Hannah Arendt is perhaps the pioneer. It's been 40 years since I read
it, but she did identify naziism communism as a unique species
called "totalitarian." One of her claims, if I remember correctly, was
that totalitarian terror did not begin until after it was technically no
longer needed
Sunday Journal, Washington DC
October 3, 1999
"On the Left"
Robert Naiman, Preamble Center
IMF, WTO: "I Can Change, I Can Change!"
"People say that I am evil -- they may be right. But
it's not as if I don't try -- I just screw up, try as
I might. But I can change, I can change!" So says the
J. T. Talmon,
J. L. Talmon
Michael Hoover
GOLD prices leapt as European central banks announced a five-year
moratorium on gold sales from official reserves, limiting new sales to
2,000 tonnes in total. Previously announced sales by Britain and
Switzerland will go ahead, so these two can take advantage of higher
prices.
Call your Rep and ask them to co-sponsor the Kucinich Bill, which would
force the IMF to close ESAF and cancel all debt owed to it by HIPC countries
and Haiti as a condition of receiving any resources from the U.S. or from
gold sales.
---
Jubilee South
Barkley:
Ricardo and I acquired a clear understanding of eavch other's position many
months ago on another list. He simply believes that European had some
qualties of the Weberian sort (rationality, etc.) before the modern era and
this implied that europe was bound to rise first asnd fastest. I
Rod:
I've got strogn criticisms of Eric Jones's _The European Miracle_ in my
book _The Colonizer's Model of the World._ Chapter 2 is entitled "The Myth
of the European Miracle."
On this particular point, he is resurrecting an old idea that has been
shown to be total false. All modern
Barkley:
Haven't time to deal adequately with your points. Two brief comments and
then (slyly) I'll post another message on the ag revo, from still another
real, genuine economist, Greg Clark.
Theres no question about the importance of those inventions in 1760-80 or
thereabouts. Traditional
From the front page of today's Financial Times:
Top Marx
Karl Marx has been voted the greatest thinker of the Millenium. He topped a
poll run by the BBC's Internet service News Online, with Albert Einstein in
second place and Sir Isaac Newton in third. The only living entrant on the
all-male
Yoshie, check out _The Credential society : an historical sociology of
education and stratification_ by Randall Collins (New York : Academic
Press, 1979).
However, your question is somewhat wrongly stated, since in all likelihood
most jobs college graduates get *nominally* require a college
Crash of '99?
If our booming economy suddenly collapses, the growing disparity between
rich and poor may prove to be a decisive factor in how hard we fall.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Merrill Goozner
Oct. 1, 1999 | WASHINGTON -- When future historians look over the list of
the 400 richest
I don't know. The Kuomintang was a strongly nationalist and
anti-imperialist party too.
It certainly has done a better job governing Taiwan--which is
nobody's colony or neo-colony these days--than the CCP has done
governing China...
Brad DeLong
This reminds me of a point that I meant to
Brad, without granting your thesis about the relative merits of the two
regimes, I know that the KMT had to be pushed into land reform when then were
on the mainland and about to lose. I suspect that competititon with Mainland
China made them act better, just as the Soviets made the U.S. behave
It would be odd if we did not recognise one of the most important events
of the history of the 20th century, which has influenced the pattern of
world politics ever since.
The Chinese revolution was a major blow against imperialism in what had
been a semi-colonial semi-feudal country. The
For non-initiates, the three basic conditions for economic efficiency,
without descending into technical jargon, are:
Consumption: for a given distribution of goods and services, there is no
voluntary trade between individuals that would make anyone feel better off;
Production: for a given
Barkley:
Ricardo and I acquired a clear understanding of eavch other's position many
months ago on another list. He simply believes that European had some
qualties of the Weberian sort (rationality, etc.) before the modern era and
this implied that europe was bound to rise first asnd
Journal of World Systems Research:
http://csf.colorado.edu/wsystems/jwsr.html
Ferdinand Braudel Center (Wallerstein is director)
http://fbc.binghamton.edu/
Andre G. Frank's home-page:
http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~ismall/gunder/assoc.html
Louis Proyect
Brad De Long [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/01/99 09:58AM It certainly has done
a better job governing Taiwan--which is
nobody's colony or neo-colony these days--than the CCP has done
governing China...
