On 21 Feb 2011, at 07:09, yvecai wrote:
> IMO, 'imports' should be simply considered as datasources, not data.
> We lack tools to properly use this data. Having great tools like for imagery
> or GPS tracks in the various editors, maybe with a copy/paste feature to
> import data semi-manually wo
On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Thomas Davie wrote:
>
> On 21 Feb 2011, at 07:09, yvecai wrote:
>
> > IMO, 'imports' should be simply considered as datasources, not data.
> > We lack tools to properly use this data. Having great tools like for
> imagery or GPS tracks in the various editors, mayb
Hi.
Why we discuss the goodness or badness of imports here with the argument
of a complete map?
Of course that argument is a good one - but if we look towards the
future there will be a time - partly that's already in the present,
where an area is mapped already with high detail by mappers n
Hi!
There is a considerable difference between an import into a mostly empty
area - which is rather easy to achieve and mostly helpful - and an import
into an already basically mapped area, which is hard to integrate and where
existing data may be damaged. I believe that this should not happen,
e
On 2/21/2011 5:44 AM, Peter Wendorff wrote:
And finally we should work on reduction of the fear to make things
wrong, as I think, that fear is growing with growing complexity of
existant data.
I consider myself fairly comfortable with the editing tools, but
recently while attempting to enter d
I find this discussion very distasteful.
I really like OSM's goals: a complete map of the Earth with more-or-less
unlimited detail. But I don't understand why people think that this
500+ GIGABYTE map should be managed using 19th-century methods,
i.e. manual labor.
Waze is a much newer project th
On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 10:03 AM, Peter Budny wrote:
> I find this discussion very distasteful.
Peter,
I'm sorry that you feel that way. Can you tell us what specifically
you find distasteful? Is it the issue of automated edits or is there
something else?
>
> I really like OSM's goals: a comple
>
> Do you think that when MapQuest started using OSM data to generate their
> maps, they performed all the necessary data transformations BY HAND?
Do you think that MapQuest would be using OSM data at all if it was no more
accurate than the data they could automatically import themselves?
Bob
Hi,
On 02/21/2011 04:03 PM, Peter Budny wrote:
Those of you who think all automated or semi-automated data
contributions are harmful to OSM are dooming this project to never be
able to grow to become a leading source of mapping data.
It is a common fallacy to believe that good map data could s
On 2/20/2011 8:48 PM, Hillsman, Edward wrote:
My impression is that in most US cities, the places where a lot of POIs have
been mapped from field work are in the older, gridded, more pedestrian-friendly
parts of the area. This could be because there are more interesting things
there, or that p
Am 21.02.2011 17:10, schrieb Mike N:
The track loads in JOSM, and I would like to write a plugin to allow
selection of frames from the track, as well as highlight the track
location based on the video location. I was going to take the simplest
route however - the result might work only in Window
Frederik Ramm writes:
> Hi,
>
> On 02/21/2011 04:03 PM, Peter Budny wrote:
>> Those of you who think all automated or semi-automated data
>> contributions are harmful to OSM are dooming this project to never be
>> able to grow to become a leading source of mapping data.
>
> It is a common fallacy
Peter,
The point isn't whether or not your tool will create correct route relations
but what the point of doing that would be. I can understand creating route
relations for long distance cycling/hiking paths that people actually want
to navigate and historic routes (Route 66 comes to mind as a non
Kevin Peat wrote:
The point isn't whether or not your tool will create correct route
relations but what the point of doing that would be. I can understand
creating route relations for long distance cycling/hiking paths that
people actually want to navigate and historic routes (Route 66 comes
You don't need a route relation to do that just a ref tag.
Kevin
On 21 February 2011 17:40, Jean-Marc Liotier wrote:
>
> Navigation, for starters : turn-by-turn indications are improved by being
> able to mention "turn left on route 35".
>
> Besides, it is static geographic data which fits Ope
On 02/21/2011 11:26 AM, Kevin Peat wrote:
The point isn't whether or not your tool will create correct route relations
but what the point of doing that would be. I can understand creating route
relations for long distance cycling/hiking paths that people actually want
to navigate and historic rou
Okay, even if we accept that -- and many OSM mappers do not, which is
why there are tens of thousands of route relations in the database --
who is going to add all those ref tags?
You haven't addressed the original problem, which is that there is a lot
of editing to be done, some of which is tedio
2011/2/21 Kevin Peat :
> You don't need a route relation to do that just a ref tag.
+1
you need the relation if there is more than one route using the same
street (because ref=23;42 is ugly). The relation might also be
convenient for mappers to download a longer and in great detail (split
ways)
Serge Wroclawski writes:
> On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 10:03 AM, Peter Budny wrote:
>> I find this discussion very distasteful.
>
> Peter,
>
> I'm sorry that you feel that way. Can you tell us what specifically
> you find distasteful? Is it the issue of automated edits or is there
> something else?
On 2/20/2011 8:48 PM, Hillsman, Edward wrote:
> My impression is that in most US cities, the places where a lot of POIs have
>been mapped from field work are in the older, gridded, more
>pedestrian-friendly
>parts of the area. This could be because there are more interesting things
>there, or
On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 10:18 AM, Mikel Maron wrote:
>
> I'm starting to see opportunities in deprived areas throughout US cities
> from groups that want to map, especially with youth. Would be happy to
> discuss the possibilities more with anyone who's interested in making this
> happen.
