Re: [silk] Vir Sanghvi on Kashmir

2008-08-21 Thread Bonobashi
What bothers me is that we seem to have got caught in the trap of tech fixes and short-term solutions; sufficient troops on the ground, and enough night vision equipment, and we'll solve something or the other. Of course we need full-fledged artillery back-up, from 105 mm through 130 mm right

Re: [silk] Vir Sanghvi on Kashmir

2008-08-21 Thread Bonobashi
Isn't this then a lovely opportunity to suggest that the plebiscite take place simultaneously all over the earlier administrative areas of Kashmir? That should set a nose or two out of joint! Of course, we run the risk of learning that they, too, want to stay away. Tough. Regarding the Muslim

Re: [silk] Vir Sanghvi on Kashmir

2008-08-21 Thread Bonobashi
Whatever little I have read about Pakistani doctrine about the bomb, they have four doomsday scenarios, sketched out in broad outline - loss of strategic masses of territory, loss of strategic proportion of the Armed Forces, and so on. They apparently plan to press the button if these four

Re: [silk] Vir Sanghvi on Kashmir

2008-08-21 Thread Bonobashi
Ouch. Pretty close to the bone. There was the time when somebody was designing instruments for aircraft cockpits for the French organisation SA. When SA wanted to sell the 'glass cockpit' to the Indian Air Force, through HAL of course, the somebody concerned was commandeered and ordered to

Re: [silk] Vir Sanghvi on Kashmir

2008-08-21 Thread Divya Sampath
--- On Thu, 8/21/08, Bonobashi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't this then a lovely opportunity to suggest that the plebiscite take place simultaneously all over the earlier administrative areas of Kashmir? That should set a nose or two out of joint! Of course, we run the risk of learning that

Re: [silk] sometimes, linux rocks

2008-08-21 Thread Rishab Ghosh
On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 08:38:07AM +0530, Gautam John wrote: As with most things Linux, pretty cool when it works. Never been able to get Pulse to work... yes, it wasn't quite as simple as i implied :-) try following the instructions here:

Re: [silk] Vir Sanghvi on Kashmir

2008-08-21 Thread Bonobashi
I didn't realise I was so convoluted in what I wrote earlier. Sorry. As a matter of fact, I do think that Pakistan should be challenged to hold the plebiscite at the same time, and under the same conditions, terms and so on, as India. The reason I would exclude China is that I believe that

Re: [silk] Vir Sanghvi on Kashmir

2008-08-21 Thread Thaths
On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 2:06 AM, Divya Sampath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it would be immensely difficult for the new nation, land-locked as it is, and completely snow-bound in winter, to survive without substantial support (read: subsidies) from its larger neighbours. Switzerland? Thaths -- I

Re: [silk] Vir Sanghvi on Kashmir

2008-08-21 Thread Rishab Ghosh
On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 03:56:13AM -0700, Thaths wrote: On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 2:06 AM, Divya Sampath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it would be immensely difficult for the new nation, land-locked as it is, and completely snow-bound in winter, to survive without substantial support (read:

Re: [silk] Vir Sanghvi on Kashmir

2008-08-21 Thread ss
On Thursday 21 Aug 2008 4:13:52 pm Bonobashi wrote: And if they vote for us, Shiv can buy the beer. er my dear fellow Macaulayite. Do you really think Indian politicians will agree to an election/vote/referendum/plebiscite that they are not sure of winning? Or at least trying to win again

Re: [silk] Vir Sanghvi on Kashmir

2008-08-21 Thread Thaths
On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 4:40 AM, ss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is a small minority of sensitive and educated Indians who think that Kashmiri separatists have a case. Has there been another thread on Silk list that I have somehow missed? Because the arguments I have seen coming from the

Re: [silk] Vir Sanghvi on Kashmir

2008-08-21 Thread Bonobashi
I'm afraid I won't find myself alone in believing that 8 out of 10 of those Kashmiris living in the Valley want out. It isn't clear what proportion want to join Pakistan, and what section wants independence, but it is unlikely that they want to stay on as part of India. There is need for a

Re: [silk] Vir Sanghvi on Kashmir

2008-08-21 Thread Bonobashi
Dear Shiv, There you go again, getting things boringly right as always. Actually, after writing out most of a reply to this mail, I sat back and decided against mailing it to the list. It's likely to be too long and too involved to be fair on the membership of the list. The points are as

