Joe, If the mezz sprinklers are the same temperature and also quick response would the conditions change from what you describe below assuming the correct density for control?
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Hankins Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 1:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Mezzanine/ ESFR If the area below the mezzanine is protected with control-mode sprinklers and the area above with ESFR, a fire below the mezzanine will operate ESFRs at the ceiling above. It's exactly the same as a roof elevation change with ESFRs on the high side and control mode on the low side, where you need a draft curtain and an aisle to separate the areas. FM recommends a draft curtain around the perimeter of the mezzanine if ESFRs are not provided under it. If ESFRs are provided under the mezzanine, then you can forget the draft curtain as long as there are ESFRs near the perimeter of the mezzanine and no storage beyond them. Sometimes the issue is not the hazard you are protecting, but what will happen during the fire. If you design for the hazard under the mezannine using control mode protection, a fire there can open sprinklers well beyond the actual fire area, up to the design area. If the fire starts near the edge of the mezzanine, the heat that would be expected to operate control mode sprinklers if they were there will operate ESFRs at the ceiling, as well.. Joe Fletcher, Ron wrote: > Sprinklers below and ESFR above just like an office area. The mezzanine > is too big to be an obstruction (my opinion), too low to require ESFR's > and you can't omit sprinklers. The 15 ft. rule would be applied to the > full height warehouse and extend 15 ft. past the edge of the mezzanine. > Not an issue here unless you want to pull the ESFR's above the mezzanine > and do area density with control mode, but why? > > Ron > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jimmy > Waite > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 2:32 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Mezzanine/ ESFR > > Ron, Thanks for your response. Can I ask your reasoning behind it? > > > Jimmy > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fletcher, > Ron > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 2:45 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Mezzanine/ ESFR > > Forget the ESFR's. Just sprinkler the mezzanine. > > Ron Fletcher > Aero Automatic > Phoenix, AZ > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jimmy > Waite > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 12:25 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Mezzanine/ ESFR > > Hello all again, > > > > Apparently the thing to do out west is to add mezzanines years after the > original building is built, and then sprinkle them after you get > caught/get in trouble. We have a job that is a warehouse designed with > and ESFR system. The owner has since come in and built a mezzanine. > The mezzanine is roughly 67' by 33.5' and is about 9'-10 tall. The > mezzanine is located on an exterior wall, and the warehouse is 30' tall > at the peak. There is no separation around the exterior of the > mezzanine. > > > > Now that I have explained the space, let me explain the scenario. The > space under the mezzanine is used to pull orders. They keep the > merchandise in plastic totes while it is under the mezzanine. So all > the storage is transient. The totes sit in a flow through racks, to > hold orders before they go to a truck, that doesn't store above 5'. > > > > Now to my question. Now the standard seems to be pretty clear, that > since there is no separation, the '07 in sections 11.1.2 (1) and 12.3 > (1) say that since there is no separation the hazard needs to be carried > 15'-0 beyond the hazard perimeter. Do these sections apply to both > above and below the mezzanine? Would I have to carry the ESFR design > criteria 15' into the mezzanine floor area? This seems a bit much > considering the space would normally be misc. storage in the'07. But I > also can see the justification to increase the design criteria since the > mezzanine is surrounded on three sides by storage. > > > > If ESFR is required I know I'll have several problems. I won't have the > clearance needed between the deflector and storage. Also, the mezzanine > is non-combustible Obstructed construction. Would there be any other > design criteria I could use, other than ESFR? > > > > I've never done an ESFR system before and definitely need the help. I > have pictures that could clarify what I'm talking about if anyone would > like them that I willing to give some suggestions. > > > > > > Jimmy Waite > > Burtell Fire Protection, Inc. > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > (406) 652-7697 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
