Re: [PEN-L] Art as Commodity

mean. Or the massive influence of WalMart purchasing power by the latest info technology. No one could look at art now and have a clue from Benjamin about what is going on. In that light what LP says about movies is equally not engaging in what information that is interactive does. thanks, Doyle

Re: [PEN-L] LM leaving list for a while/China's socialist path

Greetings Economists, On Feb 18, 2008, at 8:20 PM, ravi wrote: I believe they are geniuses of nothing, even if they tend to offer the polemical, unless of course we consider success a sole measure of genius. i.e., Fox News is successful at riling up the obvious suspects and the cheapest

Re: [PEN-L] LM leaving list for a while/China's socialist path

to take advantage of skilled political thinking to build something besides argumentation. After that one will look back on this as a wonder. A wonder why people tolerated the limitations when they wanted to build socialist community. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Conspiracies

Greetings Economists, On Feb 13, 2008, at 7:38 AM, Max B. Sawicky wrote: I'm as paranoid as anyone, but moreover, the MP had an objective that few patriots could object to, in contrast to some scheme to murder thousands of innocent citizens. Doyle; Are we talking about Hiroshima? Doyle

Re: [PEN-L] David Brooks predicts a centrist Democratic president whoever wins

Greetings Economists, On Feb 13, 2008, at 9:17 AM, Doug Henwood wrote: is the perfect instrument for a homegrown structural adjustment program. Doyle; A structural adjustment is coming whoever wins the presidency. Michael speaks to that; MP writes, Isn't this a common pattern, that the left

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

Greetings Economists, On Feb 10, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Max B. Sawicky wrote: even though the stuff coming out of the tap is periodically found to have uncomfortable levels of doo-doo. Doyle; My friend Ellen is a water quality engineer with a local water district. She says you are wrong. Give an

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

Greetings Economists, On Feb 10, 2008, at 10:39 AM, Jim Devine wrote: do we really grow rice in California? Doyle; http://www.calrice.org/ Oh Yes Indeedy. Doyle

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

Greetings Economists, On Feb 10, 2008, at 10:26 AM, Leigh Meyers wrote: I was being sarcastadonic. I was playing the opportunistic raptor consumer of the lumbering sarcastadonic. Yummy tender free range sarcastdonics. How satisfying to kill them, grind them up and spread their remains back

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

Greetings Economists, On Feb 10, 2008, at 4:48 PM, Max B. Sawicky wrote: Don't read this until after dinner. Doyle; :-) I grew up in Texas where fluoride was a perennial question mark about safe to drink water. You found one reference which is a dandy, questioning New York drinking water,

Re: [PEN-L] Let.s Go Hillary

Greetings Economists, On Feb 7, 2008, at 3:36 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By 1972, weren't most of its members _employed_ by the FBI? Doyle; I'd like to second Michael's gentle call here to be nice. At best this 'rehashes' nothing very interesting about economics, and perhaps more to the

Re: [PEN-L] A comment on No Country for Old Men

bigger and more powerful as we once again see what is to be done. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] The Political Economy of Peer Production

Greetings Economists, On Feb 6, 2008, at 11:19 AM, Jayson Funke wrote: Any thoughts on the following article? Doyle; Strikes me as rather glib with jargon. P2P has generated a lot of press around how to distribute movies hence the sign in the window of a Blockbuster outlet. P2P comes

Re: [PEN-L] I hope you all vote(d) for Obama

Greetings Economists, On Feb 5, 2008, at 8:08 AM, ravi wrote: I really, really, really hope you are joking... (no way I am voting for Obama!) Doyle; Where to next for the U.S.? To give my context, DLC candidates Obama and Clinton won't seriously challenge the status quo. What can the left

Re: [PEN-L] [lbo-talk] I hope you all vote(d) for Obama

gives the hard right much to fall back on around a strong military. Hence a debate about the stability of the U.S. and what that looks like. What is there for a the left to work upon? thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] [lbo-talk] I hope you all vote(d) for Obama

Greetings Economists, On Feb 5, 2008, at 9:25 AM, Jim Devine wrote: in any event, to have any president do anything decent or progressive, we need a mass movement to keep him or her honest. Doyle; How? thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] I hope you all vote(d) for Obama

