Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi! What would happen if we give the namespace implementation a chance to mature is that it can be delivered as a fully-fledged language element rather than a partially-fledged and potentially flawed one. What do you mean by "chance to mature"? Only chance for it to mature is people actually

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

2008/10/15 Diego Feitosa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > Or even > > use my::cool::namespace#GregsNamespaceElement Because # is a comment, other solutions for unused operators is a better choice IF the double colon operator has to be changed in namespaces. > > I couldn't understand why Greg's proposa

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 3:49 PM, Guilherme Blanco <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > If all issues are evolved to reusing same operator, :: ... > > Why is it so complicated to change the separator and get everything > supported? > Is that too hard? > > +3 for Liz option #3. Long live :::! > > []s, > >

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

If all issues are evolved to reusing same operator, :: ... Why is it so complicated to change the separator and get everything supported? Is that too hard? +3 for Liz option #3. Long live :::! []s, On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 4:41 PM, Ryan Panning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Elizabeth M Smith wrot

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Elizabeth M Smith wrote: This can be solved in three ways. 1. Greg's "leaf" solution foo::bar->baz(); - namespace foo::bar, function baz foo->bar::baz(); - namespace foo, static method bar::baz Personally I don't like this, get confusing even if we pick some weird operator like :> 2. Do

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi! My thoughts exactly. I realize it's a bold move, but it's a much better alternative than the fuzz about an implementation that doesn't work, or is incomplete, or needs to be broken in the future to add new stuff. Of course, if we have no implementation this means it is complete, not brok

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi! It seems that we're not quite 100% how we want to do things. Reading the "Namespaces with functions/constants" part of Stas' RFC makes me cringe... just changing the behavior of -> and :: to just make things work is a cludge, and a bad one at that. The other part, "Namespaces I think th

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Stanislav Malyshev wrote: > Hi! > >> This can be solved in three ways. > > Somehow you did not mention my idea of using foo::bar->baz() for method > call. Was it because you don't like it? If so, why? Probably because I missed it in the noise - only it would still lead to ambiguity issues if you

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi! This can be solved in three ways. Somehow you did not mention my idea of using foo::bar->baz() for method call. Was it because you don't like it? If so, why? -- Stanislav Malyshev, Zend Software Architect [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.zend.com/ (408)253-8829 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi. Sorry, I just have to make some points now. Call it "venting for a cause", if you think I overreact. But be sure that the consequences I lay out below for TYPO3v5 and FLOW3 are very real. Vesselin Kenashkov wrote: I see the point and objections against "quick and dirty", but on the other

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi Elizabeth, This can be solved in three ways. 1. Greg's "leaf" solution foo::bar->baz(); - namespace foo::bar, function baz foo->bar::baz(); - namespace foo, static method bar::baz Personally I don't like this, get confusing even if we pick some weird operator like :> 2. Don't allow fun

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi. Stanislav Malyshev wrote: This is what I've be fearing. First slated for 5.0. Then 5.3. Now 6.0. It appears there's consensus to rip it out which, in my prior post, I was all for if people felt it meant getting it right. If 5.3 is not going to have namespaces, we will remove it's use f

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi. Steph Fox wrote: Surely everyone can see the very public ongoing discussions on internals@ over the course of this and last year? Sure. No? There's a very big difference between 'testing' and 'preparing to migrate a codebase'. Ok, but the broad testing needs a broad scope. We need more

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi. Steph Fox wrote: Not trying to undo it, just trying to prevent a horrible mistake being made under pressure. What happened to "release when it is ready"? Who puts up that pressure? And why is there more pressure for 5.3 to be released than to release things that people have been hoping a

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

> Thats awesome. > By the way, what is "it"? > I haven't had the chance of following the hundreds of namespaces > threads with thousands of replies. All I have gather so far is a > massive amount of FUD. > > Could someone summarize what you are trying to convince Greg to agree > on? I would greatl

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Am 15.10.2008 um 09:04 schrieb Derick Rethans: As we're getting really close to 5.3, I would suggest to remove namespaces from this release as we're simply not done with even agreeing on how things should work. PHP 5.3 has many other cool things, and leaving namespaces for PHP 6 means we're a

