Re: irc

2001-12-22 Thread Issac Goldstand
Thomas Eibner wrote: On Sat, Dec 22, 2001 at 07:21:00AM -0800, brian moseley wrote: i can't believe i never thought to ask this in 4 years, but: do any of you hang out on irc anywhere in particular? shouldn't there be a #mod_perl somewhere, if there isn't already? We used to hang on #Take23

Re: [VERY OT] How to Use Apache as a FTP server

2001-12-19 Thread Issac Goldstand
That's not mod-perl. That's not even Apache. Many popular web browsers have browsing features for anonymous FTP. You need an FTP server for that. Apache 2 will include an FTP server (I think), but for now, try wuftpd. Issac anandr wrote: Hi All, I want to use my Apache as a ftp

using Apache::ReadConfig to configure from perl scripts

2001-12-18 Thread Issac Goldstand
Hi all... I'm trying to put the finishing touches on Apache::UploadMeter, but am running into a minor problem. Due to the complexity of the configuration, I'm trying to use the Apache::ReadConfig namespace from mod_perl_start.pl to dynamically configure the upload-meter (by setting some

Re: using Apache::ReadConfig to configure from perl scripts

2001-12-18 Thread Issac Goldstand
works, yet when I try setting them all to PostReadRequestHandler, NONE of them work... I'm really quite lost and would appreciate any help anyone could offer about setting perl handlers in Perl sections in general Issac Geoffrey Young wrote: Issac Goldstand wrote: Hi all... I'm trying

Apache::can_stack_handlers()

2001-12-11 Thread Issac Goldstand
What version of mod_perl starts supporting this? Issac -- Internet is a wonderful mechanism for making a fool of yourself in front of a very large audience. --Anonymous Moving the mouse won't get you into trouble... Clicking it might. --Anonymous PGP Key 0xE0FA561B - Fingerprint: 7E18

Pushing Handlers from Perl sections

2001-12-11 Thread Issac Goldstand
Can I _upsh_ handlers from within Perl sections? If so, how? Issac -- Internet is a wonderful mechanism for making a fool of yourself in front of a very large audience. --Anonymous Moving the mouse won't get you into trouble... Clicking it might. --Anonymous PGP Key 0xE0FA561B -

Re: file upload process

2001-12-04 Thread Issac Goldstand
Also, I'm currently putting the finishing the final touches on a module called Apache::UploadMeter which automates this process pretty well... Help is more than welcome - at this point, the internals are really done. It's just an issue of making a configuration interface, a bit of documentation,

Re: array's first element is empty

2001-11-26 Thread Issac Goldstand
I don't think this is OT. I have had a similar error in which SELECT statements return fine under mod_cgi, but mysteriously get an extra null field underl mod_perl with Apache::DBI... I don't know what causes it, nor have I looked into it, but I think it is somewhat related to or caused by

Re: array's first element is empty

2001-11-26 Thread Issac Goldstand
to let people know. Issac PGP Key 0xE0FA561B - Fingerprint: 7E18 C018 D623 A57B 7F37 D902 8C84 7675 E0FA 561B - Original Message - From: Joshua Chamas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Issac Goldstand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Viljo Marrandi [EMAIL PROTECTED]; modperl list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday

Perl sections from within a module

2001-11-22 Thread Issac Goldstand
Is there a way of doing configuration work (the equivalent of Perl sections) from within modules? I ask both for subroutines which are called at server startup (from mod_perl_start.pl) and from other handlers... Thanks in advance, Issac Internet is a wonderful mechanism for making a fool

$r-set_handlers and $R-push_handlers

2001-11-20 Thread Issac Goldstand
How can you specify a Location for these paramters, or can they be used only from within the current section? Issac Internet is a wonderful mechanism for making a fool ofyourself in front of a very large audience. --Anonymous Moving the mouse won't get you into trouble... Clicking it

Apache::OutputChain vs. Apache::Filter

2001-11-12 Thread Issac Goldstand
Just out of curiosity, which of these two modules are more popularly used? I have to make some sort of inline SSI processing in one of my modules, and am curious to know how other people do it... I know that different people will do different things depending on the situation, and that

[OT] Cookie woes

2001-11-11 Thread Issac Goldstand
Hi everyone. This actually isn't mod_perl per se, but I'm hoping that other web developers might know something about this. I'm having cookie problems with, interestingly enough, both Netscape and MSIE. I'm setting a cookie in a page. Included in the page is an inline document (can be

Re: http or https in URL?

