Subject: Civiol's edition of Visee theorbo music
I can no longer find the web site where I got this. My question is: What
is
it, exactly?
The title page says Pieces pour theorbe sur differents modes De Robert De
Visee. Edite par Richard Civiol.
But in smaller print at the bottom, just
Dear Stewart,
Thank you so much for your kind and informative reply.
I am an absolute novice to the theorbo, and do not
want to be off to a false start.
Your analysis makes perfect musical sense.
Tom
--- Stewart McCoy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Dear Tom,
I have been away from home
: avoid using the same digit twice in
succession.
Best wishes,
Stewart McCoy.
- Original Message -
From: Tom Leoni [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:30 PM
Subject: Theorbo arpeggio patterns
I have recently acquired some theorbo music (Kapsberger
In a message dated 8/1/04 10:28:08 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Sorry for ruining your argument with mere empiricism, but I'm looking at
the
facsimile of Toccata Prima as I write. Every chord with a arpeggio symbol
has exactly four notes. Four shalt thou play, and the number of the
counting
Piccinini essentially gives the same instructions as Kapsberger does in his
Book 3 (3, 4, 5, 6 note chords) but always ends on the highest note even if
the arpeggio is not strictly ascending..
But he also has a sign for a different arpeggio pattern. For a 4 note
arpeggio pattern he puts the
Sorry for ruining your argument with mere empiricism, but I'm looking at
the
facsimile of Toccata Prima as I write. Every chord with a arpeggio symbol
has exactly four notes.
You must be looking in a different place. In Libro Quarto, 1640, Toccata
Prima begins in the middle of page 6. The
Richard and Howard - thank you for the copious amount
of information you have dug up for this debate. I am
glad I asked the question.
What it essentially boils down to is this. In a
4-note chord pattern, Kapsberger did not use his
ring-finger, as he himself seems to point out.
So, if the
(First of all, I'll ignore all the Gogolesque talk
about missing thumbs...)
t4, i2, m1, i3 makes perfect sense. This way,
the arpeggio ascends from bass to treble in the
correct order. However, what if the arpeggio does not
involve these strings? In that case because of the
re-entrant
.
Richard Yates
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: Theorbo arpeggio patterns
(First of all, I'll ignore all the Gogolesque talk
about missing thumbs...)
t4, i2, m1, i3 makes perfect sense. This way
]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Lute list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: Theorbo arpeggio patterns
I transcribed a few Kapsberger pieces for the GFA Soundboard a few years
ago. Part of that article said: Among Kapsberger's works, the toccatas
show the boldest
I wrote:
I believe Kapsberger's instructions were to use the index finger on the
fourth note, since the last note of the arpeggio is on the third or fourth
course, even when it isn't the highest note.
Chris Wilke, wisely considering me an unreliable source, writes:
t4, i2, m1, i3 makes
In the
original manuscript the arpeggiation pattern is not indicated and so
this is
left to the performer to invent.
As I noted in another post that I haven't seen on the list yet, Kapsberger
gave examples of how to arpeggiate in the introductory part of the book,
so
the arpeggiation is
Richard Yates writes:
You assume that Kapsberger's example implies that he considered it to be
mandatory rather than just to illustrate the sequence that would give an
ascending chord.
He certainly didn't say his set of examples was optional, and it doesn't
illustrate the sequence that would
Tom Leoni wrote
Someone told me
Someone? You're listening to Someone? What does Someone know? If this
guy's so smart, how come he doesn't even have a real name?
that Kapsberger's preferred 4-note arpeggio pattern was: t4 i2
m1 t3 :||: (using the first 4 strings as an example). I find
I am looking for a professional-level teacher in the DC area who can give me
occasional guidance on playing the theorbo. I am in Alexandria, VA but I am willing
to drive a couple hours to get good instruction.
Even someone who is not local but travels to the area would be good - we can see
Dear all,
I´m in Bad Kissingen (Germany - 1,5 hours from Frankfurt) for a concert
but unfortunately my theorbo is brocken.
Can anybody contact me to provide me with a theorbo? The concert is on
sunday 4.00pm.
Thank you very much in advance...
Marco Pesci
Hello all,
I need to bring my theorbo (a big one) to the Berkeley Festival this
summer. Can anyone give me some advice for flying with one of these
things?
Which airlines are the most instrument friendly (within US)?
Gate check?
Pay extra for oversize luggage?
