I feel that it is not something so uncommon. As Volker said, many other
communities have some thing like this ...
... pirates had it, too.
'the code is more what you'd call guidelines than actual rules' -
Captain Barbossa
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Hi!
Am Freitag, 28. November 2014 04:26:44 UTC+1 schrieb Andrew:
I think we can discuss code and ideas without being rude. If I receive a
rude comment, I have neither the energy nor the time to find the ideas in
it, and I shouldn't have to do it (and neither should you).
+1
If a
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 12:40:42AM -0800, Travis Scrimshaw wrote:
... pirates had it, too.
'the code is more what you'd call guidelines than actual rules' -
Captain Barbossa
ROTFL :-)
Welcome aboard the Black Sage!
Nicolas
--
Nicolas M. Thiéry
Hi Simon and all,
If a substantial part of our community would share that attitude, we'd be in
serious trouble, I am afraid.
For creating a conflict, it is in some cases sufficient to have a single
person who had have a bad day or didn't sleep enough, causing a temporary
misjudgement.
Hi,
On 2014-11-27, Nathann Cohen nathann.co...@gmail.com wrote:
Also, what is felt as loud by one is not loud for
another, so you cannot just hit everybody whenever that happens.
Different cultures.. We certainly saw that in the recent posts.
+1
In another post, someone referred to a code of
On Thursday, 27 November 2014 18:45:44 UTC+11, Simon King wrote:
Hi Andrew,
On 2014-11-27, Andrew andrew...@gmail.com javascript: wrote:
Speaking only for myself, it is exactly this sort of post that I would
like
to avoid. Why can't the person who gets loud taker a breather, calm
Hi Andrew,
On 2014-11-27, Andrew andrew.mat...@gmail.com wrote:
Because s/he is, for whatever reason, not able to. S/he is doing a
mistake. But this can not be an excuse for people to commit the same
mistake, even though they would be able to avoid it.
Hi Simon, You seem to be saying
On Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:53:39 PM UTC, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
To the contary, I have seen way too much of this shit in my youth, FYI.
Laws of the pioneers of the Soviet Union,
Moral codex of a young builder of Communism,
Funny that you mention it, but I always noticed many
On 2014-11-27, Volker Braun vbraun.n...@gmail.com wrote:
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On Wednesday,
On Thursday, November 27, 2014 12:25:52 PM UTC, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
In any case, that is just another example of cultural baggage. Which is
neither good nor bad, its just how things are.
Rather, it's another example of psychological trauma. It has little to do
with culture (well, a lot
Hi Volker,
On 2014-11-27, Volker Braun vbraun.n...@gmail.com wrote:
Definition from wikipedia/IFAC: Principles, values, standards, or rules of
behavior that guide the decisions, procedures and systems of an
organization in a way that (a) contributes to the welfare of its key
stakeholders,
On Wednesday, November 26, 2014 5:28:28 PM UTC, Simon King wrote:
What you seem to not understand, Volker, is that Sage has grown far
beyond a US project. So, a code of conduct is an American thing is not a
good argument for having a code of conduct.
But we do communicate in English, so
Hi Volker,
On 2014-11-27, Volker Braun vbraun.n...@gmail.com wrote:
Sure, principles can be good or bad. We all have (written or unwritten)
principles, values, standards, and rules. Whats your point?
I guess that's *not* the point.
I didn't have time to read the page on the communist code,
Hi Dima,
On 2014-11-27, Dima Pasechnik dimp...@gmail.com wrote:
The following fits quite well here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_Code_of_the_Builder_of_Communism
Thank you for the link. It indeed has a considerable overlap with other
codes of conduct.
Cheers,
Simon
--
You received
Hi Volker,
On 2014-11-27, Volker Braun vbraun.n...@gmail.com wrote:
But we do communicate in English, so we can't really avoid using anglosaxon
organizational concepts.
