[The Java Posse] Re: Response to Dick's iPhone 4S comments on episode 367

While we're on the topic of abandoned users, I'm outraged that my TiVo hasn't had a software update in years. I'm going to switch to a Linux- based DVR that posts their source as required by the GPL, perhaps one that ironically derives most of its profits from patent trollery. -- You received thi

[The Java Posse] Re: Are the Netflix and Rim falls the start of another tech bubble bursting ?

I don't think "bubble" is a good metaphor for this thread, particularly if you want to bring RIM into the discussion. A "bubble" usually refers to over-inflated prices of things, like stocks or currency, usually in the sense of a speculative market. RIM is a long- running company with millions of

[The Java Posse] Re: Windows 8 metro versus Java and other plugins...

Good points about and , although would it be spec- compliant to simply parse and ignore them? It's not like every browser today supports applets (for example, does Opera for the Wii have a JVM?). One thing that stood out to me in the MSDN blog justifying the move - https://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/ar

[The Java Posse] eWeek: Java Creator Gosling Leaves Google for Liquid Robotics

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Management/Java-Creator-Gosling-Leaves-Google-for-Liquid-Robotics-202744/ Wow. That didn't last long. He only joined Google in March. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send emai

[The Java Posse] Re: #360: Some comments

Some of Karsten's points remind me of episode #350 repeating the bogus (and quickly debunked) claim that the original iPhone was a ripoff of the Samsung F700… something that should have been screened out by Occam's Razor: with all the hype attending the iPhone launch in 2007, how could its plagiari

[The Java Posse] Re: Hello Moto! Google to acquire Motorola Mobility

Wall Street clearly isn't happy with GOOG's announcement: "GOOG today is down $20.47, or 3.7%, to $536.76; the stock is now down 4.8% since announcing the deal Monday morning. Or think of it this way: Google’s market cap has been trimmed by $8.7 billion in the last two days, suggesting serious dou

[The Java Posse] Re: Are there any techie SUPPORTERS of software patents left?

On Aug 8, 6:20 am, Carl Jokl wrote: > I do wonder considering that some have said that the US is the only > If Apple is able to successfully use patents to drive Android out of > existence then how is that for encouraging innovation and competition? The counter-argument is that Android doesn't in

[The Java Posse] Re: Are there any techie SUPPORTERS of software patents left?

I think there are three main bodies of belief on the subject: 1. People who believe in software patents without reservation. 2. People who believe in the idea of software patents, but with exceptions or reservations; i.e., they're fine with software patents in theory, but not with how the US

[The Java Posse] Re: Query to Java status on "OS X Lion" (10.7)

On Jul 22, 10:33 am, jwd wrote: > What a great way for Apple to gauge the real requirement to continue Java > support on the platform. Now all that is needed is some killer app that > requires the JVM - written in any language one presumes - to get Steve's > attention again. Sorry to say, but thi

[The Java Posse] O'Reilly Radar: Who leads the Java parade?

Longtime O'Reilly editor Mike Loukides has posted a long editorial about the Java community and its direction: > Since Oracle's acquisition of Sun, we've been wondering who will lead the > Java community. What sort of leadership is needed, and who will fill the > shoes that, for better or for wo

[The Java Posse] Re: Spring's Rod Johnson on OSGi

Looking at the TSS article, I'm surprised it took over an hour for the personal attacks to show up in the comments. I remember the OSGi community being much quicker to anger than that. On Jun 23, 4:22 pm, phil swenson wrote: > http://www.theserverside.com/news/2240037102/OSGi-Not-Easy-Enough-to-.