The theorbo is insured, but should
Parnasus Avenue Baroque from last night's PT at
http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1836319
Greg--
Greg M. Silverman wrote:
Parnasus Avenue Baroque from last night's PT at
http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1836319
Greg--
Sorry, that should be Parnassus Avenue (as in the street in Frisco)
Greg--
:
Greetings all,
Is anyone familiar with the works of luthier Colin Everett of Ottawa,
Canada and the instruments he made during the '70s? Also, is this
instrument listed here at eBay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=3716162191category=623
really a theorbo? Or is it what is often
courses. This is strung something like an archlute. I doubt if
the pattern is based on a historical model, but it probably would work as
an archlute.
It did have the appearance of an archlute, and to me seemed as if it should have had a
swan neck. But as it was listed as a theorbo
Greetings all!
Didn't know if anyone was looking or if this is even any good, but here's
the listing:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=3716162191category=623
item=3716162191category=623
Have fun!
Garry
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I might consider it as an instrument for a beginner to learn continuo if the
price stays low.
Beware the string length. Some swan-neck lutes have fingerboard lengths of
more than 70 cm, which does not work well in G tuning unless the pitch is
Craig,
This link might give you some info.
http://www.civilization.ca/arts/opus/opus420e.html
Mike
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 7:48 AM
Subject: Theorbo???
Greetings all,
Is anyone familiar with the works
Sterling,
I'd love to see what you've come up with, if you
want to share pics. Do you know where one can find
info on the Goldt lute? Was this actually a common
period solution?
Chris
--- sterling price [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi all-For several years I have had a semi tone
same questions, and same desire of seeing pictures of the device !
Manolo Laguillo
Barcelona
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sterling,
I'd love to see what you've come up with, if you
want to share pics. Do you know where one can find
info on the Goldt lute? Was this actually a common
period
that is internal to the lever. The
problem with that for the lute/theorbo is that the lever is very sensitive
to the height of the string above the pin block. The harp has no nut at the
tuning end, the strings run over individual grooved bridge pins which can
be adjusted in or out to match the level
Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tony Chalkley [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
Michael Stitt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: technical problems on lute-theorbo (+theorbo) Att: Chris
Just saw this thread with the mention of the harp device for changing
at the wrest
pin end. The koto-ji propostions are at the bridge end and it is easy to
see that they are workable. Try as I might, I cannot see anywhere on my
theorbo that I could attach a harp mechanism, short of building a sort of
gantry out from the neck which would be out of reach, or having holes
of the theorbo. You would only need enough
pressure to make a node. I just tried this with the handle of a
magnifying glass. It works! This is too easy.
Michael,
Just curious about the harp-like device that Tim
Crawford mentioned to you for raising a diapason up a
1/2 step. Would you mind
it wouldn't
even get in the way. It wouldn't need to attach to anything. You
would put felt or something similar on the bottom so as not to
scratch the surface of the theorbo. You would only need enough
pressure to make a node. I just tried this with the handle of a
magnifying glass. It works
but I've used a pencil at a distance of half a tone from the bridge from my theorbo,
under the strings, and almost touching them.
I use something very similar to alter pitch of the bourdons of my hurdy gurdy.
The instrument being
very sensitive to change in string tension, it's better
used
on kotos. Since it would be between the strings and
belly it wouldn't
even get in the way. It wouldn't need to attach to
anything. You
would put felt or something similar on the bottom so
as not to
scratch the surface of the theorbo. You would only
need enough
pressure to make
Dear lutenetters,
Here is a reply from a series of questions which I (privately) put to
Arto about converting a lute into a theorbo.
Since it is on a subject which should be of general interest, we have
decided to open it to you all.
I will be most interested in any contributions that you may
Dear lutenetters,
Here is a reply from a series of questions which I
(privately) put to
Arto about converting a lute into a theorbo.
Since so many lutes were converted to so many
different configurations historicaly, this sort of
thing seems like a good way to learn more about lute
on their own? I have a
14-course theorbo (only six on the fingerboard) and
I'm getting a little annoyed at having to take the
instrument off, stand up and re-tune if I need an F#
or G# consistently in a piece. This can be especially
distracting to other players in tight quarters.
I wonder
Martyn wrote:
- Castaldi can be played on a large(ish) instrument eg my A theorbo
at 90cm fingered string length;
This sounds quite strange: I've recorded the Castaldi book some years ago;
my theorbo has a diapason of 81cm, and my hands are quite large. I think
that it's rather
to instruments tuned to a nominal a'.