Greetings Economists, On Feb 5, 2008, at 9:56 AM, Doug Henwood wrote: This is the most amazing case of mass wishful thinking I've ever seen. Doyle; The U.S. is moving left unlike Kerry's election. Who one votes for seems to me the wrong place to ask questions. Nor do I think this is about

Re: [PEN-L] [lbo-talk] I hope you all vote(d) for Obama

. can't control. Dragging their feet pushes the public toward left stances about energy unfairness. Going toward energy reform asks for global frameworks to be built upon new basis. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] [lbo-talk] I hope you all vote(d) for Obama

Greetings Economists, On Feb 5, 2008, at 11:10 AM, Doug Henwood wrote: All this Kennedy aura around Obama is really creepy. Doyle; The Kennedys represent the left wing of the democrats. That is easy to understand. John ushered in the sixties in most peoples mind. That is all this is about.

Re: [PEN-L] I hope you all vote(d) for Obama

Greetings Economists, On Feb 5, 2008, at 11:03 AM, Charles Brown wrote: CB: Don't you think McCain will win ? Doyle; :-) I don't think that would be so bad. It would destroy Hillary and Bill. It would stir up a lot of anti-racist sentiments. He is as likely to lead the country over the

Re: [PEN-L] [lbo-talk] I hope you all vote(d) for Obama

Greetings Economists, On Feb 5, 2008, at 12:00 PM, Leigh Meyers wrote: WTF? Doyle; Popular perceptions, not reality. What would most people say if asked if T Kennedy was on the right or left of the democrats? Left. So? Doyle

Re: [PEN-L] [lbo-talk] I hope you all vote(d) for Obama

Greetings Economists, On Feb 5, 2008, at 12:06 PM, Max B. Sawicky wrote: It's as if the only way people can think is in terms of alternative myths. Doyle; Creepy huh? I look at your use of the state of feeling, revulsion, as being mythic as well. Literally if you say on a very large scale

Re: [PEN-L] [lbo-talk] I hope you all vote(d) for Obama

Greetings Economists, On Feb 5, 2008, at 12:21 PM, Leigh Meyers wrote: Those popular perceptions need to die, Doyle; Sure. They would die over time as a left resurges in the U.S. They are a flimsy tissue of lies that a mass movement would sweep away. Like Jim Devine wrote earlier in this

Re: [PEN-L] I hope you all vote(d) for Obama

Greetings Economists, On Feb 5, 2008, at 2:00 PM, Charles Brown wrote: Of course, there's a small possibility otherwise, but the Rep will probably win. Doyle; I think it unlikely. Still there are many months ahead. I am inclined right now to see the demos winning by wide margins. That win

Re: [PEN-L] Bizarre nationalist outburst

. as much as a broad sort of shift in the U.S. as the center of neoliberalism falters which in turn gives a space for the left to grow as well. The more fuel, the more likely something will emerge for the left to get hold of and build something. That seems to me predictable though slow. thanks, Doyle

Re: [PEN-L] No Hair Shirt Solutions to Global Warming - now available as a free download.

This appears to be down right now. Not available, giving a server error. On Feb 3, 2008, at 1:24 PM, Gar Lipow wrote: Cooling It: No Hair Shirt Solutions to Global Warming an optimistic book about a gloomy subject - the need to reduce fossil fuel use to fight global warming - is now available

Re: [PEN-L] Bizarre nationalist outburst

LP. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] light bulbs -- not a joke.

some insights. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Cap and Trade versus Carbon Tax

mutter about because there is no resource feasible to provide this simple look see? If a left movement crystalized would it suggest answers? How? What is an international regime going to look like? thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] light bulbs -- not a joke.

people around a common position matched to our times. That's how I would re- phrase your point anyway. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] light bulbs -- not a joke.

hard not to include for example, literacy, as a part of the on-going human system, how do we deal with imbalances? thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] light bulbs -- not a joke.

fuels as policy can neglect such issues. However, I would strongly advocate hazards waste be part of the solution. With CFLs there is nothing being done about mercury clean up. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Cap and Trade versus Carbon Tax

. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] query: laws of models

a model? It has definite limits of what we know by seeing the photograph. So is writing with images model like, or only writing mathematical script? thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] query: laws of models

Greetings Economists, On Jan 23, 2008, at 10:19 AM, Shane Mage wrote: I understand that one can photograph the boundaries or the contents of a space. But how does one photograph a space? Doyle, Hmmm, I think because I shoot a lot of photos, under a lot of conditions I don't make the

Re: [PEN-L] The silence is defeaning...