[The Java Posse] Re: Joe (and all), your thoughts on the Apple Announcements

It wasn't announced, per se, but the news that Apple has backed down from the most obnoxious of its in-app purchase requirements is hugely important: http://www.macworld.com/article/160430/2011/06/apple_removes_pricing_restrictions_in_app_subscriptions.html Surely everyone on this list will credi

[The Java Posse] Re: Joe (and all), your thoughts on the Apple Announcements

Everything except the keynote is under NDA, and I have no idea how the Engadget article isn't a screamingly obvious NDA violation. On Jun 8, 3:17 pm, Moandji Ezana wrote: > Is WWDC stuff no longer under NDA, or have people just honey-badgered it > (ie. they don't care)? I didn't think you were al

[The Java Posse] Re: OUCH! google-movies-blocked-rooted-devices

On May 23, 12:10 pm, Casper Bang wrote: > We can all put two and two together though. These are not the rules of > Google, they are the rules of the movie industry! Indeed. Seems a lot like HDCP, where the system has to "trust" any device connected to it, for fear that the VGA or DVI cable connec

[The Java Posse] Re: AppCode by JetBrains

On May 20, 9:50 am, phil swenson wrote: > Yep.  OS X fanatics hate anything that doesn't look purely "native." > They despise Air and Java Ever do professional Swing development? I had lots of enterprise clients in the bad old days who demanded pixel-accurate Windows versions. I remember poor

[The Java Posse] Re: AppCode by JetBrains

What I've heard from people who've tried it is an instinctive aversion to the UI. There's a cross-platform "UI smell" that Mac zealots have learned to seek out and destroy dating back to the bad old Swing days. People want an Xcode competitor to keep Apple honest, especially given high levels of f

[The Java Posse] Re: Is Apple is winning the PC war?

cs or art.  Where does computer > science land in all this then? > >  Alexey > > > From: Chris Adamson > To: The Java Posse > Sent: Fri, May 13, 2011 11:17:24 AM > Subject: [The Java Posse] Re: Is Apple is winning the PC war? > > On May 12, 10:55 pm, Cédri

[The Java Posse] Re: Is Apple is winning the PC war?

On May 12, 10:55 pm, Cédric Beust ♔ wrote: > I find this pretty typical in discussions involving Apple. Whenever the > exchanges start discussing numbers, Apple enthusiasts tend to quickly dig in > with a "I don't care, Apple makes tons of money which means they're great". Tim O'Reilly, from "Rul

[The Java Posse] Re: 2525 song - not just from Cleopatra 2525.

> Certainly I would take it any day over the junk the local vagrants are > blasting out of their tinny mobile phone speakers on the bus...but > that is another story... > > On May 12, 11:04 am, Chris Adamson wrote: > > > > > > > > > Humorist Dave Barry singl

[The Java Posse] Re: 2525 song - not just from Cleopatra 2525.

Humorist Dave Barry singled it out in his book, "Dave Barry's Book of Bad Songs", in which he built on several of his newspaper columns about bad songs with a poll of his readership to find the worst song of all time (it's "MacArthur Park", BTW). He spends about a page and a half on "In The Year 2

Re: [The Java Posse] Monthly Apple gainsaying thread

dici wrote: > On 05/09/2011 09:50 PM, Chris Adamson wrote: >> >> >> Tweeting with Cooper about this, it seems plausible (hell, obvious) that >> this is a proxy attack on Android >> <https://twitter.com/#!/invalidname/status/60081444986425345 >> <ht

[The Java Posse] Monthly Apple gainsaying thread

Following up on JavaPosse #350's various Apple-related items and whether or not they're true… * Apple/Samsung suit Tweeting with Cooper about this, it seems plausible (hell, obvious) that this is a proxy attack on Android . What I w

[The Java Posse] Re: correction on April 15 Podcast - apple plists are xml

Casper: plists are typically used privately and are rarely shared between applications, so the specifics of the serialization format are largely irrelevant. On May 4, 2:47 am, Casper Bang wrote: > So it's a file format everyone serializes to/from differently (ASCII, > XML, binary...?!). That real

[The Java Posse] Re: James Gosling goes to Google

You know, rather than just enjoy his name value and geek cred, Google getting Dr. Gosling to get Go moving could be an intriguingly disruptive idea. Go seems like the only compiled language with any new thought and effort behind it (*), which could be valuable on the device. Maybe Go could become t

[The Java Posse] Re: iPad 2

ailable today." -Chris On Mar 4, 11:37 am, Cédric Beust ♔ wrote: > On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 4:55 AM, Chris Adamson wrote: > > I went to a conference session last October by Chris Hofstader (http:// > > iphonefall2010.crowdvine.com/speakers/10842), who heads up GNU > > accessi

