[Talk-us] Congratulation on State of the Map US
It looked a fantastic event, would have loved to have got over there for it. In terms of the organisers, who is best to contact fro swapping some experiences to help out us in the UK who are organising this year's international SOTM conference? I guess Bonnie at MapBox is pretty much the go to person? The Call for Presentations is now closed for SOTM, as the programme takes shape hope to see some of you make the trip to Birmingham, UK. Keep an eye on what is going on: http://stateofthemap.org Cheers, Stu SOTM 13 Organising Committee ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] New National Parks Mailing List
During discussions in presentations at this years SOTM-US, participants expressed a desire to create a mailing list for people interested in collaborating to improving our maps of National Parks. We will use this list to develop goals and processes to improve mapping of National Parks. Joining the list will be National Parks Service employes to help us in this process. Once the presentations from State of the Map US are posted we'll get links out to two great presentations by Nate Irwin and Mamata Akella about how the National Parks Service is working with OSM to improve both official NPS maps as well as OSM. If you would like to join in other OSM mappers and the National Parks Service, please sign up to the new National Parks mail list at http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us-nps. -- Clifford OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] New National Parks Mailing List
Quick question: will there be opportunities for armchair mappers to help, or are you only looking for on-the-ground knowledge? On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.uswrote: During discussions in presentations at this years SOTM-US, participants expressed a desire to create a mailing list for people interested in collaborating to improving our maps of National Parks. We will use this list to develop goals and processes to improve mapping of National Parks. Joining the list will be National Parks Service employes to help us in this process. Once the presentations from State of the Map US are posted we'll get links out to two great presentations by Nate Irwin and Mamata Akella about how the National Parks Service is working with OSM to improve both official NPS maps as well as OSM. If you would like to join in other OSM mappers and the National Parks Service, please sign up to the new National Parks mail list at http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us-nps. -- Clifford OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] OpenLegend (SOTM Sprint Proposal)
For today's San Francisco SOTM Sprint, I'm writing to propose a design effort to bring together legends. The goal is to inspect each major map and build a legend, then combine those legends into a big cheat sheet. Then, inspect each editor and list the features it has presets for. The design effort would likely create an XML schema to represent the legend/presets for a particular design/editor. One future benefit is a mapper who's mapped a particular feature (say, cell phone towers) can see which map their results will go it. It could reduce pressure to make Mapnik do everything. It is also a good sprinty topic, in that it needs someone familiar with each target codebase. Game on? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] OpenLegend (SOTM Sprint Proposal)
Hi Bryce, I can help you with iD presets -- they live here: https://github.com/systemed/iD/tree/master/data/presets I encourage you to use a JSON format rather than XML. It'll be easier for web-based services to consume. John On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 8:58 AM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: For today's San Francisco SOTM Sprint, I'm writing to propose a design effort to bring together legends. The goal is to inspect each major map and build a legend, then combine those legends into a big cheat sheet. Then, inspect each editor and list the features it has presets for. The design effort would likely create an XML schema to represent the legend/presets for a particular design/editor. One future benefit is a mapper who's mapped a particular feature (say, cell phone towers) can see which map their results will go it. It could reduce pressure to make Mapnik do everything. It is also a good sprinty topic, in that it needs someone familiar with each target codebase. Game on? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Bing Streetside
Hi, Someone asked me recently if we can use Bing's Street Side imagery for deriving data to improve OSM. (I did not even know it existed, it does[1], it looks a little weird but it would definitely be usable for our purposes.) Just for the record: the answer is no, according to the license Bing / MS granted us[2]. Unless there is an update on this I don't know about. [1] http://www.microsoft.com/maps/streetside.aspx [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/d/d8/Bing_license.pdf -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] OpenLegend (SOTM Sprint Proposal)
Here's what I've been using for POI+ https://github.com/davidchiles/osm-poi-editor-iOS/blob/master/Resources/Tags.json I've also been using JSON instead of XML. It was just as easy on iOS to use JSON as PLIST and both are much easier than some other XML format. David On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 10:00 AM, John Firebaugh john.fireba...@gmail.comwrote: Hi Bryce, I can help you with iD presets -- they live here: https://github.com/systemed/iD/tree/master/data/presets I encourage you to use a JSON format rather than XML. It'll be easier for web-based services to consume. John On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 8:58 AM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.comwrote: For today's San Francisco SOTM Sprint, I'm writing to propose a design effort to bring together legends. The goal is to inspect each major map and build a legend, then combine those legends into a big cheat sheet. Then, inspect each editor and list the features it has presets for. The design effort would likely create an XML schema to represent the legend/presets for a particular design/editor. One future benefit is a mapper who's mapped a particular feature (say, cell phone towers) can see which map their results will go it. It could reduce pressure to make Mapnik do everything. It is also a good sprinty topic, in that it needs someone familiar with each target codebase. Game on? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Congratulation on State of the Map US
Hi Stuart, Happy to talk about our experience with SOTM US any time. Alex Barth, Martijn van Exel, and Mike Migurski could all be helpful too as they volunteered a lot of their time around the event. If you're looking for other specific input that we wouldn't be best to provide, I can put you in touch with folks that led other efforts around the organizing. Just hit me up off thread to get the conversation going : ) Cheers, Bonnie On Jun 11, 2013, at 2:30 AM, stuart lester stules...@googlemail.com wrote: It looked a fantastic event, would have loved to have got over there for it. In terms of the organisers, who is best to contact fro swapping some experiences to help out us in the UK who are organising this year's international SOTM conference? I guess Bonnie at MapBox is pretty much the go to person? The Call for Presentations is now closed for SOTM, as the programme takes shape hope to see some of you make the trip to Birmingham, UK. Keep an eye on what is going on: http://stateofthemap.org Cheers, Stu SOTM 13 Organising Committee ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
