Dear Alexander and all
As I have not quite had time to write up a description of
Charles Besnainou's Spiramid strings (I should be able to do so
soon). I would just like to return briefly to the etymology question,
and explain what I mean by safer or unsafe etymology:
I must
On Sep 4, 2008, at 9:39 PM, David Tayler wrote:
Thanks for Sean's insights.
Ack, and what a muddle it was, too.
I should be clear and be mighty thankful to the many lute historians
who have made all this possible. Without them we'd be missing an
amazing amount of music, context and
From: David Tayler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks for Sean's insights.
The etymology of lute cannot, of course, be known as a cerainty,
however the most likely explanation is that it is derived from the
early medieval arabic word for twig or bent stick.
Many scholars have erroneously used modern
I think axe is a great example, if one can mentally remove any images
of Jack Nicholson.
dt
At 07:32 AM 9/5/2008, you wrote:
From: David Tayler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks for Sean's insights.
The etymology of lute cannot, of course, be known as a cerainty,
however the most likely explanation is
Thanks for Sean's insights.
The etymology of lute cannot, of course, be known as a cerainty,
however the most likely explanation is that it is derived from the
early medieval arabic word for twig or bent stick.
Many scholars have erroneously used modern arabic false cognates. The
naming
I'm not sure what made you bring up the tar, as the site shows him as a
master of some variety of bouzouki, presumably the Kurdish equivalent...
Nor am I sure about Roman's enthousiastic endorsement of your suggestion
1) tar is the Farsi for cord or wire. By extension it is the name for the
Michael Thames mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
It is a well know fact, in the meetings that took place under Constantine
in the 6th century, they threw out the original Christian doctrine of
reincarnation. Etc.
Emperor Constantine lived at the beginning of the 4th century and made
Christian
do - a deer, a female deer
re- a drop of ...
common' everybody, join in!
and thus i made...a small vihuela from the shell of a creepy crawly... - Don
Gonzalo de Guerrero (1512), Historias de la Conquista del Mayab by Fra Joseph
of San Buenaventura. go to:
Easter
Sunday.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: Mathias Rösel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 3:35 AM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
Michael Thames mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
It is a well know
Michael,
thank you for the link. Books like this are very useful and should be
spread to the interested public. I, for one, have ever since belonged to
the interested public.
However it's sad for me to see that some people try to teach others or
project their prejudices (sometimes even their
-8th c. c.e. specimen kept in the Shosoin in Nara) was built extremely
sturdy and quite unlike real lutes.
Regards,
danyel
- Original Message -
From: Mathias Rösel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
FYI
As you take refuge, once again, to offensive language for lack of
pausible arguments I quit discussion with you and your nonsense. Ask
accomplished Arabists about your 'ain - ghain rubbish. Get a life,
buddy.
danyel mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
Leather is tanned and elastic and thus
As you take refuge, once again, to offensive language for lack of
pausible arguments I quit discussion with you and your nonsense. Ask
accomplished Arabists about your 'ain - ghain rubbish. Get a life,
buddy.
As Americans say-
No pain, no ghain.
But it is interesting to see lutes as foreign
Leather is tanned and elastic and thus unsuitable for use as a membrane.
Really?
How come it is always used so by the cultures that lack in parchment
technology?
Fretless banjos, drums etc, etc.
RT
--
http://polyhymnion.org/torban
To get on or off this list see list information at
- Original Message -
From: Mathias Rösel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 5:14 AM
Subject: Re: parchment, rwd and ch'in (Re: LUTE-etymology)
As you take refuge, once again, to offensive language for lack of
pausible arguments I quit
]
To: Michael Thames [EMAIL PROTECTED];
Lute net
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 12:14 AM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
I am not a big fan of a culture that was based
on slavery until 50
years
ago. And my opinion is not helped by my
unbelievably nasty Tibetan
downstairs
4:33 AM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
Michael,
thank you for the link. Books like this are very useful and should be
spread to the interested public. I, for one, have ever since belonged to
the interested public.
However it's sad for me to see that some people try to teach others or
project
; Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 4:06 AM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
This thread is so incredibly embarrassing and disgusting, I think I have
to
throw up.
The amount of rubbish spread out here blows my mind.
Didn't I say that once before, you people are disgracing
: Saturday, March 26, 2005 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
Today we have this thing called capitalism, you might be familiar with
this
concept, if not I'll explain it to you.
