Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-03 Thread Maris Nartiss
Taking into account usage patter of a person who knows (a bit) GRASS, I would say that this could be a good solution - access to functionality should be provided based on usage frequency. To make this solution perfect, it would be necessary to add some "black magic" that launches some "configuratio

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-03 Thread Blumentrath, Stefan
o parallel/alternative startups... Cheers Stefan -Original Message- From: grass-dev-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:grass-dev-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Markus Neteler Sent: 3. februar 2015 21:16 To: Markus Metz Cc: Helena Mitasova; Martin Landa; C Michael Barton; GRASS develop

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-03 Thread Markus Neteler
Hi, I have taken liberty to upload #4 in r64447 in order to get something changed for RC2 which is overdue (the image part of the screen should probably be filled with a white background). Markus ___ grass-dev mailing list grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org http

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-03 Thread Anna Petrášová
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:15 PM, Martin Landa wrote: > Hi Vaclav, > > 2015-02-02 20:01 GMT+01:00 Vaclav Petras : > > More improvements for startup window in r64405. > > I tested improvements on Windows, it looks better, thanks. There are > still margins too wide [1], but it's just minor comment. >

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-03 Thread Markus Neteler
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 12:50 PM, Markus Metz wrote: ... > > A prototype for a minimal welcome screen actually exists in Settings > -> GRASS working environment -> Change location and mapset. Could anyone make this accessible at startup time with a flag? Then we could try out how it satisfies the

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-03 Thread Martin Landa
Hi Vaclav, 2015-02-02 20:01 GMT+01:00 Vaclav Petras : > More improvements for startup window in r64405. I tested improvements on Windows, it looks better, thanks. There are still margins too wide [1], but it's just minor comment. Martin [1] http://geo1.fsv.cvut.cz/landa/grass71-1.png -- Marti

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-03 Thread Helmut Kudrnovsky
>** >1) Run GRASS launch script => GUI opens directly > >2) Have entries in the 'File'-Menu to > >- 'Open existing location' >- 'Create new location' >- 'Creat new mapset' >- 'Manage locations and mapsets' (could also replace the two last > entries) > >3) Whe

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-03 Thread Markus Metz
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Moritz Lennert wrote: > On 03/02/15 09:04, Markus Metz wrote: >> >> We can go on forever with this "I prefer this" and "But I prefer >> that". Instead I would propose a poll with GRASS users and let them >> decide. > > > I actually don't think we need to "decide". W

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-03 Thread Nikos Alexandris
On 03.02.2015 09:53, Blumentrath, Stefan wrote: [..] 1) I was just wondering, every module has a manual, the startup-screen does not. What about having a e.g. the “Location and Mapsets” wiki page as a manual behind e.g. a (not too flashy) question-mark-button on the on the welome screen.

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-03 Thread Moritz Lennert
On 03/02/15 09:04, Markus Metz wrote: We can go on forever with this "I prefer this" and "But I prefer that". Instead I would propose a poll with GRASS users and let them decide. I actually don't think we need to "decide". Why not just propose different startup options and users can chose amon

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-03 Thread Moritz Lennert
On 03/02/15 04:26, Yann Chemin wrote: It may sound out of place, but would it be possible to call this dialog anytime during a grass session to manage where you want to work through a known, unified interface? Markus suggested something like this during our discussions at FOSDEM. Here's a summ

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-03 Thread Markus Metz
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 4:56 AM, Vaclav Petras wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Markus Neteler wrote: >> >> > For newcomers/no rc file: how about creating a new GRASS GIS database >> > in $HOME, >> >> +1 >> >> > in there a new location with EPSG:4326 (latlong wgs84), the >> > empty PERMA

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-02 Thread Blumentrath, Stefan
Dear all, Following this relatively long thread one can observe that some arguments and proposals are being repeated, while other aspects receive probably less attention than they deserve. Therefor Anna`s suggestion below seems quite reasonable, in order to e.g. identify differences between sol

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-02 Thread Yann Chemin
It may sound out of place, but would it be possible to call this dialog anytime during a grass session to manage where you want to work through a known, unified interface? On Feb 3, 2015 4:42 AM, "Vaclav Petras" wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 6:34 PM, Michael Barton > wrote: > >> I think tha