Greetings Economists, On Jan 16, 2008, at 9:57 AM, ravi wrote: What, no comments on my Krugman cartoon? ;-) Doyle; What cartoon? I have not seen anything from Ravi with a cartoon. thanks, Doyle

Re: [PEN-L] The silence is defeaning...

which puts value on huge piles of images rather than small singlets is asking how to 'datamine' meaning in many rather than one. To connect huge amounts instead of a page. That's the economics of a new aesthetic. Bravo Ravi MORE MORE! thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Culturnal homogenization/hybridization -- some incomplete thoughts.

of producing new data layers upon the original file. If reuse is not done the server farms fill up with data and knowledge work grinds to a halt. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Culturnal homogenization/hybridization -- some incomplete thoughts.

. How do we form ties strong enough to stand up against the machine? We do that by sharing information and working together to form human social ties. The vast over production of information on global networks offers cheaper means to build social ties on levels never before possible. thanks, Doyle

Re: [PEN-L] Culturnal homogenization/hybridization -- some incomplete thoughts.

; How many times do I have to bring up one-to-many before you get it about that information structure? thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Culturnal homogenization/hybridization -- some incomplete thoughts.

the increase in information production opens the door to more information in location. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] US EMpire Better than Alternative - Huh?

Greetings Economists, The costs of empires is high. One asks why Britain came down? Projecting military power around the world is costly. Community based resistance which arms itself with current weapons can't be militarily defeated unless the empire adopts scorched earth techniques. Which are

Re: [PEN-L] US EMpire Better than Alternative - Huh?

that disturbs their peace in which case Michael Perelman is forced to act on their behalf. Doyle, I disagree. This is specious. Thanks, Doyle Saylor

[PEN-L] Solar grand plan?

because oil can't be replaced. Which seemingly this proposal meets handily replacing oil. H? thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] US EMpire Better than Alternative - Huh?

Greetings Economists, On Jan 11, 2008, at 8:53 AM, Leigh Meyers wrote: It's EXACTLY what listservs are for... Doyle, I'm not sure what you mean by exactly here, but what a listserv doesn't do is provide an environment for working on a topic in the sense that wikis offer organized means of

Re: [PEN-L] Solar grand plan?

cells theoretically reaching 30% efficiency converting energy to electricity. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Solar grand plan?

Greetings Economists, On Jan 11, 2008, at 10:01 AM, Shane Mage wrote: This, of course, requires a huge dose of government enterprise and economic planning. Doyle; I assume the pressure to move would come from people seeing global warming encroaches. I don't think this is especially useful as

Re: [PEN-L] Solar grand plan?

Greetings Economists, On Jan 11, 2008, at 3:48 PM, Gar Lipow wrote: It is a very hopeful thing, but not something you can put an ETA on. Doyle; They demonstrated it could be fabricated using chip techniques. That aside, what I see is not so much lab work might happen as that it could develop

Re: [PEN-L] Obama's economic advisers

in the economy. They are edging toward offering reforms to assuage the pain rising. For what that is worth. Probably not much. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Richard Greener on being paralyzed

beneficiary understands how human beings connect or think. At any rate I'd like to see more capable disabled thinkers be showed cased and let that be the standard to judge such movies. Thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Download uproar

(shared) information. No small file can stand long in the face of massive libraries when the cost must fall to create massive networked information. No small file can demand more than it is worth in a networked Information culture. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Download uproar

be shared. Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Download uproar

clashes over intellectual property. A socialist can use massive server farms to provide community information in a way that capitalist can't. It's the international global community part of file sharing that needs to be developed. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

Greetings Economists, On Dec 22, 2007, at 6:36 AM, Doug Henwood wrote: Of course, the crises of the 1930s led to fascism and the New Deal, not revolution, so the empirical record isn't impressive. Doyle; Russia and China during this period were in the throws of revolution. This comment is a