2001-11-06 Thread Issac Goldstand
*sigh* Didn't we have this argument out about 2 months ago??? There's an old thread on this and most of what's being said here isn't adding anything, but rather repeating things... The conclusions were basically that the best way would be to check $ENV{HTTPS}, but I seem to recall someone

Re: Unpredictable Effects after Upload...

2001-10-31 Thread Issac Goldstand
I dunno - I recently fixed a problem with the upload_hook that was making a similar problem... Tell me: is there anything weird in the error_log right after the upload? Perhaps the file is not being parsed properly... Issac Internet is a wonderful mechanism for making a fool of yourself in

Benchmarks on server cluster

2001-10-26 Thread Issac Goldstand
I've just recieved an OK to do some Benchmarks on a server cluster of 16+1 (master) dual 450 Mhz machines (master node is dual 650). I plan on doing benchmarks and comparing perfornance for the following setups, so far: Server cluster using httpd process on each individual node and front

Using non-response handler only

2001-10-23 Thread Issac Goldstand
Just out of curiosity: are there any efficiency issues regarding using mod_perl for the exclusive use of a phase other than the response? In other words, if I want a script to do something other than return a static page from a file, are there advantages/disadvantages to using mod_perl over

RFC: Apache::UploadMeter

2001-10-22 Thread Issac Goldstand
I need to make an upload meter for a project that I'm working on, and was wondering if it was worth making a generic one and puting it under the Apache::* namespace (probably Apache::UploadMeter). The reason that I'm asking is because it's going to need a rather extensive configuration to

More libapreq woes...

2001-10-14 Thread Issac Goldstand
I've made some progress since my stupid and, admitedly, rather careless, error with the upload_hook extended by libapreq. I finally gave up on debugging it in it's current context and made a seperate light module setup just to test. Currently, I'm using the Apache::Test::UploadMeter namespace

libapreq returning very strange error

2001-10-13 Thread Issac Goldstand
I recently tried to use some of what I've tried to learn about the UPLOAD_HOOK provided via Apache::Request. However, when using it, I get a really weird error: Undefined subroutine Apache::Upload::handler called at /dev/null line 1. Anyone know what would be causing this error (and, by

libapreq problem: solved

2001-10-13 Thread Issac Goldstand
Apparantly, I made a major mistake with the UPLOAD_HOOK error... While it still doesn't work, I found out what caused the mysterious error... The name space I happen to be using is TFile::*, and all of my upload-related handlers are stuffed into TFile::Upload. Unfortunately, out of force of

Re: Problem with Apache-request

2001-10-11 Thread Issac Goldstand
Try doing my $r=Apache::Request-new($r); Issac Internet is a wonderful mechanism for making a fool of yourself in front of a very large audience. --Anonymous Moving the mouse won't get you into trouble... Clicking it might. --Anonymous PGP Key 0xE0FA561B - Fingerprint: 7E18 C018 D623

Re: Apache::Request UPLOAD_HOOK

2001-10-10 Thread Issac Goldstand
. --Anonymous PGP Key 0xE0FA561B - Fingerprint: 7E18 C018 D623 A57B 7F37 D902 8C84 7675 E0FA 561B - Original Message - From: Joe Schaefer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Issac Goldstand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 19:16 Subject: Re: Apache::Request