>
+1 -
I believe imports can be great, but of course can be dangerous. Better
tools are needed, and maybe someday I'll have the skills and know-how
to help with them.
There's one thing that hasn't explicitly been mentioned. Some say we
don't want to import because it will demotivate people to start
contr
Peter Budny wrote:
OSM right now has very little tools to support editing. Compare this to
text processing [..]
This thread certainly has something to do with advanced version control
for geographic data. That said, a discussion that happened a few months
ago here
(http://www.mail-archive.
On 21/02/2011 18:03, Peter Budny wrote:
Okay, even if we accept that -- and many OSM mappers do not,
They've clearly not heard the posh woman inside my satnav then - she has
no problems pronouncing "name" and "ref" information on roads (she can't
pronounce "Huthwaite", but that's another proble
Peter,
I have nothing against automated edits in general as long as they are
useful, are tested properly and don't overwrite other people's efforts
without agreement. As I mentioned earlier in this thread I think the
difficulty in contacting contributors in an area makes that hard to do.
I am not
Jean-Marc Liotier writes:
> Peter Budny wrote:
>> OSM right now has very little tools to support editing. Compare this to
>> text processing [..]
>
> This thread certainly has something to do with advanced version
> control for geographic data. That said, a discussion that happened a
> few mont
SomeoneElse writes:
> On 21/02/2011 18:03, Peter Budny wrote:
>> Okay, even if we accept that -- and many OSM mappers do not,
> They've clearly not heard the posh woman inside my satnav then - she
> has no problems pronouncing "name" and "ref" information on roads (she
> can't pronounce "Huthwait
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 10:18:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Mikel Maron
To: Mike N , talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping 'risky areas'
Message-ID: <238196.90955...@web161608.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On 2/21/2011 10:18:24 -0800 (PST), Mikel Maron
On 21.02.2011 19:18, Peter Budny wrote:
> Let me try to elaborate as concisely as possible.
>
> OSM right now has very little tools to support editing.
Without imports, data creation is performed by the same community, and
with the same tools, as the editing and maintenance that follow data
creat
Peter Budny wrote:
>
> I really don't mind whether it's route relations or ref tags. The
> problem is that NEITHER is finished. To get to my house, I have to get
> on State Route 1966, then 1267. Neither of these are marked as such on
> the map, and I'm certainly not going to do it by hand wh
Hillsman, Edward wrote:
>
> But I'm starting to regret mentioning crime in my earlier post. The point
> I was trying to make focused on the physical environment, and the fact
> that a lot of suburbia in the US is not conducive to walking. In addition,
> its design and heavy levels of car traffic
Tordanik wrote:
>
> The best way to achieve this, IMO, is to only execute mass edits and
> imports in collaboration with a local community. This makes sure that
> there is a sufficiently developed community of mappers "on the ground",
> allows them to evaluate the data's quality beforehand, and
Nathan Edgars II writes:
> Peter Budny wrote:
>>
>> I really don't mind whether it's route relations or ref tags. The
>> problem is that NEITHER is finished. To get to my house, I have to get
>> on State Route 1966, then 1267. Neither of these are marked as such on
>> the map, and I'm certain
On 21.02.2011 21:43, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
> Tordanik wrote:
>>
>> The best way to achieve this, IMO, is to only execute mass edits and
>> imports in collaboration with a local community. This makes sure that
>> there is a sufficiently developed community of mappers "on the ground",
>> allows the
On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Peter Budny wrote:
> The thing is, whether the work is done by humans or robots, how are you
> going to know if it's right?
By going to it and checking.
> But anyway... how do you know if the data is right? OSM doesn't have
> many tools for assisting humans in
Serge Wroclawski writes:
> On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Peter Budny wrote:
>
>> If automated edits are problematic, it's not because the robot
>> apocalypse is coming. It's because automated edits are hacked together
>> due to a lack of tools and support in OSM for doing anything other than
I prefer this idea:
mapnik etc could render only objects with version 2 or higher. Not only
does that block out imports, but now we're at the point of completing
various areas, it will make people go back and check them.
But they will just go and make tiny changes to increment the
version wi
I think there's been a useful discussion in the other thread for ideas
which might help the project move forward, and so I'm going to lay
them out and hopefully we'll have a more focused discussion.
Idea 1: Better collaboration, especially regarding changes people make.
This is something that sev
I think you have to accept that many "imports" come through JOSM, the
incident that initiated this thread wasn't an import problem as such just an
incorrect selection and hitting the delete key too quickly in JOSM.
Given the turn over of new people collaboration will always be a problem
especially
Peter Budny schrieb:
The thing is, whether the work is done by humans or robots, how are you
going to know if it's right?
Now here's the actual argument why automated imports are often a bad
thing: A lot of data is being added to the database *without being
checked by anyone* for its quality.
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2011-02-21 16:03, Peter Budny skrev:
> it's capable of capturing; OSM's model is much better IMO. BUT, Waze
> has captured traces of a much larger portion of the US than OSM has.
> Waze has both average and real-time speed data, whereas OSM has no
>
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