At 31/07/02 08:50 -0400, Louis Proyect quoted from his article on
Zimmerwald in response to my comment:
>Chris Burford:
>Most relevantly on this particular debae, I think Lenin was wrong at
>Zimmerwald, and I appreciate Louis Proyect highlighting this issue some
>years ago and arguing that Len
At 31/07/02 11:56 +, Se c/o Natasha Potter wrote:
>To top this off, the loss of national control over interest rates will
>also have an impact - particularly given the EU limitations on Debt and
>Governmental Spending. Effectively, Governments will be forced to choose
>between increasing
Arthur Scargill is due to resign today after 20 years as the leader of the
(British) National Union of Mine Workers.
Despite great courage he was beaten by Mrs Thatcher's attack on the miners.
The Union, which was said to have 250,000 members in 1981, is now said to
have only 5,000.
In 1996 S
This issue was also carried on page 4 on the Financial Times on Friday
which may have been based on the Treasury sources that Michael White
mentions in his Guardian article below.
It is an interesting conflict about the mechanics of market socialism. The
government has just published performan
>Devine, James wrote:
>
>>does anyone know where I can find G.B. Shaw's theory of
>>exploitation (based on rent theory)?
>>
>>Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] & http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
>>
>
>
>
>If you want Shaw's own words, why not try "The Intelligent Woman's
>Guide to Socialism and Ca
>I hope this helps to clarify the political and methodological differences
>between Louis Proyect and myself on the question of Europe and the struggle
>against US hegemonism. I hope it helps progressive people in the US to feel
>more confident in looking for international allies in this global s
My last word on this. It's obvious that Michael is predisposed to find
nothing I say interesting, and to let you know that you shouldn't either.
>
>Justin: >Other things being equal, freedom is good.<
>
>what if the increased freedom of the working class reduces the freedom of
>the capitalists?
>From: "Devine, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: "Pen-l (E-mail)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: [PEN-L:28969] convergence?
>Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:34:29 -0700
>
>[comments?]
>
>THE ECONOMIST / July 20, 2002
>
>Convergence, period
>
>MOST people who have a view on
KENNY
A city boy, Kenny, moved to the country and bought a donkey from an old
farmer for $100.00. The farmer agreed to deliver the donkey the next day.
The next day the farmer drove up and said, "Sorry son, but I have some bad
news, the donkey died."
Kenny replied, "Well then, just gi
The Hindu
Monday, Jul 29, 2002
Ending destitution
By Jean Dreze
Food transfers to the destitute are a good way of using the surplus grain
stocks.
SAMRI DEVI is a 70-year-old widow who lives in Kusumatand, an impoverished
hamlet in Palamau district, Jharkhand. Her son, Bhageshwar Bhuiya, suffe
Is this discussion or the elitism thread going anywhere?
On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 05:25:03PM -0400, Doug Henwood wrote:
> Justin Schwartz wrote:
>
> >Let us criticize by all means, and experiment, and learn. In an
> >off-list discussion Jim D accused me of being "vague" and
> >"ambiguous" about
Devine, James wrote:
> does anyone know where I can find G.B. Shaw's theory of exploitation
> (based on rent theory)?
>
> Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] & http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
>
If you want Shaw's own words, why not try "The Intelligent Woman's Guide
to Socialism and Capital
I think that I recall it being discussed in Wicksteed's Common Sense.
Probably in Shaw: The Jevonian Criticism of Marx, 1885
http://www.econlib.org/library/Wicksteed/wkCS0.html
On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 03:26:09PM -0700, Devine, James wrote:
> does anyone know where I can find G.B. Shaw's theory o
Title: query: George Bernard Shaw
does anyone know where I can find G.B. Shaw's theory of exploitation (based on rent theory)?
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] & http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
At 02:34 PM 07/31/2002 -0700, you wrote:
[comments?]
THE ECONOMIST / July 20, 2002
Convergence, period
The Economist is the most loathsome economic periodical I have ever read.
It is such a mass of confusion, legerdemain, prevarication, and
obfuscation that I do not think it is worth wastin
Title: RE: [PEN-L:28970] Re: RE: liberalism
I wrote: >>It's important to remember that the New Deal also had lots of support for businesses, too.<<
Justin: >Like I said, it saved c pitalism.<
there's a difference: individual businesses often care about nothing but their own profit. It's on
Of what use is a
>concept that includes the soviets of the revolutionary period and the U.S.
>Senate today under the same classification?
>
>Doug
Well, they have this in common: they are both government institutions
staffed by representatives who are elected by the people they are supposed
to
>
>It's important to remember that the New Deal also had lots of support for
>businesses, too.
