Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Ben Coman wrote: > > > On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 11:04 PM, Avdi Grimm wrote: > >> >> On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Esteban A. Maringolo < >> emaring...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> Regarding a tab based environment, Dolphin X6 also included that in a >>> concep

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 11:04 PM, Avdi Grimm wrote: > > On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Esteban A. Maringolo < > emaring...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> Regarding a tab based environment, Dolphin X6 also included that in a >> concept called "Idea Space", you can open as many idea spaces as you wan

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Esteban A. Maringolo wrote: > > Regarding a tab based environment, Dolphin X6 also included that in a > concept called "Idea Space", you can open as many idea spaces as you want, > and as you browse classes, inspect objects or look for references, all the > usual

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 8:03 AM, Ben Coman wrote: > Interesting idea. It might be better to use a breadcrumb rather than the > three pulldowns and I think Playground tends to need more room. Yeah I'm actually not so sure about having that part be interactive at all. The whole concept of the sc

[Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

>I dunno if this is useful to anyone, but I was rolling around concepts in >my mind and this is something I came up with: >... Reminds me a lot onto the old Whsiker browser we had back in the days in Squeak Smalltalk: http://www.fit.vutbr.cz/study/courses/OMP/public/software/sqcdrom2/Packages/To

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

2015-05-19 11:41 GMT-03:00 Avdi Grimm : It took thousands of programmers decades of work in many different languages to create this variety. I'd hate to see the smaller Pharo community pour tons of effort into re-inventing these solutions. Which is why I'm suggesting that it may be more helpfu

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

ah, couple of things more (out of ps :P) I do believe Spotter will play a fundamental role in the enhancement of our IDE, but I was also thinking on some kind of “emacs style menus”, in the sense of some guiding menus that you open with a key and you have an idea of which options you look. This

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

> On 19 May 2015, at 16:51, Esteban A. Maringolo wrote: > > 2015-05-19 11:41 GMT-03:00 Avdi Grimm : >> It took thousands of programmers decades of work in many different languages >> to create this variety. I'd hate to see the smaller Pharo community pour >> tons of effort into re-inventing thes

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 10:51 PM, Ben Coman wrote: > > > On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 5:35 PM, Esteban Lorenzano > wrote: > >> my answer on stackoverflow: >> >> well... you hit one of our weaker spots :) >> >> Keybindings are not in his best shape, but: >> >> - Actually, alt+tab is already set to "sw

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

No reason to be offended. I am merely stated my opinion on the subject , obviously personal taste plays a role . I never said your experiences are invalid, I can assure you if that was my intention you will be clearly reading it inside my text. Afterall I was the one that recommended you in IRC to

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 11:14 AM, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: > The shortcut based interface has been tried and has failed. > > The thought that I need to search for a buffer, setup buffer groups , > create tabs , use a weird complex shortcut etc when I just can use my mouse > and in one second cl

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

The shortcut based interface has been tried and has failed. It works well for medium size complexity but to rely the whole functionality of a very complex application to shortcuts is not anything shorter than insane. So shortcuts are without any doubt useful and should be used by all apps but they

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 5:35 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > my answer on stackoverflow: > > well... you hit one of our weaker spots :) > > Keybindings are not in his best shape, but: > > - Actually, alt+tab is already set to "switch window" activity. The > problem is that does not work all the ti

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

2015-05-19 11:41 GMT-03:00 Avdi Grimm : > It took thousands of programmers decades of work in many different languages > to create this variety. I'd hate to see the smaller Pharo community pour > tons of effort into re-inventing these solutions. > > Which is why I'm suggesting that it may be more h

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 3:53 AM, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: > > > About general GUI and UI designs its not any less nightmarish to open > multiple windows in Pharo than it is to open multiple buffers in emacs. The > diffirence between the two is that with emacs you have the nightmare of > lack of a

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

On 19-05-15 01:08, Avdi Grimm wrote: Then the web started to take off, throwing UI design back two decades ;), and UX designers started rethinking the whole paradigm. They started keeping things in the same window, but adding back/forward buttons, and navigation histories, and sidebars, and a

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 11:45 AM, Avdi Grimm wrote: > > On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 11:06 PM, Ben Coman wrote: > >> As a step in this direction, the Window Menu (small arrow in title >> bar) item "Create window group" may provide part of the behaviour you are >> looking for. > > > Interesting! How d

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

jtuchel wrote > once you reached an artefact to read or edit, there is no need for the > navigation to cover a lot of space on screen. Multiplied by the number of > open browsers It's Morphic - pull up the halos and drag the source pane out ;) p.s. kidding... but not. Although it's not exactly th

