At 03:04 PM 1/24/2008, Gudrun wrote:
and N. Vita-More
" Using the term "Social-Darwinism" is inaccurate because it poisons
the well of your readership by implying that it is a desire for
those who are more fit than others to dominate. This term makes a
socio-economic/political inference, rather than explaining why
extropians want to self-improve. One of the most important
characteristics of extropians is the desire to see ALL humanity
improve, NOT a select few who can "afford" it. "
This is confusing. Fine that extropians want to self-improve. That
ALL humanity should improve, is quite questionable. Does all
humanity want to improve (immortality, happy pills, ...)?
Good point. Thank you for catching this and questioning it. You are
correct that not ALL humanity should improve if they do not want to
improve. That is why I support human rights to augment. I have
written and lectured on this quite a bit. Since we are both located
within the arts (you find art and me technology design) we ought to
discuss this openly and review each other's papers.
Can all humanity afford this improvement?
Within what time frame? Now, no - I cannot afford it. Tomorrow,
next year, next decade? Most likely next decade.
Isn't this a bit like many ideologies or religions that envisage a
better world with their rules and discoveries?
No it is not. Religious visions are based on prayer. Transhumanist
visions are based on technological and scientific probability.
What place do humans have in this scenario who do not want to improve ?
That is an individual choice. We see it today with people who cannot
hear who do not want to hear and resent being told they need to hear.
What are their rights?
Their rights are their choice. If they do not want to hear, that is
their choice.
Will extropians become an elite who rules all the others who are not
part of this enlightened scenario. Even if ruling is seen as an
unwanted process.
We do not live in the Roman times wherein a Caesar's' tyrannical rule
exists. Extropy and tyranny is an oxymoron. If you read the
principles of extropy you will see that critical thinking is
fundamental to the reasonableness or rationality of transhumanits.
How does the baptism work? Brainwashing, force-feeding, consumer
promise, gentle persuasion, religiously inspired promises?
Now you are being either silly or snide and that does not further discussion.
Immortality. Is immortality really so wonderful?
I'm not sure. Not in this body, nor. By the way, Extropy support
extreme life extension, indefinite lifespan or superlongevity.
I was thinking about Fosca in one of Simone de Beauvoir's novels. He
is immortal and lonely. He is one of few, if not the only one. Could
there be something like the BURDEN of immortality.
Of course and if you read over the many papers, books, etc. of
extropy you will see that this theme has been discussed at
length. Superlongevity does not mean that a person is forced to live
forever. For goodness sakes.
If all can share immortality, then reproduction is not necessary or
even unwanted (over-population).Or it is permitted for a few chosen ones.
Again, please read about these ideas before making assumptions about
issues that have been discussed for many, many years.
Or we multiply (in the biblical sense) and spread into outer space
with all our immortality? What about people from other
sects/ideologies/belief-systems who do not want to become immortal
other if then within their religious concepts of immortality of
souls, etc. Trans(post)humanism as materialised afterlife?
Moravec is interesting because he seems to propose and predict the
extinction of the human species. A form of 'extendec' suicide? A
form of self-hatred? A form of omnipotent delusion?
Not necessarily.
I also thought that Goertzel's texts were informative and good.
Yes I agree. Just a bit anti-extropian, but he is a fabulous person
and I think his views are important and I value his ideas.
Natasha
<http://www.natasha.cc/>Natasha <http://www.natasha.cc/>Vita-More
PhD Candidate, Planetary Collegium - University of Plymouth - Faculty
of Technology
School of Computing, Communications and Electronics
Centre for Advanced Inquiry in the Interactive Arts
If you draw a circle in the sand and study only what's inside the
circle, then that is a closed-system perspective. If you study what
is inside the circle and everything outside the circle, then that is
an open system perspective. - Buckminster Fuller
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