I refuse the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. Moreover, we do not communicate in
English as native speakers. So, I absolutely see no
On Thursday, November 27, 2014 1:50:06 PM UTC, Simon King wrote:
I refuse the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis.
Please define which version you are talking about.
Nobody takes linguistic determinism serious nowadays. But linguistic and
cultural relativism are a thing whether you like it or not.
--
But we do communicate in English, so we can't really avoid using anglosaxon
organizational concepts.
I am in India right now. Here, indians often speak english with each
other as it is often their only common language.
Of course, they drive on the left. But I expect that you would find
quite
On 2014-11-27, Volker Braun vbraun.n...@gmail.com wrote:
Nobody takes linguistic determinism serious nowadays. But linguistic and
cultural relativism are a thing whether you like it or not.
AFAIK the relativism only (or at least: mainly) holds for native speakers. So,
you have not answered to
On Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:10:59 PM UTC, Simon King wrote:
AFAIK the relativism only (or at least: mainly) holds for native speakers.
So,
you have not answered to my argument that using a Lingua Franca is
absolutely no reason to adopt organisational principles that seem
fashionable
Hi Volker,
Am Donnerstag, 27. November 2014 15:28:38 UTC+1 schrieb Volker Braun:
On Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:10:59 PM UTC, Simon King wrote:
AFAIK the relativism only (or at least: mainly) holds for native
speakers. So,
you have not answered to my argument that using a Lingua Franca
http://wiki.sagemath.org/CodeOfConduct
It is funny: someone called it the Code of Contact on this link (I
changed it since it referred to the original)! Since so many people are
discussing the name and the oppressive meaning it has for them, we could
indeed do a play on words!
Also,
Also, Simon, in your way of doing things, in my experience if one does
not respond to an inappropriate message, then others will and discussions
go in all sorts of directions. So if a discussion was kind of shut down by
a rude post, how should one proceed? I would like to try that experiment!
2014-11-27 18:08 GMT+01:00 Nathann Cohen nathann.co...@gmail.com:
Also, Simon, in your way of doing things, in my experience if one does
not respond to an inappropriate message, then others will and discussions
go in all sorts of directions. So if a discussion was kind of shut down by
a
Yooo !
I think we can discuss code and ideas without being rude. If I receive a
rude comment, I have neither the energy nor the time to find the ideas in
it, and I shouldn't have to do it (and neither should you).
Well, rudeness happen because of misunderstandings. Of course we can
discuss
Le jeudi 27 novembre 2014 14:50:06 UTC+1, Simon King a écrit :
Hi Volker,
On 2014-11-27, Volker Braun vbrau...@gmail.com javascript: wrote:
But we do communicate in English, so we can't really avoid using
anglosaxon
organizational concepts.
I refuse the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis.
On Thursday, November 27, 2014 7:20:42 PM UTC, Emmanuel Charpentier wrote:
Alternative : make the majestuous Latin of Leonard Euler the lingua franca
of sage- lists/groups. That would give us the added benefit of having
grammatically well-built posts much more frequently...
Quick, lets
Lectoribus salutem!
Emmanuel Charpentier scripsit:
Alternative : make the majestuous Latin of Leonard Euler the lingua franca
of sage- lists/groups. That would give us the added benefit of having
grammatically well-built posts much more frequently...
Haec propositio approbationem meam
7 Frimaire an 223 de la Révolution die, scribit Volker Braun :
On Thursday, November 27, 2014 7:20:42 PM UTC, Emmanuel Charpentier wrote:
Alternative : make the majestuous Latin of Leonard Euler the lingua
franca of sage- lists/groups. That would give us the added benefit of
having
die XXVII mensis Novembris anni MMDCCLXVII ab urbe condita Emmanuel
Charpentier scripsit:
7 Frimaire an 223 de la Révolution die, scribit Volker Braun :
On Thursday, November 27, 2014 7:20:42 PM UTC, Emmanuel Charpentier wrote:
Alternative : make the majestuous Latin of Leonard Euler the
2014-11-27 18:41 GMT+01:00 Nathann Cohen nathann.co...@gmail.com:
Yooo !
