Why is it lacking? If they gave you the area/density sounds like you have
all you need. While the rest you indicate would be nice and the AHJ will
probably require at some point isn't this the engineering firms problem?
I'd send my plans in with the density and attach the engineers "design
documents". I'd refer any questions regarding the density or use to the
engineer. Even if the engineering firm came up with the wrong area/density
that isn't your problem is it? I agree you might want to cross reference to
help the owner with a big problem later. If you are just bidding qualify
you don't know, don't have the information and are relying on the engineer.
I'm assuming you are the sprinkler contractor only. As a contractor give me
the area/density and that's all I need? 0.576263/3289.8975 fine, I can
design around that. It doesn't make a difference to me where it came from.
If they tell you the commodity is Class 0 stored 3' high you still design to
the given density. Don't be the defacto engineer if you don't have too. We
contractors hold the hand of engineers to often. Seems to me the
appropriate (or perhaps inappropriate but irrelevant) protection scheme has
already been decided.
Dude, I'd be in heaven if any specifying engineer around here could come up
with an area/density. Of course the one exception is forumite Scott Futrell
but he doesn't do much specifying that I am aware of. I assume it costs too
much to do it right.
Chris Cahill, P.E.
Fire Protection Engineer
Sentry Fire Protection, Inc.
763-658-4483
763-658-4921 fax
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mail: P.O. Box 69
Waverly, MN 55390
Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW
Waverly, MN 55390
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray Vance
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 11:58 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Pesticides Storage
Thanks Todd.
I have already gone down that path and the client is in the process of
getting the MSDS sheets for us.
We have been given a set of "design documents" from an engineering firm
indicating an area/density requirement, but no information was given as to
the storage height, storage arrangement, commodity classification, building
height, clearances, container types or sizes, etc. so an informed decision
can be made relating to the appropriate protection scheme.
Fortunately, the containment requirements of NFPA 434 have been addressed,
but the fire protection portion is definitely lacking in sufficient detail
to determine an adequate direction.
Ray Vance - SET
Chief Sales Designer
Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers, Inc.
www.waynefire.com
(407) 877-5563 office
(321) 436-2184 cell
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd Williams
- FPDC
Sent: 2008-10-16 11:39
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Pesticides Storage
Ray, Get MSDS's on the stuff and see exactly what you are dealing with.
At 11:29 AM 10/16/2008, you wrote:
>Esteemed Collegues:
>
>Can anyone give guidance on a Pesticides Storage warehouse and the
>approriate fire protection requirements?
>NFPA-434 doesn't give prescriptove requiremetns or a definitive path to
>follow. It only indicates a risk analysis be done by a "competent
>individual" (I read PE or FPE) to determine the extent and type of fire
>protection to be provide.
>
>Without regard to storage arrangement and heights, what TYPE of
>commodity would be appropriate to consider, since the amount stored is
>over 10,000 lbs and is extermely varied in the types and configurations
>of products to be stored?
>I am leaning towards NFPA-30 "Flammable and Combustible Liquids" to
>begin my analysis, but would like the opinions of anyone who has had
>experience with this process.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Ray Vance -SET
>Chief Sales Designer
>Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers, Inc.
>www.waynefire.com<blocked::blocked::http://www.waynefire.com/>
>(407) 877-5563 office
>(321) 436-2184 cell
>
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Todd G. Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, Connecticut
www.fpdc.com
860.535.2080
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