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-02 Thread Michael Barton
I think that they are equally as informative and the one on the left takes up less space. Just my opinion. Michael __ C. Michael Barton Director, Center for Social Dynamics & Complexity Professor of Anthropology, School of Human Evolution & Social Change Head, Graduate

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-02 Thread Vaclav Petras
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 4:59 PM, Vaclav Petras wrote: > On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Markus Neteler wrote: > >> On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 9:01 PM, Markus Metz >> wrote: >> > On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 8:01 PM, Vaclav Petras >> wrote: >> >> More improvements for startup window in r64405. >> >> Pleas

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-02 Thread Markus Neteler
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 11:02 PM, Vaclav Petras wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Michael Barton > wrote: >> >> Unfortunately the screenshots are too low resolution for me to read them >> here. So I might miss something that is on the screenshot. > > > It's just about layout, don't worry

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-02 Thread Vaclav Petras
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Michael Barton wrote: > Unfortunately the screenshots are too low resolution for me to read them > here. So I might miss something that is on the screenshot. It's just about layout, don't worry about text. I can of course send full size if somebody wants. ___

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-02 Thread Vaclav Petras
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Markus Neteler wrote: > On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 9:01 PM, Markus Metz > wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 8:01 PM, Vaclav Petras > wrote: > >> More improvements for startup window in r64405. > > Please let's not welcome a (new) user with a warning... looks scary.

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-02 Thread Anna Petrášová
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 3:01 PM, Markus Metz wrote: > On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 8:01 PM, Vaclav Petras > wrote: > > More improvements for startup window in r64405. > > > > Most notably you don't get error message when starting GRASS for the > first > > time without a rc file. After clicking OK, you

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-02 Thread Michael Barton
__ On Feb 2, 2015, at 2:31 PM, Vaclav Petras mailto:wenzesl...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 2:09 PM, Michael Barton mailto:michael.bar...@asu.edu>> wrote: To make this more compact, there is still extraneous information not needed below the location a

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-02 Thread Markus Neteler
(now back from https://fosdem.org/2015/schedule/track/geospatial/ - digging through the emails) On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 9:01 PM, Markus Metz wrote: > On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 8:01 PM, Vaclav Petras wrote: >> More improvements for startup window in r64405. Please let's not welcome a (new) user with

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-02 Thread Vaclav Petras
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 2:09 PM, Michael Barton wrote: > To make this more compact, there is still extraneous information not > needed below the location and mapset windows. I don't think we have a consensus of what is the information needed. Shortest is no info but that's not ideal neither. Per

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-02 Thread Markus Metz
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 8:01 PM, Vaclav Petras wrote: > More improvements for startup window in r64405. > > Most notably you don't get error message when starting GRASS for the first > time without a rc file. After clicking OK, you would get a browse window. > Now you just get a warning text in the

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-02 Thread Michael Barton
To make this more compact, there is still extraneous information not needed below the location and mapset windows. Also, error messages should be in popup error windows, not displayed on the main dialog. Michael __ C. Michael Barton Director, Center for Social Dynamic

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-02 Thread Vaclav Petras
More improvements for startup window in r64405. Most notably you don't get error message when starting GRASS for the first time without a rc file. After clicking OK, you would get a browse window. Now you just get a warning text in the middle of the window and it is up to you to read it and press

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-02-02 Thread Martin Landa
Hi, 2015-01-28 19:59 GMT+01:00 Vaclav Petras : > Done in r64345. btw, on Windows the welcome screen is now somehow bigger, location desc is missing and mapset desc is wrapped too much, see [1]. Martin [1] http://geo1.fsv.cvut.cz/landa/grass71.png -- Martin Landa http://geo.fsv.cvut.cz/gwiki/L

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-30 Thread Nikos Alexandris
Yann Chemin: Continuing the crazy thoughts, You could have FFT/wavelet parameters per column of a raster image hard-coded to create an image on request (that I could do I think). Markus Neteler wrote: ... r.surf.fractal does this... but: About a vector, well a set of polygon arcs pairs ca

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-30 Thread Markus Neteler
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 1:35 PM, Yann Chemin wrote: > Continuing the crazy thoughts, > You could have FFT/wavelet parameters per column of a raster image > hard-coded to create an image on request (that I could do I think). ... r.surf.fractal does this... but: > About a > vector, well a set of p

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-30 Thread Blumentrath, Stefan
- From: grass-dev-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:grass-dev-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Nikos Alexandris Sent: 29. januar 2015 18:13 To: Moritz Lennert Cc: Michael Barton; GRASS developers grass-developers Subject: Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers On 29.