I think we can discuss code and ideas without being rude. If I receive a
rude comment, I have neither the energy nor the time to find the ideas in
it, and I shouldn't have to do it (and neither should you).
Well,
Hi Viviane,
On 2014-11-27, Viviane Pons vivianep...@gmail.com wrote:
I think we can discuss code and ideas without being rude. If I receive a
rude comment, I have neither the energy nor the time to find the ideas in
it, and I shouldn't have to do it (and neither should you).
Why not? I didn't
I think we can discuss code and ideas without being rude. If I receive a
rude comment, I have neither the energy nor the time to find the ideas in
it, and I shouldn't have to do it (and neither should you).
+1
A.
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Sorry if I didn't respond fast enough, I'm teaching this semester (check
out http://vbraun.cc/qft, also includes some Sage numerical experiments)
Why is it so important? If it makes you feel better to personally insult
somebody then PM me, I can take it. But I'm pretty sure that the authors
Hi,
On 2014-11-26, Tom Boothby tomas.boot...@gmail.com wrote:
Ya know... Nathann. Buddy. Calling out people who may have had
complaints that could trigger a discussion about a code of conduct is
a bully move. Please avoid doing this in the future. If you want to
vent your spleen, you're
Thus I am asking again, and politely despite my finding very disrespectful
to have a legitimate question ignored: who was on the short list to write
what is now our code of conduct, when was it initiated and in which
conditions ? (yes, there are three parts to the question)
Hi Nathan,
Hi Nathan,
I participated in the initial drafting of the code. Our draft closely
follows, and was stolen from, similar codes of conduct from other projects.
Ultimately all that it asks is that people be polite and respectful
towards others. I don't think that this very onerous.
Rather than
Rather than being put forward as a fait accompli (or even a fiat
accompli:) Volker's initial post asked everyone to (discuss and) vote on
whether we should adopt the code. That is, from the onset people were asked
for their opinion. If you reread the thread, when the discussion started
On 2014-11-26 14:22, Andrew wrote:
I'm still a little
baffled as to why the suggestion that we try to being nice to each
other is causing such a commotion.
You're confusing the Code of Conduct with the suggestion that we try
to being nice to each other. The former is what causing commotion.
Hi,
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 12:45:49AM -0800, Volker Braun wrote:
Sorry if I didn't respond fast enough, I'm teaching this semester (check
out http://vbraun.cc/qft, also includes some Sage numerical experiments)
You make a point about votes with short deadlines. Hovewer, the vote seems
still
Hello,
From Volker:
Why is it so important? If it makes you feel better to personally insult
somebody then PM me, I can take it. But I'm pretty sure that the authors
would be less happy to be called big-dicked than me.
I feel hurt by Volker's answer... should I report on sage-abuse?
Nathann
Hi,
On 2014-11-26, Thierry sage-googlesu...@lma.metelu.net wrote:
The problem is precisely here : requiring ethics from the other in an
unethical way hurts.
Exactly. And it seems to me that these consequences became visible in
this discussion already.
Cheers,
Simon
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You received this
From Andrew:
Hi Nathan,
I participated in the initial drafting of the code. Our draft closely
follows, and was stolen from, similar codes of conduct from other
projects.
The main question of Nathann, which is really fundamental is: why was
it redacted by a small group of people and
On Wednesday, November 26, 2014 2:41:32 PM UTC, vdelecroix wrote:
I would have started any official text by Anybody
is welcome to contribute or something like that.
That sounds like a mission statement, not like a code of conduct.
Really, much of the 2-week discussion was just cultural
Am Mittwoch, 26. November 2014 14:47:29 UTC+1 schrieb Viviane Pons:
I would be in favour of this: having guidelines and not an enforced code.
++
...that would require another voting which invalidates the previous one...