Best wishes,
Stewart.
- Original Message -
From: David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Stewart McCoy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Lute Net [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: MORE THAN 14 course German theorbo?
Dear
heard someone doing it and I think I played it once, but I preferred the
Baroque lute), and why not a theorbo? It's strange for Bach writing
something which had something to be changed to make it playable, but it's
also true that many of his works are the music, so the instrument is just
a means
On Wednesday, January 7, 2004, at 06:56 AM, Stewart McCoy wrote:
To answer your question, from what I know about archlutes, they were
normally tuned to a nominal g', but there is also evidence which
points to instruments tuned to a nominal a'.
Thanks, Stewart. The reason for my question,
Dear Arto,
the problem is that there are people around not so lucky as I am (and as
obviously you are) which *have to* play the BWVs ...
I share your feelings regarding the Bach works in so far as the effort
you need to invest to get acceptable results is too high. And they are
not among the
The piece in question (BWV 995) is the only one (apart from the short
prelude BWV 999) clearly dedicated to the Lute.
The rest could have been to the Lautenwerk (which would have a low g)
but this one most likely really was rearranged for the lute.
The compromise - as I already said - would be
theorbo?
The piece in question (BWV 995) is the only one (apart from the short
prelude BWV 999) clearly dedicated to the Lute.
The rest could have been to the Lautenwerk (which would have a low g)
but this one most likely really was rearranged for the lute.
The compromise - as I already said
]
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: MORE THAN 14 course German theorbo?
The piece in question (BWV 995) is the only one (apart from the short
prelude BWV 999) clearly dedicated to the Lute.
The rest could have been to the Lautenwerk (which would have a low g
course German theorbo?
The piece in question (BWV 995) is the only one (apart from the
short prelude BWV 999) clearly dedicated to the Lute. The rest
could have been to the Lautenwerk (which would have a low g) but
this one most likely really was rearranged for the lute
I can only second Sterling's opinion. This lute has a wonderful darkish
timbre and carries/projects quite remarkably. I have heard both his old
lute (which may have lost a bit of its original power over the years)
and the brand-new Tomlinson lute in comparison and the new lute sounds
quite
I can only second Sterling's opinion. This lute has a wonderful darkish
timbre and carries/projects quite remarkably. I have heard both his old
lute (which may have lost a bit of its original power over the years)
and the brand-new Tomlinson lute in comparison and the new lute sounds
quite
Yes. The page says why.
RT
Interesting. Is there any advantage in tuning this instrument over a swan
neck?
M.
Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I note Bob Barto plays something like a three-pegbox swan neck theorbo lute.
Is this a modern adaption or based on a historical - period
would have much appreciated.
Donatella
http://web.tiscali.it/awebd
- Original Message -
From: Thomas Schall
To: Howard Posner
Cc: Michael Stitt ; Miles Dempster
; Lute Net
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: MORE THAN 14 course German theorbo?
The piece
/awebd
- Original Message -
From: Thomas Schall
To: Howard Posner
Cc: Michael Stitt ; Miles Dempster
; Lute Net
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: MORE THAN 14 course German theorbo
:51 AM
Subject: Re: MORE THAN 14 course German theorbo?
The piece in question (BWV 995) is the only one (apart from the short
prelude BWV 999) clearly dedicated to the Lute.
The rest could have been to the Lautenwerk (which would have a low g)
but this one most likely really
have much appreciated.
Donatella
http://web.tiscali.it/awebd
- Original Message -
From: Thomas Schall
To: Howard Posner
Cc: Michael Stitt ; Miles Dempster
; Lute Net
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: MORE THAN 14 course German theorbo
: Michael Stitt ; Miles Dempster
; Lute Net
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: MORE THAN 14 course German theorbo?
The piece in question (BWV 995) is the only one
Net
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: MORE THAN 14 course German theorbo?
The piece in question (BWV 995) is the only one (apart from the short
prelude BWV 999) clearly dedicated to the Lute.
The rest could have been to the Lautenwerk (which would have a low g
Thomas Schall at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The difficulty could mean many things: technical difficulty or musical
difficulty. Usually the works by Bach were regarded as musically
difficult - difficult to understand, difficult to listen to them etc.
old-fashioned.
