Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 12:17 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > 2010/1/21 Steve Bennett >> >> optimistic. IMHO, though, if there is a concept "cafe" that exists in >> every country, and we can tag that as "amenity=cafe", then that's good >> enough. It doesn't really matter whether a French café is

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

2010/1/21 Steve Bennett > optimistic. IMHO, though, if there is a concept "cafe" that exists in > every country, and we can tag that as "amenity=cafe", then that's good > enough. It doesn't really matter whether a French café is the same as > an Australian one, or whatever. > +1. If you think th

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 1:27 AM, Andre Engels wrote: > On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Ben Laenen wrote: > >> Maybe the English speaking world should start joining the rest of the world >> which have to learn definitions of each tag anyway. So OSM may have awkward >> tags for English speaking pe

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

On 20/01/2010, at 6:44 PM, Peter Childs wrote: > Cafe, Bar, Pub etc. > > The line is weather it sells Beer, or other Alcoholic Beverages, As another data point, here's what I define them as in Australia - not guaranteed to be the same as other .au definitions: Restaurant - Place to go and get a

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 1:45 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > 2010/1/21 Roy Wallace >> >> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Erik Johansson wrote: >> > >> > ... To meet both problems you can only do this: >> > alcohol=yes >> > coffee=no >> > pastries=yes >> > egg & chips=yes >> >> I like this

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 4:55 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > 2010/1/21 Alan Mintz >> >> - cannabis=yes (bringing it back around to the subject of the thread :) ) > > if that's the question I would tag it amenity=coffeeshop and not > amenity=cafe, cannabis=yes. IMHO the difference between a cafe

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes

s better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Martin Koppenhoefer Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 04:55:08 To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools Subject: Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes ___ Tag

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes

Alan Mintz wrote: > FWIW, my understanding of bar/pub/cafe in the US has been: > cafe: Espresso/coffee drinks, soft drinks, baked goods, pre-packed food. > Starbucks, Coffee Bean, former Diedrichs, etc. are good examples. This may be something that varies from region to region of the USA. I

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes

2010/1/21 Alan Mintz > > - cannabis=yes (bringing it back around to the subject of the thread :) ) > if that's the question I would tag it amenity=coffeeshop and not amenity=cafe, cannabis=yes. IMHO the difference between a cafe and a coffeeshop is too big to be the same tag. Or do you want ever

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

2010/1/21 Roy Wallace > On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Erik Johansson wrote: > > > > ... To meet both problems you can only do this: > > alcohol=yes > > coffee=no > > pastries=yes > > egg & chips=yes > > I like this approach. > > yes, it's OK, just it doesn't tell you whether to expect a bar o

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes

At 2010-01-20 17:46, John F. Eldredge wrote: >It seems more reasonable to tag the general cuisine, whether food is >available, whether alcohol is available, whether reservations are required >(usually only at fancier establishments), and whether the establishment >allows children (in the USA, at

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 11:46 AM, John F. Eldredge wrote: > ... It seems more reasonable to tag the general cuisine, whether food is > available, whether alcohol is available, whether reservations are required > (usually only at fancier establishments), and whether the establishment > allows ch

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Matthias Julius wrote: > >> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Erik Johansson wrote: >>> >>> ... To meet both problems you can only do this: >>> alcohol=yes >>> coffee=no >>> pastries=yes >>> egg & chips=yes >> >> I like this approach. > > I don't.  I don't want to

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes

2010/1/21 John F. Eldredge : > Plus, you could potentially end up with hundreds of different tags defined, > if a lot of people decided to add tags for their favorite dishes.  It seems > more reasonable to tag the general cuisine, whether food is available, > whether alcohol is They could alway

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes

ias Julius Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 19:28:45 To: Subject: Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes Roy Wallace writes: > On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Erik Johansson wrote: >> >> ... To meet both problems you can only do this: >> alcohol=yes >> coffee=no >> pastries=yes >