Hiya, OSM has pretty poor neighborhood coverage in the US. We have around 1100 place=neighbo[u]rhood. Geonames has ten times that at 11,000 (feature class P.PPLX - not sure if all of those are neighborhoods) and Zillow has 7,000. Both these data sets are provided under (different) CC licenses. Could we use either Geonames or Zillow to drive improvement to neighborhood name coverage in OSM? I am not proposing an import, but a local MapRoulette challenge might work where people with local knowledge accept / reject proposed neighborhood points, or something along those lines. Martijn -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
On 6/11/2013 2:58 PM, Martijn van Exel wrote: OSM has pretty poor neighborhood coverage in the US. We have around 1100 place=neighbo[u]rhood. Geonames has ten times that at 11,000 (feature class P.PPLX - not sure if all of those are neighborhoods) and Zillow has 7,000. The TIGER import brought in many subdivisions as Hamlets, so the some information is there but is not necessarily the best form. I'm not clear myself on how to tag the classic US subdivision and apartment complex. I try to change these to areas when possible so that Nominatim-style searches doesn't identify nearby POIs outside the boundary as belonging to the nearest neighborhood. Often, I can't determine the subdivision boundary from either Bing or a survey; I'd need to see an organization map which would be of questionable license. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
On 11/giu/2013, at 21:07, Mike N nice...@att.net wrote: Often, I can't determine the subdivision boundary from either Bing or a survey; I'd need to see an organization map which would be of questionable license. or ask the people that live there, would that be feasible? cheers, Martin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] OpenStreetMap outreach opportunity
Hi all, (Cross-posting to talk-us the *brand-spanking new* diversity-talk list... Yay.) I'm following up on our great discussion at #sotmus about diversity and, in this specific case, outreach/education to broaden the community base. I want to point out this upcoming National Youth Summit on Geospatial Technologies[1]. It looks like a fantastic opportunity to expose young mappers to the awesomeness that is OpenStreetMap...if we can get on the program. (I have no idea if the program is set, nor how tightly scripted it is.) Even if we can't participate, I'd like to draw attention to it as an example of the kinds of events we should look to for outreach and community development. Thoughts on next steps? Please discuss... [1] http://www.nationalyouthsummit.org/ -- SEJ -- twitter: @geomantic -- skype: sejohnson8 There are two types of people in the world. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete data. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
Note that, if not all of the subdivision has been developed as yet, the residents may not be entirely sure where the undeveloped subdivision land ends and other, adjoining, undeveloped land begins, so you might need to check with the company that is developing the subdivision. Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/giu/2013, at 21:07, Mike N nice...@att.net wrote: Often, I can't determine the subdivision boundary from either Bing or a survey; I'd need to see an organization map which would be of questionable license. or ask the people that live there, would that be feasible? cheers, Martin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
That's basically what I am proposing. On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/giu/2013, at 21:07, Mike N nice...@att.net wrote: Often, I can't determine the subdivision boundary from either Bing or a survey; I'd need to see an organization map which would be of questionable license. or ask the people that live there, would that be feasible? cheers, Martin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
I think this is a problem more people have. In the GNIS import for populated places, a lot of apartment buildings and trailer parks are grouped together with 'real' populated places while they are really separate things for all intents and purposes. But that may also have a lot to do with lack of resolution of GNIS. On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Mike N nice...@att.net wrote: On 6/11/2013 2:58 PM, Martijn van Exel wrote: OSM has pretty poor neighborhood coverage in the US. We have around 1100 place=neighbo[u]rhood. Geonames has ten times that at 11,000 (feature class P.PPLX - not sure if all of those are neighborhoods) and Zillow has 7,000. The TIGER import brought in many subdivisions as Hamlets, so the some information is there but is not necessarily the best form. I'm not clear myself on how to tag the classic US subdivision and apartment complex. I try to change these to areas when possible so that Nominatim-style searches doesn't identify nearby POIs outside the boundary as belonging to the nearest neighborhood. Often, I can't determine the subdivision boundary from either Bing or a survey; I'd need to see an organization map which would be of questionable license. __**_ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-ushttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
I think this is a good idea but have some suggested considerations. If I remember correctly, MapRoulette 2 has the ability to localize the challenge, correct? If/when is that available I think that would be a great challenge, just a simple “verify this is the proper neighborhood name and appropriate value”. However, I have not seen a real good reference for correlating the place values in the US (although I haven’t looked); does someone know of one? or maybe a good first step is to try and create one. Also I don’t think this will get us anywhere near complete as we get into rural areas we don’t know and that don’t have local mappers (and those using MR), so we may need to further do some sort of ‘challenge’ (that may not work with MR) to ‘import’/cross-reference another data set. =Russ russdeffner on OSM From: Martijn van Exel [mailto:m...@rtijn.org] Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 12:58 PM To: OSM US Talk Subject: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow Hiya, OSM has pretty poor neighborhood coverage in the US. We have around 1100 place=neighbo[u]rhood. Geonames has ten times that at 11,000 (feature class P.PPLX - not sure if all of those are neighborhoods) and Zillow has 7,000. Both these data sets are provided under (different) CC licenses. Could we use either Geonames or Zillow to drive improvement to neighborhood name coverage in OSM? I am not proposing an import, but a local MapRoulette challenge might work where people with local knowledge accept / reject proposed neighborhood points, or something along those lines. Martijn -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
