But unless the person is already dead from heat prostration, unconscious from a blow to the head, partial asphyxiation or drugs and alcohol, addled by the same, or just too tired or comfortable to get up I'd think life safety was a small issue. I'm in a little room with a fire and unless I fall into one of the above categories or I've been left alone and have some physical or mental disorder that makes me non-ambulatory or requiring assistance to get around then I'll probably get up and leave as soon as I notice there's a fire. If I can't get up QR is not going to save me vis-a-vis SR. Whether the allowable temperature is 194 or not is irrelevant since ignition of combustibles from the heater already implies a failure of safety devices built into the unit. And where is this 194 maximum measured from? Is it the temperature at the sprinkler link/bulb, at the heater, the floor, the thermostat? As in my other post to this topic there are way more fundamental questions involved such as how do you apply or adapt a rule developed for a typical situation when confronted with an atypical situation. I think Marriott solutions to specific life safety issues are a good guide since they are, and have been acutely aware of the cash flow results they'd be likely to encounter if they kill their customers. Personally I'm feeling pretty good right now since the few saunas I've done, all commercial by the way so larger, and one of which did have a fire with no loss of life and no damage except the heater and a bench were lost and of course a sprinkler head was damaged beyond repair when the link fused, employed SR 286 degree heads. That Marriott considers this an appropriate application adds another point where I can say good design decision.
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Forest Wilson <[email protected]> wrote: > > From a website: > > maximum allowable sauna temperature in Canada and the United States is 194°F > (90°C). These are C.S.A. and U.L. standards set back in 1982. At that time, > it was also mandated that there must be a high-temperature limit switch > within the sauna heater. > > ---- > > Now, at 360*, in a 13D system, what is the priority: life or property > preservation? > > At 360* in a very small room the person's blood must be close to boiling. > Since the cut-off switch is a UL requirement, perhaps they have a paper on > sauna's with fire sprinklers. > > > > Forest Wilson > > Project Manager > Cherokee Fire Protection Co. > 3195 Dayton Xenia Rd Ste 900 > Dayton OH 45434 > > ph: 937-376-2333 > fx: 614-455-4324 > cell: 937-307-5647 > > > . > > > > Visit our blog: www.cherokee-fire.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > NOTICE: The information contained in this email is intended to be solely for > the use of the named individual or entity to which it is directed and may > contain information that is privileged or otherwise confidential. It is not > intended for transmission to, or receipt by, anyone other than the named > addressee (or a person authorized to deliver it to the named addressee). It > should not be copied or forwarded to any unauthorized persons. If you have > received this electronic mail transmission in error, please delete it from > your system without copying or forwarding it, and notify the sender of the > error by reply email or by calling Cherokee Fire Protection Co. at > 888-347-3079 toll free. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Thom Mc > Mahon <[email protected]> > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Sent: Sat, Sep 12, 2009 11:57 am > Subject: RE: 13D Sauna/Steam Rooms > > > > This issue came up years ago while working with Jim Bell of Marriott Corp on > ne of their assisted living facilities a 13R that I have always used the > ame logic since then, and applied it to 13D as well. (1992) At that time > arriott had about 2 fires per year in sauna's, typically caused by bottles > f body oil or towels placed over the heater. Jim's requirement was to > prinkler all sauna's using 300+ degree heads as the emergency cut out for > auna controls is typically set in the high 200'F range. We currently > nstall 360'F TYCO TY-B either 2.8K or 5.6K depending upon room size. (Yes I > now they are STD response, but as we discussed at the time, in a 8x10 room, > ny protection is better than none, and Std response Vs. QR will be a matter > f only a second or two, with the ambient already over 100'F.) 286'F heads > re ok if your emergency cut off is set lower than 236'F, which I've never > ound one that low. That's what we do and AHJ's only need to hear this logic > nce to accept it. > Steam rooms, same source at Marriott, "What can burn? Tile walls, floors and > eiling, in a basic "Mist" system." Now Marriott used steel studs > verywhere, so if your steam room is framed with wood and you have the steam > enerator in the typical under bench location, what we've done is put a head > n that space, again high temp. If the people or wet towels "s > pontaneously > ombust" in a steam room not much a sprinkler can do to save them. > I'd like to hear what others are thinking. 200'F heads will go off way too > ften, 286'F may never go off if the emergency cut out is never needed, but > know that if a 360'F head goes off, it's either a fire or mechanical > amage. > > Thom McMahon, SET > iretech, Inc. > 560 Copper Ridge Dr > .O. Box 882136 > teamboat Springs, CO 80488 > el: 970-879-7952 > ax: 970-879-7926 > > ----Original Message----- > rom: [email protected] > mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob Knight > ent: Friday, September 11, 2009 4:33 PM > o: [email protected] > ubject: 13D Sauna/Steam Rooms > I am working on a 13D that has a sauna and steam room. What temp sprinklers > hould I use, and is it permissible to use QR instead of Residential? I'm > hinking that I will need high temp heads and residentials only go up to > 75F, at least the ones that I'm familiar with. > Thanks, > Bob Knight, CET > 660 Hill Rd > elba, Idaho 83641 > 208) 318-3057 > 208) 495-2057 fax > [email protected] > ww.firebyknight.com > -------------- next part -------------- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > hecked by AVG - www.avg.com > ersion: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.91/2363 - Release Date: 09/11/09 > 9:15:00 _______________________________________________ > prinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > ttp://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > P > ut the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > prinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > ttp://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Bates Technical College Tacoma, WA Member: SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, WSAFM _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