Like I said, it saved c pitalism.
>
>Further, the "progressive" -- or better, the democratic -- aspects of New
>Deal liberalism did NOT arise from "liberalism" as much as from mass
>struggles (the Vet
Title: convergence?
[comments?]
THE ECONOMIST / July 20, 2002
Convergence, period
MOST people who have a view on the matter--regardless of whether they are critics of globalisation or advocates--accept that global inequality is getting worse. Most official agencies either say or seem to
Justin Schwartz wrote:
>Let us criticize by all means, and experiment, and learn. In an
>off-list discussion Jim D accused me of being "vague" and
>"ambiguous" about liberal democracy, which I am not, but my
>conception is very minimal, and compatible with many
>implementations. Including a w
>
>We need to continue to criticize _what is_, and be aware that only as
>that criticism turns into practice under given (and now unknown)
>conditions will we have more than an inkling of what might be the
>positive results of that criticism.
>
Let us criticize by all means, and experiment, and l
> "Devine, James" wrote:
>
>
> Self-government? this means profound democracy to me
I like the term "profound democracy" better than "direct democracy,"
which (both in its positive and its negative aspects) is tied to
specific social structures of the past. For that reason also it
contributes
Title: RE: [PEN-L:28960] Re: liberalism
I don't know of anyone in favor of _direct_ democracy. I thought people were arguing for delegatory democracy, in which delegates can be recalled easily, fewer government officials are immune to democratic control, and there are clear limits on the incom
Title: RE: [PEN-L:28928] liberalism
Justin:>>>These (Manchester and New Deal liberalisms) are economic liberalisms. I'm a political liberal, like Mill and Rawls.<<<
me:>>please explain.<<
Justin:>OK. Manchester liberalism is what we now call libertarianism, favoring a nightwatchman state an
At 11:14 AM 07/31/2002 -0700, Ian wrote:
>[problem solved; all is better now!]
>
>There is nothing uniquely American about corporations that cook
>their books, or accountants and bankers who countenance it, or
>executives who use corporate treasuries as personal piggy banks.
>
>But it is probably
[problem solved; all is better now!]
'Political Market' Reigns
When Business Scandals Hit, Reaction Was Swift
By Steven Pearlstein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, July 31, 2002; Page E01
There is nothing uniquely American about corporations that cook
their books, or accountants and bank
- Original Message -
From: "Justin Schwartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>Please what? Ravi goes on about sort sort wierd context relative
>truth, so I
>just quoted Ari's old definition that no one has improved on these
>2500
>years.
>
>
>=
>
>Truth is more problematic than
It is interesting to look at the Jugoslav experience with
representative vs direct democracy to show some light on this
question. Direct democracy was just not feasible at the commune,
republic or national level so the delegate system was used with
elections conducted using constitutencies fr
[anyone know what they mean in the last sentence, "reduced supply" of what?
"wider spreads" with between corp bonds and treasuries? I just read today
that spreads had tightened. I assume this announcement means the 30-yr will
be back pretty soon.
US Treasury has no plans to resume 30-yr bond;
Steve Diamond wrote:
>Well, Walzer certainly has a "just war" viewpoint - but fortunately
>I wasn't asked to endorse his line when I submitted the review!
>They have moved well away from their old Irving Howe style - with
>for example some interesting debates on Seattle etc. with younger
>act
Bounced from Hari
ORIGINAL: "I wasn't talking about the author. But the book is about ol'
Norman, if I
recall. jks"
Reply: Yes of course you are right. I was just suggesting if anyone
wanted to find said book - NB was not the target.
By the way your cataloguing of "Let me count the ways" of being
Worth remembering:
1) 55% of the population never owned stock - throughout the bubble.
2) Of those who did - the vast majority owned less than 25,000 in stock
- purchased through the 401 K plans they were given in place of
pensions, or via IRAs they were told to use in place of pensions.
And e
Justin Schwartz wrote:
>
> >
> >
>
> I have already responded noless dogmatically.
"No Sir, I am not dogmatic, I am deliberate."
Samuel Johnson
:-)
Carrol
This is the plane on which this discussion needs to proceed. There are
contradictions, that's why I have spent a while replying. I just don't think
that they lie at the point where you are making the call.
First, you support British entry into the Euro. Aside from it's short-term
benefits to B
>
> > > > representative govt - NO [ditto]
>
>Carrol continues:
> > >This form of democracy has never produced democracy -- and it never
> > >will.
>
> > >It's replacement will have to be worked out in practice -- not from a
> > >blueprint I or anyone else can provide at this time.