My house is technically in a subdivision named Murray Heights, but I have only seen that name on the deed, and on maps. In the 21 years I have lived here, I have never heard anyone use that name. The subdivision was built in the late 1950s, and, unlike some other local subdivisions, there aren't any permanent signs in place as you enter the subdivision. According to the post office, my house is in the Woodbine postal district, named after a small town that was subsequently swallowed up by the expansion of Nashville. However, when people refer to the Woodbine area, they usually mean the approximate area of the old town, several miles from my house. I usually refer to my neighborhood as Antioch, the name of another small town that has expanded outward, even though the official border of Antioch, according to the post office, is about 300 feet from my house. Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: On 11/giu/2013, at 21:07, Mike N nice...@att.net wrote: Often, I can't determine the subdivision boundary from either Bing or a survey; I'd need to see an organization map which would be of questionable license. or ask the people that live there, would that be feasible? Sometimes subdivisions map cleanly to neighborhoods. But not always. In the USA aspirational neighborhoods are common, if not the rule. As a neighborhood gets trendy more and more people at the edges (and more and more Realtors) latch on to that name. The Zillow data is a very rigid idea of what a neighborhood is. Walk three blocks away from Noe Valley and ask what neighborhood you are in, and you're likely to get four answers. Capturing that diversity would produce a far more useful neighborhood guide than just importing Zillow. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
Russ -- Yes, MR2 will have the ability to work on a specific location (likely to be specified as a point + radius, or bbox). What do you mean by correlating place values, correlating with what? Rural areas are not as important for neighborhood coverage I would say. On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Russell Deffner russ...@russelldeffnerconsulting.com wrote: I think this is a good idea but have some suggested considerations. ** ** If I remember correctly, MapRoulette 2 has the ability to localize the challenge, correct? If/when is that available I think that would be a great challenge, just a simple “verify this is the proper neighborhood name and appropriate value”. However, I have not seen a real good reference for correlating the place values in the US (although I haven’t looked); does someone know of one? or maybe a good first step is to try and create one. Also I don’t think this will get us anywhere near complete as we get into rural areas we don’t know and that don’t have local mappers (and those using MR), so we may need to further do some sort of ‘challenge’ (that may not work with MR) to ‘import’/cross-reference another data set. ** ** =Russ russdeffner on OSM ** ** *From:* Martijn van Exel [mailto:m...@rtijn.org] *Sent:* Tuesday, June 11, 2013 12:58 PM *To:* OSM US Talk *Subject:* [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow ** ** Hiya, ** ** OSM has pretty poor neighborhood coverage in the US. We have around 1100 place=neighbo[u]rhood. Geonames has ten times that at 11,000 (feature class P.PPLX - not sure if all of those are neighborhoods) and Zillow has 7,000. Both these data sets are provided under (different) CC licenses. Could we use either Geonames or Zillow to drive improvement to neighborhood name coverage in OSM? I am not proposing an import, but a local MapRoulette challenge might work where people with local knowledge accept / reject proposed neighborhood points, or something along those lines. ** ** Martijn -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ** ** -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
Yea, I think this is where sources like Geonames and Zillow, which are built (to an extent) based on actual perceived names rather than official ones, could be so valuable - and why GNIS populated places are detrimental to OSM map quality, at least in many urban areas. On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 1:55 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.comwrote: My house is technically in a subdivision named Murray Heights, but I have only seen that name on the deed, and on maps. In the 21 years I have lived here, I have never heard anyone use that name. The subdivision was built in the late 1950s, and, unlike some other local subdivisions, there aren't any permanent signs in place as you enter the subdivision. According to the post office, my house is in the Woodbine postal district, named after a small town that was subsequently swallowed up by the expansion of Nashville. However, when people refer to the Woodbine area, they usually mean the approximate area of the old town, several miles from my house. I usually refer to my neighborhood as Antioch, the name of another small town that has expanded outward, even though the official border of Antioch, according to the post office, is about 300 feet from my house. Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: On 11/giu/2013, at 21:07, Mike N nice...@att.net wrote: Often, I can't determine the subdivision boundary from either Bing or a survey; I'd need to see an organization map which would be of questionable license. or ask the people that live there, would that be feasible? Sometimes subdivisions map cleanly to neighborhoods. But not always. In the USA aspirational neighborhoods are common, if not the rule. As a neighborhood gets trendy more and more people at the edges (and more and more Realtors) latch on to that name. The Zillow data is a very rigid idea of what a neighborhood is. Walk three blocks away from Noe Valley and ask what neighborhood you are in, and you're likely to get four answers. Capturing that diversity would produce a far more useful neighborhood guide than just importing Zillow. -- Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
I mean deciding what place value to use, i.e. is this a hamlet, neighborhood, etc. So I guess more of a guideline for tagging places in the US is what I’d like to have for a MR challenge. As far as rural, in my rural CO area very few of what I’d call ‘neighborhoods’ exist in OSM; I’ve added the ones I know right around me and that was about 1/2 dozen. I would guess that these could make up for a relatively significant number across the entire US. From: mve...@gmail.com [mailto:mve...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Martijn van Exel Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 1:56 PM To: Russell Deffner Cc: OSM US Talk Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow Russ -- Yes, MR2 will have the ability to work on a specific location (likely to be specified as a point + radius, or bbox). What do you mean by correlating place values, correlating with what? Rural areas are not as important for neighborhood coverage I would say. On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Russell Deffner russ...@russelldeffnerconsulting.commailto:russ...@russelldeffnerconsulting.com wrote: I think this is a good idea but have some suggested considerations. If I remember correctly, MapRoulette 2 has the ability to localize the challenge, correct? If/when is that available I think that would be a great challenge, just a simple “verify this is the proper neighborhood name and appropriate value”. However, I have not seen a real good reference for correlating the place values in the US (although I haven’t looked); does someone know of one? or maybe a good first step is to try and create one. Also I don’t think this will get us anywhere near complete as we get into rural areas we don’t know and that don’t have local mappers (and those using MR), so we may need to further do some sort of ‘challenge’ (that may not work with MR) to ‘import’/cross-reference another data set. =Russ russdeffner on OSM From: Martijn van Exel [mailto:m...@rtijn.orgmailto:m...@rtijn.org] Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 12:58 PM To: OSM US Talk Subject: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow Hiya, OSM has pretty poor neighborhood coverage in the US. We have around 1100 place=neighbo[u]rhood. Geonames has ten times that at 11,000 (feature class P.PPLX - not sure if all of those are neighborhoods) and Zillow has 7,000. Both these data sets are provided under (different) CC licenses. Could we use either Geonames or Zillow to drive improvement to neighborhood name coverage in OSM? I am not proposing an import, but a local MapRoulette challenge might work where people with local knowledge accept / reject proposed neighborhood points, or something along those lines. Martijn -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