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 00:30, Andi Gutmans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> -Original Message- >> From: Lukas Kahwe Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 2:15 PM >> To: Steph Fox >> Cc: Stas Malyshev; PHP internals >> Su

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Lukas Kahwe Smith wrote: On 15.10.2008, at 11:35, Ron Rademaker wrote: Lester Caine wrote: What would be the advantage of wrapping legacy functions in a namespace over wrapping them into a class as static functions? THAT is probably why I am asking the question? And may well be key to my

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

On 15.10.2008, at 11:35, Ron Rademaker wrote: Lester Caine wrote: What would be the advantage of wrapping legacy functions in a namespace over wrapping them into a class as static functions? THAT is probably why I am asking the question? And may well be key to my understanding why conve

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

On Wednesday 15 October 2008 11:16:09 Lester Caine wrote: > THAT is probably why I am asking the question? And may well be key to my > understanding why converting non OO code into OO code in PHP is so > problematic. When I was coding in CC++ more heavily libraries did not need > to be objects and

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Lester Caine wrote: What would be the advantage of wrapping legacy functions in a namespace over wrapping them into a class as static functions? THAT is probably why I am asking the question? And may well be key to my understanding why converting non OO code into OO code in PHP is so proble

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Ron Rademaker wrote: Lester Caine wrote: Derick Rethans wrote: On Fri, 10 Oct 2008, Lukas Kahwe Smith wrote: At this point I guess we have the choice between: 1) rip them out 2) status quo 3) Stas proposal 4) Dmitrys proposal Again I hope that Stas/Dmitry will give us an insight about their

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

On 15 Oct 2008, at 09:04, Derick Rethans wrote: However, a third one might be to use a syntax separator that we've not seen at all yet (I'd say ':::'). FWIW, this is my +0.5 (with +1 being dropping). I'm absolutely against reusing a selector for this. -- Geoffrey Sneddon

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Derick Rethans wrote: On Fri, 10 Oct 2008, Lukas Kahwe Smith wrote: At this point I guess we have the choice between: 1) rip them out 2) status quo 3) Stas proposal 4) Dmitrys proposal Again I hope that Stas/Dmitry will give us an insight about their proposals, though Stas proposal might or m

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008, Lukas Kahwe Smith wrote: > At this point I guess we have the choice between: > > 1) rip them out > 2) status quo > 3) Stas proposal > 4) Dmitrys proposal > > Again I hope that Stas/Dmitry will give us an insight about their proposals, > though Stas proposal might or might no

RE: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Le mardi 14 octobre 2008 à 15:30 -0700, Andi Gutmans a écrit : > > err .. you misunderstood me .. Dmitry wasnt happy with his approach .. > > last I heard Greg also stopped exploring his alternative approaches. > > so dont hold you breath. > > As I said, I talked to Dmitry today and he was OK with

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Andi Gutmans schreef: >> -Original Message- >> From: Lukas Kahwe Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 2:15 PM >> To: Steph Fox >> Cc: Stas Malyshev; PHP internals >> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3 >> >

RE: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

> -Original Message- > From: Lukas Kahwe Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 2:15 PM > To: Steph Fox > Cc: Stas Malyshev; PHP internals > Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3 > > err .. you misunderstood me .. Dmitry wasnt

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 12:26 AM, Stanislav Malyshev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi! > > Surely everyone can see the very public ongoing discussions on [EMAIL > PROTECTED] the course of this and last year? >> > > Surely everyone in PHP world reads internals@ and can follow all the > twists and

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Stanislav Malyshev wrote: Hi! Surely everyone can see the very public ongoing discussions on internals@ over the course of this and last year? Surely everyone in PHP world reads internals@ and can follow all the twists and turns of all the discussion. You must be kidding. most of the fre

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi! Surely everyone can see the very public ongoing discussions on internals@ over the course of this and last year? Surely everyone in PHP world reads internals@ and can follow all the twists and turns of all the discussion. You must be kidding. And of course those same people don't mind a

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

On 14.10.2008, at 23:15, Steph Fox wrote: anyways, given the current state most people voted to remove namespaces from PHP 5.3. i assume that all people that casted these votes were (and still are) confident that they actually know what they voted on. maybe some of the people involved i

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

anyways, given the current state most people voted to remove namespaces from PHP 5.3. i assume that all people that casted these votes were (and still are) confident that they actually know what they voted on. maybe some of the people involved in finding the current proposals will try to do

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi Josh, I'd like to point out that those people started working with namespaces *before* the idea of dropping them (or postponing them to PHP 6) appeared on the list. I doubt those people would have done the same if they had been told that namespaces may very well not be available until PHP 6.