Charles: What is your evidence for this ? :)
Charles Brown
BLS DAILY REPORT, THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 30, 1999
Durable goods orders unexpectedly rose 0.9 percent in August, led by an
increase in demand for airplanes, automobiles, and other transportation
equipment. The increase followed a revised 4 percent gain in July, better
than the Commerce
It would be odd if we did not recognise one of the most important events
of the history of the 20th century, which has influenced the pattern of
world politics ever since.
The Chinese revolution was a major blow against imperialism in what had
been a semi-colonial semi-feudal country.
I don't
Does anyone here know who coined the phrase "knowledge worker"? The
Atlantic Monthly says the phrase is Peter Drucker's "own coinage".
Can anyone confirm/deny this?
Bill
Financial Times (London), April 17, 1998, Friday LONDON EDITION 2
HEADLINE: A new generation takes the spotlight:
At 06:58 AM 10/1/99 -0700, Bard deLong wrote:
I don't know. The Kuomintang was a strongly nationalist and
anti-imperialist party too.
It certainly has done a better job governing Taiwan--which is
nobody's colony or neo-colony these days--than the CCP has done
governing China...
Ah Brad, you
Andre G. Frank's home-page is at http://csf.colorado.edu/archive/agfrank/
Louis Proyect
(http://www.panix.com/~lnp3/marxism.html)
Louis,
Ooops! That's "Fernand Braudel Center," not
"Ferdinand."
Barkley Rosser
-Original Message-
From: Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Friday, October 01, 1999 11:16 AM
Subject: [PEN-L:12105] More links
Journal of World Systems
At 02:25 PM 10/1/99 -0400, Louis Proyect wrote:
Wojtek, I am trying to understand where you are coming from politically.
Your animus around these questions is found among right wing social
democrats, like Todd Gitlin and the Dissent Magazine crown. It is also
found in the right wing of the
On Fri, 1 Oct 1999, Louis Proyect wrote:
I don't know. The Kuomintang was a strongly nationalist and
anti-imperialist party too.
It certainly has done a better job governing Taiwan--which is
nobody's colony or neo-colony these days--than the CCP has done
governing China...
Brad
Max Sawicky wrote:
UI/Carroll Cox
Correction:
ISU/Carrol Cox
University of Illinois: Champaign Urbana Illinois
Illinois State Univ.: Normal Illinois
pen-l and lbo-talk folks,
Once again I am finding myself swamped with
work. I shall not bore you with the details, but the
hard fact is that I must deal with it by removing myself
for awhile from these lists again. This is not a protest
against either any thread, person, listowner, or
Michael:
Louis, I don't always agree with our friend from JHU, but I think that
you are going a bit over the top on this. If you look at the corporate
connections of my employers, you would not find a pretty picture. Maybe
Columbia is more pure.
Even Ricardo is talking nice now about Jim B.
Just reread your last posting andf then tell me it is not dripping with
insult.
I hope Michael is reading this message.
Yes, Jim, I did read your note. I did not notice Jim Devine's insults of
Thirdworldism dripping out of his notes. When you supply information, you're
interesting and
In that context, the strategy of denying the obvious and claiming that
ascribed characteristics, such as ethnicity or nationality, have no bearing
on attaining competence in European-invented games seems to be a convenient
way out of the more objectionable aspects of the human
On Fri, 1 Oct 1999, Louis Proyect wrote:
Michael:
Louis, I don't always agree with our friend from JHU, but I think that
you are going a bit over the top on this. If you look at the corporate
connections of my employers, you would not find a pretty picture. Maybe
Columbia is more pure.