[The Java Posse] Re: iPad 2

On Mar 3, 5:55 pm, Fabrizio Giudici wrote: > I think that Android needs a few (I'm saying a few, not a lot of) > high-profile apps in this area that probably aren't the ones that single > developers or small companies can do. I think that Google is doing that, > see some recent job ads. But for co

[The Java Posse] Re: iPad 2

I went to a conference session last October by Chris Hofstader (http:// iphonefall2010.crowdvine.com/speakers/10842), who heads up GNU accessibility for the FSF. He said that in his opinion, Apple was "years ahead of everyone else" when it comes to accessibility. Not sure if I'd attribute it to PR

[The Java Posse] Re: iPad 2

Its effectiveness with autistic kids is truly extraordinary. The tools for these kids have previously been expensive and limited -- one hard- core autistic kid in my son's class communicates primarily with an electronic board decked out with a few dozen physical buttons labelled with icons. These d

[The Java Posse] Re: Apple in-app subscription service

While I agree that Apple's moves potentially benefit the user (in terms of convenience), it won't benefit them if content providers pick up their stakes and leave altogether, or say "just use the website then" and provide rich clients only for other platforms. If that happens, then hopefully Apple

[The Java Posse] Re: Nokia goes Windows Mobile

unless I had to. There's nothing to gain and a lot of advantage to lose. On Feb 11, 7:16 pm, Moandji Ezana wrote: > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Chris Adamson wrote: > > > It's unlikely that either Apple or Google would disclose such numbers, > > as it would be be useful

[The Java Posse] Re: Nokia goes Windows Mobile

On Feb 11, 1:27 pm, Moandji Ezana wrote: > http://gizmodo.com/#!5757962/over-a-thousand-nokia-employees-reported... > > "According to the report, there are some 3000 total employees at Nokia's > Tampere office, with roughly 1500 of them working on Symbian. Roughly > another thousand work on Symbia

[The Java Posse] Jingle for "Oracle Outrage of the Week" segment

Royalties be damned (you guys aren't sending a check to Styx every time you play "Mr. Roboto", I'm sure), here are my nominations for a theme song / jingle for what seems to be an increasingly common segment wherein Oracle pisses off the Java community: 1. "Oops, I Did It Again" by Brtitney Spears

[The Java Posse] Re: Google hiring devs to write Android apps

Well, just to level with my biases and opinions: * I was a full-time Java developer from 1997-2004. I edited java.net full-time from 2004-2008. I also wrote or co-wrote two books on desktop Java in that time: "QuickTime for Java: A Developer's Notebook" and "Swing Hacks" * I switched to iPhone

[The Java Posse] Google hiring devs to write Android apps

Not to write Android itself, its SDK, or its tools (like Tor, and Kirill, and Chet, and so many other well-known Java GUI people are doing), but rather to write new and novel Android apps to make the platform as a whole more compelling: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703554204576112

[The Java Posse] Re: Android 3.0 SDK Preview released

Smart of Honeycomb to jump on the HTTP Live Streaming bandwagon. I've talked about it a lot here, so here's another article on it: http://pulsene.ws/SbgI (thanks to Mike Loukides at O'Reilly for tweeting it). The smart thing would be to use this so Android users can get in on the streams that curr

[The Java Posse] Re: Resolution independence in Android vs. iOS at the developer level

Granted, most iOS developers I know think the @2x thing feels like an atrocious kludge. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see it deprecated a few years from now. The blog you link to points out that since the only problem is in the places where you depend on bitmapped graphics, since shapes, strok

[The Java Posse] Re: Resolution independence in Android vs. iOS at the developer level

To expand on this and draw some comparisons… In Leopard, Apple was pushing developers to some resolution- independence APIs, but not all of these made the move to iOS. The foundations are there, but not all the details. In iOS, you're supposed to think in terms of points, not pixels. On early iPho

[The Java Posse] iPhone battery hogs

I can't find it as I scrub through JavaPosse #336, but didn't Dick mention something about his sister's (or other relative's) iPhone nearly discharging overnight after upgrading to iOS 4? If so, here's a tip: look on the status bar to see if the location arrow is on. Especially if it's on ALL THE