As for Bryce's observation - Zillow does not have overlapping polygons as far as I know, so it is by its nature sort of rigid - but then again this is probably what they require for their use case, as there would be no way to disambiguate. Interesting in this context is the much-quoted example of flickr alpha shapes [1] where flickr tags are used to create (overlapping) polygons of vernacular place names. On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: Yea, I think this is where sources like Geonames and Zillow, which are built (to an extent) based on actual perceived names rather than official ones, could be so valuable - and why GNIS populated places are detrimental to OSM map quality, at least in many urban areas. On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 1:55 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.comwrote: My house is technically in a subdivision named Murray Heights, but I have only seen that name on the deed, and on maps. In the 21 years I have lived here, I have never heard anyone use that name. The subdivision was built in the late 1950s, and, unlike some other local subdivisions, there aren't any permanent signs in place as you enter the subdivision. According to the post office, my house is in the Woodbine postal district, named after a small town that was subsequently swallowed up by the expansion of Nashville. However, when people refer to the Woodbine area, they usually mean the approximate area of the old town, several miles from my house. I usually refer to my neighborhood as Antioch, the name of another small town that has expanded outward, even though the official border of Antioch, according to the post office, is about 300 feet from my house. Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: On 11/giu/2013, at 21:07, Mike N nice...@att.net wrote: Often, I can't determine the subdivision boundary from either Bing or a survey; I'd need to see an organization map which would be of questionable license. or ask the people that live there, would that be feasible? Sometimes subdivisions map cleanly to neighborhoods. But not always. In the USA aspirational neighborhoods are common, if not the rule. As a neighborhood gets trendy more and more people at the edges (and more and more Realtors) latch on to that name. The Zillow data is a very rigid idea of what a neighborhood is. Walk three blocks away from Noe Valley and ask what neighborhood you are in, and you're likely to get four answers. Capturing that diversity would produce a far more useful neighborhood guide than just importing Zillow. -- Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: As for Bryce's observation - Zillow does not have overlapping polygons as far as I know, so it is by its nature sort of rigid - but then again this is probably what they require for their use case, as there would be no way to disambiguate. That said, neighborhoods are known to be fuzzy concepts, and getting a person close to the right one has value. The zillow data for example could be brought in as point features. While it seems a shame, it would remove that whole issue of boundaries. Often (not always, but often) the neighborhood does in fact have a well defined central core. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
I think point features are definitely the way to go here - areas are nice but have the drawback of being to rigid a delineation, as well as being more difficult to map and maintain. On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 2:11 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: As for Bryce's observation - Zillow does not have overlapping polygons as far as I know, so it is by its nature sort of rigid - but then again this is probably what they require for their use case, as there would be no way to disambiguate. That said, neighborhoods are known to be fuzzy concepts, and getting a person close to the right one has value. The zillow data for example could be brought in as point features. While it seems a shame, it would remove that whole issue of boundaries. Often (not always, but often) the neighborhood does in fact have a well defined central core. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
I'm interested in this, I recently posted a question on how to map subdivisions, I'm using landuse=residential,name=Name of Subdivision to map mine. I think it's important that for US purposes, we can distinguish between HOA managed subdivisions, which are defined as a legal entity, and all other types of indicators (hamlet, neighborhood etc). My city, (Centennial, Colorado) which is quite new, has no areas that are 'neighbourhoods', all residential areas are either subdivisions or are are defined as just a city address (for those that have no HOA. There is no naming 'creep' as someone raised in this thread. Mark From: Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org To: Russell Deffner russ...@russelldeffnerconsulting.com Cc: OSM US Talk talk-us@openstreetmap.org Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow Russ -- Yes, MR2 will have the ability to work on a specific location (likely to be specified as a point + radius, or bbox). What do you mean by correlating place values, correlating with what? Rural areas are not as important for neighborhood coverage I would say. On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Russell Deffner russ...@russelldeffnerconsulting.com wrote: I think this is a good idea but have some suggested considerations. If I remember correctly, MapRoulette 2 has the ability to localize the challenge, correct? If/when is that available I think that would be a great challenge, just a simple “verify this is the proper neighborhood name and appropriate value”. However, I have not seen a real good reference for correlating the place values in the US (although I haven’t looked); does someone know of one? or maybe a good first step is to try and create one. Also I don’t think this will get us anywhere near complete as we get into rural areas we don’t know and that don’t have local mappers (and those using MR), so we may need to further do some sort of ‘challenge’ (that may not work with MR) to ‘import’/cross-reference another data set. =Russ russdeffner on OSM From:Martijn van Exel [mailto:m...@rtijn.org] Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 12:58 PM To: OSM US Talk Subject: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow Hiya, OSM has pretty poor neighborhood coverage in the US. We have around 1100 place=neighbo[u]rhood. Geonames has ten times that at 11,000 (feature class P.PPLX - not sure if all of those are neighborhoods) and Zillow has 7,000. Both these data sets are provided under (different) CC licenses. Could we use either Geonames or Zillow to drive improvement to neighborhood name coverage in OSM? I am not proposing an import, but a local MapRoulette challenge might work where people with local knowledge accept / reject proposed neighborhood points, or something along those lines. Martijn -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
