Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-30 Thread Jan Engelhardt
On Dec 29 2006 23:53, Bob S wrote: On Tuesday 26 December 2006 11:11, Marcus Meissner wrote: Received a boxed set of five old 007 movies remastered and enhanced on DVD from one of my children for Christmas. Popped one in my SuSE box, and guess what. Wouldn't play. Got a message that I needed

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-26 Thread Marcus Meissner
On Mon, Dec 25, 2006 at 04:54:34PM -0500, Fred A. Miller wrote: On Monday December 25 2006 5:10 am, Marcus Meissner wrote: You can't win the desktop if you don't even try. Right now, few in the Linux world are seriously trying. And time is running out.

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-26 Thread Mike McMullin
On Mon, 2006-12-25 at 08:11 -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote: On Monday 25 December 2006 07:10, Mike McMullin wrote: ... In fact, I see no danger to Linux because you cannot destroy an idea. Linux is too entrenched and too important to far too many individuals and organizations,

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-26 Thread Peter Van Lone
On 12/24/06, Randall R Schulz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can you define what you mean when you say: - enough of a critical mass - to matter - leverage control - onramps to the information highway - game over - meaningful access - most internet content - islands - hopeless, irrelevant rebellion -

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-26 Thread Mike McMullin
On Mon, 2006-12-25 at 18:46 -0500, Fred A. Miller wrote: On Monday December 25 2006 10:47 am, Mike McMullin wrote: But Ken, your federal government must have used some other OS before switching to Linux which means that 'they' are a fickle lot and will switch from Linux at a drop of a

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-26 Thread Randall R Schulz
Peter, On Tuesday 26 December 2006 08:54, Peter Van Lone wrote: ... Again, I agree with you generally Randall ... however I find myself wondering why your responses are framed in such agressive language? Ask the questions, push the author to be specific about what he means ... but I believe

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-26 Thread jdd
Randall R Schulz a écrit : Probably true, but I read and participate in a lot of on-line debates (not just on the SuSE forums), and I'm growing progressively more weary of and frustrated with poorly thought out, poorly phrased, overly emotional or downright irrelevant arguments people throw

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-26 Thread Randall R Schulz
On Tuesday 26 December 2006 09:15, jdd wrote: Randall R Schulz a écrit : Probably true, but I read and participate in a lot of on-line debates (not just on the SuSE forums), and I'm growing progressively more weary of and frustrated with poorly thought out, poorly phrased, overly

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-26 Thread J Sloan
Randall R Schulz wrote: Peter, On Tuesday 26 December 2006 08:54, Peter Van Lone wrote: ... Again, I agree with you generally Randall ... however I find myself wondering why your responses are framed in such agressive language? Ask the questions, push the author to be specific about

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-26 Thread Fred A. Miller
On Tuesday December 26 2006 11:59 am, Mike McMullin wrote: On Mon, 2006-12-25 at 18:46 -0500, Fred A. Miller wrote: On Monday December 25 2006 10:47 am, Mike McMullin wrote: But Ken, your federal government must have used some other OS before switching to Linux which means that 'they'

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-25 Thread Peter Nikolic
On Monday 25 December 2006 03:46, J Sloan wrote: Randall R Schulz wrote: Can you define what you mean when you say: - enough of a critical mass - to matter - leverage control - onramps to the information highway - game over - meaningful access - most internet content - islands

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-25 Thread Marcus Meissner
On Sun, Dec 24, 2006 at 08:25:59PM -0500, Fred A. Miller wrote: Linux on the desktop has been a year or two away for over a decade now, and there are reasons it's not there yet. To attract nontechnical end-users, a Linux desktop must work out of the box, ideally preinstalled by the hardware

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-25 Thread John Andersen
On Sunday 24 December 2006 19:48, Randall R Schulz wrote: On Sunday 24 December 2006 19:46, J Sloan wrote: Randall R Schulz wrote: Can you define what you mean when you say: - enough of a critical mass - to matter - leverage control - onramps to the information highway -

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-25 Thread Kenneth Schneider
On Sun, 2006-12-24 at 23:22 -0800, Robert Smits wrote: On Sunday 24 December 2006 19:39, Randall R Schulz wrote: Joe is absolutely correct to be worried about the future viability of Linux software. Of course, it's not game over today, but if you've looked at the implications of a future

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-25 Thread Basil Chupin
Kenneth Schneider wrote: On Sun, 2006-12-24 at 23:22 -0800, Robert Smits wrote: On Sunday 24 December 2006 19:39, Randall R Schulz wrote: Joe is absolutely correct to be worried about the future viability of Linux software. Of course, it's not game over today, but if you've looked at the