[The Java Posse] Re: Listener predictions for 2011

book/> But enough about my predictions. We can debate in January, 2012. Who's got next? --Chris On Jan 17, 9:26 pm, Cédric Beust ♔ wrote: > On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Chris Adamson wrote: > > > I know, the phrasing is peculiar, but it's an article of faith in the

[The Java Posse] Listener predictions for 2011

The Posse put out a call for predictions in #336. Whether or not anybody likes it, here's mine: "No third-party Android app will attain 'cultural sensation' status in 2011, meaning it is widely recognized in the mainstream culture and media." I know, the phrasing is peculiar, but it's an article

[The Java Posse] Re: Google to drop H.264 codec from Chrome

On Jan 15, 2:05 pm, Craig Kelley wrote: > After all, PNG made GIF obsolete -- and I remember when Mozilla and > Opera were the only browsers to support it. One objection I have to this popular analogy: PNG was demonstrably superior to GIF: better compression, better transparency, better document

[The Java Posse] Re: Google to drop H.264 codec from Chrome

I can hardly contain my disgust at Google's move, and the utterly vapid rationale behind it. I'll just hope that some of you will consider the effect this has on video professionals, who see the world very differently than software developers do. Jan Ozer at Streaming Media wrote a commentary, "C

[The Java Posse] Re: Developers are voting with their feet in 2011 (destination Android).

Apropos of nothing I suppose, one thing I've noticed recently is a lot more use of the little green android logo in advertising and branding aimed at end-users. When I first saw the little green Android logo, I had assumed it would be associated with how developers saw the Android brand, like Duke

[The Java Posse] Re: Tron Legacy

If nothing else, the original was generous with catchphrases. I had a friend in high school who often used the salutation "Greetings, programs!" when walking into a group. It keeps attracting shoutouts from other shows and movies… for example, the "hybrids" in the new "Battlestar Galactica" always

[The Java Posse] Re: Would a JavaPosse app be banned from iOS?

I think your reading of the policy (3.1 - "Apps with metadata that mentions the name of any other mobile platform will be rejected") is correct. It stinks, it's obnoxious, it's cravenly self-serving, and it makes me think they're a little scared. But you'd be a damn fool to risk breaking it, part

[The Java Posse] Re: "Women Fed Up With Open Source Community Creeps"

But 10 years ago, the Open Source poster children were far more ambitious: operating systems (Linux) and major applications (Apache, OpenOffice, etc.). Your examples are interesting in terms of computer science, and there are lots of others like them (LLVM could well be revelatory), but isn't ther

[The Java Posse] Re: iOS fragmentation vs. Android fragmentation

Getting back to the issue of fragmentation, John Carmack recently chimed in on the topic in an interview on Ars. /. pointed out Carmack's dissatisfaction with the Android Marketplace, but he then goes on to voice a concern about fragmentation: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/11/post-8.ars

[The Java Posse] Re: "Women Fed Up With Open Source Community Creeps"

Not where I expected this discussion to go (and I could really live without the romanticization of Autistic Spectrum Disorders, thanks), but that's fine. The thing that stood out to me, and that I'm surprised nobody has objected to, is the fact that the article specifically implicates the Open Sou

[The Java Posse] "Women Fed Up With Open Source Community Creeps"

Wow, any thoughts on this, fellow nearly-entirely-male list readership? http://jezebel.com/5705980/women-fed-up-with-open-source-community-creeps "A feminist programmer describes the culture of the open source community as fraught with sexism and discrimination against women programmers—and a ser

[The Java Posse] Re: iOS fragmentation vs. Android fragmentation

But Apple doesn't forbid cross-compilation or VMs anymore, so why are we still talking about it? Just to score "Apple is evil" points? Secondly, is it really fair to blame the stagnation of Java ME for fragmentation? The hardware manufacturers and carriers are loath to have a standard -- any stan

[The Java Posse] Re: Can't wait for the discussion on this one... Apple bans magazine with articles about android from app store.

Consoles: Katamari, Bemani / music games, Zach & Wiki, Cooking Mama, Wii Sports, the entire genre of sandbox games (GTA, etc.), PCs: First-person shooters, RTS, first-person shooters, RTS, first- person shooters, etc. That said, Flash gaming is an interesting counterpoint. And... we've lost the t

[The Java Posse] Re: Can't wait for the discussion on this one... Apple bans magazine with articles about android from app store.

