Tiresome accusations like this ought to be banned from this list. Have you ever
once seen a paycheck cut for the job of Internet trolling? Really? Really?
Because it sounds like an awesome part time job, frankly.
On Dec 19, 2011, at 8:10, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
> Cude what does this have
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
wrote:
> Christ man high school students replicated P&F with both excess heat and
> transmutations, in a MIT lab and in front of over 100 ICCF 10 attendees?
This reminded me of a Dilbert cartoon (since you seem interested in comic
relief):
http:
On Dec 19, 2011, at 11:36 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
I didn't invent the name. It was called the "Fleischmann-Pons
Effect" for years. Google it. All I'm suggesting is that we should
honour the effect they discovered with their names, even if we
don't know how and why it happens. No point
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 6:46 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint <
zeropo...@charter.net> wrote:
> Joshua wrote:
>
> “… And a top academic career would be a chair at a university or director
> of a research institute.”
>
> ** **
>
> Well, Josh, by your own definition, Dr. Robert Duncan, Vice Chanc
Joshua wrote:
". And a top academic career would be a chair at a university or director of
a research institute."
Well, Josh, by your own definition, Dr. Robert Duncan, Vice Chancellor of
Research at Univ of Missouri, would then most definitely qualify as "top
academic career", and he was ske
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
> I do have him killfiled. For my peace of mind.
>
>
>
What a coincidence. Your posts all go to a special file too: my
must-reply-to file. In a way, it's a kill file, too. Unfortunately, I can't
always keep up with your verbosity, and sometim
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> Vorl Bek wrote:
>
>
>> > > Gene went from a top academic career to working in a
>> > > warehouse at night to feed his family.
>> > >
>> >
>> > He was a science writer. Respectable, yes. Top academic career,
>> > no.
>>
>
> In my opinion, be
You skipped over the bit about the up and down transmutations they found
on the cathodes. As for the temperature, you need to read the reports
and see the photographs. It is not what you said.
On 12/20/2011 10:15 AM, Joshua Cude wrote:
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
mail
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 7:43 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
wrote:
> Did the DOE visit the students results? I suggest not. Did they sit in
> front of a SEM and see the transmutated products? I suggest they did not
> and never left their office.
I suggest you didn't either.
Sorry but real word results tr
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
wrote:
> Christ man high school students replicated P&F with both excess heat and
> transmutations, in a MIT lab and in front of over 100 ICCF 10 attendees?
And what did those 100 people see? A power supply pumping 3 A into a cell,
and a mercury
I didn't invent the name. It was called the "Fleischmann-Pons Effect"
for years. Google it. All I'm suggesting is that we should honour the
effect they discovered with their names, even if we don't know how and
why it happens. No point in inventing a new name for an effect that
already has a ve
Horace it was known as the "Fleischmann-Pons Effect" for years. Check
Jed's archives.
AG
On 12/20/2011 12:14 AM, Horace Heffner wrote:
On Dec 19, 2011, at 4:29 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
Horace I suggest that call should be made when we have nailed the
exact process that caused Effect A a
What the heck is stopping someone from taking private money and doing research
in their basement?
From: Jed Rothwell
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miley and other professors can only take money from
Mary Yugo wrote:
By the way, why don't you contact Jed personally about his experience
with Defkalion and trying to arrange a visit with them.
There is nothing to be said about that. It was delayed and delayed, and
it appears to have petered out. Delays, confusion and cancellations are
not u
> On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Vorl Bek
> wrote:
>
> > That's OK. To the degree I can follow this, I agree with him
> > rather than you or the other optimists here.
>
> Then what is the reason for your presence on this list? To turn
> optimism into pessimism? To "fix" those optimists?
I
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Vorl Bek wrote:
> That's OK. To the degree I can follow this, I agree with him
> rather than you or the other optimists here.
Then what is the reason for your presence on this list? To turn
optimism into pessimism? To "fix" those optimists?