I'm also in favor of using points for neighborhoods. Exact boundaries are extremely subjective in some places. In places where they actually are well-defined perhaps they are also different conceptually? For example, in NYC we have fuzzy neighborhoods, of course, but we also have community board boundaries which sometimes follow similar boundaries to neighborhoods and can stand in for neighborhoods. On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 1:11 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: As for Bryce's observation - Zillow does not have overlapping polygons as far as I know, so it is by its nature sort of rigid - but then again this is probably what they require for their use case, as there would be no way to disambiguate. That said, neighborhoods are known to be fuzzy concepts, and getting a person close to the right one has value. The zillow data for example could be brought in as point features. While it seems a shame, it would remove that whole issue of boundaries. Often (not always, but often) the neighborhood does in fact have a well defined central core. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
OSM has pretty poor neighborhood coverage in the US. We have around 1100 place=neighbo[u]rhood. Geonames has ten times that at 11,000 (feature class P.PPLX - not sure if all of those are neighborhoods) and Zillow has 7,000. Both these data sets are provided under (different) CC licenses. Could we use either Geonames or Zillow to drive improvement to neighborhood name coverage in OSM? I am not proposing an import, but a local MapRoulette challenge might work where people with local knowledge accept / reject proposed neighborhood points, or something along those lines. Martijn I don't use points (a POI with place=* or neighbourhood=* tag) but rather named polygons which surround/define a given named residential area. These seem to work just as well: What I've done in my city is to get the (public domain) digital city data for how parcels are grouped together into polygons defining residential neighborhoods, with names in the name=* tag (and even numbers for each residential neighborhood, which I've put into the ref=* tag). These get an additional landuse=residential tag, and voilá, OSM (the database), mapnik and Nominatim all capture/display/index each neighborhood properly (Nominatim nicely and correctly as Residential area.) The same data sets also contain outer-parcel-edge boundaries for commercial and industrial districts, which of course get landuse=commercial and landuse=industrial tags (respectively), as well as THEIR name=* (and ref=*) tags. As a result, our city displays very nicely, all neighborhoods/districts show up in Nominatim, and the OSM database contains definitive, correct polygons, straight from a public domain source (the city GIS department). There are a very small number (two, three?) of additional data points which my neighbors use as community names (like East Park or Midtown) which the city doesn't actually define, but people who live and/or work there do. For these, I use place=locality, name=* tags, and they render with a slightly different font (and smaller type size) than the neighborhoods/districts above. For these, I place the point at a significant cultural centroid for those small sub-communities (place=suburb is too big, though I have also defined four of those in my city of 60,000 -- suburb points also display with distinct/different typeface/size, and at certain zoom levels which make it clear they are suburbs). From both an in the OSM DB and a how does mapnik display this (in addition to how Nominatim indexes), I believe this is completely correct, and they look nice, too. I sincerely believe anybody who lives in these neighborhoods would agree. I would guess many medium- and larger-sized cities have these sorts of datasets available: they are just big polygons that surround a neighborhood or commercial/industrial district: no single point required. While these might take up more space in OSM's database, the extra points for the polygon-defining way makes them quite exact, and mapnik's rendering is in the very center of each polygon: a nice way to do it. I invite you to take a look (within the City limits): http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37lon=-122zoom=14layers=M I don't think Zillow or Geonames should be leaned on too heavily (if at all) to define these: where neighborhoods begin and end is very much a local thing, and usually the City itself (or the County for unincorporated areas) or people who live locally are best at defining these. That's why I'd say MapRoulette is a poor candidate for doing this: you won't get local knowledge, you're just crowd-sourcing what effectively becomes an import among many, and they don't really know whether the data are high quality or not. SteveA California ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
But how would such a thing be tagged? For instance, here in Portland, we have defined neighborhoods, which have neighborhood associations, and a city bureau (the Office of Neighborhood Involvement) dedicated to working with those organizations. They are, in a very real, if not technically legal sense, administrative units of the City. There is often good correlation between perceived/colloquial neighborhood, and the boundaries defined by the ONI, but not always. So is there a need to distinguish in tags perceived neighborhoods and administrative defined ones? And, if we insist on being able to ground truth something, do perceived neighborhoods even belong anywhere in OSM? (For the record, I think the ground truth requirement to be quite often untenable…) d. On Jun 11, 2013, at 12:57, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: Yea, I think this is where sources like Geonames and Zillow, which are built (to an extent) based on actual perceived names rather than official ones, could be so valuable - and why GNIS populated places are detrimental to OSM map quality, at least in many urban areas. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
Nathaniel Kelso David Blackman's presentation at #sotmus on Quattroshapes might offer some guidance, at least with respect to a method. They used Foursquare checkins and geotagged Flickr photos to calculate some boundaries. Now, I am more likely to check in at Arlington (my city) than I am in East Falls Church (my neighborhood), but perhaps we could organize a project around a similar method? -- SEJ -- twitter: @geomantic -- skype: sejohnson8 There are two types of people in the world. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete data. On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 4:30 PM, stevea stevea...