On 3/25/07, Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Tue, Mar 20, 2007 at 10:03:14AM -0400, Dan Farrell wrote:
> On 3/19/07 4:48 PM, Marco Peereboom wrote:
> > You are so uninformed that it isn't even funny to pick on you.
>
> Karel clocks on the wrong edge and is by far the worst educated
> a
On Tue, Mar 20, 2007 at 10:03:14AM -0400, Dan Farrell wrote:
> I second that.
>
> danno
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of chefren
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 7:34 PM
> To: misc@openbsd.org
> Subj
On Tue, Mar 20, 2007 at 12:43:06AM -0400, Daniel Ouellet wrote:
>
> Tell me, would you let Microsoft for example, access your servers to see
> if they work well? I don't think so. But again, you might already do
> that via BLOB. You just don't know.
Interesting story about a security breach.
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 07:52:35PM -0600, Tony Abernethy wrote:
> Lars D. Nooden wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 19 Mar 2007, Dave Anderson wrote:
> > > You've left out the extremely important fact that many vendors
> > > interpret acceptance of blobs by any "free" OS as validating their
> > > position of n
Nick ! wrote:
I already post proof on this list a few months ago of how bad BLOB are
with proof that if push to shove, I would argue that even the stock
exchange commission might be interested to know in some cases.
You mean this right:
http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/openbsd/2006-04/115
Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
> It wouldn't have been the first time Theo published e-mails; from what I
> have observed, he doesn't do so without good cause.
Sure. I was addressing only the point that *Daniel* did something wrong
by publishing the private emails, after Theo indicated he was willing to
On 3/20/07, Daniel Ouellet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This discussion is for the most part not going anywhere and looks like
dirty laundry between various party.
Yes.
I already post proof on this list a few months ago of how bad BLOB are
with proof that if push to shove, I would argue that e
I second that.
danno
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of chefren
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 7:34 PM
To: misc@openbsd.org
Subject: Re: No Blob without Puffy
On 3/19/07 4:48 PM, Marco Peereboom wrote:
> You are so uninformed that it is
Pawel Jakub Dawidek http://www.wheel.pl
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FreeBSD.org
FreeBSD committer Am I Evil? Yes, I Am!
It is right there in the signature.
Come on Marco, real evil persons do not need to brag about it in
> Pawel Jakub Dawidek http://www.wheel.pl
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FreeBSD.org
> FreeBSD committer Am I Evil? Yes, I Am!
It is right there in the signature.
On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 03:54:41 -0400, Gordon Willem Klok wrote:
>I'm one of those users with my atheros-based
>> wireless card I'm using right now. I know what I'm doing. I don't feel
>> less safe. I don't audit every single driver I use. And I'm happy to use
>> OS which gives me the choice.
I'm on
On Mon, 2007-03-19 at 10:54 -0500, Matthew Weigel wrote:
> No, there's not a difference. Theo said he was willing to
> take the emails public; this Daniel guy took him at his word,
> and made them public. The only foul I see is Theo threatening to take
> Daniel's emails public in the first
> plac
What a steaming pile,
On Tue, Mar 20, 2007 at 08:07:19AM +0100, Pawel Jakub Dawidek wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 06:04:12PM +0100, Ingo Schwarze wrote:
> [...]
> Unfortunately you miss the point of my analogy. We have GPLed code. We
> would like to get rid of it, but this is not possible just
Please take this up on lists where it is more relevant.
OpenBSD is not going to participate in a campaign that calls non-free
things free.
We don't tell lies like the other BSD's do.
> On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 06:04:12PM +0100, Ingo Schwarze wrote:
> > Hi Pawel,
> >
> > Pawel Jakub Dawidek schrie
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 06:04:12PM +0100, Ingo Schwarze wrote:
> Hi Pawel,
>
> Pawel Jakub Dawidek schrieb am Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 03:02:47PM +0100:
> > On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 12:38:05PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
>
> >> So isn't it rather hypocritical to have a anti-Blob campaign, backed
> >> by
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 05:43:19PM +0100, Timo Schoeler wrote:
> in the sense of freedom, FreeBSD (among others) is a ultra-cheap whore,
> as this fat pengiun is.