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes

Roy Wallace writes: > On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Erik Johansson wrote: >> >> ... To meet both problems you can only do this: >> alcohol=yes >> coffee=no >> pastries=yes >> egg & chips=yes > > I like this approach. I don't. I don't want to revisit each place each week to see whether the m

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes

Martin Koppenhoefer writes: > 2010/1/20 Peter Childs > >> In my book its easy. >> >> Cafe Usually Unlicensed. >> > > Definitely I would not put licenses and other legal stuff into the > definition. They differ almost certainly in different countries, are of no > importance to the client and

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Erik Johansson wrote: > > ... To meet both problems you can only do this: > alcohol=yes > coffee=no > pastries=yes > egg & chips=yes I like this approach. It makes much more sense than either of the other suggestions, i.e.: 1) inventing complex explicit definitio

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > 2010/1/20 Peter Childs >> >> In my book its easy. >> >> Cafe Usually Unlicensed. > > > Definitely I would not put licenses and other legal stuff into the > definition. They differ almost certainly in different countries, are of no

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

2010/1/20 Peter Childs > In my book its easy. > > Cafe Usually Unlicensed. > Definitely I would not put licenses and other legal stuff into the definition. They differ almost certainly in different countries, are of no importance to the client and hard to research. They might even differ f

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

On Wed, 20 Jan 2010, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > 2010/1/20 Peter Childs > > > In my book its easy. > > > > Cafe - Place to buy and consume light snacks and NON-Alcoholic Drinks > > (Tea, Coffee, Coke etc) on site. Usually Unlicensed. > > in many countries you will find alcohol in cafés as well.

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

On Thu, 21 Jan 2010, David Earl wrote: > I still think the most important criterion is what the owner of the > establishment says it is, not on the subjective judgement of the surveyor. > > David > In Au McDonalds call themselves "Family Restaurants" and I call them "Fast Food". The subjective

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 2:00 PM, David Earl wrote: > I still think the most important criterion is what the owner of the > establishment says it is, not on the subjective judgement of the surveyor. This sounds very good at first sight, but absolutely unworkable at second. Do you really go into "T

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

2010/1/20 David Earl > I still think the most important criterion is what the owner of the > establishment says it is, not on the subjective judgement of the surveyor. > +1, might work well in English-speaking countries (and where it applies, sometimes establishments have just a name "zum golde

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

> Still these places vary from country/culture to culture. IMHO we should > continue the way we are going. E.g. I would recommend to tag an Italian bar > with amenity=bar but expect something different if I navigate to a Bar in > Rome than I would if I went to a Bar in Berlin. Let the mapuser inter

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

I still think the most important criterion is what the owner of the establishment says it is, not on the subjective judgement of the surveyor. David On 20/01/2010 12:52, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > 2010/1/20 Peter Childs mailto:pchi...@bcs.org>> > > > In my book its easy. > > Cafe - Pla

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

2010/1/20 Peter Childs > > In my book its easy. > > Cafe - Place to buy and consume light snacks and NON-Alcoholic Drinks > (Tea, Coffee, Coke etc) on site. Usually Unlicensed. > in many countries you will find alcohol in cafés as well. In a café I would before all expect a professional coffee-

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

At a bar, you stand up, at a cafe you sit down, at a pub you fall over :) Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

> Cafe - Place to buy and consume light snacks and NON-Alcoholic Drinks > (Tea, Coffee, Coke etc) on site. Usually Unlicensed. Good luck finding one in Eastern Europe. Can't survive without selling booze. Alcohol is essential for cafe to survive but otherwise it is clearly cafe. > Pub - Place to

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

2010/1/19 David Earl : > On 19/01/2010 17:42, John F. Eldredge wrote: >> beverages > > interestingly, not a word you would often find used in British English. > Generally "drinks" often means alcoholic beverages, though sometimes any > depending on context, with "soft drinks" and "hot drinks". > >>

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

Randy wrote: > missed tagged That's Texan for "mistagged" ;) -- Randy ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

David Earl wrote: >On 19/01/2010 17:23, Randy wrote: >>As something that has a common "look & feel" around the world, so we've >got a shorthand for a common experience, what would people call >Starbucks premises in their own languages, and what would you translate >that into English as? > >In the