@softworkers.com wrote: OSM has pretty poor neighborhood coverage in the US. We have around 1100 place=neighbo[u]rhood. Geonames has ten times that at 11,000 (feature class P.PPLX - not sure if all of those are neighborhoods) and Zillow has 7,000. Both these data sets are provided under (different) CC licenses. Could we use either Geonames or Zillow to drive improvement to neighborhood name coverage in OSM? I am not proposing an import, but a local MapRoulette challenge might work where people with local knowledge accept / reject proposed neighborhood points, or something along those lines. Martijn I don't use points (a POI with place=* or neighbourhood=* tag) but rather named polygons which surround/define a given named residential area. These seem to work just as well: What I've done in my city is to get the (public domain) digital city data for how parcels are grouped together into polygons defining residential neighborhoods, with names in the name=* tag (and even numbers for each residential neighborhood, which I've put into the ref=* tag). These get an additional landuse=residential tag, and voilá, OSM (the database), mapnik and Nominatim all capture/display/index each neighborhood properly (Nominatim nicely and correctly as Residential area.) The same data sets also contain outer-parcel-edge boundaries for commercial and industrial districts, which of course get landuse=commercial and landuse=industrial tags (respectively), as well as THEIR name=* (and ref=*) tags. As a result, our city displays very nicely, all neighborhoods/districts show up in Nominatim, and the OSM database contains definitive, correct polygons, straight from a public domain source (the city GIS department). There are a very small number (two, three?) of additional data points which my neighbors use as community names (like East Park or Midtown) which the city doesn't actually define, but people who live and/or work there do. For these, I use place=locality, name=* tags, and they render with a slightly different font (and smaller type size) than the neighborhoods/districts above. For these, I place the point at a significant cultural centroid for those small sub-communities (place=suburb is too big, though I have also defined four of those in my city of 60,000 -- suburb points also display with distinct/different typeface/size, and at certain zoom levels which make it clear they are suburbs). From both an in the OSM DB and a how does mapnik display this (in addition to how Nominatim indexes), I believe this is completely correct, and they look nice, too. I sincerely believe anybody who lives in these neighborhoods would agree. I would guess many medium- and larger-sized cities have these sorts of datasets available: they are just big polygons that surround a neighborhood or commercial/industrial district: no single point required. While these might take up more space in OSM's database, the extra points for the polygon-defining way makes them quite exact, and mapnik's rendering is in the very center of each polygon: a nice way to do it. I invite you to take a look (within the City limits): http://www.openstreetmap.org/?**lat=37lon=-122zoom=14**layers=Mhttp://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37lon=-122zoom=14layers=M I don't think Zillow or Geonames should be leaned on too heavily (if at all) to define these: where neighborhoods begin and end is very much a local thing, and usually the City itself (or the County for unincorporated areas) or people who live locally are best at defining these. That's why I'd say MapRoulette is a poor candidate for doing this: you won't get local knowledge, you're just crowd-sourcing what effectively becomes an import among many, and they don't really know whether the data are high quality or not. SteveA California __**_ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-ushttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: OSM has pretty poor neighborhood coverage in the US. We have around 1100 place=neighbo[u]rhood. Geonames has ten times that at 11,000 (feature class P.PPLX - not sure if all of those are neighborhoods) and Zillow has 7,000. Both these data sets are provided under (different) CC licenses. Could we use either Geonames or Zillow to drive improvement to neighborhood name coverage in OSM? I am not proposing an import, but a local MapRoulette challenge might work where people with local knowledge accept / reject proposed neighborhood points, or something along those lines. We have city outlines of neighborhoods and sub neighborhoods. A couple of us have discussed adding them to Seattle but didn't know if neighborhood boundaries were acceptable. They can not be surveyed on the ground and they do change over time. Any thoughts? I wouldn't add a sub neighborhood since most people have never heard of the name! As far as MapRoulette, in Seattle we already have most gnis nodes somewhere near the center of the neighborhood. How do you see MapRoulette handling existing entries? One last thought. nextdoor.com is attempting to build on the concept of neighborhoods. I wonder if we could partner with them to get more help identifying their neighborhoods. Similar to Steve Coast's app that asked people to pick the front door of a house. Imagine if we had a bunch of people point to and name what they considered was their neighborhood. -- Clifford OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
One last thought. nextdoor.com is attempting to build on the concept of neighborhoods. I wonder if we could partner with them to get more help identifying their neighborhoods. Similar to Steve Coast's app that asked people to pick the front door of a house. Imagine if we had a bunch of people point to and name what they considered was their neighborhood. You'd end up with this: http://bostonography.com/images/misc/neighborhoods_labeled.jpg Discussed here: http://bostonography.com/2012/wanted-your-map-of-boston-neighborhoods/ d. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 3:45 PM, Darrell Fuhriman darr...@garnix.orgwrote: You'd end up with this: http://bostonography.com/images/misc/neighborhoods_labeled.jpg Discussed here: http://bostonography.com/2012/wanted-your-map-of-boston-neighborhoods/ True. I suppose part of it is wanting to be associated with a more desirable neighborhood. One of the advantages of just using a neighborhood node is not having to have fixed boundaries. If we got survey results back we could then average the results to find a center point for the node. Fuzzy logic anyone? -- Clifford OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
Martin, In many Los Angeles neighborhoods, asking residents is not feasible. Most are in cars, not walking. Some people wouldn't talk to you, and many wouldn't know, given the transient nature of some neighborhoods. On the other hand, the City of Los Angeles has been identifying a number of neighborhoods and gracing them with signs on main roads. For Los Angeles, at least, city government would be a good source. I believe there is a trend in many other large cities to identify neighborhoods. Charlotte At 12:21 PM 6/11/2013, you wrote: On 11/giu/2013, at 21:07, Mike N nice...@att.net wrote: Often, I can't determine the subdivision boundary from either Bing or a survey; I'd need to see an organization map which would be of questionable license. or ask the people that live there, would that be feasible? cheers, Martin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: Hiya, I am not proposing an import, but a local MapRoulette challenge might work where people with local knowledge accept / reject proposed neighborhood points, or something along those lines. I think neighborhoods are not something that really fits the OSM model well. OSM is great for visable (ie surveyable) features, but does a historically poor job at features which are not ground surveyable, I think it's better for us to use these services for rendering and geocoding, and not putting this data in OSM. - Serge ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 3:25 PM, Darrell Fuhriman darr...@garnix.orgwrote: But how would such a thing be tagged? By boundary, what's the next level below city? For instance, here in Portland, we have defined neighborhoods, which have neighborhood associations, and a city bureau (the Office of Neighborhood Involvement) dedicated to working with those organizations. They are, in a very real, if not technically legal sense, administrative units of the City. Portland calls them districts, with the exception of the Rose Quarter, but there's no distinction between district and quarter in the Portland sense, and they do have defined boundaries. Pretty sure ONI would be happy to point you in the right direction. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