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-30 Thread Michael Barton
This is sort of beginning to sound like what we already have. That is, we have a button on the web site that downloads a demo data set that is already organized in a location and mapset. Michael C. Michael Barton Director, Center for Social Dynamics & Complexity Professor o

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-30 Thread Nikos Alexandris
On 30.01.2015 14:35, Yann Chemin wrote: Continuing the crazy thoughts, You could have FFT/wavelet parameters per column of a raster image hard-coded to create an image on request (that I could do I think). About a vector, well a set of polygon arcs pairs can easily be stored in code and (i su

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-30 Thread Yann Chemin
Continuing the crazy thoughts, You could have FFT/wavelet parameters per column of a raster image hard-coded to create an image on request (that I could do I think). About a vector, well a set of polygon arcs pairs can easily be stored in code and (i suppose) imported on the fly as a vector. On 30

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-30 Thread Nikos Alexandris
Maybe a crazy idea, but... if access to internet isn't an option, maybe the "button" can create a Location and Mapset(s), and let a script create some artificial vector and raster maps? So a user can still play along with unreal data. Nikos ___ gra

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-30 Thread Rainer M Krug
Yann Chemin writes: > +1 for a button, but I am not sure sure a data download is that > necessary... I think a download button would be useful as the demo location should be in the home directory so that the user can play with it. The disadvantage would be that the user has to be online for thi

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-30 Thread Moritz Lennert
On 30/01/15 11:01, Yann Chemin wrote: +1 for a button, but I am not sure sure a data download is that necessary... The button might just be a script creating a (several?) empty Location(s?) in a directory that the user can choose. I think the idea was to have a location with some data already i

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-30 Thread Yann Chemin
+1 for a button, but I am not sure sure a data download is that necessary... The button might just be a script creating a (several?) empty Location(s?) in a directory that the user can choose. On 30 January 2015 at 15:20, Moritz Lennert wrote: > On 29/01/15 17:43, Vaclav Petras wrote: > >> On

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-30 Thread Moritz Lennert
On 29/01/15 17:43, Vaclav Petras wrote: On the MS Windows installer takes care of that by copying demo Location to newly created grassdata dir in Documents and creating the rc file. Is this enough? If not why? And do we want to do something similar for cases when installation is not done by GRASS

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-29 Thread Yann Chemin
+1 Nice ! On 29 January 2015 at 19:15, Vincent Bain wrote: > Here I put the updated banner: > http://grasswiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Identity#Proposals_2 > > attached is the jpg label. > > Le jeudi 29 janvier 2015 à 14:12 +0100, Vincent Bain a écrit : > > Le jeudi 29 janvier 2015 à 18:19 +0530, Yann Ch

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-29 Thread Nikos Alexandris
On 29.01.2015 18:49, Moritz Lennert wrote: ### Mapset "A Mapset contains GIS data. Every Location automatically has one Mapset named PERMANENT that also contains projection information for the Location." Maybe add a little about use of mapsets: "A Mapset is a subdirectory of a location and

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-29 Thread Moritz Lennert
On 29/01/15 16:53, Vaclav Petras wrote: On the topic of descriptions. I left there what I had there the first time because I had no time to revise it yesterday. Location = project was there for a long time already but I'm not saying that it is good. However, there should be some suggestions, how

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-29 Thread Vaclav Petras
On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 6:52 AM, Nikos Alexandris wrote: > Vaclav Petras wrote: > > A "Skip" button can be added next to Start button, once implemented. >>> I think that XY location in /tmp/grassdata would be appropriate. >>> >> > I'm very strongly opposed to this idea. You can be sure that man

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-29 Thread Michael Barton
Thanks Vaclav Michael C. Michael Barton Director, Center for Social Dynamics & Complexity Professor of Anthropology, School of Human Evolution & Social Change Head, Graduate Faculty in Complex Adaptive Systems Science Arizona State University voice: 480-965-6262 (SHESC), 480

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-29 Thread Vaclav Petras
On the topic of descriptions. I left there what I had there the first time because I had no time to revise it yesterday. Location = project was there for a long time already but I'm not saying that it is good. However, there should be some suggestions, how to use GISDBASE, Location and Mapset. Oth

