 01:54:36 +0530
From: Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I am stating again that the Cardinal did not say what
is being quoted, he means exactly the contrary.
God is not to be treated as an object of science, but
as a mystery, as a living reality that exists and can
be
--- Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I cannot see how Dr.Santosh found what he is
stating...
In my last post I have stated what the Cardinal said.
I found what he said in the transcript of his recent
lecture, the link to which is once again given below:
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 07:11:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have simply shown that the Cardinal seems to believe
in a God who is NOT a fact in the world nor an idea
nor a hypothesis that can be proved or disproved - a
God who is a mystery that cannot be conceptually
From: CORNEL DACOSTA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To me, much such explanation is
akin to mysticism that one tends to either accept or
reject.
***I have quoted the words of the Cardinal to show that the passage
taken out of the context is being misunderstood.
Those are not my words, not mere mysticism,
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I cannot see how Dr.Santosh found what he is
stating...
In my last post I have stated what the Cardinal said.
...Others like Fr. Ivo will interpret his words in a manner that
pleases them, or reaffirms their own beliefs.
***You have to interpret his
From: Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I am stating again that the Cardinal did not say what
is being quoted, he means exactly the contrary.
God is not to be treated as an object of science, but
as a mystery, as a living reality that exists and can
be experienced.
***I was reacting to the
--- Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
*** The Cardinal is not, therefore, saying what
Dr.Santosh is making him
say...
What the Cardinal has said about the supernatural not
being a fact in the world, but a mystery, is given
below. Fr. Ivo is mistaken in his belief that I have
made
Dear Fr Ivo
What the Cardinal (Murphy O'Connor) said in London is
exactly as quoted by Santosh. Santosh has made nothing
up as you imply. Nor is he making him [the Cardinal]
say anything. You are of course free to interpret the
Cardinal as you wish and you can even interpret
Santosh as you wish
Fr. Ivo, I too along with Santosh and Cornel feel that you are
completely spinning what the Cardinal said.
Here is a red hat at last giving the Church a platform of belief, an
opportunity to completely avoid the conclusions of the inexorable
march of scientific and historical proof that gathers
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
*** The Cardinal is not, therefore, saying what
Dr.Santosh is making him
say...
***Thanks to Dr.Santosh for providing me with the link of the lecture
of the Cardinal Cormack Murphy-O'Connor.
I had stated
From: CORNEL DACOSTA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
What the Cardinal (Murphy-O'Connor) said in London is
exactly as quoted by Santosh. Santosh has made nothing
up as you imply. Nor is he making him [the Cardinal]
say anything.
***Quoting a passage outside the context is not to say exactly what the
From: Roland Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I too along with Santosh and Cornel feel that you are
completely spinning what the Cardinal said.
***Read the full lecture and try to understand it. Like Dr.Santosh and
Cornel you have not understood well the full lecture.
In other words, he has in one
'...
Fr.Ivo
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Catholic Goeankars N.B. 'Respect atheists',says
Cardinal
--- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
See, all Cardinals are not pompous idiots. This one
has figured out that you all have
Quoting Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor:
I want to encourage people of faith to regard those
without faith with deep esteem because the hidden God
is active in their lives as well as in the lives of
those who believe.
The leader of Roman Catholics in England and Wales
said that a hidden God was
--- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
See, all Cardinals are not pompous idiots. This one
has figured out that you all have a hidden God
operating behind the scenes that you are not aware
of.
Try disproving THAT scientifically:-))
Science can only attempt to prove or disprove what
'Respect atheists', says Cardinal
Cardinal Murphy-O'Connor
Cardinal Murphy-O'Connor urges deeper understanding between believers
and non-believers
The Archbishop of Westminster has urged Christians to treat atheists
and agnostics with deep esteem.
Believers may be partly responsible for the
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