I'm really intrigued by this conversation. Neighborhood identity is subjective - collectively defined by residents and stakeholders (businesses, and other organizations) within and outside of the neighborhood as well as governments, politicians, and the media. Nonetheless, I believe they belong in OpenStreetmap because they are an important part of capturing what may not physically be on the ground but the name is represented in discussion and the neighborhood may have characteristics unique to its bordering neighborhoods (housing types, types of businesses, socioeconomic status, local business types, and obviously, local geographic features - lakes, rivers, etc) Given the subjective, fluid nature of neighborhoods - especially boundaries - where one neighborhood ends and one begins - may change from person to person, they are best represented as a single node in the area where there is greatest consensus that the neighborhood is located. This can be very roughly estimated by OSM mappers who locally live in or near the area. stevea, Great work that you've done in your area with the neighborhood classification. I would just caution that deriving Neighborhood boundaries solely from the governments could be problematic because they don't represent the other stakeholders (mentioned earlier) and in the case of Cleveland, Ohio, neighborhood names designated by city planners are used mostly for planning purposes and have little influence on neighborhood identity reality on the ground. As darrell just mentioned, soliciting people to draw their neighborhoods has been done in Boston by Andy Woodward as well as Bill Morris in Burlington, Vt. As for tagging, as I understand, based on existing practice and previous discussions - lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2009-August/001437.html and lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2008-December/000594.html , neighborhoods within municipal limits, place=suburb is actually the most appropriate based on the tag's description in the wiki and d. place=neighbourhood was for smaller, distinct areas that would be considered to be within an existing neighborhood (place=suburb) but also be referred to by and additional name as well. An example of this in Cleveland would be Gordon Square within the Detroit-Shoreway neighborhood. Regarding Zillow, I'd hesitate to import them but only because of my very limited experience of them (being Akron and Cleveland) where their neighborhood names were derived from local government data sets and in both cases were quite outdated and were representing the reality for most within Cleveland. Regards, Will ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 5:47 PM, william skora skorasau...@gmail.comwrote: Given the subjective, fluid nature of neighborhoods - especially boundaries - where one neighborhood ends and one begins - may change from person to person, they are best represented as a single node in the area where there is greatest consensus that the neighborhood is located. This can be very roughly estimated by OSM mappers who locally live in or near the area. One reason for including boundaries is querying to determine what exists in a neighborhood. Another is to see the result from a search using nominatim. A single node doesn't really tell much of a story, while a boundary give a better scope of the neighborhood. It might be more compelling for 3rd parties to use our information if we included the boundaries. They in turn give us greater visibility. And while the boundaries may not be exact, people can always change them! -- Clifford OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] OpenStreetMap outreach opportunity
Organized by National 4-H? It's in DC area, so any of us in DC could help out. But how to connect to them? Wonder if this is an ESRI related thing? I'd expect to see their name on it if so. * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron From: Steven Johnson sejohns...@gmail.com To: diversity-t...@openstreetmap.org; Open Street Map Talk-US talk-us@openstreetmap.org Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 3:25 PM Subject: [Talk-us] OpenStreetMap outreach opportunity Hi all, (Cross-posting to talk-us the *brand-spanking new* diversity-talk list... Yay.) I'm following up on our great discussion at #sotmus about diversity and, in this specific case, outreach/education to broaden the community base. I want to point out this upcoming National Youth Summit on Geospatial Technologies[1]. It looks like a fantastic opportunity to expose young mappers to the awesomeness that is OpenStreetMap...if we can get on the program. (I have no idea if the program is set, nor how tightly scripted it is.) Even if we can't participate, I'd like to draw attention to it as an example of the kinds of events we should look to for outreach and community development. Thoughts on next steps? Please discuss... [1] http://www.nationalyouthsummit.org/ -- SEJ -- twitter: @geomantic -- skype: sejohnson8 There are two types of people in the world. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete data. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Videos of State of the Map US are up!
We have just finished video uploads from this weekend’s State of the Map US sessions. This year we've made an effort to have solid video streaming and recording with the intention to connect more people around the ideas shared at the conference. If you couldn’t make it to San Francisco or if you missed a particular session, catch up on the State of the Map US 2013 session video page or find videos linked directly from the conference schedule. http://openstreetmap.us/2013/06/sotmus-videos/ We're also hoping that if you're a speaker we could do you a service by having a video of your talk. The sessions were amazing, a big thank you to everyone who took the time to create a presentation. I'd like to encourage everyone to share their videos in their own blog post / tweets / mails to friends to just further spread these ideas. Let's use these conferences to get together and talk more with each other / write more code with each other and more. There's tons of stuff to be figured out in OpenStreetMap. I walk away inspired. Thank you for everyone coming out. -- Alex Barth Secretary OpenStreetMap United States Inc. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 19:38:29 -0500 From: Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org To: Darrell Fuhriman darr...@garnix.org Cc: Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org, OpenStreetMap Talk-US Mailing List talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow Message-ID: campm96rhaachymoedwq+bxnafvr5yhasykaenplag4cs0gk...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 3:25 PM, Darrell Fuhriman darr...@garnix.orgwrote: But how would such a thing be tagged? By boundary, what's the next level below city? For instance, here in Portland, we have defined neighborhoods, which have neighborhood associations, and a city bureau (the Office of Neighborhood Involvement) dedicated to working with those organizations. They are, in a very real, if not technically legal sense, administrative units of the City. Portland calls them districts, with the exception of the Rose Quarter, but there's no distinction between district and quarter in the Portland sense, and they do have defined boundaries. Pretty sure ONI would be happy to point you in the right direction. Many new neighborhoods are built by a single builder and are conveniently named, Arbor Heights for example, http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.55768lon=-122.81313zoom=17layers=M. Group several of these together to form an, um, neighborhood. -Dion___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] OpenStreetMap outreach opportunity