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-29 Thread Michael Barton
Nice! C. Michael Barton Director, Center for Social Dynamics & Complexity Professor of Anthropology, School of Human Evolution & Social Change Head, Graduate Faculty in Complex Adaptive Systems Science Arizona State University voice: 480-965-6262 (SHESC), 480-965-8130/727-97

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-29 Thread Vincent Bain
Here I put the updated banner: http://grasswiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Identity#Proposals_2 attached is the jpg label. Le jeudi 29 janvier 2015 à 14:12 +0100, Vincent Bain a écrit : > Le jeudi 29 janvier 2015 à 18:19 +0530, Yann Chemin a écrit : > > I wonder if Vincent could make it with "GRASS GIS" in F

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-29 Thread Vincent Bain
Le jeudi 29 janvier 2015 à 18:19 +0530, Yann Chemin a écrit : > I wonder if Vincent could make it with "GRASS GIS" in Fira Sans as in > the splash screen? Yes, in a while. ___ grass-dev mailing list grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailm

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-29 Thread Yann Chemin
Could we have a proposed new banner in trunk too. It really helps having it on your computer... Maybe the smallest one makes sense for all screen sizes http://grasswiki.osgeo.org/wiki/File:GRASSGIS_welcome_banner3.jpg I wonder if Vincent could make it with "GRASS GIS" in Fira Sans as in the splas

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-29 Thread Markus Neteler
On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Michael Barton wrote: > Is there a place to see a screen shot of what is proposed? I suggested some > wording changes awhile back but I don't know if they are incorporated or not. Attached the draft version from trunk (updated 2hs ago). Obviously yet with the old

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-29 Thread Michael Barton
Is there a place to see a screen shot of what is proposed? I suggested some wording changes awhile back but I don't know if they are incorporated or not. Michael C. Michael Barton Director, Center for Social Dynamics & Complexity Professor of Anthropology, School of Human Ev

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-29 Thread Nikos Alexandris
Vaclav Petras wrote: To satisfy everybody, I suggest to provide a buttons with something like "Take me to LL", "Take me to default location" and "Take me to XY". What do you think about that? But the real improvement should be the messages which would g

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-29 Thread Markus Neteler
On Jan 29, 2015 9:47 AM, "Moritz Lennert" wrote: > > On 28/01/15 19:59, Vaclav Petras wrote: ... > On 22/01/15 05:29, Vaclav Petras wrote:> A "Skip" button can be added next to Start button, once implemented. I > > > think that XY location in /tmp/grassdata would be appropriate. > > I'm very stron

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-29 Thread Moritz Lennert
On 28/01/15 19:59, Vaclav Petras wrote: On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 11:29 PM, Vaclav Petras mailto:wenzesl...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 5:15 PM, Vaclav Petras mailto:wenzesl...@gmail.com>> wrote: To satisfy everybody, I suggest to provide a buttons with somet

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-28 Thread Markus Neteler
On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 9:29 PM, Martin Landa wrote: > Hi, > > 2015-01-28 19:59 GMT+01:00 Vaclav Petras : > >> Done in r64345. Good, now we have a better discussion base. >> Now the change of minimal height is needed to actually make it work on small >> screens. > > thanks. I would vote to make

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-28 Thread Martin Landa
Hi, 2015-01-28 19:59 GMT+01:00 Vaclav Petras : > Done in r64345. > > Now the change of minimal height is needed to actually make it work on small > screens. thanks. I would vote to make description text gray. Martin -- Martin Landa http://geo.fsv.cvut.cz/gwiki/Landa http://gismentors.eu/mentor

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-28 Thread Vaclav Petras
On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 11:29 PM, Vaclav Petras wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 5:15 PM, Vaclav Petras > wrote: > >> To satisfy everybody, I suggest to provide a buttons with something like >> "Take me to LL", "Take me to default location" and "Take me to XY". What do >> you think about that?