Does anyone here know who coined the phrase "knowledge worker"? The
Atlantic Monthly says the phrase is Peter Drucker's "own coinage".
Can anyone confirm/deny this?
Bill
"J. Barkley Rosser, Jr." [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/01/99 02:59PM
Wojtek,
Math is of European origin? Last I checked
the zero came from India through the Arab world.
I have even seen some claims that the Chinese
had the zero before the Indians (eeek!).
And "algebra" is from an Arabic
At 02:59 PM 10/1/99 -0400, Barkley Rosser wrote:
Wojtek,
Math is of European origin? Last I checked
the zero came from India through the Arab world.
I have even seen some claims that the Chinese
had the zero before the Indians (eeek!).
And "algebra" is from an Arabic word. Tsk tsk,
Frank in his *World Accumulation 1492-1790* argues that the
contribution of colonial trade to primitive accumulation and
industrialization fluctutated with the business cycle. External factors
(trade) was important during recessions like the 17th century recession
and internal class
Of course a further wiggle on this is, even if
it were the "monolithicness" of China that held
it back (which I do not necessarily accept), this
does not explain why some of China's equally or
even more technologically advanced neighbors
such as Korea and Japan did not engage in such
voyages
Loyola/Jim Devine-- Vatican Council
this is inaccurate. I work for the Inquisition, which is a different arm of
the Vatican Octopus.
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://clawww.lmu.edu/Faculty/JDevine/JDevine.html
Ricardo may have in the previous debate claimed that europe had some special
intellectual power, but he did not do so in the debate on this list. The
Weberian hypothesis that Jim B. keeps putting into other people's mouth is
simply a fantasy of his own making. It is not implied in any
(from www.jhu.edu)
--Rockefeller Brothers Fund
--Ford Foundation
--W.K. Kellogg Foundation
--Industry Commission (Australia)
--InterAmerican Development Bank
--Robert Wood Johnson Foundation
--U.S. Department of Justice
Louis Proyect
(http://www.panix.com/~lnp3/marxism.html)
Jim B. and everybody else,
This will be my last posting on this tangled
set of threads on China, technology, colonialism,
the origins of capitalism, the ag revolution, Eurocentrism,
etc. etc. etc.
You've put forward some strong posts suggesting,
to use Devine terminology, that
Max Sawicky [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/01/99 04:12PM
Charles Brown-- anything I say will be racist, including this
((
Charles:
I think you are having flash backs to Henry Liu. Don't you mean:
Anything Max says will be a joke ( and liberal) including this ?
Go ahead and tell
Michael:
I don't know whether you're referring to David Landes's thesis about
medieval European clocks. He falsely asserts that they regulated labor time
-- actually nobody regulated labor time until there was the discipline of
factory labor and essentially an industrial revolution. Landes --
Louis,
I gotta disagree with this thread. This is just like the kind of garbage
that the Orangeist epigones of Teresa Ebert et al were throwing at Doug
Henwood and Ellen Wood a while back...Verso Press is less than perfect,
therefore Henwood and Wood are next to evil...or a little worse. This
Brad,
Well, of course, the great irony is that
the KMT did stuff in Taiwan that it never would
have don in China itself if it had not been booted
out. Most important was land reform. And, of
course, that was politically possible because
so many of the landlords were old connivers
with the
Louis, I am getting tired of your mode of operation where you decide that
someone is the _Enemy_ and then launch all sorts of attacks on them,
questioning their motives, etc. This is the method of sectarianism.
Of course, saying this simply sets me up to be on your enemy's list.
Jim Devine
Jim D:
I don't know where I got the idea that you teach in Canada. I hope I'm not
insulting you OR Canada. Apologies.
Jim B
Wojtek,
Math is of European origin? Last I checked
the zero came from India through the Arab world.
