Once again, I am passing along the the link for one of the obscure but
potentially interesting books sold by Michael Shamansky:
http://www.artbooks.com/wc.dll?AB~emailReview~itemno=108051custno=12840
Janet
Too bad Walmart won't ship their books out of the USA. They advertise great
prices on some books.
Brin Kendall
Melody Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
HI,
There is a small publication from (of all places) Dover Press, the people who
make all those small craft-y books.
I bought one
lots of fun embroidery discussion that I missed because I'm not online
over the weekend snipped for length, sigh :):
Monochrome embroidery is actually considerably older than the
1400s...
Sue, any insights into embroidery meant to be seen from both sides, as
on
cuffs or collars? That's the real
You have a cuff pattern is, right? So you trace it
onto the fabric, then cut around it, big enough to let
you work it in your embrodery frame or hoop. When
you're finished, cut out only the pattern shape. (This
saves you from cutting up the actual work.)
MaggiRos
--- Lynn Roth [EMAIL
That would be another string altogether. Let's try embroidered cuff.
On 5/6/07, Lynn Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have a question regarding Blackwork. How do you embroider on a cuff? If you
make a chemise and want to do blackwork on a cuff whats the best wa y to do it?
Lynn
--
Aspasia
In blackwork, double running is the primary stitch, but it's not the
stitch which creates the doublesidedness. It's the actual pattern--i.e.,
how it is executed.
Arlys
On Sat, 5 May 2007 23:02:40 -0500 (CDT) Robin Netherton
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Sat, 5 May 2007, Susan B. Farmer wrote:
There is a form called Assisi work, uses the same stitches as
blackwork, but
was often worked in red, and I believe there's extant examples of
that from
the 12th cen. (1100's). I'll see what I can dig up.
Melusine
It's my understanding that the actual pattern on Assisi (voided) work
: Saturday, May 05, 2007 7:56 PM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery
And here I thought this list would be full of people who who were
obsessive about embroidery history who would have this stuff at their
fingertips. I have no clue what sources are standard on stitch types,
existing artifacts
: Saturday, May 05, 2007 6:36 PM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery
Although with some stitches you can't help making the back nearly as neat
as
the front (classics indeed being blackwork and tent stitch, etc), I'm not
aware of any medieval embroidery being made this way on purpose
of
reversability in the cuffs and ruffles (applied or integral), than in the
collars.
--Sue
- Original Message -
From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 6:47 PM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery
On Sat, 5 May 2007
05, 2007 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery
There is a form called Assisi work, uses the same stitches as
blackwork, but
was often worked in red, and I believe there's extant examples
of
that from
the 12th cen. (1100's). I'll see what I can dig up
I've sent my contact the images already cited as proof-of-concept for
Tudor period, and the information posted here that there were stitches
that could be reversible. That's a good start, but for publication
purposes she needs a published source on the stitch types for that period
(as seen in
So, questions:
1. Is my memory correct -- is this indeed a characteristic of
blackwork?
Or any other kind of historic embroidery style?
Some, but not all, blackwork is reversible, and if it is, it is perfectly
suited to cuffs and hankies and napkins where both sides will be seen.
That
Blackwork is my thing. I taught it back at the Known World Art/Sci
Symposium in Orlando where you taught the Gothic fitted gown a few
years ago. It is more correctly known as monochrome embroidery and
was mentioned by Chaucer in Canterbury Tales. Chaucer mentions her
collar with blackwork inside
On Sun, 6 May 2007, Sue Clemenger wrote:
Monochrome embroidery is actually considerably older than the 1400s...
Sue, any insights into embroidery meant to be seen from both sides, as on
cuffs or collars? That's the real issue here -- how early that concept
might apply.
--Robin
PM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery
On Sat, 5 May 2007, Susan B. Farmer wrote:
There are lots of examples from this period both in English and
Italian art where the collar/cuffs are embroidered with the
implication that both sides will be seen -- more can be forthcoming if
you
On Sun, 06 May 2007 01:11:52 +0200, Robin Netherton
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is one of those times. I'm talking with another researcher who's
working with a text reference to embroidery. One possible interpretation
of the reference would be that it describes embroidery that appears on
both
On May 5, 2007, at 4:11 PM, Robin Netherton wrote:
1. Is my memory correct -- is this indeed a characteristic of
blackwork?
Or any other kind of historic embroidery style?
Hi, Robin! g
Some, but NOT all, historical blackwork is reversible (same on both
sides). The idea that ALL
Here's one piece I know is reversible. Queen Jane's
cuffs. Unfortunately somewhat later than 1400.
http://www.elizabethancostume.net/blackwork/seymour.html
http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/jane-notes.html
MaggiRos
--- Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, 5 May 2007, otsisto
On Sun, 6 May 2007, Bonnie Booker wrote:
Blackwork is my thing. I taught it back at the Known World Art/Sci
Symposium in Orlando where you taught the Gothic fitted gown a few
years ago. It is more correctly known as monochrome embroidery and
was mentioned by Chaucer in Canterbury Tales.
I have a question regarding Blackwork. How do you embroider on a cuff? If you
make a chemise and want to do blackwork on a cuff whats the best wa y to do it?
