Here's an interesting post from Phil Payne on the IBM_MAIN list:
Ain't Google wonderful - indexing and cacheing the entire contents of
the World Wide Web on loads and loads of PCs?
Actually - no. Those who use and try to manage it daily will tell
you it's one great chimera - those distributed
On Iau, 2006-05-04 at 09:31 -0500, Dave Jones wrote:
> > But today is special - the CEO has admitted that the grand
> > distributed PC approach hasn't worked.
> >
> > http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum30/34147.htm
Funny but that doesn't seem to be what the original referenced material
is about.
ehalf
Of
> Dave Jones
> Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 10:31 AM
> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
> Subject: [LINUX-390] Google out of capacity?
>
> Here's an interesting post from Phil Payne on the IBM_MAIN list:
>
> > Ain't Google wonderful - indexing and cacheing
> -Original Message-
> From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Gregg C Levine
> Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 10:17 AM
> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
> Subject: Re: Google out of capacity?
>
>
> Hello!
> Regrettably I must d
IST.EDU> Subject
Re: Google out of capacity?
05/04/2006 11:25
AM
Please respond to
Linux on 390 Port
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
IST.EDU>
On Iau, 2
On Thursday 04 May 2006 01:03 pm, Joseph Temple wrote:
> Does anyone know how many of what class of servers are being used? Also,
> my guess is that some sort of hybrid might be the answer. That is some of
> the clusters may lend themselves to virtualization more than others,
> yielding variabl
Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Joseph Temple
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 1:03 PM
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Google out of capacity?
IBM probably could build them, whether we could sell them at price
Google
could afford is another issue...
Does anyone know how many of what
ubject
Re: Google
out of capacity?
Please respond to
Linux on 390 Port
On Thursday 04 May 2006 01:03 pm, Joseph Temple wrote:
> Does anyone know how many of what class of servers are being used? Also,
> my guess is that
Subject
Re: Google
out of capacity?
Please respond to
Linux on 390 Port
On Thursday 04 May 2006 01:03 pm, Joseph Temple wrote:
> Does anyone know how many of what class of servers
@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Google out of capacity?
On 5/4/06, James Melin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Does that remind anyone of the descriptions of the humongous vaccuum tube
> driven machines that had techs walking through the innards and replacing
> burnt out tubes? Seems Googl
05/04/2006 02:53 PM
Subject
Re: Google
out of capacity?
Please respond to
Linux on 390 Port
A long time ago I read that they did TCO studies, and found it less
X-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
390 Portcc
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
T.EDU> Subject
Re: Google out of capacity?
05/04/
: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Google out of capacity?
I could see that being true when coupled with the mindset of 'if it fails,
trash it' because you're not spending FTE dollars troubleshooting things
and spending thousands of man hours in problem determination. That
Talking about heat! The vendors are planning on, horror of horrors,
water-cooled processors!
tom
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Toto, I have a feeling we're not in the mainframe world any more.
_/) Tom Shilson
~Unix Team / IT Server Services
Aloha Tel:
> -Original Message-
> From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Tom Shilson
> Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 4:24 PM
> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
> Subject: Re: Google out of capacity?
>
>
> Talking about heat! The vendors are pla
About 200? I am not sure of the price.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am not sure I remember this right, but I think they said the pay less then
$1,000 per server. They can buy a lot of $1,000 systems for the cost of one z9.
--
Stephen Frazier
Information Technology Unit
Oklahoma Department o
Joseph Temple wrote:
IBM probably could build them, whether we could sell them at price Google
could afford is another issue...
Does anyone know how many of what class of servers are being used? Also,
my guess is that some sort of hybrid might be the answer. That is some of
the clusters may l
Yeah - but a z9 takes up a WHOLE lot less floor space, a LOT less
environmentals, can be managed by one or two people, AND it will never
break.
Bob Lee
Systems Programmer, VSE
Mt. San Antonio College
(909)595-5611 x 4379
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
About 200? I am not sure of the pri
LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Google out of capacity?
Yeah - but a z9 takes up a WHOLE lot less floor space, a LOT less
environmentals, can be managed by one or two people, AND it will never
break.
Bob Lee
Systems Programmer, VSE
Mt. San Antonio College
(909)595-5611 x 4
On 05/05/2006, at 5:53am, Fargusson.Alan wrote:
A long time ago I read that they did TCO studies, and found it less
costly to buy lots of low cost hardware over buying fewer high cost
systems.
"A long time ago" is the point. When I read similar, the server
count was around 8000 -- it would se
On Fri, May 05, 2006 at 01:53:48PM +1000, Vic Cross wrote:
> On 05/05/2006, at 5:53am, Fargusson.Alan wrote:
> >A long time ago I read that they did TCO studies, and found it less
> >costly to buy lots of low cost hardware over buying fewer high cost
> >systems.
>
> "A long time ago" is the point.
On Fri, 5 May 2006, Vic Cross wrote:
> On 05/05/2006, at 5:53am, Fargusson.Alan wrote:
>
> > A long time ago I read that they did TCO studies, and found it less
> > costly to buy lots of low cost hardware over buying fewer high cost
> > systems.