In theory, if you make a better product than the other guy, people
buy
it, or they don't, depending
they keep their activities secret. Of course,
we have digressed from lutes.
Best,
Marion
-Original Message-
From: Mathias Rösel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Mar 24, 2005 1:13 PM
To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
Dr. Marion Ceruti mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
All
Well, the advantage of that thread is that I learned a few things about
the oud and even the Indian sitar, a late invention apparently, modelled
after the persian sehtar barely a couple of hundred years ago.
But from all other possible instruments, the one the closest to the
renaissance lute
I know many Lamas, believe me, none of them have any interest in reading
the gospel according to Mathew.
They make good pets, but chew up tabulatures.
RT
Only, if your orientation points to the South.
My orientation includes neither lamas, nor llamas
RT
--
I have a very good friend who happens to be East Indian, and is a Captain
for Singapore Airlines. He and his entire family are Christians from
southern India that go back for generations.
Evangelical missionaries have been active in Kerala for a few centuries.
RT
Yea, what else is new!
This is thinking within the box, with all due respect. This is western
mans perspective isn't it? That monasteries evolved out of a material
benefit, rather than spiritual benefit.
To think that a culture ( India) that all of Europe and the rest of the
world was seeking desperately to do
]
To: Michael Thames [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
Roman, another puzzle for you to ponder in your dismissal of eastern
influence on the west. The Chinese and Indians have what is considered
the
oldest system of medicine known to man
]
To: Michael Thames [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Lutelist
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Mathias Rösel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
I have a very good friend who happens to be East Indian, and is a
Captain
for Singapore Airlines. He and his entire family
: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Michael Thames [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Alain Veylit
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; LUTE-LIST lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
This is thinking within the box, with all due respect. This is western
mans perspective isn't
Roman, I'm beginning to get the impression that you are a total western
materialist. God save us!
Michael Thames
Eurocentrism does not preclude spirituality
The only problem with that is you live in New York!
Michael Thames
It has the best masala dosa outside the Subcontinent, confirmed by
I have a very good friend who happens to be East Indian, and is a Captain
for Singapore Airlines. He and his entire family are Christians from
southern India that go back for generations.
Evangelical missionaries have been active in Kerala for a few centuries.
RT
Yea, what else is new!
I am not a big fan of a culture that was based on slavery until 50 years
ago. And my opinion is not helped by my unbelievably nasty Tibetan
downstairs neighbors.
RT
Are you speaking of your comrades, or the Tibetan's?
If it's the Tibetans you've been watching to many Chinese propaganda
-
From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Michael Thames [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Lute net
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
I am not a big fan of a culture that was based on slavery until 50
years
ago. And my opinion is not helped by my
. Michael has made a bit of a treatise on the Chinese lute - but at
the same time many on this list have said my flat back isn't a lute. No
problem there, just approaching etymology from the front end
The Chinese and Tibetan lutes both have pair shaped bodies with long
necks, with goat skin
- Original Message -
From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Michael Thames [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dr. Marion Ceruti
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; LUTE-LIST lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Jon Murphy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
++In Western music
]
To: Michael Thames [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dr. Marion Ceruti
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; LUTE-LIST lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Jon Murphy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
Indians, Persians (and Greeks) all belong to the Indo-European group
commonly known
Roman Turovsky mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
brought back with him the Buddhist traditions of a monastatic order
and compassion, which took hold centuries later in Christendom.
I do not recall the Redeemer advocating monasticism, but Mathias will surely
clarify the issue.
not exactly
Murphy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
Not necessarily. Mediterranean basin had its own lutes very early, way
before there was any contact with the Far East.
RT
I think we have to rethink this whole concept of one particular time
Most country's and well established cultures have a musical
instrument associated with it... US of A a steel string guitar, Middle
east , the Oud, India a sitar, Germany a 13 course lute, France an 11
course lute, Italy a 6 course lute, Spain a Spanish guitar, and through the
Gypsy's ( of
]
To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
Roman Turovsky mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
brought back with him the Buddhist traditions of a monastatic order
and compassion, which took hold centuries later in Christendom.
I do
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
Most country's and well established cultures have a musical
instrument associated with it... US of A a steel string guitar, Middle
east , the Oud, India a sitar, Germany a 13 course lute, France an 11
]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
Not necessarily. Mediterranean basin had its own lutes very early, way
before there was any contact with the Far East.
