laugh out loud and shake my head more than once at the original post, so I'm not innocent either!). :0
Tim
-Original Message-
From: Miguel Roig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wed 1/18/2006 3:19 PM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences
Subject: RE: astonishing Psy.D. dissertation
Scott Lilienfeld wrote:
(I also don't agree in principle that
one can't judge at least some of the merits of a research project by reading an
Abstract, as a silly research question is a silly research question regardless
of how well or carefully the study is executed, but that's
Perhaps the problem here is that too many of us (with Ph.Ds) are
regarding the Psy.D. as a real doctorate. It isn't, any more than the
M.D. (the obvious model for the degree's name) is a real doctorate
(which is why there are PhDs in medicine as well). It's is nothing more
than an advanced
Scott wrote...
But there's a world of difference between (a) putting a therapy that is
being widely used clinically, such as facilitated communication,
rebirthing, or Therapeutic Touch, to an empirical test (which I firmly and
strongly support) and (b) testing a questionable hypothesis
Chris et al.: The Vail Model (the counterpart to the Boulder or
scientist-practitioner Model embraced by most clinical Ph.D. programs),
which articulated educational and training standards for Psy.D.
programs, was explicitly put forth as a scholar-professional
(scholar-practitioner) model.
Rick: I agree with much of what you say, especially in your concluding
sentence. In fact, the journal I edit (Scientific Review of Mental
Health Practice) is devoted explicitly to distinguishing scientific from
nonscientific methods, and we routinely publish literature reviews and
empirical
]
(479) 524-7295
http://www.jbu.edu/academics/sbs/faculty/rfroman.asp
-Original Message-
From: Scott Lilienfeld [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 10:08 AM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences
Subject: Re: astonishing Psy.D. dissertation
Rick: I agree with much
Scott- As open minded as I try to be this one does sound,
what's a good word, hoky, assinine, silly? :)Tim
From: Scott Lilienfeld
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 7:55
AMTo: Teaching in the Psychological SciencesSubject: Re:
astonishing Psy.D. dissertation
Tim
I agree that the research design was flawed but I disagree that the
hypothesis was silly on its face.
Does the discussion of whether the hypothesis is silly boil down to whether
there's a plausible theoretical mechanism for the proposed result?
Kris Vasquez
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in the Psychological Sciences
Subject: Re: astonishing Psy.D. dissertation
Rick: I agree with much of what you say, especially in your concluding
sentence. In fact, the journal I edit (Scientific Review of Mental
Health Practice) is devoted explicitly to distinguishing scientific from
Scott Lilienfeld wrote:
So Chris Green is correct that the Psy.D. is an advanced
practitioner's degree. But a Psy.D. ostensibly is more than a
technician. He or she is supposed to be a scholar first and foremost,
Perhaps we're debating ideals vs. realitites, but it seems pretty clear
to me
Chris Green wrote:
Perhaps we're debating ideals vs. realitites, but it seems pretty
clear
to me that anyone who gets a PsyD does so precisely because they want
to
a clinician, rather than a scholar, first and foremost. (Not that one
couldn't be both, but many have no interest in being both,
-Original Message-
From: Christopher Green [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[snip]
Perhaps we're debating ideals vs. realitites, but it seems
pretty clear to me that anyone who gets a PsyD does so
precisely because they want to a clinician, rather than a
scholar, first and foremost.
For a PsyD program to receive APA accreditation, they may need a research
requirement of some kind (since APA still follows the
scientist-practitioner model). In many states, to be licensed, you need
to come from an APA accredited program.
David
At 03:10 PM 1/19/2006, you wrote:
-Original
PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006
2:20 PMTo: Teaching in the Psychological
SciencesSubject: RE: astonishing Psy.D.
dissertation
For a PsyD program to receive APA accreditation, they may need a
research requirement of some kind (since APA still follows the
scientist
: Thursday, January 19, 2006 2:20 PM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences
Subject: RE: astonishing Psy.D. dissertation
For a PsyD program to receive APA accreditation, they may need a
research requirement of some kind (since APA still follows the
scientist-practitioner model). In many states
: David Wasieleski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 2:20 PM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences
Subject: RE: astonishing Psy.D. dissertation
For a PsyD program to receive APA accreditation, they may need a
research requirement of some kind
I sent that info to a very bright student of mine who, with her husband,
runs a farm with sheep and goats. I agree with her, and didn't find the
paper to be ridiculous or astonishing at all. Below is an excerpt from her
reply:
Beth Benoit
Granite State College
Portsmouth NH
Do I take
Just curious
Am I the only TIPs member who finds it rather silly to conduct a
study that on attachment that:
(1) relies exclusively on participants diagnosed with one of the most
poorly validated diagnoses in the DSM (reactive attachment disorder, for
which the validity evidence is
Scott,
I do share your concerns that there are some problems with design and
potential interpretation of the results. But I doubt if any of our
dissertations were air-tight. Don't get me wrong, the design issues
need to be addressed and any generalizations from this study would be,
imho,
But Steven, even if it's only problematic (and admittedly, my judgment
is more negative than yours and Chris Green's), doesn't it worry you
that we are awarding such people the highest scholarly degree in the
world? A Psy.D. is, after all, a doctoral degree, and in most Psy.D.