Hehe:) As Borat use to say "very nice":)
The problem is that in world's history the worst and the biggest source
of evilness ever is f
Hi all,
Sorry for the size of this email, but this issue drives me nuts.
This discussion is for the most part not going anywhere and looks like
dirty laundry between various party.
Campaign for no BLOB start by refusing BLOB period. No one will do
goodwill if not force to do so. That's human
Lars D. Nooden wrote:
>
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007, Dave Anderson wrote:
> > You've left out the extremely important fact that many vendors
> > interpret acceptance of blobs by any "free" OS as validating their
> > position of not releasing adequate documentation -- so accepting blobs
> > (even when "th
Pawel Jakub Dawidek wrote:
So isn't it rather hypocritical to claim GPL license is bad and BSD
license is good and ship operating system with GPLed code?
No.
How do you feel about having pro-GPL operating system?
I don't know, I run OpenBSD.
---
Lars Hansson
--
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Timo Schoeler
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 12:17 PM
To: Karel Kulhavy
Cc: misc@openbsd.org
Subject: Re: No Blob without Puffy
In epistula a Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> die horaque Mon, 19
Mar 2007 15:27:29 +0100:
>
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 13:26:18 -0500
Matthew Weigel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Timo Schoeler wrote:
>
> > people with a total lack of so called 'soft skills' won't see them,
> > tho, but that is neither Theo's problem nor anyone else's.
>
> Give me a break. If anyone posted here saying that the
On 3/19/07 4:48 PM, Marco Peereboom wrote:
You are so uninformed that it isn't even funny to pick on you.
Karel clocks on the wrong edge and is by far the worst educated
asocial asshole I have met on this list.
+++chefren
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:59:51 -0400, Dan Farrell wrote:
>I thought it was free as in beer, but because of the blobs, not
>necessarily free as in you can do whatever you want with it...
>
>Because what can you do with a blob? Are you allowed to use a blob
>anywhere you want, in any situation? Are yo
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007, Dave Anderson wrote:
> You've left out the extremely important fact that many vendors
> interpret acceptance of blobs by any "free" OS as validating their
> position of not releasing adequate documentation -- so accepting blobs
> (even when "there's no other choice") actively h
On 3/19/07, Pawel Jakub Dawidek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
So isn't it rather hypocritical to claim GPL license is bad and BSD
license is good and ship operating system with GPLed code?
How do you feel about having pro-GPL operating system? Why do you lie to
your users by having 'BSD' in operatin
Timo Schoeler wrote:
> people with a total lack of so called 'soft skills' won't see them,
> tho, but that is neither Theo's problem nor anyone else's.
Give me a break. If anyone posted here saying that they would post some
private correspondence with Theo unless he took some action, misc@ would
Marco Peereboom
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 11:00 AM
To: Jason George
Cc: misc@openbsd.org
Subject: Re: No Blob without Puffy
Not if he makes his saving throw! I bet you he has a cloak of infinite
karma too. So not hit-points lost!
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 01:57:58AM +, Jason George wrote:
In epistula a Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> die horaque Mon, 19
Mar 2007 15:27:29 +0100:
> On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 11:35:14AM +0100, Henning Brauer wrote:
> > * SW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-03-19 03:21]:
> > > Free as in FreeBSD
> >
> > ahh, I finally get it.
> >
> > dry like water
> > hot l
Hi Pawel,
Pawel Jakub Dawidek schrieb am Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 03:02:47PM +0100:
> On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 12:38:05PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
>> So isn't it rather hypocritical to have a anti-Blob campaign, backed
>> by projects which embrace the Blob?
> So isn't it rather hypocritical to cla
In epistula a Pawel Jakub Dawidek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> die horaque Mon, 19
Mar 2007 15:02:47 +0100:
> On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 12:38:05PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> > So isn't it rather hypocritical to have a anti-Blob campaign, backed
> > by projects which embrace the Blob?
>
> So isn't it rath
>Jason George wrote:
>
>> This was sabre-rattling. Daniel made a pre-emptive tactical strike.
>> There's a big difference.