>
> "A long time ago" is the point. When I read sim
Gregg C Levine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>And besides, to view the link you've posted, requires a subscription.
Actually, it doesn't: when you get the "login" page, click the "Passed URL"
link. Weird and unintuitive; I drew the same conclusion you did, but someone
else enlightened me.
The li
Subject
Re: Google out of capacity?
05/05/2006 02:02
AM
Please respond to
Linux on 390 Port
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
IST.EDU>
On Fri, 5 May 2006, Vic Cross wrote:
> On 05/05/2006, at 5:
>I am not sure I remember this right, but I think they said the pay less
>then $1,000 per server. They can buy a lot of $1,000 systems for the
>cost of one z9.
I'd say that's true in one sense - without the TCO calculations. But in
another sense - how much does it cost for a virtual Linux server
ED]
IST.EDU> Subject
Re: Google out of capacity?
05/05/2006 08:40
AM
Please respond to
Linux on 390 Port
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
IST.EDU>
]
---
"Remember the Force will be with you. Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> -Original Message-
> From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
> shogunx
> Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 2:03 AM
> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
> Subject: Re: [LINUX-390] Goo
05.05.2006 15:40:36 Tim Hare wrote:
>I'd say that's true in one sense - without the TCO calculations. But in
>another sense - how much does it cost for a virtual Linux server?
Assuming
>(I know, I know.. ) their z/VM box has some capacity left, it costs very
>little to create one more Linux image
I think it's a safe bet that many 54-way z9's would be required, and lots of
fully loaded
DS8000's, with the new 4G Ficon (insert tool man growl here).
It would be a sweet coup if there were any interest.
Sergey Korzhevsky wrote:
05.05.2006 15:40:36 Tim Hare wrote:
I'd say that's true in on
> does naybody know if Google's qualified Planners are looking at the
> TCO (total cost of ownership) to justify 100k servers versus
> SUN/AIX/zOS/zVM solutions?
> or is it philosophical and their investors/board of directors want to
> show innovation as a way to increase capitalization?
They watc
So who gets the broken stuff? Is it cannibalized for parts or should I start
raiding the dumpsters at Google?
Jon
1U netbooted boxes (most of
their machines don't even HAVE disks, just CPU and network) are
essentially disposable at the volume that Google buys them -- 5000 to
1 at a time.
> it costs very
> little to create one more Linux image, and you don't have to wait for
> someone to bring one from the storage room / warehouse. Note that I'm
> assuming Google buys extra hardware in advance, installing it as
needed,
> rather than waiting until they need it to buy it. If they wai
On Friday, 05/05/2006 at 10:09 EST, Rich Smrcina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I think it's a safe bet that many 54-way z9's would be required, and
lots of
> fully loaded
> DS8000's, with the new 4G Ficon (insert tool man growl here).
>
> It would be a sweet coup if there were any interest.
Picture
If the servers are running at a certain percentage of capacity, how would
virtualization help? z or otherwise?
> -Original Message-
> From: Alan Altmark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 12:43 PM
> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
> Subject: Re: Google
their own distributed file system as well.
-Sam
-Original Message-
From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Alan Altmark
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 1:43 PM
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Google out of capacity?
On Friday, 05/05/2006 at 10:09 EST, Rich Sm
2 words for you matey: soylent green
--
For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit
http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
On Friday, 05/05/2006 at 12:46 EST, "Little, Chris"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If the servers are running at a certain percentage of capacity, how
would
> virtualization help? z or otherwise?
It helps because you can still dedicate CPUs to virtual servers. If CPU
is King, then by all means giv
, how would
virtualization help? z or otherwise?
> -Original Message-
> From: Alan Altmark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 12:43 PM
> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
> Subject: Re: Google out of capacity?
>
> On Friday, 05/05/2006 at 10:09 EST, Rich Smrci
> So who gets the broken stuff? Is it cannibalized for parts or should
I
> start raiding the dumpsters at Google?
AFAIK, they pull the usable stuff and melt/recycle/junk the rest. With
systems that stripped down, when they're fried, they're *really* fried
-- to the point of being worthless.
---
Being Sun Servers they were junk before they started. oh well, someone
needs to keep P/C geeks off the unemployment line.
David Boyes wrote:
So who gets the broken stuff? Is it cannibalized for parts or should
I
start raiding the dumpsters at Google?
--
On May 5, 2006, at 12:42 PM, Alan Altmark wrote:
The heat from all the servers has altered the climate and raised
the ocean
levels. All of our homes are on stilts.
Or, they could choose some form of virtualization and save us all.
(He
Who Must Not Be Annoyed says that z is not the answer for Go
On Fri, 5 May 2006, Adam Thornton wrote:
> On May 5, 2006, at 12:42 PM, Alan Altmark wrote:
> > The heat from all the servers has altered the climate and raised
> > the ocean
> > levels. All of our homes are on stilts.
> >
> > Or, they could choose some form of virtualization and save us all.
> >
> -Original Message-
> From: shogunx [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 2:28 PM
> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
> Subject: Re: Google out of capacity?