Apache::Request UPLOAD_HOOK

2001-10-07 Thread Issac Goldstand
The documentation on how to use this feature is a bit sketchy... Can anyone explain: 1) What the variables passed to the callback function are (looks like the Apache::Upload object is the first, but what's been filled in there when the hook gets called? The second looks like the current

Re: DB_File needs compatible versions

2001-10-03 Thread Issac Goldstand
I originally just posted this back to Scott, but after seeing all the flurry of activity regarding this lately, here's my $0.02 on the issue... -Original Message- I've had this problem. The problem is actually in the RPM for perl, whichin it's default make notices this problem and

[Somewhat OT] Typo in the guide

2001-10-03 Thread Issac Goldstand
I actually tried to send this directly to Sats - twice. But mail seemed to be bouncing, so I suppose I'll have to do this through the list... Firstly - the typo: the mod_perl porting page contains info about setting HTTP headers - but the guide says to do $r-headers_out, when the

Keeping POST information between request phases

2001-09-30 Thread Issac Goldstand
I know this sounds like a rather newbie-ish question, but I guess I never really did many inter-request-phase stuff before... Anyway, how can I keep track of the information from a POST request between different phases of Apache's handling? For example, if I have a $q=new

Re: site copies under the one httpd

2001-09-30 Thread Issac Goldstand
One solution could be to put your modules in some nonstandard location and include them in @INC in the mod_perl_start.pl. Then just use two different locations for the modules, and each server adds one of these locations into @INC - so production modules go to production server's @INC and dev

Re: Help w/ install [ActivePerl,W2K Server,Apache 1.3.20]

2001-09-07 Thread Issac Goldstand
Possible you need an AddModule mod_perl.c line in there somewhere... I'm not such an experienced module-user with Apache for Win32... Issac PGP Key 0xE0FA561B - Fingerprint: 7E18 C018 D623 A57B 7F37 D902 8C84 7675 E0FA 561B - Original Message - From: Brice D Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Bug??

2001-08-01 Thread Issac Goldstand
- Original Message - From: Stas Bekman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Chris Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 05:16 Subject: Re: Bug?? On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Chris Rodgers wrote: Thanks for that. However, I've already seen this. The problem is

[OT] Using mod_proxy and mod_ssl to forward SSL connections

2001-07-25 Thread Issac Goldstand
I am trying to make a back-end mod_perl/mod_ssl server. The front-end server that is currently in place is doing a great job forwarding normal requests to the back-end, but it is not forwarding SSL. Now, the front-end server does not understand SSL, itself. What I'm doing is trying to force

Re: [OT] Using mod_proxy and mod_ssl to forward SSL connections

2001-07-25 Thread Issac Goldstand
The front end server must be configured to understand SSL. Otherwise, how else can the HTTP request be pulled apart (decrypted) to understand that it has to be forwarded to the backend server. 2 words: dumb proxy. The request doesn't need to be pulled apart by the front-end server

Re: [Probably OT] Make test fails in Net::Telnet

2001-07-24 Thread Issac Goldstand
I actually had this problem too. I never found a solution, so in the end I just gave up and force installed. It's also on RH7.1 with perl 5.6.1 I'd be interested in the answer if someone finds it Issac - Original Message - From: Rob Bloodgood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mod_perl

Re: OT: Re: ApacheCon Dublin Cancelled?

2001-07-16 Thread Issac Goldstand
On 16 Jul 2001, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: Bill == Bill Moseley [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bill Well, this is more along the price issue that you don't want Bill to hear about, but I much prefer a single fee for everything Bill instead of separate tutorial and conference fees. So

Re: detecting ssl

2001-07-12 Thread Issac Goldstand
On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Issac Goldstand wrote: IG == Issac Goldstand [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: IG Not necessarily. I could easily set up any virtualhost on port IG 443 which will be accessable by https://nasty.servername/ but IG will, in reality, not necessarily be over a secure