>
>No, there's not a difference. Theo said he was willing to take the
>emails public; this Daniel guy took him at his word, and made them
>public. The only foul I see is The
In epistula a Matthew Weigel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> die horaque Mon, 19
Mar 2007 10:54:24 -0500:
> Jason George wrote:
>
> > This was sabre-rattling. Daniel made a pre-emptive tactical strike.
> > There's a big difference.
>
> No, there's not a difference. Theo said he was willing to take the
> e
On 3/19/07, Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
FreeBSD is released under BSD licence and therefore is free software, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software
where is the source to the "free software" nvidia driver?
Pawel Jakub Dawidek wrote:
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 12:38:05PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
So isn't it rather hypocritical to have a anti-Blob campaign, backed
by projects which embrace the Blob?
So isn't it rather hypocritical to claim GPL license is bad and BSD
license is good and shi
** Reply to message from Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Mon, 19
Mar 2007 15:04:46 +0100
>On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 12:06:31AM +0100, SW wrote:
>
>I have a feeling that the campaign means "We don't want vendors to require
>us to use a blob but we'll ocassionally use them when we have to other w
You are so uninformed that it isn't even funny to pick on you.
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 03:04:46PM +0100, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 12:06:31AM +0100, SW wrote:
>
> I have a feeling that the campaign means "We don't want vendors to require
> us to use a blob but we'll ocassion
On 3/19/07, Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 12:06:31AM +0100, SW wrote:
I have a feeling that the campaign means "We don't want vendors to require
us to use a blob but we'll ocassionally use them when we have to other way",
while Theo means "I don't want vendors
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Karel Kulhavy
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 10:27 AM
To: OpenBSD
Subject: Re: No Blob without Puffy
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 11:35:14AM +0100, Henning Brauer wrote:
> * SW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-03-19 03:21]:
> > Free as in FreeBSD
>
>
Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 12:06:31AM +0100, SW wrote:
>
> I have a feeling that the campaign means "We don't want vendors to require
> us to use a blob but we'll ocassionally use them when we have to other way",
> while Theo means "I don't want vendors to require us to use a bl
Jason George wrote:
> This was sabre-rattling. Daniel made a pre-emptive tactical strike.
> There's a big difference.
No, there's not a difference. Theo said he was willing to take the
emails public; this Daniel guy took him at his word, and made them
public. The only foul I see is Theo threat
Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 11:35:14AM +0100, Henning Brauer wrote:
> > * SW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-03-19 03:21]:
> > > Free as in FreeBSD
> >
> > ahh, I finally get it.
> >
> > dry like water
> > hot like ice
> > free like freebsd
>
> FreeBSD is relea
Not if he makes his saving throw! I bet you he has a cloak of infinite
karma too. So not hit-points lost!
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 01:57:58AM +, Jason George wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >this is the conversation I had with Theo:
>
>
> You just made private emails public, almost certainly without th
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 12:38:05PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> So isn't it rather hypocritical to have a anti-Blob campaign, backed
> by projects which embrace the Blob?
So isn't it rather hypocritical to claim GPL license is bad and BSD
license is good and ship operating system with GPLed code?
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 12:06:31AM +0100, SW wrote:
I have a feeling that the campaign means "We don't want vendors to require
us to use a blob but we'll ocassionally use them when we have to other way",
while Theo means "I don't want vendors to require us to use a blob and I refuse
to use them ev
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 11:35:14AM +0100, Henning Brauer wrote:
> * SW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-03-19 03:21]:
> > Free as in FreeBSD
>
> ahh, I finally get it.
>
> dry like water
> hot like ice
> free like freebsd
FreeBSD is released under BSD licence and therefore is free software, see
http://
Henning Brauer wrote:
* SW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-03-19 03:21]:
Free as in FreeBSD
ahh, I finally get it.
dry like water
hot like ice
free like freebsd
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four#Doublethink
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four
;)
Artur Grabowski wrote:
> "SW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>
>> Free as in FreeBSD (and NetBSD and DragonFly BSD etc.).
>>
>
> War is peace, freedom is freebsd...
>
>
freedom is regime change, war is profit.