On Nov 30, 9:05 am, Josh Berry wrote: > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Chris Adamson wrote: >  But I question > whether any of them practice the level of control that Apple is > showing here. I would argue they do. In researching my afore-linked blog, I looked up and linked to t

[The Java Posse] Re: Can't wait for the discussion on this one... Apple bans magazine with articles about android from app store.

Karsten's right on this point on consoles, and it goes further than is generally recognized. The console owners also control the manufacturing and distribution of retail game products, and only allow titles to remain available at retail for a set time, before they are pulled from the market to make

[The Java Posse] Re: Can't wait for the discussion on this one... Apple bans magazine with articles about android from app store.

Interesting question: would Apple block it from iBooks if they converted it to EPUB? I don't know if there are public guidelines for what they will and won't publish through that program (although, unlike the App Store, there are alternatives: Stanza, Kindle, Borders, etc.). On Nov 30, 8:15 am, CK

[The Java Posse] Re: Why didn't they choose Java/JavaFX over GNUStep/Objective-C

On Nov 25, 7:15 am, Carl Jokl wrote: > I don't know if people were transferable between Sun Labs and the > mainstream company. I found Sun Labs the coolest part of Sun albeit > any R&D is not going to be instantly profitable. There was the > understanding in Sun Labs that projects undertaken there

[The Java Posse] Re: Why didn't they choose Java/JavaFX over GNUStep/Objective-C

Fair enough. There are plenty of other Sun misadventures to abuse. Next time I'll pick on Darkstar (the game server nobody wanted, but in Java) or Looking Glass (the desktop nobody wanted, but in Java) instead. And that's not even getting into JavaFX (the Flash wannabe that… well, you get the ide

[The Java Posse] Re: Why didn't they choose Java/JavaFX over GNUStep/Objective-C

On Nov 24, 5:07 pm, CKoerner wrote: > If Blu-Ray players choose Java, why not Snap? Actually, this is the question I think we all should have been asking Sony (and others) years ago about other devices. Like with the Sony Reader, which needs to sync to a computer to get new content, they wrote a

[The Java Posse] Re: is the iPhone Development Environment Superior to Android's?

Depends on who you hear from, Reiner. I don't find the love/hate ratio within the iOS/Mac dev community to be that much different from feelings about NetBeans and Eclipse within the Java community. Each has fans and each has haters within its user-base. And there are things I like and dislike ab

[The Java Posse] Re: is the iPhone Development Environment Superior to Android's?

think there was an effort to legitimize and evangelize an Eclipse application platform, written in Java but using SWT and other add-on technologies from the Eclipse Foundation (such as OSGi). --Chris On Nov 24, 2:59 am, "Vince O'Sullivan" wrote: > On Nov 23, 7:58 pm, Chris Ada

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: is the iPhone Development Environment Superior to Android's?

On Nov 23, 2010, at 2:35 PM, Fabrizio Giudici wrote: > But isn't it the way around too? I mean, as far as I know there are no other > IDEs supporting Objective C, so if you love iPhone and Objective C you "have" > to love XCode... right? In general, I'd say that's true, although a lot of IDEs a

[The Java Posse] Re: is the iPhone Development Environment Superior to Android's?

On Nov 23, 12:56 pm, "Manfred Moser" wrote: > People keep missing the point that Android is about choice even in these > comparisons. You do NOT have to use Eclipse if you dont want to. I know > people that develop Android apps in KomodoEdit, IntelliJ, Neetbeans, > Eclipse, Vim and Emacs... > > Tr

[The Java Posse] Re: General Pedantry

OMG, do you *really* want a plot summary of this awful not-even-a-rock- opera, to provide the context? Or can you take it as given that it's not actually a Mr. Roboto saying/singing those lines, but the character Kilroy in disguise as a Roboto? --Chris On Nov 18, 5:07 am, Gaijintendo wrote: > T

[The Java Posse] Re: Oracle and Apple Announce OpenJDK Project for OSX

t; That's new, and it means that NetBeans and IntelliJ IDEA won't just cease to function as soon as you install Lion. So the void to be filled is all about Java SE 7. As conservative as most Java developers are about new versions (or their employers, really), it could be years before that re

[The Java Posse] Oracle and Apple Announce OpenJDK Project for OSX

Dalibor just tweeted a link to this: http://blogs.oracle.com/henrik/2010/11/oracle_and_apple_announce_openjdk_project_for_osx.html -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.com

[The Java Posse] Re: apache quitting JCP?