RT
I think we have to rethink this whole concept of one particular time and
place where East meets
that practice various forms of contemplation
similar to what goes on in monastaries.
Marion
-Original Message-
From: Michael Thames [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Mar 24, 2005 11:25 AM
To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu,
Mathias Rösel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
Roman
I am only aware of two major religions in the world that have a monastic
order
there is still another, i. e. the Shiite part of the world of Islam,
which has quite a few orders (from several very ancient Darwish orders
to little extremist orders like Naqshibandy)
the question is simple
Dr. Marion Ceruti mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
All religions include people who practice contemplation as a lifestyle.
that certainly depends on what qualifies as contemplation. Five minutes
remembering per day enough?
The Muslims and Jews have kept these practices relatively hidden for
. Marion Ceruti
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; LUTE-LIST lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Jon Murphy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
Not necessarily. Mediterranean basin had its own lutes very early, way
before there was any contact with the Far East.
RT
I
Actually, it even looks like the Arabs may have invented tablature: look
at http://trumpet.sdsu.edu/M345/Arab_Music1.html - apparently quite an
excellent site:
Here is the bit about tablature:
An early contributor was Ibn al Munajjim (died 912) who left us a
description of an established
-
From: Alain Veylit [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Michael Thames [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dr. Marion Ceruti
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; LUTE-LIST lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Jon Murphy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
I am a bit lost
Alain Veylit mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
I am a bit lost in this thread: I don't know if there is any evidence -
let alone convincing - that Jesus travelled to India
that rumour was brought up by the Ahmadiya sect during the 19th century.
They had him travel to the region of Cashmere
There is a Buddhist monastery in Laddak near the Kashmir valley in north
India with the entire life of Christ written in Tibetan
the entire life of Christ, then, must be the text of a Gospel? I know no
other narrative that contains Christ's life, but perhaps you do? I
wonder how they
: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dr.
Marion Ceruti
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; LUTE-LIST
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Jon Murphy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
I am a bit lost in this thread: I don't know if
there is any evidence -
let alone
@cs.dartmouth.edu; Jon Murphy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
Not necessarily. Mediterranean basin had its own lutes very early, way
before there was any contact with the Far East.
RT
I think we have to rethink this whole concept
Actually, it even looks like the Arabs may have invented tablature: look
at http://trumpet.sdsu.edu/M345/Arab_Music1.html -
The 10th century Iraqi vessel actually depicts a dutar (a proto-kobza),
rather than an oud, and the musicial has mongoloid features, he could easily
be a Seljuk, Turkmen
]
Cc: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dr.
Marion Ceruti
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; LUTE-LIST
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Jon Murphy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
I am a bit lost in this thread: I don't know if
there is any evidence -
let alone
This is thinking within the box, with all due respect. This is western
mans perspective isn't it? That monasteries evolved out of a material
benefit, rather than spiritual benefit.
To think that a culture ( India) that all of Europe and the rest of the
world was seeking desperately to do
I am tempted to think that, while there is clear and documented evidence
of Greek influence on Buddhist art and civilization in Northern India,
very little went the other way, not because the Indians were not
civilized,
There is absolutely no reason to pursue anything cultural after a pair or
Well, the advantage of that thread is that I learned a few things about
the oud and even the Indian sitar, a late invention apparently, modelled
after the persian sehtar barely a couple of hundred years ago.
But from all other possible instruments, the one the closest to the
renaissance lute is
: Thursday, March 24, 2005 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
Alain Veylit mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
I am a bit lost in this thread: I don't know if there is any evidence -
let alone convincing - that Jesus travelled to India
that rumour was brought up by the Ahmadiya sect during the 19th
-
From: Alain Veylit [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Michael Thames [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dr.
Marion Ceruti
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; LUTE-LIST
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Jon Murphy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Alain Veylit [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Michael Thames
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; LUTE-LIST lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
I am a bit lost in this thread: I don't
PROTECTED]; Michael Thames
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Alain Veylit [EMAIL PROTECTED]; LUTE-LIST
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
i thought it was thomas who made it to india -
probably brought his uke.
- bill
Did Juerg Meili go with him?
RT
western legends have Thomas travel to India, and Indian Christian
traditions claims the same. Which by no means is a guarantee that this
is historically documented.