Were regarded by whom, other
Which Clavier-Ubung? I assume No.3 - Goldberg variations? In which case, technically
difficult indeed. I understand the Tocattas for keyboard are thought to have been
written on clavichord (Here I refer not to the organ works) are the closest we have to
Bach the improvisor - how the man
', it becomes a mouthful. I am
asked: `What instrument do you play?' I play a 14
course German theorbo, is usually my reply. But
then explaining that each course has two
`doubled-up' strings but the first two are single,
making a sum total of twenty-six NOT twenty-eight
strings
course?
The ambiguity and terminology of description for this lute has always
been a bit of problem for me. When asked what instrument I play and
Courses versus `number of strings', it becomes a mouthful. I am
asked: `What instrument do you play?' I play a 14 course German
theorbo
instrument I
play and
Courses versus `number of strings', it becomes a mouthful.
I am
asked: `What instrument do you play?' I play a 14 course
German
theorbo, is usually my reply. But then explaining that
each course
what instrument I play and
Courses versus `number of strings', it becomes a mouthful. I am
asked: `What instrument do you play?' I play a 14 course German
theorbo, is usually my reply. But then explaining that each course
has two `doubled-up' strings but the first two are single, making
and
Courses versus `number of strings', it becomes a mouthful. I am
asked: `What instrument do you play?' I play a 14 course German
theorbo, is usually my reply. But then explaining that each course
has two `doubled-up' strings but the first two are single, making a
sum total of twenty-six
Dear Michael,
On Mon, 5 Jan 2004, Michael Stitt wrote:
Arto!!!Stop itt!!:-) ;-)
I am sorry Michael! I just could not avoid saying so... ;-))
Arto
Howard,
This is fair assumption to make, but I don't think a man who devoted a greater part of
his life to music, a meticulous thinker, friends of at least two lutenists, and one
frequented by one of the greatest of them all (Weiss), without mistaking the lowest
bass string on the lute. It
I believe it is a copy of Jauch.
ed
At 06:59 PM 1/5/04 -0800, Michael Stitt wrote:
Up or down, it must be for a different tuning, otherwise it would rip the
pegbox off the neck.
I note Bob Barto plays something like a three-pegbox swan neck theorbo
lute. Is this a modern adaption or based
Dear Michael all,
I think it is wrong to assume that because BWV 995 calls for a low G, JSB
must have had a 14 course lute in mind.
I do not think it was a matter of practicality for JSB. He wrote pieces
for other instruments as well that called for notes out of the
tessitura. I think he
Roman,
Interesting. Is there any advantage in tuning this instrument over a swan neck?
M.
Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I note Bob Barto plays something like a three-pegbox swan neck theorbo lute.
Is this a modern adaption or based on a historical - period instrument?
http
David Rastall at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Picinnini also uses the 14th course at times, but it looks to me as if
he is sometimes indicating something other than F. Did they use
re-entrant tuning on those bass courses?
In a way. Piccinini's 14th course was tuned to the F# below the
', it becomes a mouthful. I am asked: `What instrument do you play?' I play
a 14 course German theorbo, is usually my reply. But then explaining that each course
has two `doubled-up' strings but the first two are single, making a sum total of
twenty-six NOT twenty-eight strings
course German theorbo, is usually my reply. But
then explaining that each course has two
`doubled-up' strings but the first two are single,
making a sum total of twenty-six NOT twenty-eight
strings... Then there is `fourteen course??!' - I
thought the Baroque lute has thirteen courses? My
Thanks for this Sterling. I do recall on a couple of occasions calling my instrument
`a Baroque lute' only to be corrected that it is a theorbo. Will the real instrument
please stand up?! hehe.
When you say you play Weiss C Major Suites with a 14th course, do you mean playing the
dominant
I've just got round to updating my page with a few pics of my theorbo in the
making if anyone wants a smile.
There's a direct link from the index page
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/tony.c/fretful
Tony
Dear all,
Approximately one year ago I received my new theorbo made by Nico van der
Waals in Holland. He suggested me an average string tension of 3.6 kilograms
for a string length of 82 cm. Yesterday, speaking to the phone to a fellow
lutenist, I discovered that he is using an average string
Dear Alfonso,
Besides this I have another question:
Aquila strings states that the string gauges for Nylgut are the same as for
gut strings. I have heard some people saying that Nylgut should be slightly
thinker than gut in order to obtain the same tension. What are your
experiences about
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