T
Jed Rothwell wrote:
> I do have him killfiled. For my peace of mind.
>
> I apologize if I mixed you up with him. I wasn't paying much
> attention to the top of the message, or who wrote it. Sorry
> about that.
That's OK. To the degree I can follow this, I agree with him
rather than you or the ot
Vorl Bek wrote:
> > faced. So I suggest you stop making ignorant assertions about
> > him.
>
> I think you have Cude killfiled, or you would know that he wrote
> what you are replying to.
>
I do have him killfiled. For my peace of mind.
I apologize if I mixed you up with him. I wasn't paying m
Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
You have seen the high school students doing FPE excess heat experiments at
> MIT during ICCF-10?
I loved those kids! They know more chemistry than I'll ever master. But the
experiment was far from definitive. I would call it suggestive, and worthy
of further attention.
Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
> You did not know him. You did not spend weeks at his house, as I
> did. You do know what he accomplished, or what difficulties he
> faced. So I suggest you stop making ignorant assertions about
> him.
I think you have Cude killfiled, or you would know that he wrote
what y
Vorl Bek wrote:
> > > Gene went from a top academic career to working in a
> > > warehouse at night to feed his family.
> > >
> >
> > He was a science writer. Respectable, yes. Top academic career,
> > no.
>
In my opinion, being the science writer at MIT puts you at the top of your
career. Gen
On Dec 19, 2011, at 4:29 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
Horace I suggest that call should be made when we have nailed the
exact process that caused Effect A and Effect B to have a different
pathway. Until that time, if it ever occurs, I feel "Different Dog,
Same Leg Action" is the road to fol
Did the DOE visit the students results? I suggest not. Did they sit in
front of a SEM and see the transmutated products? I suggest they did not
and never left their office. Sorry but real word results trumps DOE
theory anytime. As far as replicating P&F, did you actually read the
test results t
On Dec 18, 2011, at 11:18 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
McKubre believes in the "Conservation of Miracles". I agree with
him and would add my version: "Different dog, same leg action".
What is at the heart of the FPE drives all the effects we see. For
all the early years the effect was calle
I can't believe you really think that is a correct assessment. F&P have
been replicated. Just have a read through Jed's archives. Christ man
high school students replicated P&F with both excess heat and
transmutations, in a MIT lab and in front of over 100 ICCF 10 attendees?
Where you there? Ha
Horace I suggest that call should be made when we have nailed the exact
process that caused Effect A and Effect B to have a different pathway.
Until that time, if it ever occurs, I feel "Different Dog, Same Leg
Action" is the road to follow. I have no problem if say WL is proven to
be the corre
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 7:15 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
wrote:
> I state again. 1 professor, 1 grad and 2 high school students replicated
> F&P in a MIT lab in front of over 100 ICCF 10 participants in 2002 and
> 2003. The observed excess heat and transmutations.
It wasn't enough to convince the DOE i
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 7:10 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
wrote:
> Cude what does this have to do with F&P having been replicated in many
> labs all over the world?
They haven't been. McKubre himself has said that no one has achieved
quantitative reproducibility. And interlay reproducibility always requ
On Dec 18, 2011, at 11:18 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
McKubre believes in the "Conservation of Miracles". I agree with
him and would add my version: "Different dog, same leg action".
What is at the heart of the FPE drives all the effects we see. For
all the early years the effect was calle
I state again. 1 professor, 1 grad and 2 high school students replicated
F&P in a MIT lab in front of over 100 ICCF 10 participants in 2002 and
2003. The observed excess heat and transmutations. The FPE is real and
can be easily replicated. Sorry but I have a Royal Flush and you have a
pair of
Cude what does this have to do with F&P having been replicated in many
labs all over the world? You need to accept that the FPE is real and
move on to working out why it happens. Oh BTW you just might apologize
to F&P for the treatment they received by you and your mates.