>
> >
Title: RE: [PEN-L:28933] FYI: Review on Chinese economy in Dissent
Well, Walzer certainly has a "just war"
viewpoint - but fortunately I wasn't asked to endorse his line when I submitted
the review! They have moved well away from their old Irving Howe style -
with for example some interestin
>
> >As I said, almost everyone. jks
>
>Almost everyone is right; as far as I can tell, yer man Posner is not in
>favour of representative government or of "extensive civil rights and
>liberties" in as much as these can't be derived from property rights.
That's unfair to Posner. His notion of
Title: FW: [baker-data-commentary] GDP Byte, 7/31/02
Does the story below fit with the predictions of Stephen Roach about the revision of GDP data? It sure doesn't look good for the US's ability to avoid the second dip of the Dubya-shaped recession. This is also not so good for the rest of the
>As I said, almost everyone. jks
Almost everyone is right; as far as I can tell, yer man Posner is not in
favour of representative government or of "extensive civil rights and
liberties" in as much as these can't be derived from property rights.
What's your argument against his utopia of a smal
joanna bujes wrote:
>I'm confused. The Federal Reserve, despite its name, is very much a
>private concern, right? So, why should it not buy equities?
Not "very much" a private concern. It's a mixed bag. The Board of
Governors, based in Washington, are appointed by the pres and
confirmed by th
Title: RE: [PEN-L:28943] Re: Re: liberalism
>>Justin Schwartz wrote:
>>> As I said before, almost everyone here--you too--favors
> > > univ. suffrage --- Yes [Carrol's response]
> > > extensive civil rights and liberties Yes [ditto]
> > > representative govt - NO [ditt
I believe that the statement by Chris Burford is worth examining.
>>But most importantly, geopolitically, it is necessary now to call into
>>existence the Old World to redress the balance of the New.
>
>I have no idea what this means.
the possibility that this might be an important politica
Title: Palestinian resistance
from SLATE's news summary:>In a story that has been slowly percolating in the papers since Monday, the [Washington POST] fronts news that Palestinians in the West Bank city of Nablus have been defying the Israeli army's near 24-hour curfew. The Post calls the curf
At 31/07/02 11:56 +, you wrote:
>Your argument, in short, is that progressive, perhaps even critical,
>support for the EU project is necessary to counter the growth of US
>hegemony and that this is more true to the spirit of Lenin than blindly
>quoting him *out of context*. I am sure that L
>
>
>Justin Schwartz wrote:
> >
> > >>
> > As I said before, almost everyone here--you too--favors
>
> > univ. suffrage --- Yes
>
> > extensive civil rights and liberties Yes
>
> > representative govt - NO
>
>This form of democracy has never produced democracy -- and it never
>w
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 16:08:55 -0400
From: T P <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Ohioan arrested by Israeli military- press release
Ohioan Arrested by Israeli Military
7-29-02
For Immediate Release
[NABLUS] Travis Lee Pugh, a U.S. citizen from Columbus, Ohio, was
arrested July 28 by Israeli soldier
Village Voice, July 31 - August 6, 2002
How Big Business Feeds You Hazardous Food
Toxic to the Tongue
by Lenora Todaro
Frontier communities had a quick and certain remedy for anyone who poisoned
the town's well: they hanged the son-of-a-bitch. Today, though, when the ag
economists draw up the
Chris Burford:
>Most relevantly on this particular debae, I think Lenin was wrong at
>Zimmerwald, and I appreciate Louis Proyect highlighting this issue some
>years ago and arguing that Lenin was correct.
Karl Marx and other socialists formed the first Socialist International in
1864. Rivalry
The Times of India
SUNDAY, JULY 28, 2002
Pak court awards death sentence for blasphemy
PTI
ISLAMABAD: A Pakistani man, who once worked for the husband of noted human
rights activist Asma Jahangir, has been sentenced to death by a court in
Lahore for making derogatory remarks about Islam.
Besi
Your argument, in short, is that progressive, perhaps even critical, support
for the EU project is necessary to counter the growth of US hegemony and
that this is more true to the spirit of Lenin than blindly quoting him *out
of context*. I am sure that Louis properly understands this position.
Having dealt with the question of fact I return to this theme because the
post has the merit of counterposing two political positions fairly clearly
At 24/07/02 09:40 -0400, Louis Proyect wrote:
>Chris Buford:
>>But most importantly, geopolitically, it is necessary now to call into
>>exist
>From: "Davies, Daniel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>At 09:16 AM 07/30/2002 -0400, you wrote:
> >4] To what degree has the bubble (aka "new") economy been nothing more
>than
> >an elaborate and calculated scheme to steal money from employees and
>middle
> >class investors, or was it more fortuitous ac
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