programs the
Sciences tips@acsun.frostburg.edu
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: astonishing Psy.D. dissertation
Scott,
I do share your concerns that there are some problems with design and
potential interpretation of the results. But I doubt if any of our
dissertations were air-tight
Scott Lilienfeld wrote:
Just curious
Am I the only TIPs member who finds it rather silly to conduct a
study that on attachment that:
No, I thought it was fairly silly too. Though perhaps not so silly (in
light of lots of other published psychological research) that I would
have
I will yield to Scott's judgement on the deficiencies in the study. My
comment had only to do with the possible value of the experience,
including its use in research.
don
Donald McBurney
Scott Lilienfeld wrote:
Just curious
Am I the only TIPs member who finds it rather silly
Let me add my 2 cents to Scott's:
I find it astonishing also that this was a complete doctoral dissertation. I
don't think that the clinical field is THAT much different from other
empirically based fields of psychological research for the dissertation. I
found this dissertation, in and of
At 09:47 AM 1/18/2006, you wrote:
Scott Lilienfeld wrote:
Just curious
Am I the only TIPs member who finds it rather silly to conduct a
study that on attachment that:
No, I thought it was fairly silly too. Though perhaps not so silly (in
light of lots of other published
Jim Dougan wrote:
I do thing it is a reasonable hypothesis that meaningful exposure to
animal husbandry will have a positive impact on the mentally ill.
Sadly, that hypothesis was not adequately assessed in the present study.
-- Jim
Thank goodness, all those years of running
Ken Steele wrote:
Jim Dougan wrote:
I do thing it is a reasonable hypothesis that meaningful exposure to
animal husbandry will have a positive impact on the mentally ill.
Sadly, that hypothesis was not adequately assessed in the present study.
Thank goodness, all those years of running
I was wondering if working with rats counted as a positive or negative. I "sacrificed" more rats than I can count and have a long history of poor interpersonal relationships. If anyone has any goats that I could use...More seriously, I agree with some of the comments about the quality of the
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences
Subject: Re: astonishing Psy.D. dissertation
But Steven, even if it's only problematic (and admittedly, my judgment
is more negative than yours and Chris Green's), doesn't it worry you
that we are awarding such people the highest scholarly degree
some thoughts on a windy late afternoon ...
Miguel
-Original Message-
From: Scott Lilienfeld [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:53 AM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences
Subject: Re: astonishing Psy.D. dissertation
But Steven, even if it's only
]
Sent: Wed 1/18/2006 3:19 PM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences
Subject: RE: astonishing Psy.D. dissertation
For me, this discussion raises another issue, which perhaps partly explains
the somewhat unusual nature of this dissertation. The issue is this: To what
extent should a doctoral
Beth Benoit wrote that her student reported:
They witnessed twin kids being born. The daughter promptly proposed to her
boyfriend and had a baby.
Now that's a powerful effect, especially the promptly part. Will it put
fertility clinics and pregnancy out of business?
And Grinch Lilienfeld
I thought that some of you might be interested in this recent remarkable
dissertation from a student in a major Psy.D. program (I have deleted
the student's name) which a colleague brought to my attention. This
dissertation may say something about the quality of the teaching of
psychology in
Scott:
I wonder if you grew up around farm animals and ever witnessed a
large animal giving birth. It is something one doesn't forget soon. I
suspect that one who has might have a different reaction. Even watching
a cat give birth can be a big experience to a child, and I think, a
healthy
in the Psychological Sciences tips@acsun.frostburg.edu
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: astonishing Psy.D. dissertation
Scott:
I wonder if you grew up around farm animals and ever witnessed a
large animal giving birth. It is something one doesn't forget soon. I
suspect that one who
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: Scott Lilienfeld [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 4:53 PM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences
Subject: astonishing Psy.D. dissertation
I thought that some of you might be interested in this recent remarkable
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