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

On 14.10.2008, at 22:55, Stanislav Malyshev wrote: Hi! Only 8 hours ago, one Jean-Phillipe Serafin wrote: "Many people have starting working on top level application using namespaces, so there will a very bad buzz over the php community if namespaces are ripped out..." and there were fur

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Stas... And people believed us and took the risk. Which you just said they wouldn't do. And now you propose to teach them the lesson that trusting PHP core developers that they actually deliver is a bad idea. It seems a sounder policy than teaching them they can't trust that what is actua

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

2008/10/14 Steph Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Only 8 hours ago, one Jean-Phillipe Serafin wrote: "Many people have > starting working on top level application using namespaces, so there will a > very bad buzz over the php community if namespaces are ripped out..." and > there were further objection

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi! Only 8 hours ago, one Jean-Phillipe Serafin wrote: "Many people have starting working on top level application using namespaces, so there will a very bad buzz over the php community if namespaces are ripped out..." and there were further objections on the grounds that namespace support ha

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Steph Fox wrote: I'd love to see the public reaction if we get it badly wrong. I bet that lasts much, much longer than the five minute huff over withdrawal. +10 to that there are no doubt loads of other fixes, upgrades and necessaries which people are waiting for from the release of 5.3 - the

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

On 14.10.2008, at 21:20, Lukas Kahwe Smith wrote: On 14.10.2008, at 21:01, Steph Fox wrote: We are in alpha indeed, and still looking at proposals, and still without consensus. The last thing I'd want is to see namespace support pushed under the carpet, but I'd rather see it at this stage

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi Andi, I don't think postponing this to another big release is going to do anyone any good. You will not see magical revelations because it's postponed by another year. No, but we might see a broader agreement, and that would give more of a basis for user confidence in moving to namespace

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Namespaces are for big projects. Staring big project using namespaces when it's not even clear they'll be in 5.3 is an insane risk, nobody would do it. Only 8 hours ago, one Jean-Phillipe Serafin wrote: "Many people have starting working on top level application using namespaces, so there will

RE: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

I think the three folks understand the sense of urgency to figure this out. They've done a lot of hard work over the past few months to get to this point. I think we're at the last 10 FT now and hopefully within 2-3 days they can come to an agreement. As I mentioned Dmitry is already OK with the

RE: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

I don't think postponing this to another big release is going to do anyone any good. You will not see magical revelations because it's postponed by another year. Greg, Stas, Dmitry all three have deep understanding of the issues. In fact, I think we are closer to agreeing on a solution than it

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi! Users. And I think Lukas' approach is good - use alpha as a testing ground. Namespaces are for big projects. Staring big project using namespaces when it's not even clear they'll be in 5.3 is an insane risk, nobody would do it. -- Stanislav Malyshev, Zend Software Architect [EMAIL PROTE

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

I recommend you and your fellow programmers read the discussion again. It's nost just about syntax. On 14.10.2008, at 21:53, Arvids Godjuks wrote: People, why you just don't change the namespace separator to something except :: and sole all the problems one and for all? God damn, use :> i

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Broad-scale testing with the ability to alter the implementation should problems become apparent. What you are talking about? Who'll be doing this broad-scale testing, when? Users. And I think Lukas' approach is good - use alpha as a testing ground. - Steph -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime D

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

On Tue, 2008-10-14 at 20:41 +0100, Steph Fox wrote: > > Yeah... I never had a response to ::: so I guess that one's been dumped out > of hand somewhere off-list, but darn I hate -> reuse with a passion! The use of ::: is far to simple. Nobody would want an elegant intuitive operator that uses 3 c