I have even seen some claims that the Chinese
had the zero before the Indians (eeek!).
And "algebra" is from an Arabic word. Tsk tsk, :-).
Barkley Rosser
-Original Message-
From:
(from www.jhu.edu) --Rockefeller Brothers Fund
. . .
Louis Proyect
ALL THE TREES IN THE FOREST MUST FALL!
More secret sponsors:
UIC/Jim Blaut-- the Pretzel Trust
LBO/Doug Henwood -- American Stock Exchange; State of New Jersey
CSU/Mike Perelman-- Fresh Fields; Hair Club for
This reminds me of a point that I meant to make the other day. Wojtek held
up Taiwan and South Korea as examples of successful capitalist revolutions,
as opposed to the semifeudal Latin American countries. It occurs to me that
land reform, industrialization and the growth of a middle class in
Brad,
Well, of course, the great irony is that
the KMT did stuff in Taiwan that it never would
have don in China itself if it had not been booted
out. Most important was land reform. And, of
course, that was politically possible because
so many of the landlords were old connivers
with
This was a joke.
Most of my jokes have a point.
Not all of them are funny.
That about sums it up.
mbs
Max Sawicky [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/01/99 04:12PM
Charles Brown-- anything I say will be racist, including this
Charles:
I think you are having flash backs to Henry Liu. Don't
Lou It is not up to you to define Wojtek or anyone else's political
position. He has quite rightly criticize the american left for some pretty
stupid positions. It is pretty obvious why it has so little influence.
I have put forward some of the same criticisms as Wojtek (and I would match
my
Louis, I don't always agree with our friend from JHU, but I think that
you are going a bit over the top on this. If you look at the corporate
connections of my employers, you would not find a pretty picture. Maybe
Columbia is more pure.
Even Ricardo is talking nice now about Jim B. So let's
Wojtek Sokolowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/01/99 04:06PM
I ma not a groupie of any intellectual celebrity in this country - i have
no interests in who's who (to the point that i flunk a class on new york
intellectuals taught by a former partisan review hack) the sectarianism of
the US left makes
At 12:49 PM 9/30/99 -1000, Steve Philion wrote:
That sounds like caricature, did Brenner ever say any such thing? I don't
think his argument came to one of no support for third world struggles.
How could the likes of a James Petras, to mention just one non Eurocentric
Marxist have much to do with
This whole thread should be flushed down the toilet.
If does not follow that because X works for Y and because Y is evil,
therefore everything X says is wrong.
It's a profoundly unpolitical way of dealing with disagreements, too.
Instead of arguing that X's arguments are illogical, against
Ah Brad, you are comparing apples and oranges again. Anyone can drive a
passenger car, but it ain't so easy to drive a semi-trailer without
automatic transmission and power-assisted gizmos.
What makes you think that the Kuomintang would do a better job in the
mainland?
wojtek
I suspect that
At 09:08 AM 10/1/99 -0500, you wrote:
Does anyone here know who coined the phrase "knowledge worker"? The
Atlantic Monthly says the phrase is Peter Drucker's "own coinage".
Can anyone confirm/deny this?
It's been around in the literature on professions, Magali Sarfatti Larson
might have used
Loyola/Jim Devine-- Vatican Council
this is inaccurate. I work for the Inquisition, which is a different arm
of
the Vatican Octopus.
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
What I've always said about Devine.
You can't torquemada anything.*
mbs
(*Mel Brooks, "History of the World")
Michael:
Me and Jim D electronically kissed and made up off-list.
Hamilton said the gold in Spain came mainly as rain. Seriously, I don't
remember what he said about the military.
Your idea about gold and silver in England affecting production sounds
sensible. It also soun ds like Hamilton if
Wojtek writes:
Ah Brad, you are comparing apples and oranges again. Anyone can drive a
passenger car, but it ain't so easy to drive a semi-trailer without
automatic transmission and power-assisted gizmos.