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

of international crisis for the great global powers of 1914, or the U.S. 2007 I am aiming at. Russia attempted to internationalize and failed. We might see in a new crisis for the U.S. the opportunity to extend again an internationalist structure. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

they succeed in righting the U.S. ship to continue course as the great global super power? I say this is systemic crisis in the U.S. already, and we can put the start at the beginning of the Gulf war, but fomented not so much by the war as by bubble economics. Thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

are in the midst of the growth of opposition to neoliberalism which is their crisis of legitimacy. Not capitalism's. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Fed IS footing bill for lenders' crisis (that is, they will make us pay for it)

the capitalist to the bargaining table. They won't let it rip because they know that would permanently put the U.S. down. It would generate sufficient political forces in the U.S. to re-align political forces meaning end the neo- liberals. End the global empire dream. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] embarrassing question

can attribute the quote. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Language was And where do babies come from?

of a Grizzly bear male that eats young Grizzly bears makes no sense in the social unit. Because storage of the cultural social being is not particularly important for large predators that can do as they wish, feel impelled to do. Thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Language was And where do babies come from?

toward that which can be. We avoid the vagaries, the traps of starvation, lack of oxygen because then things continue. And that continuance is threatened by each step toward more universal social structures by new unforeseen consequences which we continue to build upon. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Language was And where do babies come from?

the world. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Economic woes on the horizon

. But the base in single countries, and Cuba really offers a lot of experience, are resources Marx didn't have. Development in the face of global catastrophes in the environment comes to mind. take care, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Moral hazard: USSR

, but the connection provided by language and feeling. I don't think people need a whip (terror) to work. I think it is a barbaric practice in relation to understanding how emotions build connection. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Economic woes on the horizon

certain limits to ideas. Nuclear war forecloses world war. One system, not one nation at a time. That is where the conversation seems to me headed. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Economic woes on the horizon

Greetings Economists, On Dec 1, 2007, at 7:43 AM, Jim Devine wrote: of course, he would never join a club that would have him as a member. So he wouldn't care about insults. Doyle, I don't agree with the point about not calling one self a Marxist. We name groups because human brains use

Re: [PEN-L] Marx and ism [was: Economic woes on the horizon]

'Christian style unchanging words' to dynamical media objects build by the hundreds, thousands, millions at once. thanks Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] My Brother's Madness

production is material connection between people. So if we say it is irrational we commit an error about understanding materiality and connection. We fail to understand connection and we fail to understand knowledge production. thanks, Doyle Saylor

[PEN-L] Some comments on Beowolf and network photography

. What are public monuments? They are grand scale information about space and how to use it. But we might see public knowledge as the storehouse of all human space and what to do with the space. As a work process tied to community connection. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] No recession

that international nascent global system. Surely the U.S. can't stop that, because the collapse of neo- liberalism in the heartland leaves the U.S. with no alternative. Global crisis begats global solutions. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] No recession

rot. People 'buying' homes that are then taken away because the huge profits dream is based upon extracting gold from their empty pockets. Of course that is my experiences in life speaking. Perhaps Jim Devine can elucidate? Thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] china shrinking?

and offer my two bits as a helpful response to your observation. thanks, Doyle Saylor

[PEN-L] e8 or Lie Group with implications for a theory of everything

on the way to solving this problem. Doyle, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E8_(mathematics) see the graph which Garret Lisi asserts represents particle families in predictable ways. The theory is not a string theory, and string theory critique Lee Smolin has jumped to extol Lisi's work. thanks, Doyle

[PEN-L] Not from Onion - Garrett Lisi

, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] No recession

and salient. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] this stuff is true!

Greetings Economists, On Nov 13, 2007, at 12:49 PM, Carrol Cox wrote: So it's politically not too bright to throw fascist around in u.s. politics. Doyle; It's clear to me that 'fascist' is long since lost it's roots in militaristic mass movements and become in the U.S. synonymous with foreign

Re: [PEN-L] The Long Fall

, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] The Long Fall

. Nothing about escalation to global war which using nuclear weapons implies would get the U.S. control. It is perfectly obvious. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] ideology [was: Multiple intelligences]

' in the world, that is literally the whole body mentally conscious in the world rather than an abstract called written language handed down to us from generations past. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Systems versus reductionism in biological research

, they see a technique of business arising in various businesses using systemic methods based upon biological research as the results of reductionist methods can't systemize what is known about biology. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Systems versus reductionism in biological research

new 'stuff'. True there are philosophers who call themselves reductionists. I just don't think that has much influence one way of the other. So summing up I agree with your remarks toward the value of 'systems' biology. :-) Doyle Saylor