I have a very good friend who happens to be East Indian, and is a Captain
for Singapore Airlines. He and his entire family are
i thought it was thomas who made it to india -
probably brought his uke.
- bill
Did Juerg Meili go with him?
Who the hell is Muerg Jeili?
Michael Thames
Juerg Meili is Thomas' duet partner.
RT
To get on or off this list see list information at
Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Michael Thames [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Alain Veylit
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; LUTE-LIST lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
This is thinking
!
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Michael Thames [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Lutelist
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Mathias Rösel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
western
that is what some Buddhist teachers said, indeed, but much later, i.e.
during the 19th century when some single Lamas read the Gospel according
to Matthew (particularly the sermon on the mountain) for the first
time.
I know many Lamas, believe me, none of them have any interest in reading
: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Michael Thames [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Lutelist
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Mathias Rösel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
that is what some Buddhist teachers said, indeed, but much later, i.e.
during the 19th
beginning of a word. In txt-format, Greek characters are not possible,
so the spiritus has to be transcribed, and there you are: halieutika,
fishing tools.
Well said Mathias,
Thank you. I confess that my studies of the Greek language were many years
ago, so I didn't have the word for that
Jon Murphy mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
With many of you I have difficulty finding the familiar Greek LEUTIKA as
my Greek dictionary uses Greek characters. Is this lambda-epsilon
(eta)-upsilon-tau-iota-kappa-alpha?
alpha (spritus asper)- lambda - iota - epsilon - ypsilon - tau - iota -
@cs.dartmouth.edu; Roman Turovsky
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
With many of you I have difficulty finding the familiar Greek LEUTIKA as
my Greek dictionary uses Greek characters. Is this lambda-epsilon
(eta)-upsilon-tau-iota-kappa-alpha?. And what
++In Western music, the emphasis is on harmonic development,
that has been so from, say, 1600 to 1900. Before that, emphasis was on
horizontal moves. And 20th century witnessed the development of serial
music and its further branches in Europe and the Americas.
but in Eastern music the
-Original Message-
From: Mathias Rösel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Mar 23, 2005 8:07 AM
To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
++In Western music, the emphasis is on harmonic development,
that has been so from, say, 1600 to 1900. Before that, emphasis
asleep listening to overspun bass
strings!
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: Dr. Marion Ceruti [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mathias Rösel [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Lutelist
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
-
From: Dr. Marion Ceruti [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Michael Thames [EMAIL PROTECTED]; LUTE-LIST
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Jon
Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
-Original Message-
From: Michael Thames
PROTECTED]; LUTE-LIST
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Jon
Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
-Original Message-
From: Michael Thames [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Mar 23, 2005 6:34 AM
To: LUTE-LIST lute
You can go out of your gourd listening to sitar music :).
Not to mention that Mathias falls asleep listening to overspun bass
strings!
yes, that is the habit with us jinns :) when basses don't stop ringing.
--
Best wishes,
Mathias
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
and
brilliance shine through. Like shimmering colors of light on the surface of
the oceans depths.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: Mathias Rösel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: LUTE
10:58 AM
To: Dr. Marion Ceruti [EMAIL PROTECTED],
LUTE-LIST lute@cs.dartmouth.edu,
Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Jon Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
+Our lutes were derived from Arabian lutes, which in turn seem to have
been influenced by Chinese
i just read an article recently which states that the
domestication of pigs happened at several times in
human development and in several locations. before,
it was thought that pigs became domesticated at one
time, in one location and were taken with us on our
migrations.
i personally like the
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Dr. Marion Ceruti [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Michael Thames
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; LUTE-LIST lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Roman
Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Jon Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
i just read an article recently which states
]
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
i just read an article recently which states that the
domestication of pigs happened at several times in
human development and in several locations. before,
it was thought that pigs became domesticated at one
time, in one location and were taken with us on our
++In Western music, the emphasis is on harmonic development, but in
Eastern music the emphasis is on melodic development
Yes, but which came first? who influenced who? I'm not a musicologist but
reason would suggest that early Indian ragas set the stage for the oud,
which in turn set the
Yes, this is true, Bill. An invention that is about to occur
frequently happens in more than one place around
the same time as the technology, social structure,
etc. that supports it is ready.
'An invention that is about to occur' - it precedes its own existence?