On Nov 9, 5:15 pm, Casper Bang wrote: > I admire your optimism, that we > can just humour the firemen and enjoy the pretty fire, but I remain > unconvinced that Apache's "obstructionism" is to blame for the sorry > state of Java... Sun handled that all by themselves. Please be careful not to put

[The Java Posse] Re: apache quitting JCP?

On Nov 9, 1:10 pm, phil swenson wrote: > what are the implications of this (if any)? A round of applause from my little home office if they follow through with it. I've long since tired of ASF's obstructionism, and this election was the second time I've voted against their re-ratification. If

[The Java Posse] Re: General Pedantry

It gets worse. I wrote the first version of the TV Tropes article on the rock opera that contains the song. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Music/KilroyWasHere --Chris On Nov 8, 1:18 pm, Tor Norbye wrote: > Is the Wikipedia article inaccurate?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Roboto > > "T

[The Java Posse] Mac Java and secret APIs

Just listening to #329 and I think undue attention is paid to OSX "secret APIs" in the context of a hypothetical community port of a Mac JDK. Gosling's blog http://nighthacks.com/roller/jag/entry/steve_jobs_comments_on_apple complains about secret APIs in graphics rendering, but then goes on to s

[The Java Posse] Re: Apple discontinues XServes

One of my Twitter follows joked "well, I guess Apple isn't putting XServes in that North Carolina data center", and maybe there's a connection between this and the deprecation of Java. A lot of us pointed out "hey, wait, WebObjects runs on Java, and that's the heart and soul of Apple's various onl

[The Java Posse] Re: Apple discontinues XServes

I think I can see where you're going with this, Fabrizio. Like Mac Java, which might have been profitable based on hardware sales to developers but represented no value beyond that to the company (haters, feel free to argue that Apple is "threatened" by Java), the XServe might have made some tiny

[The Java Posse] Re: "JKoala is an open source project aimed at porting AWT / Swing under Mac OS X / Cocoa"

Dalibor just tweeted a status update on the bsd-port project from Landon Fuller, in the context of whether JKoala could/should be integrated with it at some point. http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/bsd-port-dev/2010-October/001355.html It's in response to Rob, who likes the one-focused-devel

[The Java Posse] Re: "JKoala is an open source project aimed at porting AWT / Swing under Mac OS X / Cocoa"

BTW, I suppose I should stop referring to Soy Latte -- I think it got rolled into OpenJDK's bsd-port subproject , as that's where Landon Fuller has been directing people, c.f., --Chris

[The Java Posse] Re: "JKoala is an open source project aimed at porting AWT / Swing under Mac OS X / Cocoa"

I just got an e-mail from a party with a big stake in how this plays out, and I'm wondering how to give them a useful response, without speculating or sending them in the wrong direction. So here are a few thoughts currently in my head, with some questions that you guys and girls can probably help

[The Java Posse] Re: "JKoala is an open source project aimed at porting AWT / Swing under Mac OS X / Cocoa"

I estimated it at 5 to 10%, and Kirill tweeted back that he thought even that was too high. My perception is that the Mac has almost zero adoption as a Java development machine outside N. America, Europe, and Australasia, and there are a heck of a lot of Java developers in India and China. On Oct

[The Java Posse] Re: "JKoala is an open source project aimed at porting AWT / Swing under Mac OS X / Cocoa"

Fabrizio Giudici wrote: > On 10/26/2010 09:42 PM, Chris Adamson wrote: > > > Scott Kovatch, who worked on SWT for OS X at Apple, had this to say to > > say about the scope of such a project (http://twitter.com/#!/skovatch/ > > status/28570794726): > > >      &qu

