Yea, mentoring is one of the key components. Tough to learn when no one is telling you that you shoulda woulda coulda....
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd Williams Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 11:36 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Salary Time in this business means little. It's the quality you produce. As one of our esteemed forum members said to me once describing a designer "he said he had 21 years experience, but it was really 3 years of experience 7 times" At 11:35 AM 5/24/2010, you wrote: >Yea, I heard cries of empathy from friends of mine in Baltimore who didn't >know I was hiring a bad apple that had already been thru their orchard and >moved south to Florida. On the plus side, if someone repeats my mistake and >hires the bad apple, it won't be long before the error is obvious. >People are who they are, you're absolutely correct. Not that they can't >change, for better or for worse, or have difficult times. But most of us who >have been in the industry any length of time and get out often, know enough >others to check with and whom to trust and whom not to ask. > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >[email protected] >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 11:20 AM >To: [email protected] >Subject: RE: Salary > >George, it's not a matter of what is better. It was the overall way this >guy did business. Mention his name to any sprinkler contractor around here >and all you hear is groans of pain and sympathy. > >Craig L. Prahl, CET >Fire Protection Specialist >Mechanical Department >CH2MHILL >Lockwood Greene >1500 International Drive >Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >Direct - 864.599.4102 >Fax - 864.599.8439 >[email protected] >http://www.ch2m.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George Church >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 11:18 AM >To: [email protected] >Subject: RE: Salary > >He may have had more heads in some or all of his work and that's overdesign, >but designing and installing additional uprights vrs a lesser number of >ATTIC sprinklers doesn't necessarily result in an overdesign. > > >My understanding is that ATTIC sprinklers provide a higher level of >protection than SSU's in a similar application. I've not had anyone correct >what I heard was how the ATTICS came to life, CSC was testing CPVC feeding >pendents in a typical nursing home attic with SSU protection, and the roof >burnt off. That made em think maybe there's a better way to protect attics, >and there was. > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >[email protected] >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 10:56 AM >To: [email protected]; [email protected] >Subject: RE: Salary > >Case in point, I worked for a design house for about two months in between >jobs, we did a building where attic sprinklers would have been the best >choice, met all the design and installation criteria. This saved money on >installation, the owner of the design house said NO, that we were to use >traditional upright heads because the count was higher and the makes us more >money. So everything he did was over designed. > >Oh and BTW the term BIM, is not even close to being related to the 3-D >design that is currently done. The 3-D design models are nothing more than >construction documents. Real BIM modeling goes WAAAAAY beyond just a 3D >rendition of a building. > >Craig L. Prahl, CET >Fire Protection Specialist >Mechanical Department >CH2MHILL >Lockwood Greene >1500 International Drive >Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >Direct - 864.599.4102 >Fax - 864.599.8439 >[email protected] >http://www.ch2m.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Travis Mack, >SET >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 10:44 AM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: Salary > >It depends on what the design house is being hired for. I do much of my >work out of state, or out of the country. For those, a site survey is >impractical. For projects that use the BIM process, then we readily >incorporate into that as I draw in Autosprink which is fully 3D. For >local projects where a site survey is required, then we readily perform >those as it is included in the pricing structure. > >I don't know that pricing per head is necessarily wrong. I offer a $X >per head or $0.x / sq ft, whichever is less expensive to the client. My >regular customers know my per head costs and the sq ft cost is based on >a sliding scale that is done with an excel spreadsheet. My customers >know my price before they bid the job. So far, it seems to have worked >out well. Remember, just as in installation, the customer is paying for >a level of service that they want and/or need. > >On 5/24/2010 7:26 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > It has not been uncommon for some design houses to not even do model >coordination. They get the architectural plan and do their design based on >that alone. All coordination with other trades is done in the field. These >type places are all about production, they base fees on the number of heads >on the drawing so systems are over designed. > > > > What some companies fail to understand is that for the most part, if you >underpay someone or find someone who works cheap, it will probably cost you >more in the long run. > > > > > > > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > > Fire Protection Specialist > > Mechanical Department > > CH2MHILL > > Lockwood Greene > > 1500 International Drive > > Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > > Direct - 864.599.4102 > > Fax - 864.599.8439 > > [email protected] > > http://www.ch2m.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of tom poisal > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 10:24 PM > > To: sprinklerforum > > Subject: Salary > > > > The salary results have been tabulated from the NICET web site, for > > designers without formal training and nicet certification, vs those with, > > college degree's, and it seems that according to my Linkin frens plus > > contractors, most companies want to recruit a CET, proficient in some sort > > of CAD program be it; AutoSPRINK or SprinkCad, and pay bottom dollar for > > this person and want a capable design project manager, field survey >person, > > design technician, etc. all for under 50K a year. What is the "going" rate >? > > > > On an aside I was just told by a major designer (free lance) that they >do > > NOT site survey for ease of installation, it is coordinated via AutoCad. >Go > > figure! > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) Todd G. Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860.535.2080 www.fpdc.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