I imagine we can just hit them up with an email to get on their radar. Any DC folks want to get involved in it? I can reach out to GeoDC channels to see if anyone else is attending or has a connection. On Jun 11, 2013, at 6:13 PM, Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com wrote: Organized by National 4-H? It's in DC area, so any of us in DC could help out. But how to connect to them? Wonder if this is an ESRI related thing? I'd expect to see their name on it if so. * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron From: Steven Johnson sejohns...@gmail.com To: diversity-t...@openstreetmap.org; Open Street Map Talk-US talk-us@openstreetmap.org Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 3:25 PM Subject: [Talk-us] OpenStreetMap outreach opportunity Hi all, (Cross-posting to talk-us the *brand-spanking new* diversity-talk list... Yay.) I'm following up on our great discussion at #sotmus about diversity and, in this specific case, outreach/education to broaden the community base. I want to point out this upcoming National Youth Summit on Geospatial Technologies[1]. It looks like a fantastic opportunity to expose young mappers to the awesomeness that is OpenStreetMap...if we can get on the program. (I have no idea if the program is set, nor how tightly scripted it is.) Even if we can't participate, I'd like to draw attention to it as an example of the kinds of events we should look to for outreach and community development. Thoughts on next steps? Please discuss... [1] http://www.nationalyouthsummit.org/ -- SEJ -- twitter: @geomantic -- skype: sejohnson8 There are two types of people in the world. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete data. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] OpenStreetMap outreach opportunity
I'd love to participate as well. Bonnie, if you reach out let us know what sort of next steps are needed. I'll also mention this at Monday's GeoNYC. Thanks for bringing this up as an idea! Best, Alyssa. On Jun 11, 2013, at 10:23 PM, Bonnie Bogle bon...@mapbox.com wrote: I imagine we can just hit them up with an email to get on their radar. Any DC folks want to get involved in it? I can reach out to GeoDC channels to see if anyone else is attending or has a connection. On Jun 11, 2013, at 6:13 PM, Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com wrote: Organized by National 4-H? It's in DC area, so any of us in DC could help out. But how to connect to them? Wonder if this is an ESRI related thing? I'd expect to see their name on it if so. * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron From: Steven Johnson sejohns...@gmail.com To: diversity-t...@openstreetmap.org; Open Street Map Talk-US talk-us@openstreetmap.org Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 3:25 PM Subject: [Talk-us] OpenStreetMap outreach opportunity Hi all, (Cross-posting to talk-us the *brand-spanking new* diversity-talk list... Yay.) I'm following up on our great discussion at #sotmus about diversity and, in this specific case, outreach/education to broaden the community base. I want to point out this upcoming National Youth Summit on Geospatial Technologies[1]. It looks like a fantastic opportunity to expose young mappers to the awesomeness that is OpenStreetMap...if we can get on the program. (I have no idea if the program is set, nor how tightly scripted it is.) Even if we can't participate, I'd like to draw attention to it as an example of the kinds of events we should look to for outreach and community development. Thoughts on next steps? Please discuss... [1] http://www.nationalyouthsummit.org/ -- SEJ -- twitter: @geomantic -- skype: sejohnson8 There are two types of people in the world. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete data. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
stevea, Great work that you've done in your area with the neighborhood classification. I would just caution that deriving Neighborhood boundaries solely from the governments could be problematic because they don't represent the other stakeholders (mentioned earlier) and in the case of Cleveland, Ohio, neighborhood names designated by city planners are used mostly for planning purposes and have little influence on neighborhood identity reality on the ground. I totally agree, and thank you for the kudos. My little city (and the way that it looks in OSM) is (now) only a rough sketch. I am an early contributor. That's why I'm casting a wide net with seed examples of both city-government defined districts (which DO have community input: we have a vibrant and activist population who attend City Council meetings with a serious fervor) AND the more vague centroids of simple points that don't fit into a round hole as a the odd square peg named Terrace Hill or Midtown. (Alike. This needs broad brushes because there are broad strokes required to paint this canvas. Thankfully, OSM accommodates, even in both standard rendering and indexing). Communities ought to have multiple identities, such as the residential city-government consensus polygons I've mentioned, AND centroid points of vague here is something the locals call it around her alike. All are in the db, all render, and all are shown in indexes, rather appropriately. This is OK, if not pretty darn good. As darrell just mentioned, soliciting people to draw their neighborhoods has been done in Boston by Andy Woodward as well as Bill Morris in Burlington, Vt. As for tagging, as I understand, based on existing practice and previous discussions - http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2009-August/001437.htmllists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2009-August/001437.html and http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2008-December/000594.htmllists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2008-December/000594.html , neighborhoods within municipal limits, place=suburb is actually the most appropriate based on the tag's description in the wiki and d. place=neighbourhood was for smaller, distinct areas that would be considered to be within an existing neighborhood (place=suburb) but also be referred to by and additional name as well. An example of this in Cleveland would be Gordon Square within the Detroit-Shoreway neighborhood. Workable, plastic, inventive and appropriate. Excellent! (IMHO). Regarding Zillow, I'd hesitate to import them but only because of my very limited experience of them (being Akron and Cleveland) where their neighborhood names were derived from local government data sets and in both cases were quite outdated and were representing the reality for most within Cleveland. Neighborhood definition across the rural/urban USA in a map like OSM (at least in these earlier years) is a fluid thing, it requires essentially constant input. When and where we find we are talking ourselves to death we can back off. Right now this is about weaving together strands that make a braid of consensus. So far, so good. I like the various approaches, I like the attaboys, I like the multiple input. Keep it up! We are building a better national community about how better to do this by this dialog (multi-log?) here. Capturing multiple semantics via slightly multiple syntax smears is OK. We [can, might] sharpen focus later. Three-hundred-million-plus at a time, I find it humbling to type like this. I am just a simple human being. SteveA California___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