Lynn
Bonnie Booker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Blackwork is my thing. I taught it
back at the Known World Art/Sci
Symposium in Orlando
I am not an embroiderer, and my knowledge of medeival embroidery is
skeletal -- enough to recognize situations in which it occurs, and to know
when to go to others with a question.
This is one of those times. I'm talking with another researcher who's
working with a text reference to embroidery.
I can't help you but I will be interested in what you find. My friend who
is quite good at embroidery always makes fun of mine because it looks
horrible on the back (okay, it doesn't always look great on the front side
either.) She claims it should look almost as good on the back as one the
Quoting Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
This is one of those times. I'm talking with another researcher who's
working with a text reference to embroidery. One possible interpretation
of the reference would be that it describes embroidery that appears on
both the inside and outside of the
To my knowledge -- and blackwork isn't my thing -- blackwork is
later than 1400. There are more knowledgeable folks on this list than
I in that respect.
susan
There is a form called Assisi work, uses the same stitches as blackwork, but
was often worked in red, and I believe there's extant
Though not an expert, (note:I'm having a brain fog) I believe that there are
at least 4 embroidery stitches where the embroidery appears on the front and
back. blackwork/Spanish work is one. Montenegrin crosstitch. Assisi(?) and a
fourth that escapes me. (just finished mowing the lawn in humid
Assisi work is also called voided work and is not necessarily done in red
thread. Blackwork is not necessarily done with black thread. (are we
confused yet?) :)
-Original Message-
To my knowledge -- and blackwork isn't my thing -- blackwork is
later than 1400. There are more
On Sat, 5 May 2007, otsisto wrote:
Though not an expert, (note:I'm having a brain fog) I believe that
there are at least 4 embroidery stitches where the embroidery appears
on the front and back. blackwork/Spanish work is one. Montenegrin
crosstitch. Assisi(?) and a fourth that escapes me.
At 06:52 PM 5/5/2007, you wrote:
To my knowledge -- and blackwork isn't my thing -- blackwork is
later than 1400. There are more knowledgeable folks on this list than
I in that respect.
susan
There is a form called Assisi work, uses the same stitches as
blackwork, but was often worked in
At 07:10 PM 5/5/2007, you wrote:
If it helps, the description we're working with says the decoration is in
black silk around the collar of a chemise. Presumably the chemise would be
linen but it's not specified. All my friend wants to show that is that the
nature of the description points to
Although with some stitches you can't help making the back nearly as neat as
the front (classics indeed being blackwork and tent stitch, etc), I'm not
aware of any medieval embroidery being made this way on purpose.
And whether styles like blackwork or asissi work, or several others,
On Sat, 5 May 2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Its appearance at cuffs and collars doesn't have any real relevance to
the state of the back, as embroidery was done prior to the making up
of the garment (usually), so that the back of the work would be
unlikely to be seen.
That would certainly
On Sat, 5 May 2007, Robin Netherton wrote:
That would certainly be the case for, say, a doublet, but for the cuffs or
collars of linen chemises, which are not lined, why would the embroidery
be done in advance, or assumed not to be seen? Chemises in 16th century
paintings are often shown
Quoting Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Sat, 5 May 2007, Robin Netherton wrote:
That would certainly be the case for, say, a doublet, but for the cuffs or
collars of linen chemises, which are not lined, why would the embroidery
be done in advance, or assumed not to be seen? Chemises in
Perhaps this might work for an example though it is mid 1500s
http://www.tudor-portraits.com/LadyDacre.jpg
-Original Message-
Like this:
http://www.metmuseum.org/Works_of_Art/viewOne.asp?dep=11viewmode=1item=49.
7.32
About 135 years later than the reference I'm tracking, but shows a
Have you read this woman's article?
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/medievalneedle/assisi.htm
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On Sat, 5 May 2007, otsisto wrote:
Perhaps this might work for an example though it is mid 1500s
http://www.tudor-portraits.com/LadyDacre.jpg
Yes! Clearly reversible and meant to be seen as such. Proves the
principle, just not the period yet...
And here I thought this list would be full of
On Sat, 5 May 2007, Susan B. Farmer wrote:
NOw that I can help with. Here's a larger image that I scanned out of
Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked
http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/english_FairGeraldine-qewuFig239.jpg
or
http://tinyurl.com/2qtsgn
Aha. I have the book,
On Sat, 5 May 2007, otsisto wrote:
Have you read this woman's article?
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/medievalneedle/assisi.htm
No, and I haven't done a Web search, either. Web articles won't be citable
for my friend's purposes (an academic paper). I was really hoping that
someone here who is
Quoting Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Sat, 5 May 2007, Susan B. Farmer wrote:
NOw that I can help with. Here's a larger image that I scanned out of
Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked
http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/english_FairGeraldine-qewuFig239.jpg
or
On Sat, 5 May 2007, Susan B. Farmer wrote:
There are lots of examples from this period both in English and
Italian art where the collar/cuffs are embroidered with the
implication that both sides will be seen -- more can be forthcoming if
you need additional examples. I don't know what the
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