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

As you linked in your blog post there are my video tutorials , one of them are about window groups https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGJZeajjWGU About general GUI and UI designs its not any less nightmarish to open multiple windows in Pharo than it is to open multiple buffers in emacs. The diffiren

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

Le mar. 19 mai 2015 à 5:45, Avdi Grimm a écrit : On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 11:06 PM, Ben Coman wrote: As a step in this direction, the Window Menu (small arrow in title bar) item "Create window group" may provide part of the behaviour you are looking for. Interesting! How does one add mor

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

Oh, thank you for this one ! Maybe we could add a little paragraph about it on UPBE! That's really usefull On 19 May 2015 at 05:06, Ben Coman wrote: > > On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 7:08 AM, Avdi Grimm wrote: >> >> >> On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 4:23 PM, jtuc...@objektfabrik.de >> wrote: >>> >>> I mostl

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

I gotta say, I was *very* happy to see the Spotter in Pharo 4. This approach, the grand unified auto-completing fuzzy find-by-anything box, is one of the greatest programming UX advances in recent memory. There's a reason there's now a version of it in every editor or IDE I know of. That's not to

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

We're in agreement here. It is nog about the panes per se. It's about the fact that once you reached an artefact to read or edit, there is no need for the navigation to cover a lot of space on screen. Multiplied by the number of open browsers. Until you commence your journey through your code.

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 11:41 PM, jtuc...@objektfabrik.de < jtuc...@objektfabrik.de> wrote: > The fact that each browser comes with its own navigation area that takes > up about 50 percent of the real estate of the browser, however, is just > plain wrong. I was just thinking about this the other

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 11:06 PM, Ben Coman wrote: > As a step in this direction, the Window Menu (small arrow in title > bar) item "Create window group" may provide part of the behaviour you are > looking for. Interesting! How does one add more than one window to the group? Is there more info

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

Avdi, I wrote a series of articles on th etopic back in 2009: you can find the first article here: https://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com/2009/07/02/whats-in-a-smalltalk-browser-anyway-part-1/ Back then, I tried to share my thoughts on what I think A Smalltalk IDE should look like these days (w

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 7:08 AM, Avdi Grimm wrote: > > On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 4:23 PM, jtuc...@objektfabrik.de < > jtuc...@objektfabrik.de> wrote: > >> I mostly work in other Smalltalk environments than Pharo, like VA >> Smalltalk. It has native windows and so the ability to switch between >> wi

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 4:23 PM, jtuc...@objektfabrik.de < jtuc...@objektfabrik.de> wrote: > I mostly work in other Smalltalk environments than Pharo, like VA > Smalltalk. It has native windows and so the ability to switch between > windows using alt-tab is there. I must admit that there is a cert

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

See, this is why I love Smalltalk Tell me a different environment where you can actually have such discussion. To make this a little clearer. Pharo and Squeak are solely open source. So one might say, well this can be done/extended/changed in Eclipse, too. How about VW and VAST? Well,

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

Avdi, I mostly work in other Smalltalk environments than Pharo, like VA Smalltalk. It has native windows and so the ability to switch between windows using alt-tab is there. I must admit that there is a certain threshold in the number of open windows when this is not really helpful any more.

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

Hi Avdi, Welcome. As the others mentioned, this part of Pharo is not at all ideal. Please bare with us. Cheers, Doru On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 12:52 AM, Avdi Grimm wrote: > Hey folks! I've dabbled with smalltalk here and there over the years, but > recently I've settled in to learn Pharo in e

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

Hey folks! I've dabbled with smalltalk here and there over the years, but recently I've settled in to learn Pharo in earnest. A few of you might have seen the videos I've been putting up; they seem to be making the rounds on Twitter. I just want to say I've felt really welcomed by all the peo

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

Le 16/5/15 01:22, Avdi Grimm a écrit : On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 7:12 PM Carlo > wrote: Pressing Alt-Tab brings up a debugger. Debugging the method shows: Thanks! Any idea where the keyboard shortcut is assigned? On the only systems I have handy to test this

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

Le 16/5/15 01:05, Carlo a écrit : Hi Avdi Enjoyed listening to your ruby rogues podcasts and tapas and now finally Smalltalk;) Regarding your pain points on keyboard vs mouse; I've seen this come up before. There has been lot's of improvement, but still a way to go. I tested cycling between

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

Avdi Grimm wrote > Messing around, I've gotten the impression that Morphic doesn't really > have > the concept of a window manager. Hee hee. Like most things in Smalltalk, there is much more here than meets the eye! While pharo's main window looks like a desktop with windows, it is actually a worl