> //art
* SW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-03-19 03:21]:
> Free as in FreeBSD
ahh, I finally get it.
dry like water
hot like ice
free like freebsd
--
Henning Brauer, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
BS Web Services, http://bsws.de
Full-Service ISP - Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services
Dedicated Serve
"SW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Free as in FreeBSD (and NetBSD and DragonFly BSD etc.).
War is peace, freedom is freebsd...
//art
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> this is the conversation I had with Theo:
>>
>>
>> You just made private emails public, almost certainly without the permission
>> of the other parties involved.
>
>I dunno, Daniel indicates Theo wrote the following:
>
>> If you release that poster which uses our slogan in such a
"SW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 6. Go on with your fight for free documentation but please stop fighting
> all other BSDs. It will lead to absolutely no good.
Wow, talk about missing the point. You have to fight FreeBSD to fight for
free documentation, because FreeBSD is fighting to stop anyo
On 3/18/07, SW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
5. OpenBSD thinks there should be no possibility whatsoever to use Blobs.
FreeBSD thinks it's up to the user to decide what's best for him. And
maybe that will include competition between Open Source BSD-licensed
drivers and Blobs. You can use Nvidia gra
SW wrote:
> Hi,
> this is the conversation I had with Theo:
Your `No Blob!' poster, complete with logos of BSD systems that ship with
blobs, will feel right at home beside my `Trustworthy Computing
Initiative' and `Mission Accomplished' banners.
A true laughing-stock in the making. Trust me, thi
Greetings,
Can just everybody - PLEASE, drop this thread!
No need to waste bandwidth, it was sorted out by THEO.
Regards,
Ioan
>>> Jason Dixon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 03/19 11:52 am >>>
On Mar 18, 2007, at 7:06 PM, SW wrote:
I read your entire thread, and find it appalling that not only will
On Sun, 18 Mar 2007, Jason Dixon wrote:
> Again, why are you being hypocritical by including a BLOB-friendly OS in your
> campaign? You're part of the problem, not the solution.
Actually, I think that by listing only blob-distributing OSs on their poster
the campaign has a very funny subtextual
Jason George wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> this is the conversation I had with Theo:
>
>
> You just made private emails public, almost certainly without the permission
> of the other parties involved.
I dunno, Daniel indicates Theo wrote the following:
> If you release that poster which uses our slogan
That was the conversation in detail, nothing altered, nothing left
out, read and draw your own conclusions.
As it was said, it's "appalling" and "disrespectful". The tread really
show how focus you and FreBSD is not focus on the issue really. Or have
no clue how to fight it. You even admit Fre
SW writes:
> That's freedom of choice, Free as in FreeBSD (and NetBSD and
> DragonFly BSD etc.).
That's free? Whoever told you that was your enemy. ;)
On Mar 18, 2007, at 9:31 PM, SW wrote:
1. We have nothing to hide. Theo wrote he would post the mails
in public, I told him to do so. There's nothing private in those
mails. Everybody has a right to know what was going on, read every
bit.
I did, and suggest you do the same.
2. I asked Theo i
-Original Message-
From: Jason Dixon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 1:53 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: misc@openbsd.org
Subject: Re: No Blob without Puffy
On Mar 18, 2007, at 7:06 PM, SW wrote:
I read your entire thread, and find it appalling that not only will
On 3/18/07, SW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
No, I havent't told you I would write that and you haven't seen the
unfinished flyer yet. You are assuming that I will tell lies, which
I will not. I will tell people which Blobs are used in each BSD and
that this is wrong imho. I'm not in a position to l
"SW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Sorry, I'm not angry, I'm focused and productive.
>
> Best regards, Daniel
I think it is disingenuous to include those BSDs which have blobs on
such a flyer, especially in a position at the bottom which implies
sponsorship or support of such a campaign when the
That was the conversation in detail, nothing altered, nothing left
out, read and draw your own conclusions.
Conclusion: you are not contributing to the problem at all.
Sorry, I'm not angry, I'm focused and productive.
Nope, not productive at all in my opinion. Theo is right on the mark about
On Mar 18, 2007, at 7:06 PM, SW wrote:
I read your entire thread, and find it appalling that not only will
you take someone's private email and broadcast it, but that it
incriminates you on all counts. You admit that FreeBSD continues to
ship BLOBs, but you wish to keep them on your camp
>Hi,
>
>this is the conversation I had with Theo:
You just made private emails public, almost certainly without the permission
of the other parties involved.