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

People, why you just don't change the namespace separator to something except :: and sole all the problems one and for all? God damn, use :> if you need - just push it out working! Most of my fellow programmers are just sick with reading internals discussing how to throw a feathure away because amb

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi! Broad-scale testing with the ability to alter the implementation should problems become apparent. What you are talking about? Who'll be doing this broad-scale testing, when? -- Stanislav Malyshev, Zend Software Architect [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.zend.com/ (408)253-8829 MSN: [EMAIL

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

If you can name something that could further our progress here and that can be done after 5.3 but can't be done right now - name it. Broad-scale testing with the ability to alter the implementation should problems become apparent. Otherwise I see absolutely no reason in postponing the decisi

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi Lukas, We have 4 options. We know how things are without namespaces, we know how things are with the current implementation. This essentially leaves 2 choices that are untested for now. True, true. Both of these approaches have some uncleanness to them. If functions and constants get

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi! The problem is we can't know whether restricting *future* evolution in namespace support is going to turn out to be a good idea. I think we have now all the information we could have without really having it in the wild. Yes, we can make a mistake based on this information, but I see no

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

On 14.10.2008, at 21:01, Steph Fox wrote: We are in alpha indeed, and still looking at proposals, and still without consensus. The last thing I'd want is to see namespace support pushed under the carpet, but I'd rather see it at this stage of development as part of the PHP 6 development cy

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

What would happen if we give the namespace implementation a chance to mature is that it can be delivered as a fully-fledged language element rather than a partially-fledged and potentially flawed one. What do you mean by "chance to mature"? Only chance for it to mature is people actually start

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi! What would happen if we give the namespace implementation a chance to mature is that it can be delivered as a fully-fledged language element rather than a partially-fledged and potentially flawed one. What do you mean by "chance to mature"? Only chance for it to mature is people actually

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

I can name two: 1. Most (not all, I know, but most) of the use cases for namespaces are in the OO realm, and most of the problems they are to serve come from that realm too. So at least initially most of the active users, which wait for it impatiently, are OO users, and classes are the thing th

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Stas, We are in alpha indeed, and still looking at proposals, and still without consensus. The last thing I'd want is to see namespace support pushed under the carpet, but I'd rather see it at this stage of development as part of the PHP 6 development cycle (as originally Why? What would hap

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi! Can anybody come up with a good case for why functions and constant should be 'thrown out with the bath water' ? I can name two: 1. Most (not all, I know, but most) of the use cases for namespaces are in the OO realm, and most of the problems they are to serve come from that realm too. S

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi Steph, [snip] This is very negative, Stas. "Everybody wants it so let's push it out without testing". Do you really want a repeat of 5.0? [/snip] I don't think Stas is implying not to test it. We are talking about another 5.3 alpha, right? Clearly the beta and RC releases will allow the c

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi! We are in alpha indeed, and still looking at proposals, and still without consensus. The last thing I'd want is to see namespace support pushed under the carpet, but I'd rather see it at this stage of development as part of the PHP 6 development cycle (as originally Why? What would happ

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Steph Fox wrote: Hi Tony, I don't think Stas is implying not to test it. Which proposal do you think he's implying not to test? And which of the other three proposals on offer do you think should go out there, bearing in mind that once the thing's released it can't be changed? I think tha

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi, Nobody talks about "without testing", we are in alpha. But I'm talking about working on it, not pushing it under the carpet and hoping it somehow gets better there. I am working on it, so do other people, but chanting "let's remove it" is not working. If anything is "negative", this is.

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi Tony, I don't think Stas is implying not to test it. Which proposal do you think he's implying not to test? And which of the other three proposals on offer do you think should go out there, bearing in mind that once the thing's released it can't be changed? - Steph -- PHP Internals -

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi! This is very negative, Stas. "Everybody wants it so let's push it out without testing". Do you really want a repeat of 5.0? Nobody talks about "without testing", we are in alpha. But I'm talking about working on it, not pushing it under the carpet and hoping it somehow gets better there.

