Perrin Harkins writes:
Correct Perl style is probably not something that any two people will
ever agree on.
If you use Extreme Programming, the whole team has to agree.
Collective ownership, pair programming, and refactoring all suffer if
you don't have a common coding style. The use of map,
Perrin == Perrin Harkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Perrin Someone else will eventually have to maintain them, so I
Perrin write in a way that a novice with a copy of Learning Perl has a hope
Perrin of understanding.
Perrin When I work in an environment that is more Perl-centric, I expand the
On Fri, Nov 01, 2002 at 01:42:45PM -0500, Perrin Harkins wrote:
It sounds like you're saying that you should only use a subset of Perl
as some programmers may not understand the other parts of it?
That is what I'm saying. I'm aware that this is a controversial opinion
in the Perl world.
Tony Bowden wrote:
... but I think that there should be a certain level of ability that
should be assumed when coding commercially ...
My current situation is somewhat unusual because Perl is not the
language that the people I am coding with were hired to write. They are
mostly Java
Franck PORCHER wrote:
But for is a lot easier to read and debug, IMHO Is there a
significant performance difference in using map instead?
My experience is that in most cases, the for construct is used
to apply the same treatment to all the elements of an array,
whence the map
On Fri, Nov 01, 2002 at 03:10:54AM -0500, Perrin Harkins wrote:
There is a time and place for map: when you want to do something
to each element in an array and return the array on the other side.
Otherwise, use for, like this: some_function($_) for array;.
Even when map is not incorrect, I
On Wed, 2002-10-30 at 17:09, John Saylor wrote:
Hi
( 02.10.30 03:22 -0500 ) Perrin Harkins:
They didn't make their decision on performance though. They seem to
have been most influenced by the idea that perl allows too much
flexibility in coding style, although I can't see how PHP is
Tony Bowden wrote:
It sounds like you're saying that you should only use a subset of Perl
as some programmers may not understand the other parts of it?
That is what I'm saying. I'm aware that this is a controversial opinion
in the Perl world. However, I think it's reasonable to know your
Hi
( 02.11.01 13:42 -0500 ) Perrin Harkins:
It's not that map is so evil, but rather that I have often seen people
overuse it (especially after a first-reading of Effective Perl), and
write confusing code with it by jamming too much into the map { some
stuff } @list form.
As a former map
Mike == Mike Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Let's prey that those PHP geeks quickly discover the
true joy of working with functionnals (map and al.).
I have often wondered about the ratio of Perl programmers
still using the C-like for construct. I guess it's rather low.
Mike But for is
On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Rob Nagler wrote:
Tagore Smith writes:
I think it would be harder to hire people to work on his system (of course
you'd probably also get more experienced people, so that might not be such a
bad thing).
This raises the $64 question: If you could hire 10 PHP
On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Mike Miller wrote:
On Wed, 30 Oct 2002 20:28:11 + (GMT)
Franck PORCHER [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Let's prey that those PHP geeks quickly discover the
true joy of working with functionnals (map and al.).
I have often wondered about the ratio of Perl programmers
On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Franck PORCHER wrote:
In fact, regarding the efficiency of the map construct, I often
wondered whether Perl detects map being ran in a void context,
so as to give it an iterative interpretation, avoiding to build
the output list.
IIRC (but I might not) then it does since
PH == Perrin Harkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
PH Sure. That's why Vignette used TCL: adding your own C commands to the
PH language is easy. Probably the same story for AOLServer.
Considering that the whole purpose for TCL was to embed it into C
progams, one would hope that it would be
http://public.yahoo.com/~radwin/talks/yahoo-phpcon2002.htm
If nothing else this should be atleast generate some thoughts ?? It
does show the mod_perl logo so I assume the comments are applying to
mod_perl and not perl/cgi.
Mithun
--
Cons
Theres More Than
Mithun Bhattacharya wrote:
http://public.yahoo.com/~radwin/talks/yahoo-phpcon2002.htm
If nothing else this should be atleast generate some thoughts ??
It does: hooray! Yahoo is moving from a proprietary server-side
scripting tool to an open source one. Great news for all of us, since
--- Perrin Harkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mithun Bhattacharya wrote:
http://public.yahoo.com/~radwin/talks/yahoo-phpcon2002.htm
They also say they plan to continue using lots of perl in all the
places
they use it now: off-line processing, filling in the includes and dbm
files that
-Original Message-
From: Mithun Bhattacharya [mailto:inzoik;yahoo.com]
Sent: 30 October 2002 09:17
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Yahoo is moving to PHP ??
No it is not being removed but this could have been a very big thing
for mod_perl. Can someone find out more details
Hi
( 02.10.30 03:22 -0500 ) Perrin Harkins:
They didn't make their decision on performance though. They seem to
have been most influenced by the idea that perl allows too much
flexibility in coding style, although I can't see how PHP is going to
help with that.
Wow, I'd like what *they*
You would think if they want an anal scripting language they would move to
python not PHP. :)
John Saylor wrote:
Hi
( 02.10.30 03:22 -0500 ) Perrin Harkins:
They didn't make their decision on performance though. They seem to
have been most influenced by the idea that perl
If they are going to inherently mangle their php and perl
and lose that abstraction layer I think in 2 years they
will look back and wish TMTOWTDI was their only
problem
That said, Kudo's to yahoo for being this public about it.