Re: detecting ssl

2001-07-10 Thread Issac Goldstand
Not necessarily. I could easily set up any virtualhost on port 443 which will be accessable by https://nasty.servername/ but will, in reality, not necessarily be over a secure connection. $ENV{HTTPS}, on the other hand, is set by mod_ssl, and is therefore a better sign to know that the

Re: detecting ssl

2001-07-10 Thread Issac Goldstand
-Original Message- From: Issac Goldstand [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 10:44 AM To: Geoffrey Young; 'João Pedro Gonçalves'; brian moseley Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: detecting ssl Not necessarily. I could easily set up any virtualhost

Re: detecting ssl

2001-07-10 Thread Issac Goldstand
-Original Message- From: Issac Goldstand [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 10:44 AM To: Geoffrey Young; 'João Pedro Gonçalves'; brian moseley Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: detecting ssl Not necessarily. I could easily set up

Re: detecting ssl

2001-07-10 Thread Issac Goldstand
-Original Message- From: Issac Goldstand [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 10:44 AM To: Geoffrey Young; 'João Pedro Gonçalves'; brian moseley Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: detecting ssl Not necessarily. I could easily set up

Re: switch user id

2001-07-09 Thread Issac Goldstand
As far as I know, it does not exist now, but I believe it WILL be possible with Apache 2.0/mod_perl 2. Issac - Original Message - From: Miroslav Madzarevic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 19:02 Subject: switch user id As you know, apache runs as

Re: Help with parameters.]

2001-06-08 Thread Issac Goldstand
I have built modperl 1.25. I could run perl scripts fine. How can I send parameters to a perl scripts? Using http://mydomain.com/perl/foreach.pl?200+300 does not seem to work. you'll need to do it as something like http://mydomain.com/perl/foreach.pl?num1=200num2=300

Re: Help with Cookie

2001-06-04 Thread Issac Goldstand
Sometimes, that's a result of setting the path of the cookie incorrectly... see CGI::Cookie or Apache::Cookie for details on how to set them... Issac - Original Message - From: Bird Lei To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 09:54 Subject: Help with

Re: Content-Disposition to change type and action?

2001-05-31 Thread Issac Goldstand
Hi there, On Tue, 29 May 2001, Jay Jacobs wrote: I've tried setting $r-content_type and even $r-filename to try and get the browser (ie 5 for now) to see it as a non-html file and do the right thing. IE is particularly fond of ignoring Content-type. If the file is called

Re: Real Widgets and Template Languages

2001-05-31 Thread Issac Goldstand
Wait a second, here... I was under the assumption that the Widget library was not going to be limited to HTML output only. According to your page, it seems that the only customization that you plan on doing is to modify the HTML to work properly with specific browsers (eg, MSIE vs

[OT] mod_mime_magic in perl?

2001-05-31 Thread Issac Goldstand
Does anyone know if there is a perl module that implements the features of Apache's mod_mime_magic module? (e.g., you give it a file handle, or data and it tries to autodetect the correct mime-type) Issac Internet is a wonderful mechanism for making a fool ofyourself in front of a very

Re: Help with parameters.]

2001-05-31 Thread Issac Goldstand
Original Message Subject: Help with parameters. Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 11:12:46 -0500 From: Nimmagadda Rajeev SRK [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: IBM Corporation. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, I have built modperl 1.25. I could run perl scripts fine. How can I send

Re: [OT] mod_mime_magic in perl?

2001-05-31 Thread Issac Goldstand
On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 05:21:22PM +0200, Issac Goldstand wrote: Does anyone know if there is a perl module that implements the features of Apache's mod_mime_magic module? (e.g., you give it a file handle, or data and it tries to autodetect the correct mime-type) Here's a module (File::Type

Re: Real Widgets and Template Languages

2001-05-31 Thread Issac Goldstand
At 12:31 PM 5/29/01 -0400, Stephen Adkins wrote: At 09:53 PM 5/29/2001 +0800, Gunther Birznieks wrote: At 05:17 PM 5/28/01 -0400, Stephen Adkins wrote: ... $widget = $wc-widget(first_name); print First Name: , $widget-html(), \n; A widget type has already been defined. So I