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-25 Thread jdd
Basil Chupin a écrit : But Ken, your federal government must have used some other OS before switching to Linux which means that 'they' are a fickle lot and will switch from Linux at a drop of a hat. If they abandoned the other OS then they will abandon Linux given the appropriate excuses. a

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-25 Thread steve reilly
On Monday 25 December 2006 03:49, Peter Nikolic wrote: Sorry, but if you're going to play dumb, it would be far too tedious and time consuming to try and bring you up to speed. Suffice it to say there is apparently a huge gap between our positions. Go back to sleep... Joe

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-25 Thread Mike McMullin
On Sun, 2006-12-24 at 21:34 -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote: On Sunday 24 December 2006 20:55, J Sloan wrote: ... No need. Perhaps I was too hasty to dismiss your questions - Each of the points you reference above can be easily grasped with just a bit of thought, but I hesitate to put a

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-25 Thread Mike McMullin
On Sun, 2006-12-24 at 23:32 -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote: On Sunday 24 December 2006 23:22, Robert Smits wrote: ... Joe is absolutely correct to be worried about the future viability of Linux software. Of course, it's not game over today, but if you've looked at the implications of a

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-25 Thread Mike McMullin
On Mon, 2006-12-25 at 23:59 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote: Kenneth Schneider wrote: On Sun, 2006-12-24 at 23:22 -0800, Robert Smits wrote: On Sunday 24 December 2006 19:39, Randall R Schulz wrote: Joe is absolutely correct to be worried about the future viability of Linux software. Of

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-25 Thread Randall R Schulz
On Monday 25 December 2006 07:10, Mike McMullin wrote: ... In fact, I see no danger to Linux because you cannot destroy an idea. Linux is too entrenched and too important to far too many individuals and organizations, including large business concerns, distributed all over the globe to

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-25 Thread Robert Smits
On Sunday 24 December 2006 23:32, Randall R Schulz wrote: On Sunday 24 December 2006 23:22, Robert Smits wrote: ... Joe is absolutely correct to be worried about the future viability of Linux software. Of course, it's not game over today, but if you've looked at the implications of a

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-25 Thread Randall R Schulz
On Monday 25 December 2006 07:25, Mike McMullin wrote: ... One ought to seriously consider that there are those Windows users who don't want DRM laden technology stopping them from doing what they want. The market has yet to through it's weight around on this issue, I suspect that is

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-25 Thread Robert Smits
On Monday 25 December 2006 02:10, Marcus Meissner wrote: But this is not a Linux problem, it is more a problem of the current state in the software industry where everything multimedia interesting requires per-copy royalties, NDAs, closed source and so on. But this makes it a Linux problem!

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-25 Thread Robert Smits
On Monday 25 December 2006 04:39, Kenneth Schneider wrote: We (Linux users) are at what 4-5 % of computer users? Actually closer to 10% Good. I haven't seen estimates that high, but I suspect it's because it's much harder to aggregate all those downloads and magazine DVDs. Much of our

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-25 Thread J Sloan
Peter Nikolic wrote: On Monday 25 December 2006 03:46, J Sloan wrote: Randall R Schulz wrote: Can you define what you mean when you say: - enough of a critical mass - to matter - leverage control - onramps to the information highway - game over - meaningful access - most internet

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-25 Thread J Sloan
Basil Chupin wrote: Kenneth Schneider wrote: Linux is used far and wide by the federal government for it to go away. But Ken, your federal government must have used some other OS before switching to Linux which means that 'they' are a fickle lot and will switch from Linux at a drop of a

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-25 Thread Randall R Schulz
On Monday 25 December 2006 08:24, Robert Smits wrote: On Sunday 24 December 2006 23:32, Randall R Schulz wrote: ... Every paragraph of your reply except one mentions DRM! If you see the entire issue of open computing platforms as one and the same with DRM, then you're not going to be

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-25 Thread James Tremblay
On Mon, 2006-12-25 at 10:13 -0800, J Sloan wrote: Basil Chupin wrote: Kenneth Schneider wrote: Linux is used far and wide by the federal government for it to go away. But Ken, your federal government must have used some other OS before switching to Linux which means that 'they' are

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-25 Thread Fred A. Miller
On Monday December 25 2006 5:10 am, Marcus Meissner wrote: You can't win the desktop if you don't even try. Right now, few in the Linux world are seriously trying. And time is running out. http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/world-domination/world-domination-201.h tml#id247970 But this is

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-25 Thread Fred A. Miller
On Monday December 25 2006 10:47 am, Mike McMullin wrote: But Ken, your federal government must have used some other OS before switching to Linux which means that 'they' are a fickle lot and will switch from Linux at a drop of a hat. If they abandoned the other OS then they will abandon