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-24 Thread Maris Nartiss
2015-01-23 21:54 GMT+02:00 Markus Metz : > On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Margherita Di Leo wrote: > > No, I am talking about a minimal welcome screen to replace the current > welcome screen. This screen appears (current behaviour) before GRASS > GIS is started. > > Markus M > If I got you right

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-23 Thread Markus Metz
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Margherita Di Leo wrote: > Hi, > > On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 2:10 PM, Markus Metz > wrote: >> >> >> That is why I suggested a minimal (minimal information content) >> welcome screen with one OK button and one change button. The OK button >> should be prominently pla

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-23 Thread Nikos Alexandris
Yann Chemin wrote: > hmm that would be cool ! > running r(v).in.* without GISDBASE or Location or mapset could trigger a > wizard to set them up... Markus Metz: This is the current location wizard. The original topic was import and on-the-fly reprojection without the need to create a ne

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-23 Thread Yann Chemin
On 23 January 2015 at 22:18, Anna Petrášová wrote: > > > On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Margherita Di Leo > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 2:10 PM, Markus Metz < >> markus.metz.gisw...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> That is why I suggested a minimal (minimal information content)

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-23 Thread Anna Petrášová
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Margherita Di Leo wrote: > Hi, > > On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 2:10 PM, Markus Metz < > markus.metz.gisw...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> That is why I suggested a minimal (minimal information content) >> welcome screen with one OK button and one change button. The OK bu

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-23 Thread Margherita Di Leo
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Markus Metz wrote: > On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Yann Chemin wrote: > > > > > >> > > hmm that would be cool ! > > running r(v).in.* without GISDBASE or Location or mapset could trigger a > > wizard to set them up... > > This is the current location wizard. >

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-23 Thread Margherita Di Leo
Hi, On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 2:10 PM, Markus Metz wrote: > > That is why I suggested a minimal (minimal information content) > welcome screen with one OK button and one change button. The OK button > should be prominently placed, the user must immediately see that all > is needed to get started i

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-23 Thread Markus Metz
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Yann Chemin wrote: > > > On 23 January 2015 at 16:49, Rainer M Krug wrote: >> >> Yann Chemin writes: >> >> > On 23 January 2015 at 15:46, Martin Landa >> > wrote: >> > >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> 2015-01-23 9:20 GMT+01:00 Markus Neteler : >> >> > my motivation to disc

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-23 Thread Markus Metz
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 11:07 AM, Markus Neteler wrote: > > On Jan 23, 2015 9:26 AM, "Paulo van Breugel" wrote: >> On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 9:20 AM, Markus Neteler wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> my motivation to discuss the current welcome screen is that too many >>> potential new users try to launch

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-23 Thread Yann Chemin
On 23 January 2015 at 16:49, Rainer M Krug wrote: > Yann Chemin writes: > > > On 23 January 2015 at 15:46, Martin Landa > wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> 2015-01-23 9:20 GMT+01:00 Markus Neteler : > >> > my motivation to discuss the current welcome screen is that too many > >> > potential new use

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-23 Thread Rainer M Krug
Yann Chemin writes: > On 23 January 2015 at 15:46, Martin Landa wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> 2015-01-23 9:20 GMT+01:00 Markus Neteler : >> > my motivation to discuss the current welcome screen is that too many >> > potential new users try to launch GRASS, do not get past that screen and >> > walk away

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-23 Thread Yann Chemin
On 23 January 2015 at 15:46, Martin Landa wrote: > Hi, > > 2015-01-23 9:20 GMT+01:00 Markus Neteler : > > my motivation to discuss the current welcome screen is that too many > > potential new users try to launch GRASS, do not get past that screen and > > walk away ("too difficult"). Yes, and the

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-23 Thread Paulo van Breugel
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 11:16 AM, Martin Landa wrote: > Hi, > > 2015-01-23 9:20 GMT+01:00 Markus Neteler : > > my motivation to discuss the current welcome screen is that too many > > potential new users try to launch GRASS, do not get past that screen and > > walk away ("too difficult"). Yes, an

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-23 Thread Martin Landa
Hi, 2015-01-23 9:20 GMT+01:00 Markus Neteler : > my motivation to discuss the current welcome screen is that too many > potential new users try to launch GRASS, do not get past that screen and > walk away ("too difficult"). Yes, and they will likely not read the manual > but just take another GIS.