[The Java Posse] Re: "JKoala is an open source project aimed at porting AWT / Swing under Mac OS X / Cocoa"

Scott Kovatch, who worked on SWT for OS X at Apple, had this to say to say about the scope of such a project (http://twitter.com/#!/skovatch/ status/28570794726): "@kirillcool 5 FTE's took one year to create #SWT Cocoa port; 4 of the 5 knew the API inside out. A new AWT would take at least as

[The Java Posse] Re: Email from Jobs re Java on OS-X

BTW. interesting blog entry on this from Matt Drance at Apple Outsider: http://www.appleoutsider.com/2010/10/22/java/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter Major points of interest include the fact that Apple had a bunch of people working hard on Java over the years, and that the bulk of that

[The Java Posse] Re: Email from Jobs re Java on OS-X

I answered this in another thread, but briefly: * Apple was in very bad shape in 1997 (most people expected it to be acquired or go out of business), so Sun wasn't all that interested in putting resources into a doomed platform. Their JDK 1.0 was about as half-assed a release as you'll ever see.

[The Java Posse] Re: Email from Jobs re Java on OS-X

On Oct 22, 6:17 pm, Rob Ross wrote: > What kind of crazy logic is this, to blame Oracle because *Apple* is > deprecating their JDK? Are you saying Sun/Oracle should be maintaining a > separate port of the JDK for every vendor that does one of their own??? If the value provided by Java isn't eno

[The Java Posse] Re: Apple has just deprecated Java on the Mac!!!

WebObjects, which powers all their e-commerce, is written in Java. However, when I tweeted about this the other day, someone replied that WO runs just fine on other VMs and platforms, so Apple doesn't necessarily need their own Java to keep WO running. On Oct 22, 8:21 am, Carl Jokl wrote: > Doesn

[The Java Posse] Re: Email from Jobs re Java on OS-X

On Oct 22, 8:58 am, phil swenson wrote: > The real problem here is apple pulled an a-hole move.  They just said > it's deprecated.  They didn't inform oracle and come up with a > transition story.  That would have been the professional thing to do. I think they have a fairly clear transition stor

[The Java Posse] Re: Email from Jobs re Java on OS-X

To me, one line that stood out in Gosling's blog was this one: "Sun also provided the VM for Linux because there was no one else to do it." There was a Blackdown port of Java, but I believe it was pretty troubled. Porting all of Java, including AWT and javax.sound and all that, is *hard*. Again

[The Java Posse] Re: Email from Jobs re Java on OS-X

I think the point of Sun/Oracle making their own JVM/JDK for a given OS is to keep or gain developers. So the question is: if you couldn't develop Java on a Mac, how many developers would they lose? Would current Mac-based Java developers change machines or change languages? I think most, like F

[The Java Posse] Re: Email from Jobs re Java on OS-X

The one thing that makes me think this might be legitimate is the focus on release schedules. Since Apple has shipped Java as a system- level framework, their policy has been to include one Java version with the x.0 release of OS X -- ideally the most current Java, but they failed to do so with Sno

[The Java Posse] Re: Email from Jobs re Java on OS-X

And in 1997, it was pretty understandable why Sun wasn't that interested in the Mac: a lot of people didn't think Apple would still be in business by 2000. Sun was perfectly happy to let someone else carry the Java banner on Mac. For a while, Sun even put a few of its engineers at Apple to work o

[The Java Posse] Re: Apple's rules for the Mac OS X store

Given that Apple is a lot more like a consumer electronics company than what we've traditionally thought of as a computer company, the analogy to Nintendo is particularly apt. The game console makers totally control software for their systems -- not only do they control what can be released for th

[The Java Posse] Re: Apple has just deprecated Java on the Mac!!!

A couple fact checks: On Oct 21, 2:44 pm, "Joe Nuxoll (Java Posse)" wrote: > Note that Apple > never took on building their own version of Flash to ship on their > platform, because Adobe saw value in building a Mac version - because > Adobe's target customer was already living in Mac land. Actu

[The Java Posse] Re: email campaign? Apple has just deprecated the Mac for Java!!!

