Thank you all. I was thinking most demand only (fire flow requirement) and mop-up with the leftovers. Now I'm much more comfortable with that.
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 2:16 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > 11.1.5.1 An allowance for inside and outside hose shall not be required where > tanks supply > sprinklers only. > > COMMENTARY: > With regard to 11.1.5.1, where tanks supply sprinklers only, the hose stream > requirements > need not be added when sizing the tank. For example, if the tank supplies a > system that is > required to be equipped with small hose stations, the demand of the hose > stations needs to > be included when sizing the tank. For related commentary when sizing pumps, > see 11.1.5.3. > > > 11.1.5.4 Water allowance for outside hose shall be added to the sprinkler > requirement at the > connection to the city main or a yard hydrant, whichever is closer to the > system riser. > > COMMENTARY: > With regard to 11.1.5.4, if no inside hose connections are provided, the > outside hose requirement > is the value in the third column from the left, Total Combined Inside and > Outside Hose, > in Table 11.2.3.1.2. This relatively small quantity of water is apportioned > to the fire department > to allow for final and complete extinguishment of the fire. The flow rate > established in Table > 11.2.3.1.2 can be added to the hydraulic calculations at the connection to > the city water main > or yard hydrant at the prevailing system pressure. The outside hose stream > water typically > receives its pressure from the fire department apparatus. > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection Specialist > Mechanical Department > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > [email protected] > http://www.ch2m.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gregg Fontes > Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 5:10 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Fire Flow > > NFPA 13 2002 Edition 11.2.3.1.3; "An allowance for inside and outside hose > shall not be required where the tanks supply sprinklers only." Since the > tank supplies both site fire hydrant and fire sprinklers, it needs to > accommodate both the site and sprinklers. The questions I think needs to be > asked is for the site allowance, do you use the 1500 gpm (which is my guess) > or the 250 gpm hose allowance? > > Thanks, > Gregg Fontes > Cen-Cal Fire Systems, Inc. > (209)334-9119 > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman > Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 1:33 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Fire Flow > > Far. And yes the fire flow accommodates the demand for both. I'm trying to > figure how much storage is needed. > > On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 1:30 PM, David de Vries<[email protected]> > wrote: >> I don't have a quick answer, but out of curiosity, how far does the FD > need to go to get another water source? >> >> BTW, the hose allowance in the sprinkler design must surely be part of >> the > fireflow. >> >> Dave >> >> David A. de Vries, P.E., CSP >> Firetech Engineering Incorporated >> >> >> >> >> --- On Thu, 9/3/09, Ron Greenman <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> From: Ron Greenman <[email protected]> >> Subject: Fire Flow >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 2:39 PM >> >> >> When determining tank size on a property supplied only from a tank is >> the sprinkler demand added to fire flow as a cumulative fire flow or >> is it considered part of the fire flow? And if the former does the >> hose stream need to be added or is it negated by the fact that the >> tank is already supplying the hydrants? Example: 30,000 sqft fully >> sprinklered building requires a fire flow (reduced 75% then rounded up >> to the minimum) of 1500 gpm for 2 hours requiring a 180,000 gallon >> tank. The sprinkler demand is 650 gpm plus a 250 gpm hose stream for >> one hour for a total of 54,000 gallons. Is the 54K gallons included in >> whole or in part with the fire flow storage or is it added? Thanks. >> >> -- >> Ron Greenman >> Instructor >> Fire Protection Engineering >> Bates Technical College >> Tacoma, WA >> >> Member: >> SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email >> to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email >> to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering > Bates Technical College > Tacoma, WA > > Member: > SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Bates Technical College Tacoma, WA Member: SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