Re: Real Widgets and Template Languages

2001-05-31 Thread Issac Goldstand
At 09:14 PM 5/31/01 +0200, Issac Goldstand wrote: At 12:31 PM 5/29/01 -0400, Stephen Adkins wrote: At 09:53 PM 5/29/2001 +0800, Gunther Birznieks wrote: At 05:17 PM 5/28/01 -0400, Stephen Adkins wrote: ... [...] Complex Widget: Widget type=textbox maxsize=50 length=25 X

Re: Real Widgets and Template Languages

2001-05-29 Thread Issac Goldstand
My $0.02 on XML config files. Although they may be attractive to some, personally, I don't like them. I see XML is merely the expression of the configurable parameters of the object. IE it is just a means to the end. Personally, I would like to define my widget properties through a GUI and

Re: Apache::Session / No-Cookie-Tracking

2001-05-26 Thread Issac Goldstand
Is it a secure website? If so, it could be using the SSL unique ID which, if I'm not mistaken, is persistant through the SSL session (so the server doesn't have to redo the handshake on each connect). Issac - Original Message - From: Jonathan Hilgeman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL

Re: Handling the 'User pressed Stop button' case - not working

2001-05-26 Thread Issac Goldstand
Just wanted to comment that that idea won't work on uploads (where the delay is caused by information in the _request_ taking a long time to process [read send]). But I seem to remember hearing someone who was making a patch to add an upload hook for apache - do I remember correctly? Issac

Re: User tracking in IE 6

2001-05-26 Thread Issac Goldstand
I've already started toying with IE6 (to look at the XML handling, actually - which is pretty decent so far). But what IE 6 does is it somehow checks privacy statements (no idea how it looks at 'em, though). If there's a problem it shows you a tiny icon near the security icon. If it's

Re: [DIGEST] mod_perl digest 05/13/01

2001-05-23 Thread Issac Goldstand
-- mod_perl digest May 13, 2001 - May 19, 2001 -- Recent happenings in the mod_perl world...

Re: Apache::DBI missing methods?!

2001-05-16 Thread Issac Goldstand
Hi, I've just joined the list looking for an answer to this. A couple of others have posted the same problem but I couldn't find any answers. I'm running RH6.2 with standard Apache, perl and mod_perl rpms. I'm hitting a brick wall if I include a 'PerlModule Apache::DBI' line in

Where exactly is the Perl interpreter?

2001-05-10 Thread Issac Goldstand
I was just wondering- where exactly is the Perl interpreter in mod_perl 1.25 (for Apache 1.3) and where will it be in mod_perl 2 (Apache 2.0)? I assume in Apache 1.3 it's in shared memory, but I want to double check... Issac Internet is a wonderful mechanism for making a fool ofyourself

Re: forbidden vs. cookie

2001-05-01 Thread Issac Goldstand
I did this in a module of mine. I simply did a new Apache::Cookie and $cookie-bake() followed by $r-header_out(Location=http://go.here/now;); return HTTP_MOVED_TEMPORARILY; I chose TEMP_REDIRECT as I think it's befitting as the above is (also) from an AuthenHandler and therefore constitute a

Re: cookies work for some browsers, not for others... ?

2001-04-29 Thread Issac Goldstand
- Original Message - From: will trillich [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 9:44 PM Subject: cookies work for some browsers, not for others... ? [snip] cf !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//IETF//DTD HTML 2.0//EN HTMLHEAD TITLE302 Found/TITLE /HEADBODY

Re: cookies work for some browsers, not for others... ?

2001-04-29 Thread Issac Goldstand
- Original Message - From: will trillich [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 9:44 PM Subject: cookies work for some browsers, not for others... ? [snip] cf !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//IETF//DTD HTML 2.0//EN HTMLHEAD TITLE302 Found/TITLE /HEADBODY

[OT] mod_perl 2 question...