RE: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

se were my 2 cents ... Yours, Catalin Z. Alexandru > -Original Message- > From: Steph Fox [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 8:47 PM > To: Stanislav Malyshev; internals@lists.php.net > Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces an

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi Stas, The thing is that there's nothing here that would improve with time. Except the chance to test approaches that are currently only theories. Pushing in to 6.0 is basically throwing it out forever, since there's nothing we could do in 6.0 that we can't do now, there's nothing that we

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi! This is what I've be fearing. First slated for 5.0. Then 5.3. Now 6.0. It appears there's consensus to rip it out which, in my prior post, I was all for if people felt it meant getting it right. The thing is that there's nothing here that would improve with time. Pushing in to 6.0 is

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

amespaces to 6.0. --Tony - Original Message From: Stefan Walk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: internals@lists.php.net Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 7:46:58 AM Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3 On Tuesday 14 October 2008 14:10:50 Steph Fox wrote: > I'm +1 on ripping

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

I say promise) to adding namespaces to 6.0. --Tony - Original Message From: Stefan Walk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: internals@lists.php.net Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 7:46:58 AM Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3 On Tuesday 14 October 2008 14:10:50 Steph Fox wrote: I'

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi Vesselin, I see the point and objections against "quick and dirty", but on the other hand the discussion about the namespaces started long time ago - two years already? Longer than that - they were thrown out in 5.0 too. If for two years there wasn't an agreement how they have to be impl

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 2:27 PM, David Zülke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Am 14.10.2008 um 14:10 schrieb Steph Fox: > > On 10 Oct 2008, at 06:03, Lukas Kahwe Smith wrote: > > 1) rip them out > > I'm +1 on this. We simply don't have consensus, and I don't see anyway >

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

I see the point and objections against "quick and dirty", but on the other hand the discussion about the namespaces started long time ago - two years already? If for two years there wasn't an agreement how they have to be implemented (or even whether to add them at all! because I see many comments

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Am 14.10.2008 um 14:10 schrieb Steph Fox: > On 10 Oct 2008, at 06:03, Lukas Kahwe Smith wrote: > > 1) rip them out > > I'm +1 on this. We simply don't have consensus, and I don't see anyway > we > can have consensus by the time 5.3 has to be frozen. Once namespaces > are in, > we're gonna h

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Am 14.10.2008 um 14:39 schrieb Steph Fox: Many people have starting working on top level application using namespaces, so there will a very bad buzz over the php community if namespaces are ripped out... People working with a development branch take their own chances. We keep BC for released

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Jochem Maas wrote: 1) rip them out +1 ... I concur with Steph's opinion Also +1 for taking them out. Namespaces should be saved for PHP 6 IMO as well. Now that the current namespaces have been tested there is at least a starting point for discussion. And that discussion has started as ever

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Lukas Kahwe Smith wrote: > Hi All, > > There was an offline exchange, which generated a lot of good ideas, but > that failed to find agreement for one final proposal among the > participants. I had hoped that the results would have been mailed to > this list yesterday. Since I am going on yet anot

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Major changes like ripping the feature that most people are looking forward to in 5.3 out? 'Most people'? I would've expected 'most people' to be writing code that will run under 5.1 for at least the next couple of years! Experience tells me that takeup of new language elements is slow, and t

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

I'm very happy with the current implementation of the namespaces, so my vote would be to keep it as it is. Otherwise my "fallback vote" would be for the '->' operator. I do find the namespaces very useful and I would like to see them in whatever shape in 5.3. > 1) Rip them out > 2) Keep as is >

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 1:34 PM, Jean-philippe Serafin < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Many people have starting working on top level application using > namespaces, so there will a very bad buzz over the php community if > namespaces are ripped out... There code should work fine in PHP 6 without

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

On Tuesday 14 October 2008 14:10:50 Steph Fox wrote: > I'm +1 on ripping out and leaving til 6.0. I don't think there is enough > time between now and the 5.3.0 code freeze to make major changes to the > language syntax. Major changes like ripping the feature that most people are looking forward

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Many people have starting working on top level application using namespaces, so there will a very bad buzz over the php community if namespaces are ripped out... People working with a development branch take their own chances. We keep BC for released code, not for dev code. - Steph -- PHP