Would you please disc
On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 8:54 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
wrote:
> This is so wrong as to make me very upset. I'll do anything I can to get
> hold of a FPE device from Leonardo or Defkalion or who ever and shove it up
> some FPE deniers back side so far the sun will never shine on it again. And
> you wond
> On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 7:01 PM, Jed Rothwell
> wrote:
>
> > Gene went from a top academic career to working in a
> > warehouse at night to feed his family.
> >
>
> He was a science writer. Respectable, yes. Top academic career,
> no.
>
>
>
> >
> > Fleischmann and Pons had a terrible time.
On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 8:38 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> He sure knew what he was getting into. Fleischmann wrote a lighthearted
> account of this, quoted in Beaudette's book. It starts off with Arrhenius
> in 1883. He was one of the most important electrochemists in history, like
> Faraday. He mad
On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 7:01 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> Gene went from a top academic career to working in a warehouse at night
> to feed his family.
>
He was a science writer. Respectable, yes. Top academic career, no.
>
> Fleischmann and Pons had a terrible time.
>
Too much money? They had
Hello gang,
As a friend of Abd Lomax, I am keenly interested in his evolving plans
over the last two years to make a cheap do-it-yourself-at-home kit for
replicating the detection of neutron tracks in plastic film adjacent
to a 50 ml thin wall plastic cell with a palladium chloride and
lithium chl
McKubre believes in the "Conservation of Miracles". I agree with him and
would add my version: "Different dog, same leg action". What is at the
heart of the FPE drives all the effects we see. For all the early years
the effect was called the "Fleischmann-Pons Effect". Why change it now?
I say g
The use of the term FPE is misleading and confusing.
The Wright brothers invented the first controlled flight. It would
be nonsensical and misleading to call every kind of winged aircraft a
Wright machine, not distinguishing between a 747 and a piper cub. The
F&P protocol was Pd-D low volt
You have seen the high school students doing FPE excess heat experiments
at MIT during ICCF-10? They also found transmutated Silver:
http://www.lenr-canr.org/Experiments.htm (bout 60% of the way down) and
here:
http://www.lenr-canr.org/Collections/ICCF10.htm#Photos (Picture of our
Jed is 2nd fr
> I am not betting for you if you think you're getting one from Rossi or
>> Defkalion!
>>
> And if you are wrong? As you know I'm talking to DGT to do a factory
> visit. Just might talk Leonardo in one as well.
>
I would be delighted to be wrong about Rossi, Defkalion and your plans to
visit them
Well said Horace, well said.
On 12/19/2011 5:46 PM, Horace Heffner wrote:
I should have said: "However, when all is said and done, I expect the
creation and maintenance of LENR-CANR.org will prove to be the most
important contribution to the field, with the exception of those of
the founding
On 12/19/2011 5:19 PM, Mary Yugo wrote:
If it were possible to replicate F&P and build on it, there are
thousands of people and companies who would have.
They have been replicated. In many labs all around the world. Try
searching in Jed's archives. Have you not listened to anything Jed has
said
On Dec 18, 2011, at 4:01 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Horace Heffner wrote:
You kept the LENR flame visible and alive when many others worked
to put out the flame and to bury it in an unmarked grave that would
never be found.
Many others have made efforts of similar magnitude, even risking
On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 7:47 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
wrote:
> So you don't think the way F&P were treated and the fact that replication
> results were either forged or ignored was OK?
But that makes no sense. If it were possible to replicate F&P and build on
it, there are thousands of people and c
So you don't think the way F&P were treated and the fact that
replication results were either forged or ignored was OK? BTW Mary we
are still testing and developing a FPE device. Many have given us
encouragement and assistance. Jed's archives are a Aladdin's Cave of FPE
wonders. Will I get my h
On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 6:54 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
wrote:
> This is so wrong as to make me very upset. I'll do anything I can to get
> hold of a FPE device from Leonardo or Defkalion or who ever and shove it up
> some FPE deniers back side so far the sun will never shine on it again. And
> you wond
Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
This is so wrong as to make me very upset. I'll do anything I can to get
> hold of a FPE device from Leonardo or Defkalion or who ever and shove it up
> some FPE deniers back side so far the sun will never shine on it again.