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-25 Thread Kai Ponte
On Sunday 24 December 2006 19:03, J Sloan wrote: John Meyer wrote: Fred A. Miller wrote: You can't win the desktop if you don't even try. Right now, few in the Linux world are seriously trying. And time is running out. I've heard this argument too many times to count. With all due

[opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-24 Thread Fred A. Miller
Linux on the desktop has been a year or two away for over a decade now, and there are reasons it's not there yet. To attract nontechnical end-users, a Linux desktop must work out of the box, ideally preinstalled by the hardware vendor. Right now, Linux is usually an aftermarket upgrade on

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-24 Thread John Meyer
Fred A. Miller wrote: Linux on the desktop has been a year or two away for over a decade now, and there are reasons it's not there yet. To attract nontechnical end-users, a Linux desktop must work out of the box, ideally preinstalled by the hardware vendor. Right now, Linux is usually an

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-24 Thread J Sloan
John Meyer wrote: Fred A. Miller wrote: You can't win the desktop if you don't even try. Right now, few in the Linux world are seriously trying. And time is running out. I've heard this argument too many times to count. With all due respect to the author, the argument is based on the

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-24 Thread Randall R Schulz
On Sunday 24 December 2006 19:03, J Sloan wrote: ... Unfortunately, it's not about being mainstream anymore - at this point, it's about viability, period. If linux can't achieve enough of a critical mass on the desktop to matter, microsoft will be able to leverage control of all the

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-24 Thread J Sloan
Randall R Schulz wrote: Can you define what you mean when you say: - enough of a critical mass - to matter - leverage control - onramps to the information highway - game over - meaningful access - most internet content - islands - hopeless, irrelevant rebellion - microsoft world

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-24 Thread Druid
Silent Night : Lyrics Play Music ! Silent night, holy night All is calm, all is bright Round yon Virgin Mother and Child Holy Infant so tender and mild Sleep in heavenly peace Sleep in heavenly peace Silent night, holy night! Shepherds quake at the sight Glories stream from heaven afar Heavenly

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-24 Thread J Sloan
Druid wrote: Silent Night : Lyrics Play Music ! Silent night, holy night All is calm, all is bright Round yon Virgin Mother and Child Holy Infant so tender and mild Sleep in heavenly peace Sleep in heavenly peace Silent night, holy night! Shepherds quake at the sight Glories

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-24 Thread Randall R Schulz
On Sunday 24 December 2006 19:46, J Sloan wrote: Randall R Schulz wrote: Can you define what you mean when you say: - enough of a critical mass - to matter - leverage control - onramps to the information highway - game over - meaningful access - most internet content - islands

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-24 Thread J Sloan
Randall R Schulz wrote: On Sunday 24 December 2006 19:46, J Sloan wrote: Randall R Schulz wrote: Can you define what you mean when you say: - enough of a critical mass - to matter - leverage control - onramps to the information highway - game over - meaningful access - most internet

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-24 Thread Randall R Schulz
On Sunday 24 December 2006 20:55, J Sloan wrote: ... No need. Perhaps I was too hasty to dismiss your questions - Each of the points you reference above can be easily grasped with just a bit of thought, but I hesitate to put a lot of work into explaining all these points if you're really

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-24 Thread Tom Patton
On Sun, 2006-12-24 at 20:55 -0800, J Sloan wrote: No need. Perhaps I was too hasty to dismiss your questions - Each of the points you reference above can be easily grasped with just a bit of thought, but I hesitate to put a lot of work into explaining all these points if you're really

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-24 Thread Robert Smits
On Sunday 24 December 2006 19:39, Randall R Schulz wrote: On Sunday 24 December 2006 19:03, J Sloan wrote: ... Unfortunately, it's not about being mainstream anymore - at this point, it's about viability, period. If linux can't achieve enough of a critical mass on the desktop to

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-24 Thread jdd
J Sloan a écrit : Sorry, but if you're going to play dumb, with several players... Linux is born quite many times agos and did not stopped to grow. Linux is now a major part of the server market and this alone make it's life sure. To hope find a solution to problems, these problems must

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-24 Thread Randall R Schulz
On Sunday 24 December 2006 23:22, Robert Smits wrote: ... Joe is absolutely correct to be worried about the future viability of Linux software. Of course, it's not game over today, but if you've looked at the implications of a future where every device, every piece of hardware has to meet

Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

2006-12-24 Thread Fred A. Miller
On Sunday December 24 2006 9:36 pm, John Meyer wrote: [snip] I've heard this argument too many times to count. With all due respect to the author, the argument is based on the assumption that we want to be mainstreram, that we want everybody and their grandmother to be running Linux.