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

On 19/01/2010 17:42, John F. Eldredge wrote: > beverages interestingly, not a word you would often find used in British English. Generally "drinks" often means alcoholic beverages, though sometimes any depending on context, with "soft drinks" and "hot drinks". > pub I'd have thought this is a

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

On 19/01/2010 17:23, Randy wrote: > In the US, I try to avoid using the word "cafe" altogether. There are many > establishments that call themselves cafes that are in fact restaurants. > Many don't serve anything alcoholic. The term tends more to indicate > casualness than anything else, it seems.

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

--Original Message- From: Andre Engels Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 16:06:30 To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools Subject: Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?) On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Emilie Laffray wrote: >> Well, I would say it is part of what

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

Andre Engels wrote: >On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 4:34 PM, Emilie Laffray > wrote: > >>2010/1/19 David Earl >>> >>>In the case of Dutch cafe though, the word has been usurped for a >>>purpose other than its original French meaning (which is pretty much >>>universal I think - French cafes and English c

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

On 19/01/2010 15:55, Emilie Laffray wrote: > But it shows that it is difficult to find a proper > definition for something like this. The meaning can be quite different. Perhaps, but I think the way to solve it is (1) to take what the signs say it is and (2) translate that into English for the ta

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 4:34 PM, Emilie Laffray wrote: > 2010/1/19 David Earl >> >> In the case of Dutch cafe though, the word has been usurped for a >> purpose other than its original French meaning (which is pretty much >> universal I think - French cafes and English cafes are different in >>

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

2010/1/19 David Earl > > Really? While some English cafes might serve meals, if you can call them > that, like "Egg and Chips", the French cafes I've been into would > typically serve coffee and pastries. > > pastries yes but not a given. Food in general no. > But put aside the distinction betw

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

On 19/01/2010 15:34, Emilie Laffray wrote: > > > 2010/1/19 David Earl > > > In the case of Dutch cafe though, the word has been usurped for a > purpose other than its original French meaning (which is pretty much > universal I think - French cafes and

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 4:23 PM, David Earl wrote: > In the case of Dutch cafe though, the word has been usurped for a > purpose other than its original French meaning (which is pretty much > universal I think - French cafes and English cafes are different in > character, sure, but they are all r

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

2010/1/19 David Earl > In the case of Dutch cafe though, the word has been usurped for a > purpose other than its original French meaning (which is pretty much > universal I think - French cafes and English cafes are different in > character, sure, but they are all restaurants with a limited menu

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

2010/1/19 Lennard > Emilie Laffray wrote: > > > Again, it is a case of sticking to the definition used on the wiki, even > > if it doesn't sound logical based on the usage of the word in your > language. > > I believe that was Ben's point, and this time it's the English-speaking > part of the wor

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

On 19/01/2010 15:06, Andre Engels wrote: > - a cafe by day, a pub > in the early evening, a bar in the later evening. Should I tag them > with all three? And if so, when seeing a cafe during the day, do I > need to come back in the evening to listen how loud the music is? I think you should tag it

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Emilie Laffray wrote: >> Well, I would say it is part of what we call a "café". The problem is >> more that Dutch uses the same word for what in OSM are three terms: >> bar, cafe and pub. And moreover, the same place often having the >> function of all three. To m

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

Emilie Laffray wrote: > Again, it is a case of sticking to the definition used on the wiki, even > if it doesn't sound logical based on the usage of the word in your language. I believe that was Ben's point, and this time it's the English-speaking part of the world that should adhere to that ad

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

2010/1/19 Andre Engels > On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Ben Laenen wrote: > > > Maybe the English speaking world should start joining the rest of the > world > > which have to learn definitions of each tag anyway. So OSM may have > awkward > > tags for English speaking persons, but if we reall

[Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Ben Laenen wrote: > Maybe the English speaking world should start joining the rest of the world > which have to learn definitions of each tag anyway. So OSM may have awkward > tags for English speaking persons, but if we really have to try to resolve all > tags th