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

Hi Avdi, you may be interested in http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~LaurentLaffont/TilingWindowManager that offers more keyboard control (Emacs inspired) on window management. Regards, Laurent Laffont Le sam. 16 mai 2015 à 0:52, Avdi Grimm a écrit : Hey folks! I've dabbled with smalltalk here an

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

my answer on stackoverflow: well... you hit one of our weaker spots :) Keybindings are not in his best shape, but: - Actually, alt+tab is already set to "switch window" activity. The problem is that does not work all the time (for example, it does not work on Playground). - This is because th

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

does not work for me in macos. Ctrl+left/right is reserved by MACOS for switching workspaces but even other key combinations i tried do not work at all. Alt+Tab is also reserved in macos. On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 9:14 AM Carlo wrote: > Hi > > See my earlier email was bounced. > ... > > Ok, hacked

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

Hi I see my earlier email was bounced again... Ok, hacked and debugged my pharo 4 image and I've got ctrl- left or right working on my mac. Two changes needed TaskListMorph>>keyStroke: event needs to change as per below to add the ctrl left or right. TaskListMorph>>keyStroke: event

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

Hi See my earlier email was bounced. ... Ok, hacked and debugged my pharo 4 image and I've got ctrl- left or right working on my mac. Two changes needed TaskListMorph>>keyStroke: event needs to change as per below to add the ctrl left or right. TaskListMorph>>keyStroke: event "Pro

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 8:21 PM, Carlo wrote: > Remembered now that there is a Keymap Browser under World/System/Keymap > Browser > You could try looking at that or wait until someone that knows responds... > Yeah, there's no listing for Alt-Tab there, which was one of the things that flummoxed

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

Was taking a look in my image and followed references to Character alt or ctrl and found the hooks, but changing them wasn't working. Remembered now that there is a Keymap Browser under World/System/Keymap Browser You could try looking at that or wait until someone that knows responds... Cheers

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

I'd be totally cool with Alt-Left/Right. I just want *something* so I don't have to lift my hand just to switch from e.g. Browser to Playground and back. On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 7:23 PM Nicolai Hess wrote: > 2015-05-16 1:11 GMT+02:00 Carlo : > >> On my >> >> Pharo4.0 >> Latest update: #40609 >>

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

2015-05-16 1:11 GMT+02:00 Carlo : > On my > > Pharo4.0 > Latest update: #40609 > > Pressing Alt-Tab brings up a debugger. Debugging the method shows: > But this does not work for Pharo on Windows . On windows alt+tab always switches between active applications. There was some code on older versio

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 7:12 PM Carlo wrote: > > Pressing Alt-Tab brings up a debugger. Debugging the method shows: > > Thanks! Any idea where the keyboard shortcut is assigned? On the only systems I have handy to test this, the OS catches Alt-Tab before it ever gets to Pharo.

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

As far as I know you are correct in assumption of morphic windows; especially considering experiences playing with Self where it originated from. TWM is a way of managing the multiple open windows. Morphic objects are cool though especially in Squeak or Lively Kernel (Pharo less so) e.g. rotate

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

On my Pharo4.0 Latest update: #40609 Pressing Alt-Tab brings up a debugger. Debugging the method shows: newPreviewMorph "Answer a new preview holder." self halt. ^ Morph new color: Color transparent; extent: self defaultPreviewExtent;

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 7:06 PM Carlo wrote: > Removing the 'self halt' still works though. > Can you give me a little more detail about where to find this? Thanks!

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

Hi Avdi Enjoyed listening to your ruby rogues podcasts and tapas and now finally Smalltalk;) Regarding your pain points on keyboard vs mouse; I've seen this come up before. There has been lot's of improvement, but still a way to go. I tested cycling between windows on Pharo 3 on mac and Alt-tab

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

Messing around, I've gotten the impression that Morphic doesn't really have the concept of a window manager. I've even played with the "Tiling Window Manager", but it isn't really a *manager* in the usual sense, it's more of a collection of shortcuts for manually resizing windows. Without having d

Re: [Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

2015-05-16 0:52 GMT+02:00 Avdi Grimm : > Hey folks! I've dabbled with smalltalk here and there over the years, but > recently I've settled in to learn Pharo in earnest. A few of you might have > seen the videos I've been putting up; they seem to be making the rounds on > Twitter. I just want to sa

[Pharo-users] Alt-tab between windows

Hey folks! I've dabbled with smalltalk here and there over the years, but recently I've settled in to learn Pharo in earnest. A few of you might have seen the videos I've been putting up; they seem to be making the rounds on Twitter. I just want to say I've felt really welcomed by all the people wh