Please deduct any and all karma points you thought you had.
Hi,
this is the conversation I had with Theo:
1. mail, 12.03.2007 01:29
Dear Theo,
allBSD is currently prepairing for the Stop Blob! campaign
an we have a poster ready here:
http://www.allbsd.de/src/Kampagnen/StopBlob/StopBlob-en-Poster.pdf
This is already translated into some languages, more
> > But more and more of these Blob's are making it into FreeBSD all the
> > time. The Nvidia driver (though now they are using our nvidia driver,
>
> I just wonder what happens if every commercial manufacturer starts requiring a
> blob? Will OpenBSD stop existing? Or will you adapt a pro-blob p
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Please do make an effort
to find some information yourself before asking, or you will
start getting on people's nerves, even if you do not intend to.
Start?
iD8DBQFF/AzH5B7p9jYarz8RAm2BAJ9ak/sun5B61mKN/jIF0GqMJbiy0gCfSsbx
9USyHH/QNgeX53vWKUov
Hi Karel,
Karel Kulhavy wrote on Sat, Mar 17, 2007 at 10:38:11AM +0100:
> On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 12:38:05PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
>> Someone asked:
>>> Is it true that Puffy is not here because of Theo's concerns
>>> about his copyrighted Puffy logo?
>>> http://misc.allbsd.de/Kampagnen/NoB
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 12:38:05PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> > Is it true that Puffy is not here because of Theo's concerns about
> > his copyrighted Puffy logo?
> > http://misc.allbsd.de/Kampagnen/NoBlob/NoBlob-en-Poster.jpg
>
> No. That is false. Whoever told you that lied to you.
That wa
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 02:06:50PM -0500, K K wrote:
> It'd be great if Theo could make a clear statement on Puffy, the same
> as Marshall Kirk McKusick has for the daemon. I had cause to use a
> variant of Marshall's beastie for a project which was marginally
> within his published guidelines, a
> On Friday 16 March 2007 12:56, Bob Beck wrote:
> > If you have nothing better to do that look at "campaigns"
> > at least find a campaign where it appears the people doing it
> > understand this issues.
>
> Can you actually name a technical campaign besides openbsd that actually
> unders
On Friday 16 March 2007 12:56, Bob Beck wrote:
> If you have nothing better to do that look at "campaigns"
> at least find a campaign where it appears the people doing it
> understand this issues.
Can you actually name a technical campaign besides openbsd that actually
understands both the
* Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-03-16 12:20]:
> Is it true that Puffy is not here because of Theo's concerns about
> his copyrighted Puffy logo?
> http://misc.allbsd.de/Kampagnen/NoBlob/NoBlob-en-Poster.jpg
Hunh? a "No Blob" poster with FreeBSD on it? that's a
fucking joke. they'
It'd be great if Theo could make a clear statement on Puffy, the same
as Marshall Kirk McKusick has for the daemon. I had cause to use a
variant of Marshall's beastie for a project which was marginally
within his published guidelines, and had no problem getting
permission.
On 3/16/07, Karel Ku
> Is it true that Puffy is not here because of Theo's concerns about
> his copyrighted Puffy logo?
> http://misc.allbsd.de/Kampagnen/NoBlob/NoBlob-en-Poster.jpg
No. That is false. Whoever told you that lied to you.
> I also couldn't use Puffy logo on Ronja because then I wouldn't be able to
>
On 3/16/07, Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Is it true that Puffy is not here because of Theo's concerns about
his copyrighted Puffy logo?
http://misc.allbsd.de/Kampagnen/NoBlob/NoBlob-en-Poster.jpg
I also couldn't use Puffy logo on Ronja because then I wouldn't be able to talk
about Op
On Mar 16, 2007, at 12:18 PM, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> I think Theo should stop being paranoid about his Puffy.
You don't understand! Theo's just trying to protect us. Handling the
deadly
pufferfish is very dangerous, and best left to experts!
--
Jack J. Woehr
Director of Development
Absolute P
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