Just like Marion's lute
-Original Message-
From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Mar 23, 2005 4:11 PM
To: LUTE-LIST lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
Yes, this is true, Bill. An invention that is about to occur
frequently happens in more than one place around
the same time
in the mind of the inventor. This is what precedes the
existence of an invention.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Mar 23, 2005 3:32 PM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: Re: Re: LUTE-etymology
Yes, this is true, Bill. An invention that is about to occur
frequently happens
comes to mind, a total accident.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: Dr. Marion Ceruti [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: Re: LUTE-etymology
It could be an invention
. Persian *rwd* (String, stringed
instrument).
Best wishes,
danyel
- Original Message -
From: Mathias Rösel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
nope, it cannot, unfortunately. In Arabic, al-'oud (al
-
From: danyel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Mar 22, 2005 1:52 AM
To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
FYI, there are no references to leather soundboards. Parchment, yes; but
not on lutes but on the qanbus/qopuz type, quite distinct and in existence
parallel to real lutes up until
to recreate
such an instrument?
-Original Message-
From: danyel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Mar 22, 2005 1:52 AM
To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
FYI, there are no references to leather
soundboards. Parchment, yes; but
not on lutes but on the qanbus
FYI, there are no references to leather soundboards. Parchment, yes;
well, there are. Take a look into good old Oswald Koerte's thesis. He
cites related Arabic authors. And, okay, parchment does not qualify as
leather to you, obviously. To me, it does.
The word al-'ûd (applied to the lute) has
FYI, there are no references to leather soundboards. Parchment, yes;
well, there are. Take a look into good old Oswald Koerte's thesis. He
cites related Arabic authors. And, okay, parchment does not qualify as
leather to you, obviously. To me, it does.
As it should, to most people. Or at
Well, as a native English speaker, I would say leather definitely does
not include parchment (even though they're made from the same raw
material). Depending on the speaker, it may not even include skin (from
a dead animal as opposed to on a living animal) which is another likely
lute (in the
http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=parchment+leather
-Original Message-
From: Doctor Oakroot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 9:20 AM
To: Lutelist
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
Well, as a native English speaker, I would say leather definitely does
Subject: RE: LUTE-etymology
http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=parchment+leather
-Original Message-
From: Doctor Oakroot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 9:20 AM
To: Lutelist
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
Well, as a native English speaker, I would say leather
- Original Message -
From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: LUTE-LIST lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
There is a fascinating discussion on the etymology of LUTE on the
French
lute-list. In a nutshell: not only the Greek
There is a fascinating discussion on the etymology of LUTE on the French
lute-list. In a nutshell:
not only the Greek provenance of the word is no longer discountable, but
limiting oneself to Arabic provenance is beginning to look ludicrous.
The messages can be found on Yahoo-Groups.
RT
Roman Turovsky mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
There is a fascinating discussion on the etymology of LUTE on the French
lute-list. In a nutshell: not only the Greek provenance of the word is no
longer discountable, but limiting oneself to Arabic provenance is beginning
to look ludicrous.
Yes Roman,
if you could summarize...
Best wishes,
Paolo
Roman Turovsky mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
There is a fascinating discussion on the etymology of LUTE on the French
lute-list. In a nutshell: not only the Greek provenance of the word is no
longer discountable, but
What Greek word(s) is a candidate for the etymology of LUTE?
There is a fascinating discussion on the etymology of LUTE on the French
lute-list. In a nutshell:
not only the Greek provenance of the word is no longer discountable, but
limiting oneself to Arabic provenance is beginning to look
There is a fascinating discussion on the etymology of LUTE on the French
lute-list. In a nutshell: not only the Greek provenance of the word is no
longer discountable, but limiting oneself to Arabic provenance is beginning
to look ludicrous. The messages can be found on Yahoo-Groups.
Paolo, you are perfectly capable too.
RT
Yes Roman,
if you could summarize...
Best wishes,
Paolo
Roman Turovsky mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
There is a fascinating discussion on the etymology of LUTE on the French
lute-list. In a nutshell: not only the Greek provenance of the word is
If LEUTIKA is a familiar Greek word, I wonder why the only online
reference I can find to it is the name of some guy who got murdered. I did
find a lot of words for ships and boats in Greek - none significantly
similar to LUTE though.
How old is this word? Could it be an independent borrowing
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