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-23 Thread Markus Neteler
On Jan 23, 2015 9:26 AM, "Paulo van Breugel" wrote: > On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 9:20 AM, Markus Neteler wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> my motivation to discuss the current welcome screen is that too many potential new users try to launch GRASS, do not get past that screen and walk away ("too difficult"). Y

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-23 Thread Paulo van Breugel
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 9:20 AM, Markus Neteler wrote: > Hi, > > my motivation to discuss the current welcome screen is that too many > potential new users try to launch GRASS, do not get past that screen and > walk away ("too difficult"). Yes, and they will likely not read the manual > but just

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-23 Thread Paulo van Breugel
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 5:53 AM, Michael Barton wrote: > Hi Vaclav, > > To be clear, I agree with you that GRASS should not start with a wizard > and had did not intend anyone to think that. > > The ‘step 1, step 2, step 3’ was simply to put this as text on the > startup dialog, to help users

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-23 Thread Markus Neteler
Hi, my motivation to discuss the current welcome screen is that too many potential new users try to launch GRASS, do not get past that screen and walk away ("too difficult"). Yes, and they will likely not read the manual but just take another GIS. This is a multiple times reported fact. Let's sol

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-23 Thread Luca Delucchi
On 23 January 2015 at 08:34, Maris Nartiss wrote: > > Please, let's not try to compete with QGIS in ease of use, as we will > lose due to lack of manpower and different goals (quality and power > over ease of use). Spatial data is hard. High quality analysis is > hard. Let's keep GRASS profession

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Paulo van Breugel
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 8:34 AM, Maris Nartiss wrote: > This thread has exposed a problem with GRASS GIS - lack of clear > vision (target auditory, "market niche"). > Perhaps rather different visions... comes with being open source with an active and open community > > I agree with Anna - start

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Paulo van Breugel
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 8:34 AM, Maris Nartiss wrote: > This thread has exposed a problem with GRASS GIS - lack of clear > vision (target auditory, "market niche"). > Perhaps rather different visions... comes with being open source with an active and open community > > I agree with Anna - start

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Maris Nartiss
This thread has exposed a problem with GRASS GIS - lack of clear vision (target auditory, "market niche"). I agree with Anna - startup screen is a problem only on the first time and it goes away with training. We must keep in mind that GRASS is more often launched not for the first time than for t

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Michael Barton
On Jan 22, 2015, at 11:11 PM, Yann Chemin mailto:yche...@gmail.com>> wrote: Hi MIchael, Are we going to yet another branch from the original topic :-) Just clarifying what I said earlier on this particular topic. Why making the start of GRASS easier is not easy. I believe the fundamental c

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Yann Chemin
Hi MIchael, Are we going to yet another branch from the original topic :-) I believe the fundamental change you speak about is worth discussing for GRASS 8. I also believe that the on-the-fly reprojection on import is a feature we all agree is (very) needed (GRASS 8). Finally, I believe that Vac

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Michael Barton
Hi Vaclav, To be clear, I agree with you that GRASS should not start with a wizard and had did not intend anyone to think that. The ‘step 1, step 2, step 3’ was simply to put this as text on the startup dialog, to help users know which step to do in what order. The more radical suggestion that

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Vaclav Petras
On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 12:16 PM, Michael Barton wrote: > For this release, we need to focus on just tweaking the current startup > screen and doing better graphics for the splash. The other topic is a much > bigger issue. > Not everybody considers my suggestion as useful-enough change and there

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Blumentrath, Stefan
I fully support Anna here. Again, in addition -the startup screen - as it is now - gives a good overview over existing data in the GRASSS DB, that is valuable information for me -probably hiding the path to the GISDBASE (once that is defined in the user profile) behind a button

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Michael Barton
For this release, we need to focus on just tweaking the current startup screen and doing better graphics for the splash. The other topic is a much bigger issue. The reasons that GRASS just can’t open and then load a file like a word processor are multiple and related. Foremost is the underlying

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Martin Landa
Hi, 2015-01-22 16:54 GMT+01:00 Anna Petrášová : >> I would say that it's topic for 7.1 or partially for 7.0.1. Release >> branch is currently in hard freeze, so only bug fixes should go there. > > > Right. But we still should decide on the graphics (different thread). yes, it make sense to me. M

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Anna Petrášová
On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 10:46 AM, Martin Landa wrote: > Hi, > > 2015-01-22 16:27 GMT+01:00 Anna Petrášová : > > Any opinion on what can we do for this release? > > I would say that it's topic for 7.1 or partially for 7.0.1. Release > branch is currently in hard freeze, so only bug fixes should go