The good news is that revenge is a dish best e
Here is a bit of comic relief:
http://www.cfeis.com/images/pseudoscepsticks_cartoon.jpg
On 12/19/2011 10:13 AM, Horace Heffner wrote:
On Dec 18, 2011, at 2:30 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
Jed you underestimate the contribution you have made. You have
invested a lot of time, effort and skin i
This is so wrong as to make me very upset. I'll do anything I can to get
hold of a FPE device from Leonardo or Defkalion or who ever and shove it
up some FPE deniers back side so far the sun will never shine on it
again. And you wonder why I have no time for most university chalk heads.
On 12
OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson wrote:
> > He knew he would be vilified and ridiculed for the rest of his life.
> > He went into it knowing what would happen. That was an act of courage.
> > But as he said, it was nothing like running for you life at age 13.
> >
> > Mind you, it gets his goa
On Dec 18, 2011, at 3:31 PM, Michele Comitini wrote:
Horace,
Your plan has a much broader scope IMHO, would be nice some politician
were able to understand it and apply it...
mic
Yes it would have been nice. I think Hillary Clinton had some
similar plans , but was not elected. She certa
One way to remember their achievement would be to rename LENR to the
"Fleischmann-Pons Effect" (FPE). ALL FPE devices should include it in
their name. Leonardo's E-Cat then becomes the Leonardo FPE E-Cat device.
Defkalion's Hyperion then becomes the Defkalion FPE Hyperion device.
Jed's web site
Wow!
Can't we start an open source development of CF?
2011/12/18 OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson
> From Jed
>
> ...
>
> > Fleischmann and Pons had a terrible time. I think it traumatized Pons.
> > It did not bother Fleischmann as much because he is a tough, cynical
> > person who had nightm
>From Jed
...
> Fleischmann and Pons had a terrible time. I think it traumatized Pons.
> It did not bother Fleischmann as much because he is a tough, cynical
> person who had nightmare experiences during WWII. The Gestapo beat his
> father to death, and he himself barely escaped. He told me that
Horace Heffner wrote:
>
> You kept the LENR flame visible and alive when many others worked to put
>> out the flame and to bury it in an unmarked grave that would never be found.
>>
>
> Many others have made efforts of similar magnitude, even risking their
> lives and health. However, when all i
Horace,
Your plan has a much broader scope IMHO, would be nice some politician
were able to understand it and apply it...
mic
2011/12/19 Horace Heffner :
>
> On Dec 18, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Michele Comitini wrote:
>
>>>
>>> The problem is in the methodology used to determine who gets the money.
>>
On Dec 18, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Michele Comitini wrote:
The problem is in the methodology used to determine who gets the
money.
As many other foundations do.
If someone does not agree with a foundation politics, then he can make
a better one.
The good thing of LENR is that however expensive t
>
> The problem is in the methodology used to determine who gets the money.
As many other foundations do.
If someone does not agree with a foundation politics, then he can make
a better one.
The good thing of LENR is that however expensive the research is, it
is to a level that it can avoid state/
Horace Heffner wrote:
> If LENR research is suppressed in the US then the US will be the worse off
> for it.
>
If?!? What do you mean "if"? It is already as suppressed as anything can
be! There are not more than a 6 or 8 researchers in the U.S., and they are
all being paid for from private mone
On Dec 18, 2011, at 2:30 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
Jed you underestimate the contribution you have made. You have
invested a lot of time, effort and skin in creating LENR-CANR.org
You kept the LENR flame visible and alive when many others worked
to put out the flame and to bury it in an
On Dec 18, 2011, at 2:02 PM, Michele Comitini wrote:
How about creating a foundation for distributing grants to researchers
in the field of LENR?