[PEN-L] Systems versus reductionism in biological research

Greetings Economists, This link http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10018596 has a story on a shift in biological work away from finding the smallest units. To quote ,,,Actually, the beating heart was no simple video. It was, instead, the output of a stupendously

Re: [PEN-L] Multiple intelligences [was: Human species 'may split in two]

these days to see information that becomes 'ideology' as 'interactive' content. Thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Multiple intelligences [was: Human species 'may split in two]

Greetings Economists, On Oct 28, 2007, at 9:10 PM, raghu wrote: It is a bit more complex than that. Sabri, for instance, considered it noteworthy that a black Ethiopian man was one of the best mathematicians he knows. Doyle; Agreed, but then what are the grounds for making distinctions? I

Re: [PEN-L] Multiple intelligences [was: Human species 'may split in two]

to develop ever more deeply as we better understand the brain. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Multiple intelligences [was: Human species 'may split in two]

cognition. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Multiple intelligences [was: Human species 'may split in two]

in disability rights struggles we (again in the U.S.) do not use 'super crips' as the tool to get across rights for all disabled people. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Multiple intelligences [was: Human species 'may split in two]

democracy in Iraq. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Multiple intelligences [was: Human species 'may split in two]

research into a concordance with the tools we use to know the brain chemically, and via fMRI and other non-invasive means of seeing brain activity in a live human. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Multiple intelligences [was: Human species 'may split intwo]

Close say himself. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Multiple intelligences [was: Human species 'may split in two]

to be in the world is being 'advanced' or made more explicit culturally. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Multiple intelligences [was: Human species 'may split intwo]

Greetings Economists, On Oct 27, 2007, at 9:16 AM, Michael Smith wrote: Not to be too contrarian, but the notion of a learning disability seems a little suspect to me too. In fact a lot of these ideas seem like conceptual reflections back onto the student of problems that the educational

Re: [PEN-L] Human species 'may split in two'

your assumption this question is about human judgment limits. On a large scale then how does one determine what is the correct line? I would say that I would rely upon a neural network training system to build the necessary sense of agreement upon. Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] SoCal fires

. deserts. That and energy constraints on extravagant use of land. The main question with these destructive fires is if this is influencing people to stop uncontrolled development down there? Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Human species 'may split in two'

Greetings Economists, On Oct 25, 2007, at 10:20 AM, Doug Henwood wrote: A scientist on my college class listserv heard him speak not that long ago and said he seemed to be going senile. Doyle; Watson was always saying something like this. Besides being senile doesn't make one say such trash.

[PEN-L] Emotion software application

Greetings Economists, Technology Review has an article here: http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/19620/?a=f About an emotion 'reading' software package being test marketed for public use. Reported as a mental health fixing application by the way. Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] Intangible Wealth

Greetings Economists, On Oct 8, 2007, at 7:51 AM, Jim Devine wrote: or is this theory part of the process of normal science, in which theories (or variants of the dominant theory) compete to try to fit the data? Doyle; Competing theory. On a tangent, what this brings up is how agreement on

Re: [PEN-L] Intangible Wealth

Greetings Economists, On Oct 8, 2007, at 8:18 AM, Michael Perelman wrote: I wonder if someone who works in string theory would be seen as some combination of stupid or immoral as would be the case for a radical economists in an elite economics department. Doyle; Well there is a certain degree

Re: [PEN-L] NY TIMES slams Klein

. So I think this will come as our technical means develop further. In the spirit of Jim Devine I retract my pissy attitude to your serious efforts to make yourself heard. Thank you, Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] NY TIMES slams Klein

Greetings Economists, On Sep 29, 2007, at 8:28 AM, Doug Henwood wrote: Time to dust off Stuart Hall's old essay on how Thatcherism became the common sense of the British masses. Doyle; Har har, common sense of the masses is not what I see. The masses don't like things as they are. And the

Re: [PEN-L] NY TIMES slams Klein

Greetings Economists, On Sep 29, 2007, at 8:46 AM, Doug Henwood wrote: I always appreciate a commentary on a text someone hasn't read. Doyle;' What has reading the book have anything to do with my comment? Really Thatcherism is not the common sense of the masses I live in. Do you mean the

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