Jakob
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2014-11-26 16:29 GMT+01:00 Jakob Kroeker kroe...@uni-math.gwdg.de:
Am Mittwoch, 26. November 2014 14:47:29 UTC+1 schrieb Viviane Pons:
I would be in favour of this: having guidelines and not an enforced code.
++
...that would require another voting which invalidates the previous one...
On Wednesday, November 26, 2014 7:29:52 AM UTC-8, Jakob Kroeker wrote:
Am Mittwoch, 26. November 2014 14:47:29 UTC+1 schrieb Viviane Pons:
I would be in favour of this: having guidelines and not an enforced code.
++
...that would require another voting which invalidates the previous
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 7:55 AM, Viviane Pons vivianep...@gmail.com wrote:
2014-11-26 16:29 GMT+01:00 Jakob Kroeker kroe...@uni-math.gwdg.de:
Am Mittwoch, 26. November 2014 14:47:29 UTC+1 schrieb Viviane Pons:
I would be in favour of this: having guidelines and not an enforced
code.
Hello everybody,
The reason why I felt that Thierry's question was legitimate, and the
reason why I renewed it repeatedly, is that I do not like to think that
anybody here has so much disrespect for our community that they believe
possible to write its laws in secret [1] and have them proposed
Hi Volker,
On 2014-11-26, Volker Braun vbraun.n...@gmail.com wrote:
Really, much of the 2-week discussion was just cultural confusion about
what a code of conduct is. Mostly from the non-Americans who have never
seen such a thing. And I understand your culture shock in that regard. On
the
Hi Nathann,
On 2014-11-26, Nathann Cohen nathann.co...@gmail.com wrote:
Volker, Tom:
Please consider the tone of my first email, and the tone of your answers.
Please consider the code of conduct that was just voted. Can you see why
I may feel that you broke it clearly and cleanly at my
I feel this is going nowhere...
We should start with the assumption we all agree on something: we want the
sage mailing list to be place where no one is bullied and where we can
express our different point of views safely and with respect. I think we
all want that whether we voted yes or no to
Indeed, on a second reading, my post was an overreaction. I apologize
for that. I don't see where I broke it clearly and cleanly at [your]
expense. If you'd like to tell me publicly or privately where I've
misstepped, I'm not going to put up a fight.
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Nathann
On 2014-11-26, Volker Braun vbraun.n...@gmail.com wrote:
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On Wednesday,
Hi,
On Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:28:33 AM UTC-5, Andrew wrote:
...
The motivation for suggesting the code was that quite a few people were
unhappy with repeated negative comments that appeared in a long series of
posts.
...
A number of people have stopped contributing to sage because
On 2014-11-26, Simon King simon.k...@uni-jena.de wrote:
Hi,
On 2014-11-26, Thierry sage-googlesu...@lma.metelu.net wrote:
The problem is precisely here : requiring ethics from the other in an
unethical way hurts.
Exactly. And it seems to me that these consequences became visible in
this
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Viviane Pons vivianep...@gmail.com wrote:
I feel this is going nowhere...
We should start with the assumption we all agree on something: we want the
sage mailing list to be place where no one is bullied and where we can
express our different point of views
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 11:09 PM, Robert Bradshaw
rober...@math.washington.edu wrote:
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Viviane Pons vivianep...@gmail.com wrote:
I feel this is going nowhere...
We should start with the assumption we all agree on something: we want the
sage mailing list to be
Hi Andrew,
On 2014-11-27, Andrew andrew.mat...@gmail.com wrote:
Speaking only for myself, it is exactly this sort of post that I would like
to avoid. Why can't the person who gets loud taker a breather, calm down
and post something more sensible tomorrow?
Because s/he is, for whatever
I created this thread because this question was asked several times, that
I am sure everybody saw it, and that it still did not get any answer.
Thus I am asking again, and politely despite my finding very disrespectful
to have a legitimate question ignored: who was on the short list to
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