What makes you think that the Kuomintang would do a better job in the
mainland?
if the
The following is an example of how I use the Master List for open debate and
struggle (to drag whores and toadies out of the backrooms and/or expose
their unwillingness to debate). "Freedom of Speech" means nothing without
the guts to use it and defend it.
Jim C
James Craven
Clark College, 1800
Rod Hay wrote:
To attack racism you have to attack the concept of race. To
attack imperialism you have to attack the concept of the nation state.
This is the sort of left-Hegelian reasoning that leads both you and Wojtek
astray. What could 'attacking the concept' of race or the nation state
Rod Hay:
Are you implying that Ricardo is a Weberian on some lists (H-world and WSN)
but a Marxist on Pen-L? I don't have time to dredge up his many eloquent
postings in defense of Weber's theory of unique European "rationality." He
might want to make the argument here himself.
In any event,
List: If anyone fails to see the dripping Eurocentrism in the following,
they should have their eyes examined.
Jim B
"[To] defeat Eurocentrism they defy
the common sense and claim that non-Europeans are or have been on a par
with the Europeans in the European-defined game. In so doing, however,
Trying to avoid making individual list members the focus of the debate.
Some of us make easy targets but try to to resist the temptation.
Courtesy of the California Hair Club
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL
Yoshi. The question of anti racism comes down to question of practice. If
when arguing with those who think in racial terms one denies the validity of
their concepts, one is battling on the ideological front. That, of course,
is not all one should do. Since most of us are educational workers
I don't think anybody on list consciously supports imperialism.
Some people on the list get carried away.
I agree with much of Louis's political objectives, but as Carrol
correctly noted, it does no good to attack individuals personally rather
than their ideas.
Max then chimed in with his
Jim B. says that Brenner claimed that Flemish agriculture with the
exception that proved the rule. My reading of agricultural history
indicated that much of the so-called agricultural revolution came from
techniques developed in the part of Europe.
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
To go around attacking people for being racist when you define the term so
that it means anything you say it does, is not helpful. Unless you can show
concrete examples of Wojtek's actions which have harmed anyone on the basis
of the colour of their skin, you have no grounds upon which to call
Yes Jim B. you are right. It was uncalled for and completely ungrammatical.
But at the same time, Ricardo has not been pushing a Weberian line on this
list (I don't know what he does on others). As far as Weber is concerned, he
did say at one time that you misunderstood Weber. Whether that is
I was thinking of Louis Mumford's description of the monasteries using the
clock to create regular patterns of behavior, and that the discipline of the
monasteries and the army created the model for factory discipline.
"James M. Blaut" wrote:
Michael:
I don't know whether you're referring
Rod Hay wrote:
Save you wrath for the
real racists and real imperialists, but of course attacking them might put
you at danger, so you spend your time attacking left wing scholars.
I agree Lou was in error -- but the error is switching from principled
argument to speculation re personal
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Louis Proyect
NGO's are one of the main
instruments of imperialist co-optation today. They were funded by George
Soros all throughout Eastern Europe and helped to destroy left-wing
opposition
Jim D: I've summarized my position in the post that you are responding to.
I don't have time to elaborate it. If you weant to go further, I'd ask you
to read my Brenner critique --and, by the way, re-read Brenner's three
articles, because he doesn't say what you say he says. About: landlords.
"James M. Blaut" wrote:
I haven't read Mumford for decades, but I do know that this argument, that
Europeans, way back in history, had acquired unique habits and qualities
giving them a leg up toward modernity, is traditional (and Weberian).
I wasn't thinking so much unique habits and
On Fri, 1 Oct 1999, Max Sawicky wrote:
More secret sponsors:
OU/Dennis Redmond-- Id Software
Shocked, I am shocked at these baseless, groundless, modemless and
probably ISP-less accusations. These proletarian hands would never soil
themselves with the ill-gotten lucre of evil running dog
78 matches
Mail list logo
