If the engineer provides the density/area, then he/she needs to provide the information used to determine that density/area. A good AHJ shouldn't approve plans without it, even if they're capable of recreating it themselves.
I'd also like to point out section 24.6 of the 2007 edition. The contractor is responsible for providing the info sign and the info has to come from somebody. Unless the engineer pulled the density/area out his backside, then he's already done the legwork. Ed Kramer Littleton, CO > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:sprinklerforum- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Cahill > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 11:50 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Pesticides Storage > > Why is it lacking? If they gave you the area/density sounds like you > have > all you need. While the rest you indicate would be nice and the AHJ > will > probably require at some point isn't this the engineering firms problem? > I'd send my plans in with the density and attach the engineers "design > documents". I'd refer any questions regarding the density or use to the > engineer. Even if the engineering firm came up with the wrong > area/density > that isn't your problem is it? I agree you might want to cross > reference to > help the owner with a big problem later. If you are just bidding > qualify > you don't know, don't have the information and are relying on the > engineer. > > > I'm assuming you are the sprinkler contractor only. As a contractor > give me > the area/density and that's all I need? 0.576263/3289.8975 fine, I can > design around that. It doesn't make a difference to me where it came > from. > If they tell you the commodity is Class 0 stored 3' high you still > design to > the given density. Don't be the defacto engineer if you don't have too. > We > contractors hold the hand of engineers to often. Seems to me the > appropriate (or perhaps inappropriate but irrelevant) protection scheme > has > already been decided. > > Dude, I'd be in heaven if any specifying engineer around here could come > up > with an area/density. Of course the one exception is forumite Scott > Futrell > but he doesn't do much specifying that I am aware of. I assume it costs > too > much to do it right. > > Chris Cahill, P.E. > Fire Protection Engineer > Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. > > 763-658-4483 > 763-658-4921 fax > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Mail: P.O. Box 69 > Waverly, MN 55390 > > Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW > Waverly, MN 55390 > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray Vance > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 11:58 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Pesticides Storage > > Thanks Todd. > > I have already gone down that path and the client is in the process of > getting the MSDS sheets for us. > We have been given a set of "design documents" from an engineering firm > indicating an area/density requirement, but no information was given as > to > the storage height, storage arrangement, commodity classification, > building > height, clearances, container types or sizes, etc. so an informed > decision > can be made relating to the appropriate protection scheme. > > Fortunately, the containment requirements of NFPA 434 have been > addressed, > but the fire protection portion is definitely lacking in sufficient > detail > to determine an adequate direction. > > Ray Vance - SET > Chief Sales Designer > Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers, Inc. > www.waynefire.com > (407) 877-5563 office > (321) 436-2184 cell > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd > Williams > - FPDC > Sent: 2008-10-16 11:39 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Pesticides Storage > > Ray, Get MSDS's on the stuff and see exactly what you are dealing with. > > > > At 11:29 AM 10/16/2008, you wrote: > >Esteemed Collegues: > > > >Can anyone give guidance on a Pesticides Storage warehouse and the > >approriate fire protection requirements? > >NFPA-434 doesn't give prescriptove requiremetns or a definitive path to > >follow. It only indicates a risk analysis be done by a "competent > >individual" (I read PE or FPE) to determine the extent and type of fire > >protection to be provide. > > > >Without regard to storage arrangement and heights, what TYPE of > >commodity would be appropriate to consider, since the amount stored is > >over 10,000 lbs and is extermely varied in the types and configurations > >of products to be stored? > >I am leaning towards NFPA-30 "Flammable and Combustible Liquids" to > >begin my analysis, but would like the opinions of anyone who has had > >experience with this process. > > > >Thanks in advance, > > > >Ray Vance -SET > >Chief Sales Designer > >Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers, Inc. > >www.waynefire.com<blocked::blocked::http://www.waynefire.com/> > >(407) 877-5563 office > >(321) 436-2184 cell > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Sprinklerforum mailing list > >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >To Unsubscribe, send an email > >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > Todd G. Williams, PE > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > Stonington, Connecticut > www.fpdc.com > 860.535.2080 > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