On Oct 21, 11:16 am, Kevin Wright wrote: > Wasn't it the 2001 WWDC where Steve Jobs announced that Macs would be the > *best* platform for Java development? Actually, it was JavaOne 2000 (like I said earlier, it was so long ago that Bill Clinton was the US President at the time). 2001 is when So

[The Java Posse] Re: Apple has just deprecated Java on the Mac!!!

On Oct 21, 7:51 am, Kevin Wright wrote: > Which comes very close to asserting that Apple only wants jerks to develop > on their platform. > > I dearly wish I could see a kinder interpretation of the facts, but it > currently evades me... [OK, I know I said I was going to stop, but this really bug

[The Java Posse] Re: Apple has just deprecated Java on the Mac!!!

On Oct 21, 7:11 am, Kevin Wright wrote: > The way I see it going: > > Apple want consumers > consumers want applications > applications are written by developers > but the developers have run off, fed up with the way Apple is treating them Really? Jobs said yesterday that the Mac Dev Program has

[The Java Posse] Re: Apple has just deprecated Java on the Mac!!!

On Oct 21, 6:51 am, Carl Jokl wrote: > But with Apple isn't all the emphasis lately on Costumers and > Consuming content. Developer friendliness isn't a focus. Very true. Someone recently said that Apple "puts itself first, users second, and developers third." That sounds about right. As a men

[The Java Posse] Re: Apple has just deprecated Java on the Mac!!!

On Oct 21, 3:36 am, robross wrote: > On Oct 21, 12:13 am, Jan Goyvaerts™ wrote: > > > I won't be surprised if Oracle steps in to produce a JVM for all platforms. > > That's more or less what Apple is forcing them to do ? > > I do hope you are right. But I don't see what the financial advantage >

[The Java Posse] Re: Apple has just deprecated Java on the Mac!!!

Also in the release notes, there's a lot of information about Apple moving the location of its JVM: "The location of the Java SE 6 runtime home has changed to /System/ Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/1.6.0.jdk/Contents/Home. JDK bundles provided via the Developer package, developer previews, and

[The Java Posse] JavaPosse 325 - Interview with Mark Reinhold

Nobody's been talking about this episode on the group, but the interview with Mark Reinhold is really a great episode. The questions are deep, thoughtful, clever, and cover a lot of what people are wondering about, and Mark was very forthcoming in his answers, with nary a trace of corporate B.S. G

[The Java Posse] Re: 24 hrs to get those CodeMash abstracts in

BTW, there was a Roundup session from a few years ago on "User- Organized Conferences" from a few years ago that's mostly Dianne and Stephan Janssen comparing notes on Codemash and Javapolis (later to be renamed Javoxx, and then Devoxx), with occasional questions from me and Bruce Eckel. It might

[The Java Posse] Re: Relative productivity of C/C++ relative to Java

On Sep 30, 9:36 am, Carl Jokl wrote: > The way I see it is that even with the Computer Science background and > understanding O/S memory allocation models and how C/C++ allocates > memory as well as Stack and Heap memory theory the errors still happen > because I am human and miss things sometimes

[The Java Posse] Re: Relative productivity of C/C++ relative to Java

I'm not sure about "most" H.26x decoding being done in hardware. On the Mac, we only got this with QuickTime X in Snow Leopard. Prior to last year, H.264 decoding was all in software. Of course, it is genuinely a big deal for mobile to use hardware decoding because of the performance and energy w

[The Java Posse] Re: Relative productivity of C/C++ relative to Java

IBM had a decoder for the "base" MPEG-4 codec (which preceded H.264, and is in some ways a tweaked H.263) working in Java back in 2003. http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/tk4mpeg4 I don't doubt for a second that H.264 decoding, at least for the simpler profiles that are in widespread use today, w

[The Java Posse] Re: .... Leaves Oracle

Good point, Jitesh. After all, Sun was shedding great people before it was acquired too, both through layoffs and voluntary departures. Notably, nearly all the great Java Desktop minds are now on other platforms: for example, Chet Haase and Hans Mueller are at Adobe, Romain Guy is at Google (Androi

[The Java Posse] Re: Tor Joins Google

Even more shockingly, his two tweets in the last few days has gotten his average twitter period under one tweet per year. http://twitter.com/tornorbye -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to javapo

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