Re: [silk] Vir Sanghvi on Kashmir

2008-08-21 Thread divyasampath
The Kashmir valley does not have the longstanding and sophisticated trading systems and infrastructure that Switzerland does, which make the Swiss a viable economic entity. Developing them would require decades of investment and subsidies from _somewhere_, as well as active supply of essential

Re: [silk] Vir Sanghvi on Kashmir

2008-08-21 Thread Perry E. Metzger
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Emotional reasons aside, the people of the valley would be better off choosing limited autonomy under either India or Pakistan. Perhaps -- indeed, I think they're better off as part of India -- but isn't that really up to them to decide and not up to everyone else?

Re: [silk] Vir Sanghvi on Kashmir

2008-08-21 Thread ss
On Thursday 21 Aug 2008 6:43:58 pm Bonobashi wrote: I'm afraid I won't find myself alone in believing that 8 out of 10 of those Kashmiris living in the Valley want out. It isn't clear what proportion want to join Pakistan, and what section wants independence, but it is unlikely that they want

Re: [silk] Vir Sanghvi on Kashmir

2008-08-21 Thread divyasampath
I could not agree more. Which is why I favour a plebiscite. Cheers Divya --Original Message-- From: Perry E. Metzger Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: silklist@lists.hserus.net ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net Sent: 21 Aug 2008 15:55 Subject: Re: [silk] Vir Sanghvi on Kashmir [EMAIL

[silk] BBC on Kashmir settlement scenarios

2008-08-21 Thread Perry E. Metzger
By pure coincidence, this seems to have shown up on the BBC web site. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/south_asia/03/kashmir_future/html/default.stm -- Perry E. Metzger[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [silk] BBC on Kashmir settlement scenarios

2008-08-21 Thread Thaths
On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 6:44 PM, Perry E. Metzger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By pure coincidence, this seems to have shown up on the BBC web site. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/south_asia/03/kashmir_future/html/default.stm Thanks for the link. Looking more closely at the map, it appears

Re: [silk] BBC on Kashmir settlement scenarios

2008-08-21 Thread Perry E. Metzger
Thaths [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 6:44 PM, Perry E. Metzger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By pure coincidence, this seems to have shown up on the BBC web site. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/south_asia/03/kashmir_future/html/default.stm Thanks for the link. Looking

Re: [silk] BBC on Kashmir settlement scenarios

2008-08-21 Thread ss
On Thursday 21 Aug 2008 10:14:39 pm Perry E. Metzger wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/south_asia/03/kashmir_future/html/def ault.stm Ah -a Kashmir for dummies? Well it IS the BBC after all and fudges the detail.. Reading this and other such pieces that have appeared in the past, I

Re: [silk] BBC on Kashmir settlement scenarios

2008-08-21 Thread Rishab Ghosh
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 05:49:35AM +0530, ss wrote: Reading this and other such pieces that have appeared in the past, I recall what we as a group of boys used to discuss when one of our group picked up a very pretty girlfriend at a 3 or 4 day intercollegiate sports festival. Every one of

Re: [silk] BBC on Kashmir settlement scenarios

2008-08-21 Thread ss
On Friday 22 Aug 2008 6:19:28 am Rishab Ghosh wrote: what a nice analogy! and i think what some people in this discussion have been suggesting is that the boy might well want to do various things with the girl, and not let her go, and have many arguments for it, but at some point the girl's

Re: [silk] BBC on Kashmir settlement scenarios

2008-08-21 Thread Bonobashi
(terrain permitting) was precisely the key to the military situation. It is extremely unlikely that any sweeping mobile manoeuvres will take place in the broken ground that lies between Islamabad and the borders of undivided Kashmir. Far more likely is the traditional battleground between

Re: [silk] BBC on Kashmir settlement scenarios

2008-08-21 Thread ss
On Friday 22 Aug 2008 6:47:59 am Bonobashi wrote: The open territory in Rajasthan, facing Multan, has never been tested seriously in battle. On one occasion, a Pakistani armoured sweep failed to focus on its objectives, and was caught at dawn by a squadron of Hawker Hunters, which then started