>
> On Fri, 5 May 2006, Adam Thornton wrote:
>
> > On May 5, 2006, at 12:42 PM, Alan Altm
On Fri, 5 May 2006, Little, Chris wrote:
> > -Original Message-
> > From: shogunx [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 2:28 PM
> > To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
> > Subject: Re: Google out of capacity?
> >
> > On Fri, 5 May 200
The Old Ones! The Old Ones come!
Or is it the Deep Ones? I'm a little rusty. Anyway, I'm not moving to
Innsmouth.
Jon
I for one welcome our new aquatic masters.
--
For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access ins
On Friday, 05/05/2006 at 03:28 AST, shogunx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Seems like someone would have figured out a way to recover the energy in
> the form of electricity from that all that heat already.
Indeed, but that would have interfered with the energy production
facilities' profits (it dro
On May 5, 2006, at 2:42 PM, Jon Brock wrote:
The Old Ones! The Old Ones come!
Or is it the Deep Ones? I'm a little rusty. Anyway, I'm not
moving to Innsmouth.
In Soviet Russia^W^WGlobal Warming, Innsmouth moves to YOU.
Adam
Not a chance... To roughly translate the 2nd law of thermodynamics:
- You can't win
- You can't break even
- You can't leave the game
Sigh...
Lee
shogunx wrote:
Seems like someone would have figured out a way to recover the energy in
the form of electricity from that all that heat already.
:
LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
global.net> cc:
Sent by: Linux on 390Subject: Re: [LINUX-390]
Google out of capacity?
Port
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
EDU>
On Fri, 5 May 2006, Lee Stewart wrote:
> Not a chance... To roughly translate the 2nd law of thermodynamics:
> - You can't win
> - You can't break even
> - You can't leave the game
I didn't say recover ALL the energy. Just some of that lost to heat.
Like ducting the exhaust from the noc into th
ST.EDU
cc
05/05/2006 03:28 PM
Subject
Re: Google
out of ca
When they retired our last water-cooled mainframe I broached the idea to our
management of turning the tank into a hot tub, but they wouldn't go for it.
Jon
Do I even want to know WHY you had a Shark disk subsytem in you house?
then againwho am I to talk, I have a 9672 shell in my garage
0 Port cc
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
IST.EDU> Subject
Re: Google out of capacity?
05/05/2006 03:28
PM
Pleas
cc
> 05/05/2006 03:28 PM
>
> Subject
> Re:
> Google out of capacity?
> Pl
cc
> 05/05/2006 03:28 PM
>
> Subject
> Re:
> Google out of capacity?
> Please respond to
>
Subject
> Re: Google out of capacity?
>
> 05/05/2006 03:28
> PM
>
>
> Please respond to
> Linux on 390 Port
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> IST.EDU>
>
> Or is it the Deep Ones? I'm a little rusty. Anyway, I'm not moving
to
> Innsmouth.
No one moves to Innsmouth.
It comes for you.
David Boyes
Sine Nomine Associates
--
For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access ins
> > then againwho am I to talk, I have a 9672 shell in my garage I use a
> > toolbox.
> > shogunx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I've been using a DEC PDP-11/34 shell as a stand-up toolbox (on wheels!) since
the late '80's. Also, the removable disk drives (model ???) converted
nicely to r
I have a Storagetek tape silo robot arm that I hope to have mounted on my wall
one day:
"Yeah, that was one of the early model Terminators . . . T-1000, I think. It
was a royal pain to kill. Some woman helped me -- last name of Connor or
something."
Jon
I've been using a DEC PDP-11/34 sh
On Fri, 5 May 2006, Kim Colwell wrote:
> > > then againwho am I to talk, I have a 9672 shell in my garage I use a
> > > toolbox.
> > > shogunx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> I've been using a DEC PDP-11/34 shell as a stand-up toolbox (on wheels!)
> since the late '80's. Also, the remov
So, is "surpressed" a combination of "surpassed" and "suppressed" ?
K
-Original Message-
From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Alan Altmark
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 3:46 PM
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Google out of cap
In my thinking, a lot depends upon how well the target
server/tributary/consolidator workflow software can multithread in that
loosely-coupled framework.
Note that I'm *not* particularly knowledgable, all right? But I'm tossing
out my opinions anyway, perhaps I'll get some laughs.
A mainframe's
On 5/5/06, John Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
In my thinking, a lot depends upon how well the target
server/tributary/consolidator workflow software can multithread in that
loosely-coupled framework.
Note that I'm *not* particularly knowledgable, all right? But I'm tossing
out my opinions
Yu Safin wrote:
It seems we covered the CPU side pretty well, but what about the DISK
side. are they using SAN?
I think someone mentioned earlier on that the disk is in each box but
later someone else mention that it is not but external.
wouldn't a lot of the same arguments apply to the stor
ay, May 11, 2006 10:16 PM
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Fw: [LINUX-390] Google out of capacity?
Yu Safin wrote:
>>
> It seems we covered the CPU side pretty well, but what about the DISK
> side. are they using SAN?
> I think someone mentioned earlier on that the disk i
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