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi Lukas, Just for the record, I was suggesting to add the E_STRICT in PHP6, not in PHP 5.3. I'd missed that, but it doesn't make a whole lot of difference IMHO. The reuse of an existing symbol is going to bring problems, and if we do it now we'll be blocking the possibility of a better res

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

On 14.10.2008, at 14:10, Steph Fox wrote: I'm +1 on ripping out and leaving til 6.0. I don't think there is enough time between now and the 5.3.0 code freeze to make major changes to the language syntax. Making -> do double duty and adding E_STRICT messages to currently legal code reall

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Steph Fox schreef: >>> > On 10 Oct 2008, at 06:03, Lukas Kahwe Smith wrote: >>> > >>> > 1) rip them out +1 ... I concur with Steph's opinion >>> > >>> > I'm +1 on this. We simply don't have consensus, and I don't see >>> anyway > we >>> > can have consensus by the time 5.3 has to be frozen. Once

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

> On 10 Oct 2008, at 06:03, Lukas Kahwe Smith wrote: > > 1) rip them out > > I'm +1 on this. We simply don't have consensus, and I don't see anyway > we > can have consensus by the time 5.3 has to be frozen. Once namespaces > are in, > we're gonna have to stick with whatever we choose, unless w

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Le mardi 14 octobre 2008 à 09:12 +0100, James Dempster a écrit : > On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 5:56 PM, Geoffrey Sneddon <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > wrote: > > > > > On 10 Oct 2008, at 06:03, Lukas Kahwe Smith wrote: > > > > 1) rip them out > >> > > > > I'm +1 on this. We simply don't have consensus, an

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 5:56 PM, Geoffrey Sneddon <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > > On 10 Oct 2008, at 06:03, Lukas Kahwe Smith wrote: > > 1) rip them out >> > > I'm +1 on this. We simply don't have consensus, and I don't see anyway we > can have consensus by the time 5.3 has to be frozen. Once nam

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

On 10.10.2008, at 19:02, Stanislav Malyshev wrote: It should be noted that this proposal builds on Stas previous proposal after Zendcon 1. Allow braces for namespaces. So, the syntax for namespaces will be: a) namespace foo; should be first (non-comment) statement in the file, namespace e

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Stanislav Malyshev wrote: 2. Leave functions/constants as they are now, and add the following syntax: Class::Name->method() for calling static methods (and referring to class constants), so that there would be a way to disambiguate calls in (rare, IMHO) situations where ambiguity may arise. I

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

On Friday 10 October 2008 19:02:25 Stanislav Malyshev wrote: > Hi! > > > 3) Stas proposal > > I have two proposals, actually. [snip] > 2. Leave functions/constants as they are now, and add the following syntax: > Class::Name->method() > for calling static methods (and referring to class constants

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi Lukas, Am Freitag, den 10.10.2008, 07:03 +0200 schrieb Lukas Kahwe Smith: [...] > 3) Stas proposal +1 here. cu, Lars -- Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Weblog: http://usrportage.de signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

frey Sneddon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Lukas Kahwe Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: PHP Development Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 11:56:11 AM Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3 On 10 Oct 2008, at 06:03, Lukas Kahwe Smith wrote: > 1) rip them out I'm +1 on this. We simply don&

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi! 3) Stas proposal I have two proposals, actually. 1. Leave functions (and constant) alone, i.e. namespace would ignore that. 1.1 Option: if you define function inside namespace, compiler could give an error (I don't like this option, but I mention it for the sake of completeness). 2. L

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

On 10 Oct 2008, at 06:03, Lukas Kahwe Smith wrote: 1) rip them out I'm +1 on this. We simply don't have consensus, and I don't see anyway we can have consensus by the time 5.3 has to be frozen. Once namespaces are in, we're gonna have to stick with whatever we choose, unless we totally

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

2008/10/10 Lukas Kahwe Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Hi All, > > There was an offline exchange, which generated a lot of good ideas, but that > failed to find agreement for one final proposal among the participants. I > had hoped that the results would have been mailed to this list yesterday. > Sinc

[PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

Hi All, There was an offline exchange, which generated a lot of good ideas, but that failed to find agreement for one final proposal among the participants. I had hoped that the results would have been mailed to this list yesterday. Since I am going on yet another frisbee trip in about an