2001-04-26 Thread Issac Goldstand
I was just looking at Doug's overview of mod_perl 2, and was specifically intrigued by the PerlInterpLifetime directive, which got me sorta excited. It would appear to me, based on that, that by setting PerlInterpretLifetime connection, you could have a good chance at getting good

Re: Must restart Apache when any .pm changes?

2001-04-22 Thread Issac Goldstand
man Apache::StatINC Issac Internet is a wonderful mechanism for making a fool of yourself in front of a very large audience. --Anonymous Moving the mouse won't get you into trouble... Clicking it might. --Anonymous PGP Key 0xE0FA561B - Fingerprint: 7E18 C018 D623 A57B 7F37 D902 8C84

Re: modperl security model question

2001-04-17 Thread Issac Goldstand
darren chamberlain wrote: Be sure to check that $line is defined: Even better: perl use IO::File; my $input = IO::File-new("/tmp/tmppswd") || die "Couldn't open /tmp/foo.pl"; my $line = $input-getline() || 'some safe default value, like ""'; die "\$line is

Re: modperl security model question

2001-04-16 Thread Issac Goldstand
Hmm... There might be another solution, but it's probably a bit dangerous - and in any case, one of the more experianced mod_perl people would have to confirm that it works as expected... But it would seem to me that if you can figure out at an early enough stage who you want to run the process

Apache::Cookie-bake - When?

2001-03-27 Thread Issac Goldstand
I'm slowly porting my development scripts from mod_cgi to mod_perl. I just moved my main authentication handler to PerlFixupHandler (later I'll probably move it to AuthenHandler, but I just want it to work for now). In any case, all of the sudden, my upload script is choking and giving me

Re: [OT] ApacheCon BOF

2001-03-21 Thread Issac Goldstand
Randal 42 billion has the right sound to it. It's "the answer", after all, Randal a billion times over. :) I like it! Maybe a big round pearl with a smiley-face and a headband with feather sticking up in the back with the words "Don't Panic" in large friendly letters printed below :)

The right way to do authentication with mod_perl

2001-03-18 Thread Issac Goldstand
I've been self-debating a small issue for a small project that I'm developing, and thought I'd pass it on to see if I can get any feedback from the experts in the field: I have a pair of login/logout CGI scripts on a machine that I recently "bumped" from mod_cgi to mod_perl. They

Re: cgi_to_mod_perl manpage suggestion

2001-03-14 Thread Issac Goldstand
- Original Message - From: "Perrin Harkins" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Andrew Ho" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: "Issac Goldstand" [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:56 AM Subject: Re: cgi_to_mod_perl manpage suggestion On Tue

Re: cgi_to_mod_perl manpage suggestion

2001-03-14 Thread Issac Goldstand
- Original Message - From: "Bill Moseley" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:34 PM Subject: Re: cgi_to_mod_perl manpage suggestion At 03:34 PM 03/14/01 +0200, Issac Goldstand wrote: On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, Andrew Ho wrote: PHUm, you'

Varaible scope memory under mod_perl

2001-03-14 Thread Issac Goldstand
I have a module that I built on my own to handle user authentication. At the moment, every perl script that I have calls a method in this module using a cookie (Supplied by browser) as an argument. Eventually I want to turn this into a mod_perl handler which instead of returning the

Re: cgi_to_mod_perl manpage suggestion

2001-03-14 Thread Issac Goldstand
C018 D623 A57B 7F37 D902 8C84 7675 E0FA 561B - Original Message - From: "Perrin Harkins" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Issac Goldstand" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 9:30 PM Subject: Re: cgi_to_mod_perl manpage suggestion On Wed

cgi_to_mod_perl manpage suggestion

2001-03-13 Thread Issac Goldstand
, but if I am correct, it would probably be a good idea to change (or even remove) that line from the man-page. Issac Goldstand - Internet is a wonderful mechanism for making a fool of yourself in front of a very large audience. --Anonymous Moving the mouse won't get you

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