These are the sorts of publically available presentations
List,
You are probably not the best people to ask for an answer which
might advocate PHP,
but.
Can someone who is more proficient in PHP than I (I have used it
for 5 minutes) explain to me why it is quicker to prototype things in PHP?
I can't understand this statement.
Hi John --
Quasi-seriously, as someone who has had to maintain mountains of bad
perl code, I know TMTOWTDI can have a downside; but the openness of the
language is what has lead to its greatness ...
This doesn't have to be as big a problem as it often is. Having coding
standards makes a big
] Re: Yahoo is moving to PHP ??
List,
You are probably not the best people to ask for an answer which
might advocate PHP,
but.
Can someone who is more proficient in PHP than I (I have used it
for 5 minutes) explain to me why it is quicker to prototype things in PHP?
I
At 11:39 30/10/2002 -0500, Jesse Erlbaum wrote:
Hi John --
Quasi-seriously, as someone who has had to maintain mountains of bad
perl code, I know TMTOWTDI can have a downside; but the openness of the
language is what has lead to its greatness ...
This doesn't have to be as big a problem as
On Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:39:07 -0500 Jesse Erlbaum wrote:
Hi John --
Quasi-seriously, as someone who has had to maintain mountains of bad
perl code, I know TMTOWTDI can have a downside; but the openness of the
language is what has lead to its greatness ...
This doesn't have to be as big
Check out their online map site, they do use Python for that.
snippet o' URL: http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?BFCat=.
You know you're going to have a bad day when you see the sun come up.
Over the curb.
Brian Nilsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Gunther Birznieks
Tom Servo wrote:
Check out their online map site, they do use Python for that.
I'm actually surprised they didn't go with Python, because the people I
know there love it. If their backend data processing ever gets moved
from Perl to something else, it would probably be moved to Python.
-
Mithun Bhattacharya wrote:
No it is not being removed but this could have been a very big thing
for mod_perl. Can someone find out more details as to why PHP was
preferred over mod_perl it cant be just on a whim.
Think about what they are using it for. Yahoo is the most extreme
example of a
At 02:50 PM 10/30/02 -0500, Perrin Harkins wrote:
Mithun Bhattacharya wrote:
No it is not being removed but this could have been a very big thing
for mod_perl. Can someone find out more details as to why PHP was
preferred over mod_perl it cant be just on a whim.
Think about what they are using
Perrin Harkins writes:
The real application stuff is built in other languages. (At least
this is the impression I get from the paper and from talking to
people there.)
I think Yahoo Stores is written in Lisp. I also believe it handles
the front and back end. Would be interesting to know why
I'm sure it is. This has been discussed on this list before: PHP in safe
mode is much more likely to be found on the offerings of virtual hosting
companies, which tend to use control panel things like Plesk, Ensim, or RAQ
boxes. If you do get mod_perl you don't get to play with everything, it
Rob Nagler wrote:
I think Yahoo Stores is written in Lisp. I also believe it handles
the front and back end. Would be interesting to know why this was
left out of the discussion.
Yahoo store was originally ViaWeb and was written in Common Lisp. It was
one of the first large applications
Tagore Smith writes:
I think it would be harder to hire people to work on his system (of course
you'd probably also get more experienced people, so that might not be such a
bad thing).
This raises the $64 question: If you could hire 10 PHP programmers at
$50/hour or 4 Perl programmers at
Perrin Harkins wrote:
They also have more of a
need than most people to integrate with C/C++, and I've been told that
it's easier to hack those into PHP.
What a joke.
Cristóvão Dalla Costa wrote:
Perrin Harkins wrote:
They also have more of a
need than most people to integrate with C/C++, and I've been told that
it's easier to hack those into PHP.
What a joke.
Have you written C extensions for both Perl and PHP and think Perl is
easier? Most people
* Perrin Harkins ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [31 Oct 2002 14:26]:
[...]
Have you written C extensions for both Perl and PHP and think Perl is
easier?
I've only written XS for Perl. Not touched PHP with any C stuff. While I
must admit that my early XS was crap, that's mostly my fault.
Last time I
Iain 'Spoon' Truskett wrote:
In general, it makes sense that a simple language would be simple to
extend with C. That's why people like TCL.
They do? =)
Sure. That's why Vignette used TCL: adding your own C commands to the
language is easy. Probably the same story for AOLServer.
-
Perrin Harkins wrote:
Have you written C extensions for both Perl and PHP and think Perl is
easier?
Most certainly, using SWIG. I didn't have to recompile Perl two or three
times, or read Perl's source to figure out what to do. The PHP docs on
the subject were misleading and innacurate
Let's prey that those PHP geeks quickly discover the
true joy of working with functionnals (map and al.).
I have often wondered about the ratio of Perl programmers
still using the C-like for construct. I guess it's rather low.
Franck.
On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Tagore Smith wrote:
Rob Nagler wrote:
On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Gunther Birznieks wrote:
You would think if they want an anal scripting language they would move
to python not PHP. :)
Python isn't anal--it's a very clean, interesting, flexible language on
par with perl--perhaps superior in some ways and not as good in others
but,
On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Richard Clarke wrote:
List,
You are probably not the best people to ask for an answer which
might advocate PHP,
but.
Can someone who is more proficient in PHP than I (I have used it
for 5 minutes) explain to me why it is quicker to prototype things
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