11.1.5.1 An allowance for inside and outside hose shall not be required where tanks supply sprinklers only.
COMMENTARY: With regard to 11.1.5.1, where tanks supply sprinklers only, the hose stream requirements need not be added when sizing the tank. For example, if the tank supplies a system that is required to be equipped with small hose stations, the demand of the hose stations needs to be included when sizing the tank. For related commentary when sizing pumps, see 11.1.5.3. 11.1.5.4 Water allowance for outside hose shall be added to the sprinkler requirement at the connection to the city main or a yard hydrant, whichever is closer to the system riser. COMMENTARY: With regard to 11.1.5.4, if no inside hose connections are provided, the outside hose requirement is the value in the third column from the left, Total Combined Inside and Outside Hose, in Table 11.2.3.1.2. This relatively small quantity of water is apportioned to the fire department to allow for final and complete extinguishment of the fire. The flow rate established in Table 11.2.3.1.2 can be added to the hydraulic calculations at the connection to the city water main or yard hydrant at the prevailing system pressure. The outside hose stream water typically receives its pressure from the fire department apparatus. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Specialist Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [email protected] http://www.ch2m.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gregg Fontes Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 5:10 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Fire Flow NFPA 13 2002 Edition 11.2.3.1.3; "An allowance for inside and outside hose shall not be required where the tanks supply sprinklers only." Since the tank supplies both site fire hydrant and fire sprinklers, it needs to accommodate both the site and sprinklers. The questions I think needs to be asked is for the site allowance, do you use the 1500 gpm (which is my guess) or the 250 gpm hose allowance? Thanks, Gregg Fontes Cen-Cal Fire Systems, Inc. (209)334-9119 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 1:33 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Fire Flow Far. And yes the fire flow accommodates the demand for both. I'm trying to figure how much storage is needed. On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 1:30 PM, David de Vries<[email protected]> wrote: > I don't have a quick answer, but out of curiosity, how far does the FD need to go to get another water source? > > BTW, the hose allowance in the sprinkler design must surely be part of > the fireflow. > > Dave > > David A. de Vries, P.E., CSP > Firetech Engineering Incorporated > > > > > --- On Thu, 9/3/09, Ron Greenman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > From: Ron Greenman <[email protected]> > Subject: Fire Flow > To: [email protected] > Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 2:39 PM > > > When determining tank size on a property supplied only from a tank is > the sprinkler demand added to fire flow as a cumulative fire flow or > is it considered part of the fire flow? And if the former does the > hose stream need to be added or is it negated by the fact that the > tank is already supplying the hydrants? Example: 30,000 sqft fully > sprinklered building requires a fire flow (reduced 75% then rounded up > to the minimum) of 1500 gpm for 2 hours requiring a 180,000 gallon > tank. The sprinkler demand is 650 gpm plus a 250 gpm hose stream for > one hour for a total of 54,000 gallons. Is the 54K gallons included in > whole or in part with the fire flow storage or is it added? Thanks. > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering > Bates Technical College > Tacoma, WA > > Member: > SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Bates Technical College Tacoma, WA Member: SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