Of course the founding would come from private individuals and
institutions.
Would that make sense?
mic
I think this is a good idea.
The probl
Jed you underestimate the contribution you have made. You have invested
a lot of time, effort and skin in creating LENR-CANR.org You kept the
LENR flame visible and alive when many others worked to put out the
flame and to bury it in an unmarked grave that would never be found.
On 12/19/2011
Horace Heffner wrote:
> One lasting achievement of Rossi's genius at generating free publicity may
> have been to bring young people into the field.
>
I hope that will be the outcome. It hasn't happened yet.
> The timing of all this is unfortunate. Should an ignominious failure of
> Rossi'
How about creating a foundation for distributing grants to researchers
in the field of LENR?
Of course the founding would come from private individuals and institutions.
Would that make sense?
mic
2011/12/18 Horace Heffner :
>
> On Dec 18, 2011, at 8:22 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
> Daniel Rocha
On Dec 18, 2011, at 8:22 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Daniel Rocha wrote:
Jed, among LENR researchers, who is not old, or very old?
The ones who are dead.
Only old people can do this. For a young researcher cold fusion
would be career suicide. Even talking about it. She would be fired
and wo
On Dec 18, 2011, at 8:22 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Daniel Rocha wrote:
Jed, among LENR researchers, who is not old, or very old?
The ones who are dead.
Only old people can do this. For a young researcher cold fusion
would be career suicide. Even talking about it. She would be fired
and wo
I agree with your analysis.
stupidity, selfishness, greed, conformism, is the main result of applying
Occam razor
2011/12/18 Jed Rothwell
> There is no conspiracy against cold fusion but there are sure are a lot of
> nasty people trying to crush it, aren't there? As Bill Beaty pointed out,
> the
I wrote:
> Even Bockris was nearly fired.
>
See:
http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/BockrisJaccountabi.pdf
Some outlandish research, but someone's gotta try it:
http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/BockrisJthehistory.pdf
> Miles -- a distinguished fellow of the institute -- was reassigned as a
>
Wow that's a pretty bleak and discouraging assessment Jed, you must be
tremendously frustrated. I am just thankful that I am such a LENR
neophyte. Fingers crossed it appears the genie is now out of the bottle
and someone (Celani, Miley, Piantelli, Arata, McKubre, Ahern, Rossi,
Brillouin, Dekaflio
Daniel Rocha wrote:
Jed, among LENR researchers, who is not old, or very old?
The ones who are dead.
Only old people can do this. For a young researcher cold fusion would be
career suicide. Even talking about it. She would be fired and would never
get another job. Even Bockris was nearly fired
On Sun, 2011-12-18 at 11:09 -0500, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> Two or three people have contacted me suggesting we raise funds for
> Miley. I appreciate the sentiments, and I am sure George would too,
> but as far as I know universities only accept money from official
> sources such as corporations, phil
Jed, among LENR researchers, who is not old, or very old?
2011/12/18 Jed Rothwell
> Two or three people have contacted me suggesting we raise funds for Miley.
> I appreciate the sentiments, and I am sure George would too, but as far as
> I know universities only accept money from official source
On 2011-12-18 17:18, Terry Blanton wrote:
It wouldn't hurt to fill out this form:
http://www.shell.com/home/content/innovation/innovative_thinking/game_changer/submit_idea/
This might actually be a good idea.
By the way, until Krivit leaked that email from the ISCMNS mailing list,
I've never
On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> It is not that big a hurdle. If you know a corporation that has money, I
> expect the university would happy to arrange something.
It wouldn't hurt to fill out this form:
http://www.shell.com/home/content/innovation/innovative_thinking/gam
Two or three people have contacted me suggesting we raise funds for Miley.
I appreciate the sentiments, and I am sure George would too, but as far as
I know universities only accept money from official sources such as
corporations, philanthropic organizations, government agencies, etc. They
cannot
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