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Martin Landa
Hi, 2015-01-22 16:27 GMT+01:00 Anna Petrášová : > Any opinion on what can we do for this release? I would say that it's topic for 7.1 or partially for 7.0.1. Release branch is currently in hard freeze, so only bug fixes should go there. Martin -- Martin Landa http://geo.fsv.cvut.cz/gwiki/Landa

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Yann Chemin
"If we would find a way to automatically reproject data during import, that would save a lot of work and explanation and it's useful not just for beginners." Not only beginners, I work -always- with mixed data, I spend an enourmous amount of time juggling with creating adhoc temporary locations o

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Anna Petrášová
On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 9:41 AM, Martin Landa wrote: > Hi, > > 2015-01-22 9:48 GMT+01:00 Markus Metz : > > A suggestion for a compromise: > > > > Have a minimal welcome screen that says something like > > "Starting GRASS GIS in location X, mapset Y" > > nothing else, no list of all the available

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Yann Chemin
+1 even better if we can test this on svn any time soon, it is often more practical to try... On 22 January 2015 at 20:11, Martin Landa wrote: > Hi, > > 2015-01-22 9:48 GMT+01:00 Markus Metz : > > A suggestion for a compromise: > > > > Have a minimal welcome screen that says something like > > "

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Martin Landa
Hi, 2015-01-22 9:48 GMT+01:00 Markus Metz : > A suggestion for a compromise: > > Have a minimal welcome screen that says something like > "Starting GRASS GIS in location X, mapset Y" > nothing else, no list of all the available locations and mapsets > > Only two buttons: OK, Change > Make OK the d

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Vaclav Petras
On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 3:53 AM, Nikos Alexandris wrote: > On 22.01.2015 10:32, Helmut Kudrnovsky wrote: > > > > I find the fact that GRASS does not provide a default >>> > > projection system, but forces the user to think about projection >>> from the >>> > > start, one of its strengths, both f

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Nikos Alexandris
On 22.01.2015 10:41, Rainer M Krug wrote: Nikos Alexandris writes: On 22.01.2015 09:51, Yann Chemin wrote: http://docs.qgis.org/2.2/ko/docs/training_manual/grass/grass_setup.html http://docs.qgis.org/2.2/ko/_images/grass_folder.png Spanish text https://ecoslackware.wordpress.com/tag/grass-

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Markus Neteler
On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 10:45 AM, Margherita Di Leo wrote: ... > I understand that for some users GRASS looks strange at first sight, because > I'm aware that nearly nobody reads the manual *before* trying to start a new > software. Yes, confirmed... > Because humans work like this, at first the

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Margherita Di Leo
Hi, On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Markus Neteler wrote: > >> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 8:16 PM, Moritz Lennert >> wrote: >> > On 21/01/15 19:35, Markus Neteler wrote: >> >> In my opinion we should not have the location selection dialog at all. >> >> Revolution! >> >> >> >> We should start GRASS

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Markus Metz
On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 10:01 AM, Rainer M Krug wrote: > Markus Metz writes: > >> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 11:15 PM, Vaclav Petras wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Markus Neteler wrote: On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 8:16 PM, Moritz Lennert wrote: > On 21/01/15 1

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Paulo van Breugel
On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Markus Metz wrote: > On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 11:15 PM, Vaclav Petras > wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Markus Neteler > wrote: > >> > >> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 8:16 PM, Moritz Lennert > >> wrote: > >> > On 21/01/15 19:35, Markus Neteler wro

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Rainer M Krug
Markus Metz writes: > On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 11:15 PM, Vaclav Petras wrote: >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Markus Neteler wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 8:16 PM, Moritz Lennert >>> wrote: >>> > On 21/01/15 19:35, Markus Neteler wrote: >>> >> In my opinion we should not have

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Nikos Alexandris
Markus Metz wrote: A suggestion for a compromise: Have a minimal welcome screen that says something like "Starting GRASS GIS in location X, mapset Y" nothing else, no list of all the available locations and mapsets Only two buttons: OK, Change Make OK the default, Change will bring up the curr

Re: [GRASS-dev] Making start of GRASS GIS easier for newcomers

2015-01-22 Thread Nikos Alexandris
On 22.01.2015 10:32, Helmut Kudrnovsky wrote: > > I find the fact that GRASS does not provide a default > > projection system, but forces the user to think about projection from the > > start, one of its strengths, both for work and for teaching. >> On of it strenghts, yes. But I have bee

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